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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Diploid]
#7786118 - 12/21/07 04:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: So what do scientists want? . A physical piece of ANYTHING AT ALL that could not possibly come from Earth.
What are the chances of there being actual evidence found, but it being in the hands of top military type scientists with a big stamp on the file folder/box that says "TOP SECRET".....? I mean for real, it would be in the best interest of the country's security not to make public any new technologies and such that "we" don't understand ourselves.... If it was to fall into the "wrong hands", who knows what could happen, but I am sure the scenarios have all been played out on some governmental geek's computer somewhere....
The best way to keep it all under wraps is to deny the claims and fill everyone with doubt.... It seems enough people make enough bad information on their own by misinterpreting already.... Makes it easy to bury the whole lot as "garbage", when there is already a foundation of garbage....
Seems like a viable solution/scenario to me.... And, I am NOT saying this is any more than a thought experiment, but we are talking about the security of the country when talking about the possibility of E.T. technology and such.... The government/military intelligence/technology and it's influence kinda~ pwns all.... And I am not saying this to be something negative, but, it is what it is.... 
"KNOWLEDGE IS POWER" 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7786248 - 12/21/07 04:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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What are the chances of there being actual evidence found, but it being in the hands of top military type scientists with a big stamp on the file folder/box that says "TOP SECRET".....?
In EVERY country in the world? Including those that currently can't even keep track of their nuclear material? Including those that would LOVE the attention and exposure revealing such a thing would bring them? And somehow not a single hick farmer anywhere on the surface of the Earth who found a crashed ship before the military got to it ever took a piece of it to a TV or newspaper reporter?
I don't think so.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ego Death]
#7786356 - 12/21/07 05:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Physical evidence..
You're not understanding what I (and most people) mean by the phrase "Physical Evidence".
Physical evidence is a thing I can hold in my hand and put under a microscope and pass through a chromatograph to find molecules that are beyond human technology or biological material that is not from Earth.
Lemme see if I can make it crystal clear. Here are some examples that ARE physical evidence and that would IMMEDIATELY convince me and many other mainstream scientists:
1. A bacteria with DNA (or whatever ET uses) that does not match life on Earth
2. A piece of hair that doesn't match anything living on Earth
3. A lice (does ET get lice?) or other insect or whatever that doesn't match anything living on Earth
4. A bit of saliva that doesn't match anything living on Earth
5. A bit of cloth (does ET wear clothes?) that is beyond our ability to manufacture
6. A pinch of skin sluff off the floor of the ship that doesn't match anything living on Earth
7. A bit of blood (or whatever ET uses) that doesn't match anything living on Earth
8. A toe or finger nail that doesn't match anything living on Earth
9. A piece of metal that we cannot melt
10. Anything that emits a new type of radiation unknown to humans
11. A new isotope of any of the 100+ elements that humans have never seen
12. A little bit of neutronium
13. A little bit of ANYTHING that is beyond human technology
14. An explanation of how they travel faster than light. This is not physical but close enough for jazz.
There are literally millions of things that would qualify. Pictures, crop circles, stories of abduction, and everything similar is NOT physical evidence.
You guys have only had 100 years. How much longer? Is there ANY other true claim in human history that has taken this long to be proved? None that I know of.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Diploid]
#7786852 - 12/21/07 07:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: In EVERY country in the world? Including those that currently can't even keep track of their nuclear material? Including those that would LOVE the attention and exposure revealing such a thing would bring them? And somehow not a single hick farmer anywhere on the surface of the Earth who found a crashed ship before the military got to it ever took a piece of it to a TV or newspaper reporter?
See, now you have gone and turned it into what I would think would be something of a rare occurrence (*if at all*) into every country having a crash site....? Just how many E.T. crash sites do you think are here....!? 
There would be a two out of three chance that an E.T. crash site would be in the ocean.... If one happened on land, I would think "we" would swiftly quarantine everything near the site, people and all.... Farmer Buck would be in lock-down mode for the safety/security of people/life on this planet....
We don't have to own other countries to make use of the highly sophisticated monitoring satellites in orbit around the planet looking for first signs of war.... Most other countries are occupied by our intelligence either way.... 
Quote:
Diploid said: I don't think so.
Same here, but neither of us "knows so"....  My mind fills in the blanks with possibilities, knowing all of which have a super-duper-ultra-low-next-to-nothing probability of being actual.... But then, I have never had an experience with anything E.T.ish - that I know of....
I can't fight either side and be serious, but that doesn't mean that my scenario wouldn't be valid if there was or is to be such an occurrence....
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7786978 - 12/21/07 08:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just how many E.T. crash sites do you think are here....!?
A lot, judging by the testimony of True Believers. But even if there are only two, is it likely that both crashed on US soil?
swiftly quarantine everything near the site
Not if it crashed in Hoe-dunk, Nowhere. Locals are going to get to it before the quarantine people, satellite detection or not.
And if it crashes on South Beach, I'll be taking some of it home before the quarantine gets here.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7787103 - 12/21/07 08:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
What are the chances of there being actual evidence found, but it being in the hands of top military type scientists with a big stamp on the file folder/box that says "TOP SECRET".....?
I have covered this before. The alleged Roswell incident had scraps of debris covering over a square mile of desert landscape. What are the odds of not one soldier squirelling away a tiny piece of alien foil or a scrap or two being overlooked? *coughs* Near zero.
On the same note, I cannot see how a space-faring ship that could survive enormous amounts of radiation, atmospheric deceleration, micrometeors etc., would explode when hit by lightning. My plausibilometer needle pegs on that scenario.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Didn't mean to be redundant, Dip. Did not read your replies when I posted this. Seems we think alike...
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
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Well, static electricity is not exclusive to the Earth, so I think it would be more plausible to a re-entry problem, or a malfunction.... And I only give those examples in my thought experiment because they have happened in our own space missions....
As for the alleged Roswell debris, I agree, the odds are low, but low doesn't mean "0" chances.... Probability says that there is close to zero chance for life in the universe, yet here we are in all our glory - temporarily beating the odds.... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7787159 - 12/21/07 09:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Probability says that there is close to zero chance for life in the universe
Sorry, probability says nothing of the kind. After the fact of any occurrences the chance is always 1:1 or 100%. Can't get better odds than that.
If I shuffle a deck of cards and deal you any random hand, the odds of that hand occurring BEFORE being dealt is 52 factorial (52 * 51 * 50 * ... 3 * 2 * 1) which is far more than the number of estimated stars in the universe. After being dealt the odds are *TADA* 1:1.
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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (12/21/07 11:00 PM)
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
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How can the odds be 1:1 when there wasn't always life on this planet....? And knowing (at least *almost* knowing) that some day there will also not be life on this planet....?
(or did I just totally miss your explanation?)
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
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OK, I think got it now..... 
Sssooo, the odds of there being life in the universe BEFORE there was life on this planet was near to being zero - or would the odds be absolute zero, since life is a prerequisite of there being odds in the first place....?
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Diploid]
#7787495 - 12/21/07 10:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Physical evidence..
You're not understanding what I (and most people) mean by the phrase "Physical Evidence".
Physical evidence is a thing I can hold in my hand and put under a microscope and pass through a chromatograph to find molecules that are beyond human technology or biological material that is not from Earth.
Lemme see if I can make it crystal clear. Here are some examples that ARE physical evidence and that would IMMEDIATELY convince me and many other mainstream scientists:
1. A bacteria with DNA (or whatever ET uses) that does not match life on Earth
2. A piece of hair that doesn't match anything living on Earth
3. A lice (does ET get lice?) or other insect or whatever that doesn't match anything living on Earth
4. A bit of saliva that doesn't match anything living on Earth
5. A bit of cloth (does ET wear clothes?) that is beyond our ability to manufacture
6. A pinch of skin sluff off the floor of the ship that doesn't match anything living on Earth
7. A bit of blood (or whatever ET uses) that doesn't match anything living on Earth
8. A toe or finger nail that doesn't match anything living on Earth
9. A piece of metal that we cannot melt
10. Anything that emits a new type of radiation unknown to humans
11. A new isotope of any of the 100+ elements that humans have never seen
12. A little bit of neutronium
13. A little bit of ANYTHING that is beyond human technology
14. An explanation of how they travel faster than light, not physical but good enough for jazz.
There are literally millions of things that would qualify. Pictures, crop circles, stories of abduction, and everything similar is NOT physical evidence.
You guys have only had 100 years. How much longer? Is there ANY other true claim in human history that has taken this long to be proved? None that I know of.
There are explanations of faster than light travel. Look into it..
Also, of all the examples of biological evidcence you speak of, how do you expect any mainstream scientist to get their hands on any of it? Saliva? How the fuck are you going to find ET saliva?
There has been alot of physical evidence. This evidence ofcourse would have to be in the hands of high ranking military scientists and the like. What are the chances that a scientist that is passionate about UFO phenomena is going to get his hands on any of that stuff?
Say a UFO crashed in the field of middle of bum-fuck idaho, and joe-blow stumbles upon it? Who's the first person they are going to contactm besides maybe a couple friends and family? That leads to the possession and monitoring by whom? His scientist buddy that just happens to study biology? No, those who control what is spoken about in the mainstream, are the same ones that are going to control what is done with the crashed UFO.
You speak as if though saucers are crashing all over the place, it doesn't work like that. You don't have planes crashing everyday, so how do you expect airborn craft that is tens if not thousands or millions years more advance, crashing all over the planet?
I have met people that have devoted their lives to the UFO phenomem because of the sightings/experiences they have had. This includes day time sightings aswell, and IN YOUR FACE, not to mention mutiple witnesses during those sightings. This is deep shit and it's not hard to tell that none of you skeptics have ever had any sort of close encounter. The whole agenda has UNFATHOMABLY DEEP IMPLICATIONS. But the more you actually look into it, you find they aren't really unfathomable. Infact, if you use logic when considering what the universe is, what we are, and what we are doing... fuk man.. it's not rocket science.
And you also assume that the U.S. government is the only one that is sensitive to ET information. Come on now..
Why are numerous high ranking officials going on Larry King live and speaking of UFOs? Why do you have some tired old fat guy who has certain credentials then trying to explain to them that it was just weather anomalies? What's all this shit about?
If you don't accept their existance, then you must assume that the UFO phenomena is man-made by elites to further coax the masses into following their agenda for world domination?
What DO you make of all this?
People speak as if though all the secrets out there are easily available for all to find.
Can you tell me what people secretly talk about closed doors?
No. So you can't tall me that there is no secret. There IS a secret, let's keep trying to find out WHAT it might be!! Infact, people have been doing this for 100 years! And THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE SO FAR. (which I still don't understand why people still scoff such evidence off as garbage because of a few bad apples).
Do the skeptics truly believe the thousands of abduction reports are all based on fiction or a few short circuits in the brain?
If a person told you your partner was cheating on you, yet you refused to believe it because of how many "I love yous" are said, would you wait for a private investigator to bring you back a sample of sperm from her vagina that was not yours?
Ego-Death has sourced many things to look at. Considering the implications of what it could all mean is what counts! You don't have to be convinced.
As one whistle-blower said "Absence of evidence, does NOT mean evidence of absence!"
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7787501 - 12/21/07 10:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You haven't been reading this thread.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
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Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7787524 - 12/21/07 11:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ginseng1 said: Also, of all the examples of biological evidcence you speak of, how do you expect any mainstream scientist to get their hands on any of it? Saliva? How the fuck are you going to find ET saliva?
The formal CSI way is to use a Q-tip, but a used: cigarette, drinking glass, or eating utensil - will do in a pinch.... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Diploid]
#7787542 - 12/21/07 11:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Look Dipster, what you fail to grasp is that there is overwhelming evidence, it is just kept out of our hands so as not to terrify us. If there was no Top Secret conspiracy, we would be flooded with all the proof you need, but the fact that there is no proof confirms the conspiracy and thus, the reality of ET visitation.
Comprende amigo?
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Diploid]
#7787554 - 12/21/07 11:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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True. The point is that you guys will never have your point of views changed unless you get abducted yourselves or have an alien in a zoo.
Ego-Death is well versed in this matter, and he has addressed your skeptic remarks. Yet you seem to take nothing from it, or address the sources yourselves and disected them in any way.
have a look at the visible universe.
http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/universe.html
What can you make of this? I like to think of it this way.
- estimated 14 billion yrs old. - 14 billion light years across.. and this is only the light that has reached us so far. It may yet be unimaginably bigger. -Everything is a multiple. EVERYTHING. (fact) -Life comes in multiples. (fact.. look at earth) -Life takes on various different shapes and forms and can thrive in completely different temperments (fact) -Life evolves of itself. It manipulates its surroundings (fact) -Intelligent life exists in this universe (fact) -Advanced technology exists in this universe (fact) -Technology evolves (fact) -Humans an estimated 10,000 years in existance.
Think about it.
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7787557 - 12/21/07 11:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sssooo, the odds of there being life in the universe BEFORE there was life on this planet was near to being zero
I would have to see your calculations to give feedback as you have failed to state upon which you base the probability.
And yes - you got it. The fact that we are here contemplating the probability says there must be a 100% chance of life occurring.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
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Resistance is futile..... 
(in response to your "Comprende amigo" post)
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe



Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 3,310
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7787577 - 12/21/07 11:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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What interesting, is that thanks to this whole dicussion, my original question has been aswered!
-------------------- Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: Whats wrong with the P+S heads? [Re: Ginseng1]
#7787612 - 12/21/07 11:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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And the reason no UFO nuts are able to get advanced degrees in science or debate logically is confirmed.
Everybody wins!
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