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OfflineGnosticWarrior
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: SirTokesALittle]
    #6679400 - 03/17/07 06:37 AM (17 years, 6 days ago)

SirTokesALittle said:
Quote:

GnosticWarrior said:
our soul is the one constant that existed in all life times.

SAYS WHO?





You believe in reincarnation right? reincarnation of the soul.  After each death your body decays but you soul continues to exist.  Say's Who, well my mainsources would be Gary Zukav his book "Seat of the Soul" and Sylvia Browne, she has too many books.

Quote:

If I live tomorrow today, and I dream the past the present and the future, how then am I not connected to something real, beyond the levels of scientifically accepted theories? the thoughts are powerful ways to make or break a point.. what is more powerful, time or our thoughts, does God exist in or out of time?




God exist in and out of time.  His existence is constant.  God was not created and just is.  He exist whether you observe him or not.  From the individuals perspective, time equals your observations.  When your observations end, time ends.  Time seems infinite when compling the documented observations of other before you. 

You cannot live tommorow today.  You have not observed it yet.  What is real is what you observe.  I guess time is more powerful than thoughts.  They say to think is to create and the power of thought, and while it does influence your observations there are some aspects of your observations that are beyond your control (thoughts).  ie. I think I can fly so a jump off the roof of a building and then I observe myself falling to my death.  My thoughts cannot make me fly.  What my thoughts can do though is percieve falling as a positive or negative experience.

I don't care if you agree with me or not on this one.  But I want to thank you for your questions.  From my observation, I improved my understanding of time, observation, thoughts, and reality and how they are related. :smile:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: GnosticWarrior]
    #6679434 - 03/17/07 07:39 AM (17 years, 6 days ago)

if I try to understand that which I cannot see, I feel like a blob of peanut butter floating in nothingness and I'm scared that it's right.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleSirTokesALittle
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: GnosticWarrior]
    #6682207 - 03/18/07 12:12 AM (17 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

GnosticWarrior said:

You believe in reincarnation right? reincarnation of the soul.


It is real to me, what is real to me is sometimes real to the world. And what is real to the world is not always real to me. It's a complicated stance to take sides where then is no ground for a fence.






  After each death your body decays but you soul continues to exist.  Say's Who, well my main sources would be Gary Zukav his book "Seat of the Soul" and Sylvia Browne, she has too many books.


Who?
why do you need a source to tell you these things exist? if you didn't feel like it was true to start? The concept of what in our dreams and memories comes from the past life is a cross stare into the fine line we can't quite draw to conclusions yet... why would you disallusion yourself to this " false reality" one not accepted mainstream?



  From the individuals perspective, time equals your observations.  When your observations end, time ends.  Time seems infinite when compiling the documented observations of other before you. 

ROGER THAT


You cannot live tomorrow today.


BS!




What is real is what you observe.


SO what if we observe tomorrow in a dream and it is real upon wakening, and then when the day progresses the SAME event takes place, making it real before and happened AND when it was happening? This is undeniable truth and exists within the bounds of our minds( at least my mind).


I guess time is more powerful than thoughts.

False, we control time, not vice versa

They say to think is to create and the power of thought, and while it does influence your observations there are some aspects of your observations that are beyond your control (thoughts).

My thoughts are in my control, the effects of the world can only influence them, not create them. my thoughts are mine alone.


time, observation, thoughts, and reality and how they are related. :smile:

10-4








--------------------
Unlike many herbs, mint likes it moist.

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OfflineAnastrophy
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: SirTokesALittle]
    #6682329 - 03/18/07 12:47 AM (17 years, 5 days ago)

Time is a faulty concept, and nothing more than a concept.
Nothing can be factual, real, unless it can be physically tested in a laboratory.
Time is our collaborative agreeance on a concept required to measure all other things in the physical realm that we are directly and indirectly affected by.
The problem with time is that it varies, yet the universe is on it's own set variable with ours included, yet our representation of the variable, time, is a concrete one that doesnt accommodate for the rest of the universe. Time exists no further than the human mind. There are 60 seconds to every minute and 60 minutes to every hour, etc. Your life is just the blink of an eye on the universal time scale. Problem is, we don't have the comprehension to make a measurement that is accurate and concrete with the concept of the chaos of the entirety of the universe.

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OfflineGnosticWarrior
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: SirTokesALittle]
    #6682704 - 03/18/07 07:25 AM (17 years, 5 days ago)

SirTokesALittle said:
Quote:

GnosticWarrior said:

After each death your body decays but you soul continues to exist. Say's Who, well my main sources would be Gary Zukav his book "Seat of the Soul" and Sylvia Browne, she has too many books.


Who?
why do you need a source to tell you these things exist? if you didn't feel like it was true to start? The concept of what in our dreams and memories comes from the past life is a cross stare into the fine line we can't quite draw to conclusions yet... why would you disallusion yourself to this " false reality" one not accepted mainstream?






No one can no all the answers to every question posed. However, maybe one can try and develop the ability to recognize the right person who would know the answer. I believe everyone has talents to potentially make them an expert in a particular field if they choose. This makes us interdependent on one another. If we were competeing for points, I would have to concede that I am aware that in regard to this time issue, you have a deeper understanding than me.

Quote:


You cannot live tomorrow today.


BS!




What is real is what you observe.


SO what if we observe tomorrow in a dream and it is real upon wakening, and then when the day progresses the SAME event takes place, making it real before and happened AND when it was happening? This is undeniable truth and exists within the bounds of our minds( at least my mind).







Twisting my mind on this one. I understand that this is the kind of shit that they show on the TV show the Medium, right? Okay now I can understand why its possible to live tomorrow today. But could you then answer me this? What was dreamt and what occured later in the day never matches up 100% detail for detail right? I believe that it is really not important that it matches up 100%. What is important to me is that what was dreamt and what had occured made you respond or "feel" the same way?

Quote:


I guess time is more powerful than thoughts.

False, we control time, not vice versa

They say to think is to create and the power of thought, and while it does influence your observations there are some aspects of your observations that are beyond your control (thoughts).

My thoughts are in my control, the effects of the world can only influence them, not create them. my thoughts are mine alone.





yeah, I see that now. That's what meditation is all about.






Quote:

IMO, There is no future except our expectations in the here and now, there is no past except our memories taking place now. In essence neither of the places truly exist.
For what truly exists and how can we prove it? What exists is here, now, and nothing else. The moments gone..

And if what we see in our dreams and while induced is NOT REAL, than what is it? Surely there is personal reality and it's just as real... right? Wrong. I bet it's a bit of both.




The past and the future are only real to your personal reality, for only the individual observes a beginning and an end. Every individual (droplet of water-conscious) reality is made up of a physical reality, a mental reality, and a spiritual reality. All individual realities create a collective (vast ocean-unconscious)reality. These two realities exist at the same time.

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OfflineGomp
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: Anastrophy]
    #6683253 - 03/18/07 11:39 AM (17 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Anastrophy said:
Time is a faulty concept, and nothing more than a concept.
Nothing can be factual, real, unless it can be physically tested in a laboratory.
Time is our collaborative agreeance on a concept required to measure all other things in the physical realm that we are directly and indirectly affected by.
The problem with time is that it varies, yet the universe is on it's own set variable with ours included, yet our representation of the variable, time, is a concrete one that doesnt accommodate for the rest of the universe. Time exists no further than the human mind. There are 60 seconds to every minute and 60 minutes to every hour, etc. Your life is just the blink of an eye on the universal time scale. Problem is, we don't have the comprehension to make a measurement that is accurate and concrete with the concept of the chaos of the entirety of the universe.




Are you; ... physically tested in a laboratory?

:confused::thumbup:

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OfflineAnastrophy
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: SirTokesALittle]
    #6685038 - 03/18/07 08:17 PM (17 years, 5 days ago)

I love how you try to compare a physical being to a completely different aspect, the concept of time.

Yes, i was tested in a laboratory. All of us were physically. It's called anatomy. Many dark things have happened for us to have the knowledge on medicine that we do. Again, this isn't what time is so this is where my post ends. Stay topic related.

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OfflineGypsyFlowerChild
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: SirTokesALittle]
    #6685190 - 03/18/07 09:01 PM (17 years, 5 days ago)

Time in my opinion does not exist, I too believe we only live in the here and now. The past is only the road we took to get us to our current reality. The future is only a dream and a destination. I see a lot of people believing in 'destiny', if you ask me we live our destiny every moment. Destiny is a fate we are meant to reach, and only we decide where it goes. I believe every action we took in the past determined the destiny we are living now. Likewise every action we take now, determines where we will be in the future. But truly all that is existent is now. In my life I try to keep good karma, so the journey ahead will hopefully be a good trip. If i see I'm slipping, and doing something that has bad vibes, I try to change it. It's like Timothy Leary said "You can always pick up your needle and move to another groove", another good quote of his that goes along with the is "You're only as young as the last time you changed your mind".


--------------------
Listen to the trees and they will tell you the gypsy's story...

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OfflineFiblessop
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: GypsyFlowerChild]
    #6685737 - 03/19/07 12:04 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

we'll if time has know beginning and know end then there cannot be a forward or a backwards a middle or anything in between. so it seems that the future and past and present are all conjoined, because past would imply Back which does not exist in the fourth dimension.

feel free to criticize everything i say these are just thoughts straight from my head to the keyboard so they probably need refining, so help me out and criticize anything and everything you feel is wrong.

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OfflineGnosticWarrior
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: Anastrophy]
    #6686092 - 03/19/07 02:41 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Anastrophy said:
The problem with time is that it varies, yet the universe is on it's own set variable with ours included, yet our representation of the variable, time, is a concrete one that doesnt accommodate for the rest of the universe.

Time exists no further than the human mind. Problem is, we don't have the comprehension to make a measurement that is accurate and concrete with the concept of the chaos of the entirety of the universe.




Everything in essence is energy. Every, entity may be moving on a particular rate of change. This rate of change maybe fixed or varied. From the universal perspective, there is no time. For the individual Time is the observance of change. Actually when you use seconds, minutes, hours, days, etc. you have adopted another individual's or group's concept or measurement of change, therefore its limited. Might be best to develop your own?

Maybe the concept of chaos is flawed. To the ignorant chaos is a reality. To the knowledgeable chaos does not exist. I'm reading a book right now called "Fortune's Formula" I'm not done yet, but these scientific guys proved that randomness does not exists. They proved this by developing a system to beat Casino's, merely becasue they acquired a deeper understanding of games the Casino's play.

The scientific mind can be a great asset to man in discovering the truth, but it can also be his biggest hinderance. Discover this in yourself and you'll move a step closer to the truth. It does not matter what anyone else says. No one else can give you the answers to the most important problems effecting your life. This stands true for everyone.

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Invisibletoastdth
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: GnosticWarrior]
    #6686117 - 03/19/07 03:00 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

General relativity relies on time being a physical construct to work. Indeed, we conduct experiments with time itself; I do not think it is wise to pass it off merely as a human concept.

There are two kinds of time recognized by physics - time, and perfect time. Perfect time is what you experience; how much time has passed, what you clock measures. Time is something beyond that, a direction we move in. By varying the speed relative to other objects, we change our speed moving through time. But in order for the laws of physics to apply from all reference frames, we cannot measure time, only perfect time relative to each reference frame. The Lorentz transform and the "cone of light" explanation delves into why this is important. It all has to do with speed of light; Light moves the same speed no matter who you are. If you move away from me at the speed of light, and I shine a flashlight at you, you will experience the light pass you at - you may have guessed it - the speed of light, even though you are moving away from me already at the speed of light. This has to do with how space and time bend from the presence of matter. Space and time tell matter how to move; matter tells space and time how to bend. Thus, we have gravity.

A far more interesting debate than anything to do with time or what is real, is probability. "Time" and "Real" have largely been addressed by the physics community. Quantum physics deals with probability, and it is just as "real" as you or I. A type of ionizing radiation - alpha decay - is a quantum mechanical product of probability. The inside of the nucleus should be like a wall. You should not see anything magically appear outside the wall without moving through or disrupting it in some way. But, there is a chance you will see a helium atom (an alpha particle) outside of the nucleus. And, though it is akin to walking through a wall, we do see it occur. Probability, in a very literal way, is real. The pure mathematics say there is a chance something will occur, though it is not obvious through logic your friend could magically appear on the other side of a wall. But occasionally, there he stands. On the other side of a wall with no door.

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OfflineGnosticWarrior
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: toastdth]
    #6689503 - 03/19/07 10:13 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

toastdth,

I was waiting for someone to do a more physics explaination on time. I did recall reading a little on the speed of light stuff. The scientist mentioned in the book that I was reading, were John Kelly Jr. and Claude Shannon. I think one of them is considered to be a pioneer in the Quantum physics field.

Sorry man, not really an interest for me and I am all timed out. Plus I only took Physics 101 in community college. Probably not much I could add or debate with you.

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Invisibletoastdth
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: GnosticWarrior]
    #6689567 - 03/19/07 10:24 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

I probably couldn't debate it very heavily, myself. I can talk about the implications and real-world effects to a pretty good degree, but I don't have the mathematical background to actually break into the equations and lay an internet beat-down on somebody.

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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: dblaney]
    #7746909 - 12/11/07 08:29 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Time is simply part of the 4 dimensions in which we humans see and live in. When we want to meet someone we give directions. The directions include the 3 spatial planes which we are all familiar with, and the forth and final one is time. Although time is a mysterious dimension, it is directly related to velocity. The faster one travels the slower time becomes (Einstein theory of relativity) and essentially if one were to travel the speed of light (which is impossible) time would cease to exist. If anyone is interested in the way in which the universe operates (which is probably many because we are all stoners) read "The Elegant Universe" By, Brian Greene

To find out what is real? Take Psychedelic drugs and talk with God about that.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Offlineextraordinary
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Re: basics: what is time and what is real? [Re: SirTokesALittle]
    #7747166 - 12/11/07 09:25 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

reality is based upon perception. percetion is your 5 senses and conscious interpretation of those 5 senses. You see more of what you think about in other words. If you think about all the bad shit going on, your gonna have more bad shit happen. thinking about all the good shit would then cause more good shit to happen. Reality is concrete but can be changed by the human mind. Saying that reality comes from the ruling classes makes me think two things: either you are sent from the ruling class to put the one's who are not aware of the knowledge you are at a higher disadvantage, or are being ruled by the ruling class and accept the opinion-based fact that reality is a set of moral laws. Moral laws are also perception, one can think it moral to kill millions of people. If you are sent from the ruling class, know that change is already coming and your way of life is not going to last much longer. If you fall prey to society, just have a strong desire for the knowledge of the absolutre truth, infinite truth, unlimited perception, unlimited knowledge; whatever works for you. Other wise you will probably continue attacking effects and not consider to take the time to think about the causes that effects come from and then attack those causes.

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