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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: xFrockx]
    #7763014 - 12/15/07 07:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

“Finally someone will pay for these [climate related] costs,” Othmar Schwank, a global tax advocate, told Inhofe EPW Press Blog following the panel discussion titled “A Global CO2 Tax.” Schwank is a consultant with the Switzerland based Mauch Consulting firm Schwank said at least “$10-$40 billion dollars per year” could be generated by the tax, and wealthy nations like the U.S. would bear the biggest burden based on the “polluters pay principle.” The U.S. and other wealthy nations need to “contribute significantly more to this global fund,” Schwank explained. He also added, “It is very essential to tax coal.”


The environmental group Friends of the Earth, in attendance in Bali, also advocated the transfer of money from rich to poor nations on Wednesday. “A climate change response must have at its heart a redistribution of wealth and resources,” said Emma Brindal, a climate justice campaigner coordinator for Friends of the Earth.
\
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/richard-newcomb/2007/12/14/global-warming-goals-revealed-will-media-report


Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream.....

The Trial Lawyers are getting ready for action. Wait till they sue Exxon, GM, and your local power provider over the weather, I mean global warming.....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleSlashOZ
:D
Male


Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7763035 - 12/15/07 07:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

my power comes from a renewable resource. in fact my state has so much of it they sell it to California. i have some of the lowest power rates in the country. yay for renewable!

tax the heck out of coal and other carbon polluters i say.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: SlashOZ]
    #7763064 - 12/15/07 08:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

YEA!

Why can’t our planet just be like it used to be????

I vote for it to be like it was 50 million years ago!!!!

(that's 18-27 degrees warmer than now.)


That would be Paradise.....cause right now its cold as fuck outside.:(


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7764668 - 12/16/07 02:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

> That would be Paradise.....cause right now its cold as fuck outside.:(

You make it sound as if we are coming out of an ice age or something?


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: xFrockx]
    #7765274 - 12/16/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Heres a list of anti=global warming organizations and who funds them. If you site from any of these, you need to think twice, or three times, I'm looking at you d33p.

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/skeptic-organizations.html





How about you read the damn scientific journal that has nothing to do with sepp which contains the report that has nothing to do with sepp. Actually, just kill yourself, I'm looking at you xfrockx.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 11 hours
Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: d33p]
    #7765313 - 12/16/07 12:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"How about you read the damn scientific journal that has nothing to do with sepp which contains the report that has nothing to do with sepp. Actually, just kill yourself, I'm looking at you xfrockx."

How about you read the damn list of authors. One of the co-authors is the founder of the SEPP. What now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Singer


Edited by xFrockx (12/16/07 12:24 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: xFrockx]
    #7765321 - 12/16/07 12:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Why not debate the points made by Singer rather than his affiliation? The latter is a poor debating tactic.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
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Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: Redstorm]
    #7765344 - 12/16/07 12:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Why bother with it when its obvious that he is full of shit? Junk science is junk science.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: xFrockx]
    #7765353 - 12/16/07 12:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Why bother with it when its obvious that he is full of shit? Junk science is junk science.




So every report on climate change published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal means nothing because they are full of shit? Wonderful.

use something dull if possible


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
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Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: d33p]
    #7765376 - 12/16/07 12:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

No, every report that was conducted by people who are quite obviously in the pockets of the oil and tobacco industry is full of shit. Do you think Exxon is going to pay to have people tell them that they are polluting the earth?


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male


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Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: xFrockx]
    #7765454 - 12/16/07 12:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Why bother with it when its obvious that he is full of shit? Junk science is junk science.




If he's so obviously full of shit, you should easily be able to pick apart his research. I'll be waiting.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: xFrockx]
    #7765458 - 12/16/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Peer-reviewed means that other scientists, including those not in the pockets of big oil, get to review the research and challenge their findings. D33p succeeded in producing something of scientific validity that challenges the mainstream scientific consensus on global warming. There are, of course, far more scientific journal articles supporting the case for man-made global warming, but since there is at least one such article which challenges that case, I can now relegate global warming skepticism to a more legitimate status than Intelligent Design.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
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Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: Silversoul]
    #7765600 - 12/16/07 01:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't even have any data to debunk, he provided a link the a blog and I can't find the journal anywhere on EBSCO or Google Scholar. I think he needs to prove it even exists first.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
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Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: xFrockx]
    #7765608 - 12/16/07 01:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
No, every report that was conducted by people who are quite obviously in the pockets of the oil and tobacco industry is full of shit. Do you think Exxon is going to pay to have people tell them that they are polluting the earth?




So I'm assuming you think that Prof. David H. Douglass, Prof. John R. Christy, Benjamin D. Pearson, Prof. S. Fred Singer, and the International Journal of Climatology of the Royal Meteorological Society are all in the pocket of the oil and tobacco industry. That is quite an accusation. You got anything to back that up?

I'll start and help you out. Fred Singer has connections to conservative groups. Ohhhhh, a conservative profestor. Don't they have laws against stuff like that? I don't suppose you think that every report whose authors include people with ties to left wing groups are also full of shit, do you?


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
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Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: d33p]
    #7765626 - 12/16/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

How about you actually link to the peer reviewed article while I find check out Mr. Singer's financial backers :wink:

To answer your other question, its not an issue of right or left wing, its an issue of an oil company and carbon emissions, it has fucking nothing to do with politics and everything to do with money.  If a "Save the Whales" group sponsored a study that showed that wales were declining and millions needed to be spent to save them, than I would consider that just as much bullshit as this one, and it doesn't matter who the fuck the people vote for.


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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
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Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: xFrockx]
    #7765642 - 12/16/07 01:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, here you go asshole:

http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Nightline.html

"ExxonMobil - Funding the Skeptics
One of the most high profile skeptics in the climate change debate, S. Fred Singer, has recently denied receiving any oil company money, and claimed that his consulting for oil companies was solely "on the subject of oil pricing, some 20 years ago."59 Yet Exxon’s own documents show that in 1998, the company gave a grant of $10,000 to the Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP), of which Singer is the founding president, and another $65,000 to the Atlas Economic Research Foundation, which promotes and supports Singer’s work.61 In addition, in the past Singer has acknowledged receiving funding from Exxon.

According to the Wall Street Journal63, ExxonMobil also funds the ultra-conservative and anti-environmentalist Frontiers of Freedom Institute, of which Singer is a staff member. Frontiers of Freedom was cited in the American Petroleum Institute (API) 1998 Global Science Communications Action Plan as a possible organization to help operationalize their anti- Kyoto strategy, to be funded by API and others in the fossil fuel industry.64

Singer has a history of public attacks on the integrity of the IPCC process.65 He has fabricated quotes from the former chair of the IPCC, Dr. Bert Bolin, in an attempt to suggest that Dr. Bolin had changed his mind about climate change.66 Singer was also the mastermind behind a Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT) project that took fifty Republican students from the United States, trained in the skeptics’ arguments, to the climate negotiations in Bonn in 2001, to demonstrate in favor of Bush’s abandonment of the Kyoto Protocol.67 CFACT was also listed in the 1998 API plan mentioned above. "

Also:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Science_and_Environmental_Policy_Project#Funding

"... S. Fred Singer, acknowledged during a 1994 appearance on the television program Nightline that he had received funding from Exxon, Shell, Unocal and ARCO. He did not deny receiving funding on a number of occasions from the Rev. Sun Myung Moon." [19]

In 2000 SEPP wrote on their web site:

"SEPP does not solicit financial support from either industry or governmental sources. Income is derived mainly from charitable foundations and private individuals. Some income is derived also from SEPP conference fees and the sale of books and reports to the public. As a non-profit educational and research 501(c) 3 organization, accepting tax-deductible contributions, SEPP is required to file an annual report with the IRS. SEPP operates on a modest budget; its officers and associated scientists do not receive salaries but contribute their services on a pro bono basis." [20] (emphasis added)

ExxonMobil donated $10,000 to SEPP both in 1998 [21] and 2000 [22]. "


Edited by xFrockx (12/16/07 01:58 PM)


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: xFrockx]
    #7765650 - 12/16/07 01:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
How about you actually link to the peer reviewed article while I find check out Mr. Singer's financial backers :wink:

To answer your other question, its not an issue of right or left wing, its an issue of an oil company and carbon emissions, it has fucking nothing to do with politics and everything to do with money.  If a "Save the Whales" group sponsored a study that showed that wales were declining and millions needed to be spent to save them, than I would consider that just as much bullshit as this one, and it doesn't matter who the fuck the people vote for.




Congrats, you're as bad at debating as you are at finding shit online.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/117857349/ABSTRACT


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: Silversoul]
    #7765653 - 12/16/07 01:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

At what point are you global warming acolytes going to realize that being a Chicken Little is a highly lucrative enterprise? Books sell, movies sell, TV shows sell, research funds are allocated, etc. But only if they spout some alarmist message. It is far greater money than the contribution Exxon gives to any group. Al Gore is lauded for lying. Skeptics are banned. Add that to the usual gang that wants to redistribute wealth (ALL of the UN, apparently) and the argument that it is all about the Benjamins and thus suspect falls rather more squarely on the heads of the alarmist. Alarmism is far more lucrative than research grants from Exxon.

I linked to one group that was denied a voice at Bali. The Weather Channel has embarrassed its founder by declaring skepticism to be the work of the devil. The only group that seems to be working to close the debate is the scare mongers, because they think they have already won the day in the court of public opinion, i.e. a jury of dupes.

There are a lot of articles challenging global warming orthodoxy. Almost every article suppporting it cites models. These models aint all that:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-12/w-nsi121107.php

Quote:

“The usual discussion is whether the climate model forecasts of Earth’s climate 100 years or so into the future are realistic,” said the lead author, Dr. David H. Douglass from the University of Rochester. “Here we have something more fundamental: Can the models accurately explain the climate from the recent past? “It seems that the answer is no.”




Why you fucking guys just believe the alarmists is beyond me. Unless you really don't give a fuck about science unless it supports your wealth redistribution schemes. Remember the effects of the do-gooder DDT killers. Millions died.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: xFrockx]
    #7765661 - 12/16/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Oh, here you go asshole:

http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Nightline.html

"ExxonMobil - Funding the Skeptics
One of the most high profile skeptics in the climate change debate, S. Fred Singer, has recently denied receiving any oil company money, and claimed that his consulting for oil companies was solely "on the subject of oil pricing, some 20 years ago."59 Yet Exxon’s own documents show that in 1998, the company gave a grant of $10,000 to the Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP), of which Singer is the founding president, and another $65,000 to the Atlas Economic Research Foundation, which promotes and supports Singer’s work.61 In addition, in the past Singer has acknowledged receiving funding from Exxon.

According to the Wall Street Journal63, ExxonMobil also funds the ultra-conservative and anti-environmentalist Frontiers of Freedom Institute, of which Singer is a staff member. Frontiers of Freedom was cited in the American Petroleum Institute (API) 1998 Global Science Communications Action Plan as a possible organization to help operationalize their anti- Kyoto strategy, to be funded by API and others in the fossil fuel industry.64

Singer has a history of public attacks on the integrity of the IPCC process.65 He has fabricated quotes from the former chair of the IPCC, Dr. Bert Bolin, in an attempt to suggest that Dr. Bolin had changed his mind about climate change.66 Singer was also the mastermind behind a Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT) project that took fifty Republican students from the United States, trained in the skeptics’ arguments, to the climate negotiations in Bonn in 2001, to demonstrate in favor of Bush’s abandonment of the Kyoto Protocol.67 CFACT was also listed in the 1998 API plan mentioned above. "




Wow, keep wasting your own time with this bullshit. The report, the journal, and the other authors have nothing to do with that.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Stop Stephen Harper from blocking UN climate talks! [Re: xFrockx]
    #7765711 - 12/16/07 02:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Oh, here you go asshole:




You need to go to your room.
Quote:



http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Nightline.html

"ExxonMobil - Funding the Skeptics
One of the most high profile skeptics in the climate change debate, S. Fred Singer, has recently denied receiving any oil company money, and claimed that his consulting for oil companies was solely "on the subject of oil pricing, some 20 years ago."59 Yet Exxon’s own documents show that in 1998, the company gave a grant of $10,000 to the Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP), of which Singer is the founding president, and another $65,000 to the Atlas Economic Research Foundation, which promotes and supports Singer’s work.61 In addition, in the past Singer has acknowledged receiving funding from Exxon.

According to the Wall Street Journal63, ExxonMobil also funds the ultra-conservative and anti-environmentalist Frontiers of Freedom Institute, of which Singer is a staff member. Frontiers of Freedom was cited in the American Petroleum Institute (API) 1998 Global Science Communications Action Plan as a possible organization to help operationalize their anti- Kyoto strategy, to be funded by API and others in the fossil fuel industry.64

Singer has a history of public attacks on the integrity of the IPCC process.65 He has fabricated quotes from the former chair of the IPCC, Dr. Bert Bolin, in an attempt to suggest that Dr. Bolin had changed his mind about climate change.66 Singer was also the mastermind behind a Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT) project that took fifty Republican students from the United States, trained in the skeptics’ arguments, to the climate negotiations in Bonn in 2001, to demonstrate in favor of Bush’s abandonment of the Kyoto Protocol.67 CFACT was also listed in the 1998 API plan mentioned above. "




Bush's abandonment? During Clinton's term the Senate unanimously rejected it even in theory. Neither Clinton nor Bush actually presented it for ratification. Bush abandoned it? Meanwhile, who has profited the most from this whole bullshit? Why, none other than the scum Al Gore. When a judge calls you out as a serial liar in a court case and you keep right on with your nonsense you have really got t3h brass ones. Meanwhile all these other scum are managing to scam millions of donations from morons who they have managed to scare with their lies. Because they are so grateful for being made "AWARE." Spare me, suckers.


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