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InvisibleRobo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows
    #7745135 - 12/11/07 01:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I've been researching out different brands of laptops over the past couple months and I've finally come down to two choices:

Choice #1: Apple Macbook Pro
Choice #2: Sony Vaio FZ series modded to the max, maybe even better than the Macbook as far as specs go, and cheaper too.

Both have the same capabilities and basic features (if I tweak out the FZ a bit), but the problem now is that I'm debating which laptop to buy based on the operating system, the only true difference between them.

I want OS X because of the great reviews and I can't run apple Logic without OS X, and OS X is the best for audio/visual production,editing,etc.

But, it's one major fault that is killing me is that it isn't compatible with shit. Many programs and applications out there available for download on the web which I use quite frequently are not even available for OS X. And, I just don't know how willing I am to drop those apps altogether and move on to try and find others that serve the same function, but for OS X.

Windows Vista, the other choice, is compatible with damn near everything! Every application out there has windows comptability as it's first choice, and not so much OS X (or linux) But, I won't get my macbook, and I definitely won't get to run Logic or any other cool OS X apps should I decide to just stick w/ boring old windows

I want to make the switch to OS X, I really do, it's just hard to when you've been a windows user for as long as you can remember and when we live in a seemingly windows dominated networld (compatibility-speaking). So all you OS X users out there, how do you/did you get around these problems?

Any advice you could give me is much appreciated.

(Make me want to make the switch, because I really want to :smile2:)


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
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Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension Flag
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: Robo]
    #7745267 - 12/11/07 02:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Vista blows... get the PC and install XP on it


--------------------


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Invisiblemachination
Stranger

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 705
Loc: Hringhorni
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: Robo]
    #7745277 - 12/11/07 02:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

all u need is a really crappy old laptop the ende


--------------------
"Have you not learned that your word is bond? Yes, my word is bond and bond is life, I shall give my life, before my word shall fail."


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InvisibleRobo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: machination]
    #7745329 - 12/11/07 02:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Me wants to make music, me needs OS X

Do any of you mac users out there find OS X to be a hassle?

Vistas that bad,huh? I'll keep that in mind.


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Invisibleslackophage
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Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 1,112
Loc: Seattleish
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: Robo]
    #7745381 - 12/11/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)



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InvisibleRobo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: slackophage]
    #7745519 - 12/11/07 03:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Problem solved I guess :smirk:


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OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male


Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: slackophage]
    #7745846 - 12/11/07 04:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

slackophage said:
Get a MacBook & run both.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/bootcamp.html




That probably is the best advice. I dont think Vista is THAT BAD but its no where near OS X


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: AaronEvil]
    #7745934 - 12/11/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

> I dont think Vista is THAT BAD but its no where near OS X

Don't get me started on OS-X's problems...  :wink:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisibleslackophage
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Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 1,112
Loc: Seattleish
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: Seuss]
    #7746029 - 12/11/07 05:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Isn't the root password still stored plaintext somwehere in /var? Or did they finally fix that?


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InvisibleRobo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: Seuss]
    #7746181 - 12/11/07 05:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Don't get me started on OS-X's problems



Please do. I like to know all I can before I make a purchase :smile2:


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: Robo]
    #7746661 - 12/11/07 07:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I had to switch to Mac at my place of employment. I don't like it at all. Simple things done in Windows seem to be much more difficult. For instance, when editing documents we often use "track changes" in MS word. All sorts of weird dialogue boxes pop up in Mac, where in Windows it's easy to navigate with simple buttons.

I need about 3 different browsers on a Mac since it always seems like I am missing some sort of plug in.

For some reason, minimizing things to (the mac's version of) the taskbar is a pain.

I can't open things in a single window in Mac. If I have two different files each in different folders about 3 subdirectories deep, to open both I end up with 6 windows open.

if you open up any type of online file on a mac, it downloads it directly to the desktop. You might think this is a neat feature, but if you are looking at a bunch of pdf's on a single site, you'll click on them and end up with 10 different files on your desktop afterwards.

Some of the function keys in Macs are cool (e.g. using F9 to display all windows at once). I have learned to enjoy the "mighty mouse" ball, but in general I find the performance and usability of macs to be quite inferior to PCs. Being forced to use a Mac has only reaffirmed my desire and appreciation of Windows.

I suppose if I sat around in my mom's basement smoking pot all day and making cute greeting cards, organizing photo's or sending videos to my friends it might be better to use a Mac, but I actually have to do work on mine.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


Edited by badchad (12/11/07 07:42 PM)


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InvisibleRobo
R Series 66Y
Registered: 05/08/07
Posts: 14,861
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: badchad]
    #7746820 - 12/11/07 08:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Try out the boot camp feature (unless that's only on OSX leopard(?)). Seems pretty cool, 2 OS's on one computer. I only want a mac for the apple music software, other than that most of my other stuff will be windows.


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OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male


Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: Seuss]
    #7747787 - 12/12/07 12:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I dont think Vista is THAT BAD but its no where near OS X

Don't get me started on OS-X's problems...  :wink:




Well the both have issues, every OS does, but Vista is no where near OSX. I dont think Vista is as bad as everyone claims it to be (based on my own use) but OSX was released in a better condition than Vista.


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


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Invisibleslackophage
Misanthropist
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Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 1,112
Loc: Seattleish
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: badchad]
    #7747871 - 12/12/07 01:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
I can't open things in a single window in Mac. If I have two different files each in different folders about 3 subdirectories deep, to open both I end up with 6 windows open.





Finder Menu -> Preferences -> General -> Uncheck Always Open Folders in a New Window

Quote:


if you open up any type of online file on a mac, it downloads it directly to the desktop. You might think this is a neat feature, but if you are looking at a bunch of pdf's on a single site, you'll click on them and end up with 10 different files on your desktop afterwards.





Safari Menu -> Preferences -> General -> Save Downloaded Files To:


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: slackophage]
    #7747999 - 12/12/07 03:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

> Isn't the root password still stored plaintext somwehere in /var? Or did they finally fix that?

Misleading at best... in unix, upon which part of OS-X is based, traditionally passwords were stored in /etc/passwd as an encrypted string of plain text. Later, because of security concerns, the unix world moved to shadow password files where the /etc/passwd file is still readable by anybody, but the encrypted password is stored in /etc/shadow and is readable only by the system. Plan9 took the additional step of creating a new system call "open once" that only allows a file to have a single handle. When the kernel boots it opens the password file and from then on no other process, not even the kernel, can reopen the file. The unix part of OS-X is based upon openbsd and uses netinfo databases for authentication. Also, by default, there is no "root password" in OS-X, the root account is "locked", unless you specifically enable it.

> Simple things done in Windows seem to be much more difficult.

It is a shift in paradigm; you have to think differently. Windows uses the right mouse button as a contextual menu based upon the object in focus. OS-X does not and instead uses drag and drop operations and action buttons. Both systems work fairly well, though I find the OS-X paradigm to be much more intuitive for non-computer users (as options typically don't change depending upon context or focus).

> can't open things in a single window in Mac.

Finder->preferences will fix this problem.

> if you open up any type of online file on a mac, it downloads it directly to the desktop

Again, a preference setting in both Safari and Firefox can change this behavior.

> but in general I find the performance and usability of macs to be quite inferior to PCs.

I suspect it is from lack of training on the Mac. The two above examples illustrate this point. Given the unix subsystem on the Mac, I find the mac's usability much greater than a windows box.

> I dont think Vista is as bad as everyone claims it to be

I spoke with one of my staff yesterday and asked him about Vista and performance. He said the cases I point out are all memory or video bound. He said to get vista to perform well, you have to have at least 2G of memory and a very high end graphics card; after that, it is equal in speed to XP.

This actually makes sense. When I was with Microsoft (summer intern), they gave us the absolute best hardware money could buy. Nobody really thought about the difference between the best hardware and the average hardware performance. A lot of slop went together because it was fast enough on the latest greatest.

> but OSX was released in a better condition than Vista.

There are a lot of things about OS-X that I don't like as well. For example, there is nothing to manage install/removal of software such as windows "add-remove programs". (Though to be fair, even windows has problems here.)


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Invisibleusg543
◕‿◕


Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 5,192
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: Seuss]
    #7748015 - 12/12/07 04:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

pretty accurate response.

omni, just buy a mac and dualboot it. get the best of both worlds.

fuck vista though.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: usg543]
    #7748096 - 12/12/07 05:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Okay, I have clearly demonstrated my complete ignorance of Macs.

Intuitively, I thought all my options to change things were located in the central "system preferences".


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: badchad]
    #7748111 - 12/12/07 06:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

> Okay, I have clearly demonstrated my complete ignorance of Macs.

*grin* Been there myself.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisibleslackophage
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Loc: Seattleish
Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: Seuss]
    #7748575 - 12/12/07 10:09 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Isn't the root password still stored plaintext somwehere in /var? Or did they finally fix that?

Misleading at best...





How can a question be misleading? I was wrong though, :imslow: was thinking about something else, though...the swap file plaintext password flaw.

http://www.oreillynet.com/onlamp/blog/2004/06/new_local_mac_os_x_vulnerabili.html

There's a workaround now, but not enabled by default.

Quote:


The unix part of OS-X is based upon openbsd



And FreeBSD, and NetBSD....give credit where it's due :yesnod:

Quote:


There are a lot of things about OS-X that I don't like as well.  For example, there is nothing to manage install/removal of software such as windows "add-remove programs".  (Though to be fair, even windows has problems here.)




Not in the traditional sense, most of it is done by dragging the application bundle to the trash and cleaning up the leftover preferences files. I like it that way, no registry to get fucked up and you can install stuff on a per-user basis by just putting it on the desktop. You can use passwordless ssh/scp to do script mass installs, etc.


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OfflineFrosty_Storm
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Re: Decisions Decisions OS X vs. Windows [Re: slackophage]
    #7748942 - 12/12/07 11:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Each OS has it's faults and strong points, but I hate macs, they are too trendy, it may just be the coding junky geek in me, but i enjoy my linux with XFCE or Fluxbox, beacuse there is no need to be "neat" the OS just needs to let you start applications and manage files.


--------------------
Shrowded in an angelic white veil of darkness
~Frosty Storm~


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