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niteowl
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Faith
#7740079 - 12/10/07 11:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Isn't faith a strange thing?
Regardless of ones "faith" you see things in accordance to your faith.
Two people can see the same event and come away with different views on it....in a spiritual sense....and they both be right.
Faith is kinda like a placebo effect...........If you believe strongly enough in something, then it is more likely to happen for you, the way you expect it to.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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future
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7740132 - 12/10/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Like when i believe i aced this exam test without a doubt almost and return to find out I got an F.
rite..
-------------------- I am the fakest person on this site. I only pretend to grow and consume illegal mushrooms. I have no knowledge what so ever on any scheduled substance because I know and respect the governing law in the United States of America. All pictures and dialogue posted by me is entirley copyrighted from those who wish to knowingly ignore the laws. I only post these messages as a mere propaganda technique used to gain attention and admiration from others. Thank You
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SoY
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7740159 - 12/10/07 11:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Faith is a abominable technique for controlling the masses. I'm not talking about someone's faith in mankind or in their children but rather faith in the religious sense. Faith asks one to disregard observations that are contrary to the specific religion, and have faith that the religion is true despite any discrepancies. Faith prohibits the use of a discerning mind and instead requires that one believes something for which there is no evidence and cannot be tested.
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   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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vigilant_mind
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7740694 - 12/10/07 01:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said: Faith is kinda like a placebo effect...........If you believe strongly enough in something, then it is more likely to happen for you, the way you expect it to.
Religious beliefs act as a mental schema through which one interprets one's world.
Most people I know attempt to force-fit certain phenomena into a mold that is congruous with their beliefs. For instance, with Christians, if something good happens, it's "God is great." If events don't occur in a way consonant with their beliefs, it's "God works in mysterious ways."
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Silversoul
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The thing is, this doesn't just apply to religious beliefs. It applies to any reality tunnel. People's reality tunnels determine which signals they'll tune into and which they'll tune out. And of those signals which get in, they'll interpret them in a way that suits their reality tunnel. There's no way to avoid this completely. The best we can do is try to have as flexible a reality tunnel as possible, and try to see things from multiple points of view.
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niteowl
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Well said SilverSoul. Our perspective has EVERYTHING to do with our beliefs/faith.
We will also, always do things, to help confirm our belief system.
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MokshaIs
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7741530 - 12/10/07 04:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Faith is funny. Do any ya'll here got somes faith in anything? Perhaps one could say I have faith in the belief....or is it awareness? both? more?..... that there is nothing to fear. Faith that All is a cosmic symphony, no note "misplaced". Faith in harmony, in resonance, in ever and always perfection beyond the crude perceptions of bogged down humanity, yet always right before us is this perfection, precise harmonic convergence... Inside something says I must transcend faith to experience the truths of these experiental interpretations. Just be it, don't believe it says something. ego? how do you guys think my faith affects my life? When one is aware of something, then speaks it/writes it, how much of it is lost in translation? What decides how much is lost?
-------------------- in all of Infinite there is but One and it is nOne ever and always in every and all ways
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Icelander
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7741786 - 12/10/07 05:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said: Isn't faith a strange thing?
Regardless of ones "faith" you see things in accordance to your faith.
Two people can see the same event and come away with different views on it....in a spiritual sense....and they both be right.
Faith is kinda like a placebo effect...........If you believe strongly enough in something, then it is more likely to happen for you, the way you expect it to.
Right, "What the thinker thinks, the prover proves".
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rose
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7743793 - 12/11/07 03:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
faith (fth) n. 1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. 2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust. 3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters. 4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will. 5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith. 6. A set of principles or beliefs. Idiom:
Some people have been telling the thread what this word means... but I wonder if they looked it up first...
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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daytripper23
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Re: Faith [Re: Rose]
#7743858 - 12/11/07 05:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea I just looked it up, realized you were all wrong and didnt post anything. Good old dictionary.
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niteowl
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I don't see where any poster in this thread has deviated from the dictionary's version of the word.
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daytripper23
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7744260 - 12/11/07 09:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was only kidding. Screw dictionaries.
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MushroomTrip
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Screw the dictionaries? 

Seriously though, there has to be a point of reference so we know what the fuck we're talking about.
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niteowl
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daytripper23
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This is true, I was kind of posting on a whim there.
It just seemed kind of futile to post a 10 word definition of faith, when the churches and religions of the world have been trying demonstrate/come to terms with this concept for thousands of years. I mean the church is basically a manifestation of faith...
I kind of imagine this liniarity of silliness in looking up definitions where on one end you have "oak tree" or "chair" moving towards words like "faith" and "justice", and then further on, you might look up the words like "life" or "existence".
But really dont mind me...
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niteowl
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: Seriously though, there has to be a point of reference so we know what the fuck we're talking about.
No point of reference needed. I was talking about the general idea of faith, nothing specific.
If you want an example then.......
Tylenol doesn't work on me, yet asprin or Ibuprofen does.
Is my faith in these other forms of medicine overpowering Tylenol's ability to give me some relief, or does Tylenol just not work for me?
I think faith has a lot to do with it.
I don't have any faith that the Tylenol will work.........so it doesn't.
Everything can be broken down to faith.......either you believe or you don't.
And it doesn't matter what you believe, if you can make it fall within your "faith" then you are right........regardless of your faith.
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7745016 - 12/11/07 01:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Is my faith in these other forms of medicine overpowering Tylenol's ability to give me some relief, or does Tylenol just not work for me?
I think faith has a lot to do with it.
No, it doesn't work that way. You formed your opinion that Tylenol doesn't work for you based on an observation. An observation is evidence, so when we're dealing with evidence we're not talking about faith anymore.
Quote:
I don't have any faith that the Tylenol will work.........so it doesn't.
As opposed to having faith in Tylenol and this actually making it work for you? Sure, that would explain why so many kids who believe in santa make santa show up.  Seriously though, you can't possibly sustain that a belief can turn the is not to is. Do you need faith to drink water? Then what you say is that without faith your thirst will never be quenched and this doesn't make any sense.
Quote:
Everything can be broken down to faith.......either you believe or you don't.
Yes, but believing that Tylenol would work for you if only you had faith in it doesn't mean that it will also happen
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Rose
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7745066 - 12/11/07 01:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said: No point of reference needed. I was talking about the general idea of faith, nothing specific.
Yeah MT gets it.
Nightowl, if you are talking about "General" faith and you are only using definitions 4-6 (And not 1-3)... you are using the wrong word.
If you don't want to talk about anything, "Specific", you are in the wrong forum.
Yes, faith means a lot of things, but if you are skipping the PRIMARY definitions... 9 times out of 10 there is a better word out there to describe what you really mean.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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niteowl
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You can't prove that faith isn't the reason some drugs work and some don't........Thats one of the points I'm trying to make.
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daytripper23
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Re: Faith [Re: Rose]
#7745597 - 12/11/07 03:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Edit: Nevermind, I do not want to start an argument at this point.
Edited by daytripper23 (12/11/07 04:20 PM)
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7745770 - 12/11/07 04:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes you can.
Give poison to someone who has faith that they won't die from it. Then tell me your results.
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Veritas

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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7745908 - 12/11/07 04:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said: You can't prove that faith isn't the reason some drugs work and some don't........Thats one of the points I'm trying to make.
Erm, yes you can, actually. This is what the double-blind experiment does. If neither the subjects NOR the researchers know who receives the drug & who receives the placebo, then you CAN eliminate faith (aka placebo effect) as a variable.
You can also see this played out in a hundred everyday situations:
1. Someone eats potato salad from a deli with complete confidence (aka faith) that the salad is safe and wholesome. In fact, the mayonnaise used to make the salad is contaminated with bacteria. Does the person become sick, despite their faith in the quality of their lunch?
2. Another someone steps onto the floor in their office with utter faith that the floor will support their weight. However, termites have weakened the flooring to the extent that the floor collapses. Does the person fall into the basement, or float in thin air, supported by their faith?
3. A wife waits for her husband to return home from work, certain that he loves her and will be faithful to her. He is currently fucking his mistress at her apartment in the city. Does the wife's faith somehow stop her husband from committing adultery?
C'mon, buddy, your whole concept is fatally flawed. We may fool ourselves SOME of the time, but our beliefs do not undo reality.
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Rose
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Re: Faith [Re: Veritas]
#7745917 - 12/11/07 04:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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niteowl
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Re: Faith [Re: Veritas]
#7746138 - 12/11/07 05:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: C'mon, buddy, your whole concept is fatally flawed. We may fool ourselves SOME of the time, but our beliefs do not undo reality.
Good points.
I was trying to refer to spiritual faith. I just picked a bad example.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said: Yes you can.
Give poison to someone who has faith that they won't die from it. Then tell me your results.
I did a thread many years ago inquiring if it would be murder to poison a church's poison. Let me explain, in certain Southern USA churches where people practice snake handling to show faith, they also drink arsenic (if I remember correctly). The poison is either weak or one which one can build a tolerance to.
So here is the scenario: if I slip in a deadly amount of cyanide into their poison, could I be charged with murder?
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MushroomTrip
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: So here is the scenario: if I slip in a deadly amount of cyanide into their poison, could I be charged with murder?
So do you estimate there would be any deaths?
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OrgoneConclusion
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No doubt. I have faith that anyone taking a normally lethal dose would quickly zoom directly to their Creator.
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MushroomTrip
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Then I guess you can't really charge anyone for murder since it was god's will. Praise the lord!
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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niteowl
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: No doubt. I have faith that anyone taking a normally lethal dose would quickly zoom directly to their Creator.
I have faith that you won't do such a thing.
Isn't faith funny.
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7751129 - 12/12/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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In fact it is funny.  Upon which facts do you make this assertion?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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niteowl
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He has faith that he could kill some church goers by poisoning them........... I have faith that he won't do it......
We are both right in our faith.
So it doesn't matter what you have faith in, you can always be right.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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SoY
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7752985 - 12/13/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
So it doesn't matter what you have faith in, you can always be right.
That goes back once again to Orgone's post about how the ego always believes the *truth*. People are always *right* in their faith, but only to themselves. Sometimes, one's faith is congruent to the actual truth, and is *right*.
--------------------
   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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grebarius
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Re: Faith [Re: SoY]
#7753033 - 12/13/07 10:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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This thread was made for my friend who has such strong faith in the bible that he believes the world is 6000 yrs old.
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niteowl
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Re: Faith [Re: SoY]
#7753035 - 12/13/07 10:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Faith [Re: SoY]
#7753057 - 12/13/07 10:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SoY said:
Quote:
So it doesn't matter what you have faith in, you can always be right.
That goes back once again to Orgone's post about how the ego always believes the *truth*. People are always *right* in their faith, but only to themselves. Sometimes, one's faith is congruent to the actual truth, and is *right*.
! Now let's concentrate on the 'sometimes'
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niteowl
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Why?
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BlueCoyote
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7753419 - 12/13/07 12:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hmmm, because if one's faith is congruent to reality, one could share this as evaluable information to others and check out on which ground this 'match' can occur to others as well, to eventually make general assumptions about that what's all common to us all ?
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niteowl
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Rarely does that change ones faith.
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Silversoul
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Seems to me the only extent to which we can truly consider our faith to be congruent with reality is its pragmatic utility. For example, if your senses show that there is a wall in front of you, and you believe there is, then it will be helpful not to run into it. In this case, not having faith in your senses = pain. The same can be said of science. We consider science to be true because it is useful. Without it, we wouldn't have big screen TVs or hybrid cars or any of the cool gadgets we use.
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Icelander
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7754861 - 12/13/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Regardless of ones "faith" you see things in accordance to your faith.
This is pretty common in day to can cognition. As R.A.W. said:"What the thinker thinks the prover proves" Yet we have only partial influence over our personal reality as has been pointed out here.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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niteowl
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Yea. We have a lot of "faith clashing" in here 
'Tis human nature my friend........conflict
It's how we evolve.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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BlueCoyote
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Quote:
Silversoul said: Seems to me the only extent to which we can truly consider our faith to be congruent with reality is its pragmatic utility. For example, if your senses show that there is a wall in front of you, and you believe there is, then it will be helpful not to run into it. In this case, not having faith in your senses = pain. The same can be said of science. We consider science to be true because it is useful. Without it, we wouldn't have big screen TVs or hybrid cars or any of the cool gadgets we use.
Hehe, yes, faith is a wicked gadget Even if the faith in a wall is congruent, it shouldn't prevent one to use an air hammer to break through, for example. Or what about the more far causal effects in the future ? The big things, like the prospering or doom of mankind, according to their behaviour and development ? At some distance everything gets blurred and one has to use more tools again... and again how much is the outcome influenced/dependend by/on the tool... I like riddling about that
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Icelander
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7757698 - 12/14/07 09:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said: Yea. We have a lot of "faith clashing" in here 
'Tis human nature my friend........conflict
It's how we evolve.
Conflict seems inherent in nature. The opposition of forces create structure in nature.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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niteowl
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Conflict seems inherent in nature. The opposition of forces create structure in nature.
True.
But faith bashing creates nothing but anger and mis-trust
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Icelander
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7757899 - 12/14/07 11:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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But faith bashing creates nothing but anger and mis-trust
Depends on what you mean. Some people challenged (vigorously and directly) my faith and although I got angry and defensive at the time, now I am grateful. It got me thinking.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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niteowl
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7757987 - 12/14/07 11:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why cant we just get along with each other, regardless of ones faith.
Accept that they have a different faith than you, and go on living your life the way your faith tells you to.
Faith is the leading cause of our greatest joy and can be our greatest pain...........if we obsess on it too much.
The U.S. government had "faith" that Iraq may try to attack us with nuclear weapons, and started a war based on faith and not fact.
Now look at the misery caused by one mans "faith", and his ability to make a country believe him.
I have faith that Iraq never posed a threat to the U.S. I also have very little faith that O.B.L. blew up the twin towers on 9-11.
Does it matter to my neighbor what I believe in........no
He is free to believe in whatever he wishes........we both are. Neither one of us should be bashed because of our faith.
But there seems to be a lot of faith bashing in human nature for some reason.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Icelander
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
#7758035 - 12/14/07 11:45 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why cant we just get along
We can't because we don't want to.
The U.S. government had "faith" that Iraq may try to attack us with nuclear weapons, and started a war based on faith and not fact.
If you think faith was part of that equation I want to introduce you to the Mystery forum.
and his ability to make a country believe him.
He didn't make anyone do anything with his words. They all decided that for themselves. Just like I did not.
Does it matter to my neighbor what I believe in.
They often believe it does and thats what drives people, belief.
But there seems to be a lot of faith bashing in human nature for some reason.
"Humans are and imperfect species" -Prince, from the LEXX series.
Better to understand the role faith and belief play in your own life and let the rest of humanity do it's thing. Because they're going to anyway.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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niteowl
GrandPaw



Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Better to understand the role faith and belief play in your own life and let the rest of humanity do it's thing. Because they're going to anyway.
True.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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