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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
    #7745770 - 12/11/07 04:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yes you can.

Give poison to someone who has faith that they won't die from it.
Then tell me your results. :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
    #7745908 - 12/11/07 04:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
You can't prove that faith isn't the reason some drugs work and some don't........Thats one of the points I'm trying to make.




Erm, yes you can, actually. This is what the double-blind experiment does. If neither the subjects NOR the researchers know who receives the drug & who receives the placebo, then you CAN eliminate faith (aka placebo effect) as a variable.

You can also see this played out in a hundred everyday situations:

1. Someone eats potato salad from a deli with complete confidence (aka faith) that the salad is safe and wholesome. In fact, the mayonnaise used to make the salad is contaminated with bacteria. Does the person become sick, despite their faith in the quality of their lunch?

2. Another someone steps onto the floor in their office with utter faith that the floor will support their weight. However, termites have weakened the flooring to the extent that the floor collapses. Does the person fall into the basement, or float in thin air, supported by their faith?

3. A wife waits for her husband to return home from work, certain that he loves her and will be faithful to her. He is currently fucking his mistress at her apartment in the city. Does the wife's faith somehow stop her husband from committing adultery?

C'mon, buddy, your whole concept is fatally flawed. We may fool ourselves SOME of the time, but our beliefs do not undo reality.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Faith [Re: Veritas]
    #7745917 - 12/11/07 04:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:smirk:


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Fiddlesticks.



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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Faith [Re: Veritas]
    #7746138 - 12/11/07 05:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
C'mon, buddy, your whole concept is fatally flawed.  We may fool ourselves SOME of the time, but our beliefs do not undo reality.




Good points.

I was trying to refer to spiritual faith. I just picked a bad example. :flowstone:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Faith [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7746210 - 12/11/07 05:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Yes you can.

Give poison to someone who has faith that they won't die from it.
Then tell me your results. :lol:




I did a thread many years ago inquiring if it would be murder to poison a church's poison. Let me explain, in certain Southern USA churches where people practice snake handling to show faith, they also drink arsenic (if I remember correctly). The poison is either weak or one which one can build a tolerance to.

So here is the scenario: if I slip in a deadly amount of cyanide into their poison, could I be charged with murder?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Faith [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7746368 - 12/11/07 06:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
So here is the scenario: if I slip in a deadly amount of cyanide into their poison, could I be charged with murder?




So do you estimate there would be any deaths? :what:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Faith [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7746379 - 12/11/07 06:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

No doubt. I have faith that anyone taking a normally lethal dose would quickly zoom directly to their Creator.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Faith [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7746412 - 12/11/07 06:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Then I guess you can't really charge anyone for murder since it was god's will.
Praise the lord!  :beatjesus:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Faith [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7751117 - 12/12/07 08:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
No doubt. I have faith that anyone taking a normally lethal dose would quickly zoom directly to their Creator.




I have faith that you won't do such a thing.


Isn't faith funny.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
    #7751129 - 12/12/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

In fact it is funny. :lol:
Upon which facts do you make this assertion?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
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Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
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Re: Faith [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7752934 - 12/13/07 09:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

He has faith that he could kill some church goers by poisoning them...........
I have faith that he won't do it......

We are both right in our faith.

So it doesn't matter what you have faith in, you can always be right.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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InvisibleSoY
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
    #7752985 - 12/13/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

So it doesn't matter what you have faith in, you can always be right.




That goes back once again to Orgone's post about how the ego always believes the *truth*. People are always *right* in their faith, but only to themselves. Sometimes, one's faith is congruent to the actual truth, and is *right*.


--------------------

"The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji
"Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream."
"My karma ran over my dogma!"


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Offlinegrebarius
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Re: Faith [Re: SoY]
    #7753033 - 12/13/07 10:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

This thread was made for my friend who has such strong faith in the bible that he believes the world is 6000 yrs old.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Faith [Re: SoY]
    #7753035 - 12/13/07 10:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:yesnod:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Faith [Re: SoY]
    #7753057 - 12/13/07 10:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SoY said:
Quote:

So it doesn't matter what you have faith in, you can always be right.




That goes back once again to Orgone's post about how the ego always believes the *truth*.  People are always *right* in their faith, but only to themselves.  Sometimes, one's faith is congruent to the actual truth, and is *right*.



:thumbup: !
Now let's concentrate on the 'sometimes' :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Faith [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7753065 - 12/13/07 10:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Why?


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
    #7753419 - 12/13/07 12:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Hmmm, because if one's faith is congruent to reality, one could share this as evaluable information to others and check out on which ground this 'match' can occur to others as well, to eventually make general assumptions about that what's all common to us all ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Faith [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7753892 - 12/13/07 02:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Rarely does that change ones faith.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Faith [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7753963 - 12/13/07 02:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Seems to me the only extent to which we can truly consider our faith to be congruent with reality is its pragmatic utility. For example, if your senses show that there is a wall in front of you, and you believe there is, then it will be helpful not to run into it. In this case, not having faith in your senses = pain. The same can be said of science. We consider science to be true because it is useful. Without it, we wouldn't have big screen TVs or hybrid cars or any of the cool gadgets we use.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faith [Re: niteowl]
    #7754861 - 12/13/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Regardless of ones "faith" you see things in accordance to your faith.

This is pretty common in day to can cognition. As R.A.W. said:"What the thinker thinks the prover proves" Yet we have only partial influence over our personal reality as has been pointed out here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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