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SirTripAlot
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These Atheists are Hypocrites
#7739680 - 12/10/07 09:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I do agree with the right of this group to express their point of view both publicly and ideologically.....but isn't that exactly what they are against, when it comes to the right of other faiths to do this?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59111
'Imagine no religion,' says atheists' display Residents irked by city-approved sign in public park blaming faith for 9/11
Connecticut atheists, taking advantage of a town's policy of allowing holiday-season displays in its public park, have erected a 10-foot tall sign in celebration of the winter solstice that includes a message blaming the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, on religious believers.
The 3-sided sign was erected in the Town of Vernon's Central Park on Dec. 1 by the Connecticut Valley Atheists. The two sides facing Main Street feature a pre-attack image of the Twin Towers with the sun shining between them and the message, "Imagine no religion," drawn from the John Lennon anthem, "Imagine."
Use of the image is meant to say the Twin Towers would still be standing were it not for religion, CVA coordinator Dennis Himes told the Hartford Courant.
The goal is to "simply emphasize an advantage of atheism, something good about atheism," Himes said. "Al-Qaida is not a terrorist organization that happens to be religious, it is a terrorist organization that is inspired by its religious beliefs."
The third side of the sign faces town hall with a message about the winter solstice – the basis for the group being given a permit. It reads:
"In late December the sun is lower and days are shorter than any time of year. Throughout the rest of winter the sun gets higher and the days get longer. Because of this people have celebrated the winter solstice from time immemorial. People used to believe that gods moved the sun across the sky. Today we know that there are no gods, and that the sun moves by natural causes, and we celebrate not only the movement of the sun but our ability to understand that movement."
"We would prefer no displays promoting theological worldviews be displayed at all, but as long as they are we thank the Town of Vernon for permitting atheists equal access," the group says on its website.
"The town marked off three spots in the park," Himes said. "The notice to groups said first come, first served, so we picked the one right in front of town hall. We fully expected the other displays to be up around the same time we put ours up."
While the town issued permits to a local synagogue for a menorah display and to a group of churches that plan to place a creche in the park, the atheists were the first to erect their display – indeed, as of the weekend, theirs remained the only display except for a large Christmas tree Mayor Jason L. McCoy had a town crew erect 10 feet from the atheists' sign.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59111
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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BrAiN
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7739693 - 12/10/07 09:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Meh... don't have an opinion on this
But the Atheists who get all pissed off at Christmas stuff everywhere irritate me.... I mean.. you're an Atheist.. who cares? It's not like you believe in a God that will be angered in having it there , right?
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Silversoul
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7739720 - 12/10/07 09:29 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: I do agree with the right of this group to express their point of view both publicly and ideologically.....but isn't that exactly what they are against, when it comes to the right of other faiths to do this?
If I've learned anything from posting in P&S, it's that atheists can be just as proselytizing as any religion.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: Silversoul]
#7739739 - 12/10/07 09:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not to derail this thread, but I would agree that atheism is a faith in itself.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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afoaf
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7739767 - 12/10/07 09:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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hard to say, I'm sure some atheists would prefer there be no open display of religion, but in this case it appears that they were given equal footing and took advantage of the situation to share their world-view.
I don't find it wholly reprehensible.
the 9-11 thing might be going a little far...
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afoaf
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7739777 - 12/10/07 09:53 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Not to derail this thread, but I would agree that atheism is a faith in itself.
This is a bone of contention, as traditional theists are trying to get atheism categorized as a religion such that they can request that atheistic assertions such as evolution share equal footing with other theologically based principles such as creationism.
It's a disingenuous attempt to lump that which is, by definition, NOT a religion in with things that clearly are religion.
The word faith itself can mean:
"belief that is not based on proof" or "belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion"
In that regard, atheism is clearly not a 'faith' in the literal sense.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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BrAiN
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: afoaf]
#7739790 - 12/10/07 09:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'd disagree and say that it is a religion, seeing how atheism tends to be a conviction. If you're SURE about something regarding the afterlife or spirituality, I'd call it a religion.. even though technically all they're SURE of is that there isn't a God.
But then again.. it's just a word. A turd by any other name still smells like doodoobutter.
If antheism is religion or if it isn't... does it really matter?
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Silversoul
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: BrAiN]
#7739808 - 12/10/07 10:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
BrAiN said: I'd disagree and say that it is a religion, seeing how atheism tends to be a conviction. If you're SURE about something regarding the afterlife or spirituality, I'd call it a religion.. even though technically all they're SURE of is that there isn't a God.
Well, those things constitute a leap of faith, but faith in and of itself does not constitute a religion.
Anyway, I agree with afoaf that aside from the 9/11 reference, I don't have too much of a problem with what was done here.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: Silversoul]
#7739816 - 12/10/07 10:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Me either.....its just seems trivial to me that they are espousing their ideology on government property....just like the Christian faith.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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BrAiN
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: Silversoul]
#7739817 - 12/10/07 10:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea.. back on topic..
What can ya say.. freedom of speech
Although I think you should be allowed to walk up to any stranger on the street and yell CUNT really loud... but I don't think you SHOULD.
But now that I think about it.. if the *SIGN* is on PUBLIC property and not private.. it should be subject to a vote, IMO. If the majority of TAXPAYERS don't want something on property paid for by TAXPAYER money they it should be allowed to be voted off... like a fat, lazy asshole on Survivor.
It's a tough, grey area. I mean.. if a majority of people don't like it on taxpayer soil they should have the right to keep it off.. but then again due to the 1st amendment we should have the right to free speech. I'm FOR being allowed to stand on public soil and say this kinda stuff.. but I'm against having a sign there if taxpayers/voters dont want it... but then again I'm FOR allowing someone to have one of those WEARABLE signs that talk about the 9/11/religion thing.
Where do we draw the line?
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: BrAiN]
#7739824 - 12/10/07 10:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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the will of the majority should subvert the right of a minority to express their views and opinions in a venue that is provided for others to do the very same thing?
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BrAiN
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: afoaf]
#7739840 - 12/10/07 10:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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But like SirTripAlot's is asking... this already happens when we aren't allowed to have religious signs in government areas?
I'm all for adding things than subtracting. I'm for seperation of religion and state.. but I'm against taking GOD and BIBLE statues out of public buildings like courthouses. I say, instead of taking them out.... make some sort of shrine to your OWN opinions and have it placed alongside there.
I guess I'm just confused on the subject.
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Diploid
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: BrAiN]
#7739878 - 12/10/07 10:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm all for adding things than subtracting. I'm for seperation of religion and state.. but I'm against taking GOD and BIBLE statues out of public buildings like courthouses. I say, instead of taking them out.... make some sort of shrine to your OWN opinions and have it placed alongside there.
This is not workable. If you let your suggestion run to its conclusion, there will be hundreds, maybe thousands of religious displays in every courthouse. And there will be bickering over whose goes in front who gets to set up the bigger display and so on.
It's retarded. If you want a religious display, set it up on your front yard or at your church, not on public land and buildings that I own and use together with you.
Absolute separation of Church and State is the only way to prevent favoritism in a government composed of people with many religions. That means NO religious displays of any kind in any government construct ever, including our money and our Pledge of Allegiance.
If cesspools of religious excrement like the Middle East haven't convinced you of that, I don't know what will.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Arp
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: BrAiN]
#7739886 - 12/10/07 10:29 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I'd disagree and say that it is a religion, seeing how atheism tends to be a conviction
Atheism, for what it stands for does not include a belief in a supernatural power, unlike religion.
I don't see how you can compare these two?
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afoaf
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: BrAiN]
#7739887 - 12/10/07 10:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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oh, I understand what you are saying.
maybe these atheists have decided to fight that battle on another front.
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BrAiN
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: afoaf]
#7739945 - 12/10/07 10:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I should have just stayed out of this thread altogether
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afoaf
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: BrAiN]
#7739971 - 12/10/07 10:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I blame SirTrips
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BrAiN
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: afoaf]
#7739983 - 12/10/07 10:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wanna bring back the Ottoman Empire and go live in Turkey.
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SlashOZ
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7740350 - 12/10/07 12:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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better yet the sign should read "imagine no idiots" religion has nothing to do with it, stupid people do.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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BrAiN
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: SlashOZ]
#7740359 - 12/10/07 12:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Or if you wanted to be a total ass to piss people off you could just have a poster with the WTC and "Imagine the world with no skyscrapers'
BOHH!!!
That was wrong. Flame away!
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SirTripAlot
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: afoaf]
#7740492 - 12/10/07 12:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, fuck me.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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johnm214



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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: BrAiN]
#7740872 - 12/10/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
BrAiN said: But like SirTripAlot's is asking... this already happens when we aren't allowed to have religious signs in government areas?
I'm all for adding things than subtracting. I'm for seperation of religion and state.. but I'm against taking GOD and BIBLE statues out of public buildings like courthouses. I say, instead of taking them out.... make some sort of shrine to your OWN opinions and have it placed alongside there.
I guess I'm just confused on the subject.
I don't know if you've followed these cases, but that is a generally acceptable resolution. One supreme court case where the commandments were in the courthouse as a "origin of law" display or some such nonsense, recognized that adding passages from the Torah, Koran, et cet. would be o.k. I believe this remedy was fashioned by a lower court.
Of course this never came to pass cuz it wasn't meant to be origin's of law, just an exclusionary and non-secular promotion of their religion of choice.
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wilshire
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: SlashOZ]
#7746737 - 12/11/07 07:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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better yet the sign should read "imagine no idiots" religion has nothing to do with it, stupid people do.
usually religion and stupidity go hand in hand.
to whomever said atheism is a faith, how so?
what is hypocritical about their sign?
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SirTripAlot
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: wilshire]
#7747113 - 12/11/07 09:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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They advocate no displays of religion on public property, yet they do the same thing with the signs of their ideology.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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wilshire
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7749909 - 12/12/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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They advocate no displays of religion on public property, yet they do the same thing with the signs of their ideology.
their ideology is not a religion.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: wilshire]
#7752919 - 12/13/07 09:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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So its OK to express your point of view publicly, yet if you have a religious inclination to your views, you can't? Is their some form of intellectual thought that trumps any thought deriving from organized religions?
Please describe what makes the expression of atheism on public property warranted, while everything else can be thrown by the wayside. I would humbly ask for you to re read the main article posted, as these specific atheists made references to religion in their sign.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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ApJunkie
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7752936 - 12/13/07 09:32 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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did none of you retards read this phrase?
Quote:
"We would prefer no displays promoting theological worldviews be displayed at all, but as long as they are we thank the Town of Vernon for permitting atheists equal access," the group says on its website.
They don't like people flaunting their opinions either, but as long as everyone else is doing it, they just want their voice to be heard too.
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dshroom
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: BrAiN]
#7752948 - 12/13/07 09:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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God teaches that all activity everywhere is god's creation so see the atheists as god's creation and love them. i recently asked a wise friend, what about those who say their way is the only way? he said every way is the way. atheists, hypocrites, hairy eyed ogres: God's creation and brimming with love and good will.
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Seuss
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: wilshire]
#7753588 - 12/13/07 12:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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> to whomever said atheism is a faith, how so?
I didn't say it, but the way I have heard it discussed... the people that believe in Gd have no proof, so they take it on faith that Gd exists based upon the miracles they witness everyday in life. The people that do not believe in Gd have no proof, so they take it on faith that Gd does not exist based upon the lack of miracles they witness everyday in life.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Diploid
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7754232 - 12/13/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color." -- Don Hirschberg
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Silversoul
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Re: These Atheists are Hypocrites [Re: Diploid]
#7754243 - 12/13/07 03:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: "Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color." -- Don Hirschberg
And yet, if we had a law against promoting one hair color over another, do you think it would be fair for bald people to promote baldness?
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