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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27251146 - 03/13/21 10:53 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Neotype for 'fimetaria' must be constructed, and for now I've only seen this observation.

Or, Anglerfish voluteners to do a hard work and dig some holes and search for composted horse manure and proves me wrong.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27251210 - 03/13/21 11:39 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RenegadeMycologist said:
Neotype for 'fimetaria' must be constructed, and for now I've only seen this observation.





Check these observations of presumed P. fimetaria from Denmark:

https://svampe.databasen.org/taxon/19328


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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: Anglerfish]
    #27251440 - 03/13/21 02:01 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

FOLLOWING IS OLD POST OF MINE IN WHICH I AM TERRIBLY WRONG. DID NOT UNDERSTAND OR HAD ENOUGH REFERENCE MATERIAL FOR UNDERSTANDING FIMETARIA. I WAS ALSO A DOUCHEBAG. WILL NOT EDIT OR DELETE IT, MY EGO IS NOT HURT, WE LIVE AND LEARN.

That is Psilocybe semilanceata with preserved annulus and coprophilic habitat. I bet it would match 100% with semilanceata if sequenced.

I can see only one picture, but if there were more, I bet they would look like this (observation from England - https://mushroomobserver.org/437738?q=1eQHfin) in which it says in the end (as it always does) - "Growing in the same habitat as Psilocybe Semilanceata, sometimes right next to it."

Compare the last picture in this England find, with the Denmark find, it's the same species. Then look all the other pictures from England find (because it is a bigger sample), many of them could easily pass as semilanceata. It is semilanceata with oddball morphology and habitat, no need for creating new taxons. Microscopy also suggest they are synonyms, since there are no distinguishing features. That is not something to go by, but at this point only dna could prove fimetaria, since observations and microscopy failed.
I would also take into account what kk said about mushrooms proved to be libs and outnumbering fimetaria 100/1, since he is here for a long time and probably seen dozens of potential fimetaria requests, as I'm sure you also witnessed before my time here.

Also, Denmark find looks nothing like the one Alan labeled fimetaria and from this thread, for which I wonder, what did it match with.


Edited by RenegadeMycologist (09/09/23 01:58 PM)


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27251542 - 03/13/21 03:39 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RenegadeMycologist said:
That is Psilocybe semilanceata with preserved annulus and coprophilic habitat. I bet it would match 100% with semilanceata if sequenced.




I'm not so sure. The veil remnants on the cap speak against, P. semilanceata which at least in my experience never has that feature.

I don't think these pictures are conclusive of anything, though, but surely suggestive of a species different to P. semilanceata.

The hunt continues...


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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: Anglerfish]
    #27268421 - 03/25/21 06:44 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

As for Fimetaria. I've found a couple macroscopically ID by Alan. They seem a lot more common here in the Netherlands or at least we find a lot of blueing dung psilocybes (if there is any discussion about the actual existence of Fimetaria, Liniformans or the more evasive Puberula) the last 10 years or so. Mostly they are found in old pastures in dunes near the sea. This year I will do a big Fimetaria Hunt from October all the way to December. I will keep u posted.
As for now check my thread in Advanced mycology where I try to grow out the supposed Fimetaria.


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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: semilancreator]
    #27268450 - 03/25/21 07:16 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Doubt fimetaria is any different than 'strictipes', 'subfimetaria' or similar mysterious/non-existent taxons.

If it really does exist, I would like to see some respectable observations, then sequenced to see how close/far is to Ps.semilanceata. And how close is to those 2 sequences and Alans sequence for this one in this thread. That will conclude, either this from this thread and the two matched with it should be renamed to something else, or fimetaria is indeed standalone species.

As far as I see it, it shares with Ps.semilanceata same habitat, same micro characteristics, exact same fruiting season etc. Usually found few meters apart in the same field.
The only difference is that's growing from dung (if not, why name Fimetaria?), and that could explain absence of strong papilla as in ordinary libs, where they need pointy shape to push though grass roots.

As far as Ps.liniformans go, I've seen compelling evidence for it's existence, not requiring DNA sequencing, although that one should be sequenced as well.

@semilancreator
All the distinguishing features you listed in our corespondence for Psilocybe, like separable pelicle, or striate margin, or gill attachment, happens in Deconica as well. Other than bluing, there is not much difference in many cases, and many collections are ambiguous.
Send those fimetaria my way, or directly in Spain, I'm paying for them to get sequenced, like I already said I will.


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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27268458 - 03/25/21 07:26 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

That said, I'm eager to find out how your fimetaria grow will turn out. Other than wood loving species and cubes, I don't have much experience in cultivation, so I can't chime in with any advice on that - other than straw/dung would probably be ideal bulk substrate.

Ps.liniformans is grown with great results, but Ps.semilanceata resisted all attempts at it. Best I've seen is 3 mushrooms from Cronicr, and if somebody seen/did better, please share link.
So I suspect your fimetaria could resist cultivation attempts.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27268482 - 03/25/21 07:49 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RenegadeMycologist said:
Ps.semilanceata resisted all attempts at it. Best I've seen is 3 mushrooms from Cronicr, and if somebody seen/did better, please share link.




CaptainFuture did a pretty impressive grow many years ago: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13605521#13605521

Quote:

So I suspect your fimetaria could resist cultivation attempts.




Possibly. But consider that a dung loving species could have different growth parameters. It's always worth a try.


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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: Anglerfish]
    #27268500 - 03/25/21 08:12 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Nicccccce, thanks for the link man :thumbup:

I'm cheering for the fimetaria grow. Think he should prolly hit mushroom cultivation, probably will get better response, adv mycology is dead end street.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27270138 - 03/26/21 10:32 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RenegadeMycologist said:
Doubt fimetaria is any different than 'strictipes', 'subfimetaria' or similar mysterious/non-existent taxons.





Psilocybe fimetaria is quite distinct from Psilocybe strictipes.  P. strictipes is a synonym of P. semilanceata.  I am not sure what P. subfimetaria is.


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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27270145 - 03/26/21 10:40 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

RenegadeMycologist said:
Doubt fimetaria is any different than 'strictipes', 'subfimetaria' or similar mysterious/non-existent taxons.





Psilocybe fimetaria is quite distinct from Psilocybe strictipes.  P. strictipes is a synonym of P. semilanceata.  I am not sure what P. subfimetaria is.




I think that what Renegade ment was that he thinks Fimetaria as a species will end up like Stictipes did... first being a seperate species however after proper analysis turning out to be in fact just Semilanceata. I think Renegade has the opinion that Fimetaria is a weird variety of Semilanceata however I do disagree since I found Fimetaria both in Semi and non semi habitat.

peace!


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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: semilancreator]
    #27270231 - 03/26/21 11:53 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

semilancreator said:
I think that what Renegade ment was that he thinks Fimetaria as a species will end up like Stictipes did... first being a seperate species however after proper analysis turning out to be in fact just Semilanceata. I think Renegade has the opinion that Fimetaria is a weird variety of Semilanceata...



Exactly, couldn't put it any better myself.

Wasn't comparing fimetaria to strictipes, not directly at least, I was just making a parallel how that taxon was unnessesary, and it's just a common variety of existing species.

Since it likes the same habitats and has the same fruting season, and it's usually in close viscinity of semilanceata, I have a theory, well it's just a hypothesis, that it could be semi.
I based that hypothesis on not well documented Fimetaria finds, overlapping microscopic characteristics with semilanceata, and many specimens having ambiguous morphological characteristics. Guzman's description of fimetaria does not really work with some of the supposed fimetaria finds. Not only in morphology, but in not 'fimetaria' (dung) habitat.
That is why I think european specimens (from dung and grass) should be collected, sequenced, and run against the database.

I know Alan that you got 2 matches with fimetaria, but that's a match with collections labeled fimetaria, maybe it's undesribed Psilocybe, and fimetaria is something else.

But all that is just a speculation and hypothesis, main reason I'm pushing this is to understand fimetaria better, since it's been quite mysterious during the years, and to help people identify fimetaria easier if it's real.


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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27270298 - 03/26/21 12:57 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Again I have to disagree on the semilanceata part (fimetaria also being found in nonsemi habitat like sanddunes and fields covered in moss) however the rest is interesting. This year I will do a big Fimi hunt and I allready got some Dutch shroomers anxious to help me. Hopefully we will be able to collect a large collection of the species to do proper testing on them.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: semilancreator]
    #27270314 - 03/26/21 01:17 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

semilancreator said:
Again I have to disagree on the semilanceata part (fimetaria also being found in nonsemi habitat like sanddunes and fields covered in moss)




Have you confirmed 100% that the ones growing in moss and sand dunes are P. fimetaria and not a different species?

Quote:

This year I will do a big Fimi hunt and I allready got some Dutch shroomers anxious to help me. Hopefully we will be able to collect a large collection of the species to do proper testing on them.




That sounds like a great idea, can't wait to see what you find!

Please make sure to put each collection in separate containers and take written notes of all features including habitat.
Also test for separable gill edge if it is P. liniformans. From the descriptions I take it that the two species can look
extremely similar if this feature is overlooked.

Looking forward to some Psilocybe Euro-porn! :crazy2:


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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: Anglerfish]
    #27270350 - 03/26/21 01:55 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
Please make sure to put each collection in separate containers and take written notes of all features including habitat.
Also test for separable gill edge if it is P. liniformans. From the descriptions I take it that the two species can look
extremely similar if this feature is overlooked.

Looking forward to some Psilocybe Euro-porn! :crazy2:



:whathesaid:


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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: semilancreator]
    #27270358 - 03/26/21 02:00 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

semilancreator said:
fimetaria also being found in nonsemi habitat like sanddunes and fields covered in moss



Fimis apparently also like to found themselves in coniferous highland woodland like fimis from this thread :crazy2:


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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27270362 - 03/26/21 02:05 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I think op's mushroom is silvaticas/medullosas retarded mutated dna cousin....

...and also, half observed fimis are deconica, other half are retarded semis :crazy2:

:robindance:


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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: Anglerfish]
    #27271884 - 03/27/21 01:45 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah I will try to get a proper study going and photograph a lot of surrounding flora and fauna to get a good picture of what makes these creatures thrive. Ofcourse I check for the layer on the gills to confirm liniformans and to look for the distinct gills of the Deconica genus. It's nice to be able to do some science instead of just shroom around hahaha

peace!


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: semilancreator]
    #27273843 - 03/28/21 11:40 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

semilancreator said:
I think that what Renegade ment was that he thinks Fimetaria as a species will end up like Stictipes did... first being a seperate species however after proper analysis turning out to be in fact just Semilanceata. I think Renegade has the opinion that Fimetaria is a weird variety of Semilanceata





That is not correct.  Psilocybe fimetaria is a good species with a unique DNA sequence.


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Re: Psilocybe pellicullosa/silvatica [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27274568 - 03/29/21 02:41 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Indeed. True Fimetaria is something on it's own. However I have seen finds documented on the internet which are actually Deconica or Stropharia. I myself have seen one find that could be a flattened Semilanceata as well.
But again, point is that Fimetaria is a seperate species. I have found one person who might have tried them but I am not yet able to contact him. I am sending samples of my Fimetaria find to both Spain and Alan for sequencing and hopefully coming year I will collect so much that proper research alkaloid wise can be done on them when I send it to a lab!

Semilancreator,


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