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Offlinelonestar2004
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ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC
    #7737892 - 12/09/07 07:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)




http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/09/506930.aspx



COLUMBIA, SC -- Oprah Winfrey took the stage at William Bryce Football Stadium to deafening cheers. Over 29,000 people filled the risers, some having driven from as far as Savannah, GA, to see her appear with Barack Obama.

At what was the third campaign stop Oprah has made with Obama this weekend, she praised him as an "evolved leader," pinning her desire to support Obama on his ability to inspire people.

"For the first time, I'm stepping out of my pew because I've been inspired. I've been inspired to believe that a new vision is possible for America. Dr King dreamed the dream. But we don't have to just dream the dream anymore. We get to vote that dream into reality," she told the crowd.

Oprah's speech were largely similar to the remarks she delivered in Iowa, but her words appeared more compelling against the background of a football stadium filled with people. And rather than delivering a long preamble on why she didn't think she could easily sell her fans on a political candidate she simply joked, "I got some sense, I know the difference between a book club and this seminal moment in our history."

Oprah's message was one of personal empowerment, similar to the stories she tells on her show everyday, telling the crowd that asking Obama to wait to run was the same as someone telling someone that they should wait to try and better their lives. It played well with the crowd here who shouted and applauded as she spoke.

Though the campaign came no where near filling the 80,000 seat auditorium, the atmosphere was infectious with Arrested Development and local bands playing, getting the crowd to sing and dance along.

Obama also had a fine moment, bringing thousands to their feet saying that it was time to "stand up" for change. The event ended with the crowd dancing along with Obama, his wife Michelle and Oprah.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 3,950
Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7737926 - 12/09/07 07:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

thanks for the update.

i support Ron Paul in 2008.

only issue that I disagree with Ron Paul is he doesn't want to continue to use government money for agricultural subsidies.

this is a horrible idea for so many reasons. agricultural subsidies are essential to our economy in my opinion and it will most likely skyrocket prices or damage our economy in other sectors.

if you look at it from an economical standpoint.. ..the cost will get passed onto the consumer and it will open our markets up to foreign reliance on agriculture which will lower net exports.. which, as far as american agriculture is concerned, is currently in good condition and a large sector of the economy. why fix it if it aint broke?

everyone wants to screw agriculture.. you think because you live in the city it wont affect you?

and dont even get me started on giuliani..


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InvisibleMastamike1118
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7738012 - 12/09/07 07:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

either that or the small time farmers will get big time...?


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7738050 - 12/09/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Farm Subsidies are one of the biggest crocks of shit ever.

And I live in Wisconsin.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Registered: 04/06/06
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7738077 - 12/09/07 08:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

ok that's your statement..

what's the reasoning behind your statement?


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Registered: 10/20/06
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7738541 - 12/09/07 10:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

farm subsidies are abused all the time. the are anti free(fair) market and they stifle growth in africa. sense growth is stifled in africa we end up footing the bill for their countries economies because we give over half the world's humanitarian aid.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7738586 - 12/09/07 10:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

at their very core, farm subsidies are an artificial force that distorts markets.

trade barriers and price supports are bad things. period.

they prop up bad business domestically and internationally depress the value
of crops which cripples other exporters who don't enjoy the same government subsidies as american farmers.

in this regard, farm subsidies tend to have a ripple effect that further
contorts the free market as other nations are forced to react with their
own subsidies. this has had dire effect on international farmers who compete
in highly politicized domestic production markets such as sugar, corn and rice
but whom also don't enjoy the same levels of price protection at home.

it also promotes the growth of crops that are less than ideal for the region
which also tends to imply high use of fertilizers and pesticides as well as
water use.

(did you know I pay about $1100 for water that a farmer pays $17 to flood
his land with?)


you can make the argument about national food security...between the grains
in the midwest and the nuts, fruit and vegetables of the west, I'm pretty
sure we're ok....in fact, I'd do away with all sugar subsidies...it's a
pollutive and foul behemoth that doesn't deserve the vast amounts of money
it gets.

good articles in this month's economist...

http://economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=10252015
http://economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10250420


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: afoaf]
    #7738853 - 12/09/07 11:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

alright i can see that but i'm kinda biased.. taking a domestic agriculture economist's standpoint..

glad i got some discussion going and not saying i disagree with either of y'all but..

who gives a shit about foreign markets?

humanitarian aid is usually nongovernmental (at least in africa) and who's to say that we want foreign agriculture.. it's hard enough to get mexico to go by our lowest agricultural standards much less developing countries which i believe would cut corners, but that's beside the point.

i just feel like it would be crippling american agriculture and farmers if we did away with subsidies. i'm gonna read those articles once i get done studying for my statistics test and i'll post back on my findings..

also: what about ethanol production? if we really wanted to spur economic growth in foreign countries, we could just invest in their corn/sugarcane/etc fields and use it for ethanol production.. they get money and we get ethanol.. and we dont have to use our natural resources or land to devote to ethanol-dedicated fields...

i'm just speculating.. seems like a good idea though right?

i know lots of ethanol production goes on in south america namely in brazil, but why not move it to africa and other developing countries?

there are also many ways to get ecoethanol (cellulosic ethanol) out of many different plants which im sure we can find some highly adaptable to africa and developing countries. if ya dont know cellulosic ethanol utilizes the whole plant instead of just the food portion and there is little to no waste, although the refinement process is a little more in-depth

feedback anyone?


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7739020 - 12/10/07 01:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I could get behind Obama if Paul doesn't take the candidacy. He's probably the most sensible "main-stream" candidate.


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7739608 - 12/10/07 08:33 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The (one of the) problem(s) with ethanol in general is that the production of the fuel from food sources is driving up the cost of food all over the world, including places where those foods are the staple sources of nutrition for a majority of the population.

I highly doubt you're going to have much success encouraging African farmers to grow corn for ethanol production when they are generally having trouble producing enough corn to eat.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7739829 - 12/10/07 10:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
The (one of the) problem(s) with ethanol in general is that the production of the fuel from food sources is driving up the cost of food all over the world, including places where those foods are the staple sources of nutrition for a majority of the population.

I highly doubt you're going to have much success encouraging African farmers to grow corn for ethanol production when they are generally having trouble producing enough corn to eat.



Well, he did mention cellulosic ethanol, which doesn't require food crops. Of course, I see no reason to import cellulosic ethanol when we can produce it ourselves with common prairie grasses from the Midwest.

Anyway, ending our agricultural subsidies is one of the best things we can do for Africa. There are other measures they need to take in their own countries, but as far as we're concerned, the best thing we can do is stop fucking with their economies.


--------------------


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7739951 - 12/10/07 10:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

bottom line, if you can't survive without subsidization, then you don't
deserve to survive.

second of all, ethanol/corn subsidies in the name of biofuel is a farce.

you can feed a person for a year with the amount of corn it takes to create
enough ethanol for a SINGLE 20 gallon tank of gas. ethanol is not a viable
long term fuel solution...in that regard, let Brazil (and Africa as you
suggest) flood their farmland with the fertilizers and pesticides necessary
for sugar cane or corn (other) production.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7739958 - 12/10/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

First on-topic reply, high five.

I pretty much would like for Oprah to die a lot. I don't admire any of the things she stands for because I can see her only as a shepherd leading a flock MANIACALLY.

Oprahism..

I don't know of any other cases in which Hollywood big-names were so capable in pushing a political candidate, though I'm sure there have been and perhaps somebody can provide me with a couple historical examples. Either way I don't conceive it as admirable. Fuck, if she was supporting Ron Paul I'd really start to think twice about voting for him.

I was having a conversation the other day about something somehow related, and was wondering out loud who gives a shit about Hollywood star's views on political candidates. They act and get paid for it to begin with, no exception for Oprah, though perhaps she's so good as to fool herself. Furthermore, half of them are fucking shit-for-brains and nobody should listen to them anyway.

I was waiting for somebody to post about this so I could voice my biased opinions, thanks.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: afoaf]
    #7739959 - 12/10/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

older article, but I doubt much has changed in the last 5 years.

by and large, farm subsidies are going to the ConAgra and not the Waltons.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/BG1520.cfm


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleim_on_a_boat
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: afoaf]
    #7740257 - 12/10/07 12:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

ya i said that most of them go to companies.. i know this.. smalltime farmers benefit a lot because they have a lot riding on their crops namely if they are going to be able to produce enough to go to market or not... but they sell crop insurance for small timers.

on top of that, madtowntripper says:

Quote:

I highly doubt you're going to have much success encouraging African farmers to grow corn for ethanol production when they are generally having trouble producing enough corn to eat.




and i agree with this which is why im thinking.. why does it seem like we are 'stealing the market' from developing countries trying to sell their agriculture here if they are having problems feeding themselves?

how are they going to develop such a large surplus in such a short amount of time without foreign (in this case probably U.S.) investment?

this means that we would have to directly give money to their agricultural causes, which is money that would have been used to subsidize our own farmers and boost government spending which is a nice expansionary policy during a recessionary period.

i can argue that we are possibly currently in a recession (looking at economic indicators, namely housing development) and that cutting farm subsidies and government spending (which puts money back out into the citizen's hands) would slow down our economy... but that's not necessarily a bad thing..

i try to be optimistic and i think that Ron Paul honestly knows what's best economically for the country and will put the correct policy in place to smite this insane deficit we're amassing. that's why i am actually gonna turn out and vote like my shit might actually make a difference.

check this out:

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

that share belongs to your children and possibly your grandchildren..

and also, they keep 'raising the limit' on the debt. how fucking absurd is that.

i have convinced myself that subsidies aren't really that necessary, but they also dont take up near as much as other unnecessary government programs so I think that those should be the first to go and a gradual 'weaning off' of agricultural subsidies should happen.

alright i'm done with this thread.. back to getting paid by the state to study for my statistics final tomorrow..


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #7740277 - 12/10/07 12:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

in response to drkrobotnik...

1. the U.S. government gives aid to 3rd party organizations aka NGO's who do humanitarian work in Africa all the time.

2. foreign markets that suck have a possibility of breeding terrorism because of limited or nonexistant economic opportunities.

2.b. foreign markets are also essential to the world economy. the better other markets do the better or economy does. simple free(fair) trade economics.

3. ethanol production is a bad thing anyway. corn uses way to much water to be turned into gas and not eaten. there are better ways to reduce pollution from cars, ethanol just opens up to many problems.

3.b. limited aquifer resources need to be protected and ethanol production is just throwing these resources away. not to mention corn production sucks most of the nutrients out of the water so farmers then have to spend that much more fertilizing their fields (aka farm subsidies)

4. ethanol production in Brazil is possible because of slash and burn deforestation techniques. any nominal decrease in co2 output in brazil is negated because they destroy one of the biggest sources of O2 for the world.

4.b. not to mention if the corn wasn't being used for ethanol it could be used for food to feed people instead of artificially inflating the price of corn.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: ABOUT 30,000 SEE OBAMA-OPRAH IN SC [Re: elbisivni]
    #7741050 - 12/10/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yup.

But I'm glad this Hollywood big name got involved!

Oprah Vs Hillary this is gonna be fun!!!!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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