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Drewwyann
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TV commercials are people too
#7732343 - 12/08/07 09:16 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I started to think about everything as part of the cycle of life, and part of the larger consciousness, and I started to think to myself that it seems that you don't have to be alive to actually be a living thing.
A TV commercial. It needs to eat, and it needs organs just like we do. Without funding (food), it could not be, without organs (people who organize is) it could not function. It has people that gets the actors, it has people that get the props, it has people who contact the add agency, etc... Much the way we have organs that chew our food, digest food, and make it usable by our bodies.
If a commercial does it's job, more people will buy what it is advertising, and the commercial will, in turn, make more commercials (procreation).
Everything is trying to make it's way.
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mushroomplume
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7732358 - 12/08/07 09:21 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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maybe drugs aren't right for you.
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Icelander
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: mushroomplume]
#7732366 - 12/08/07 09:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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igwna
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: mushroomplume]
#7732367 - 12/08/07 09:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
oliveplume said: maybe drugs aren't right for you.
hahaha.
i think you're looking too deeply into tv commercials? just a thought.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Drewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: igwna]
#7732378 - 12/08/07 09:33 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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it's not just TV commercials, I'm talking about anything. Your computers, your speakers, movies, lightbulbs, cars, etc...
I don't really see how this is all that funny. Its pretty true when you look at it. And this was a completely sober thought, for your information.
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igwna
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7732381 - 12/08/07 09:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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yeah but tv commercials and my computer lack emotion and/or the ability to be conscious and feel.
...i hope.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Drewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: igwna]
#7732390 - 12/08/07 09:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just because they don't have a brain doesn't mean they don't have a consciousness. It is just manifested in a different way than living things.
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Icelander
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7732392 - 12/08/07 09:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Its pretty true when you look at it.
And you went to what high school?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7732399 - 12/08/07 09:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Drewwyann said: Just because they don't have a brain doesn't mean they don't have a consciousness. It is just manifested in a different way than living things.
And you base your classic new age assumption on what evidence? I'm not saying you're wrong but please provide some evidence so we can debate this fine issue.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Drewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Icelander]
#7732405 - 12/08/07 09:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm not saying they are actually living breathing things, I'm saying you don't need to be scientifically considered alive to do many of the things living things do.
A commercial was just the best example I had.
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mushroomplume
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7732416 - 12/08/07 09:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Drewwyann said: I'm not saying they are actually living breathing things, I'm saying you don't need to be scientifically considered alive to do many of the things living things do.
A commercial was just the best example I had.
Hmm. I guess in an artifial sense, a commercial is a living thing. As in it needs electricity to play.
Where is this going though?
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Icelander
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7732428 - 12/08/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Worse case of anthropomorphism I have ever seen doctor.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Drewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: mushroomplume]
#7732439 - 12/08/07 09:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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did any of you read the original post?
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mushroomplume
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Icelander]
#7732442 - 12/08/07 09:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Worse case of anthropomorphism I have ever seen doctor.
Just give me the go when his condition worsens.
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mushroomplume
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7732452 - 12/08/07 10:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Drewwyann said: did any of you read the original post?
I reread it.
A commercial is much like an artifical organism, it is given a purpose and has needs to fulfill it.
Isn't that what you were trying to say?
*Television Commercials & Maxi Pads do not fit into the grand circle of life in my humble opinion.
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Drewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: mushroomplume]
#7732488 - 12/08/07 10:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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why don't maxi pads fit? A male black widow will be killed in order to reproduce much the way a maxi pad will be leaked on in order to get money to make more maxi pads.
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mushroomplume
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7732518 - 12/08/07 10:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Drewwyann said: why don't maxi pads fit? A male black widow will be killed in order to reproduce much the way a maxi pad will be leaked on in order to get money to make more maxi pads.
omg, haha.
on an inherent level, the atoms which constitute the maxi pad do have a divine purpose. the maxi pad on a subjective level has interchangeable value. you could use a maxipad as a hat if you really wanted, they don't always have to be bled on.
much like ice skates. there's a scene from a movie, where a guy is selling ice skates in tibet as a meat cutting tool. you're supposed to jump up and down on your meat. but we use them to ice skate with.
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Drewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: mushroomplume]
#7732527 - 12/08/07 10:17 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
you could use a maxipad as a hat if you really wanted
 maybe drugs aren't right for you.
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Drewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: mushroomplume]
#7732551 - 12/08/07 10:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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but of course you could use an ice skate for cutting meat, but thats why we have commercials to tell us what to use stuff for!
but in all seriousness, ice skates can do many jobs if we put them to it. I guess you could compare this to animals getting sick and not doing what they are supposed to. I know theres a good analogy that I'm missing, but that is the best i can come up with.
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mushroomplume
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7732553 - 12/08/07 10:23 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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haha
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anteyedespirit
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: mushroomplume]
#7732583 - 12/08/07 10:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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drewyann you have seen the word and it is good, haf know enemy
an so i haheard it lahfed:
its all good its alright fuck all day fuck all night
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Drewwyann
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what?
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JackthaTripper
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7732612 - 12/08/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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For something to be considered alive; it must grow, consume sustenance, it must be kinetic (some motion, internal and/or external) and have the capability to reproduce.
Oddly enough Fire has all of these requirements
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AlteredAgain
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i agree with the OP. life need not be strictly biological.
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Lion
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7732917 - 12/08/07 11:57 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think this is a good concept, Drewwyan.
It makes me think about life being without a true-self, though many egos are attached to the idea that there are selves and there is a purpose. The result is the dream of separateness and the illusion of time. People see the commercial and think, "Oh, they're trying to sell me something. In fact, the commercial was the coming together of many self-serving motivations and many unmeasurable factors, and has no intent in and of itself.
(Ok, that was a pretty poor analogy, but meh.)
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Icelander
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: AlteredAgain]
#7732926 - 12/08/07 12:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
AlteredAgain said: i agree with the OP. life need not be strictly biological.
Can you provide evidence to back your belief?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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AlteredAgain
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Icelander]
#7732939 - 12/08/07 12:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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my evidence could mean nothing to you.
it depends on what your definition of life is.
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Icelander
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: AlteredAgain]
#7732965 - 12/08/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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my evidence could mean nothing to you.
Try me.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas

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Quote:
JackthaTripper said: For something to be considered alive; it must grow, consume sustenance, it must be kinetic (some motion, internal and/or external) and have the capability to reproduce.
Oddly enough Fire has all of these requirements
You forgot that it must be composed of cells. Fire has no substance, as it is merely the side-effect of the chemical reaction called combustion. Likewise, commercials do not have a cellular existence of their own, so they are not alive.
Another quality of life is volition, as in an internally-guided ability to act. Neither fire nor TV commercials possess volition.
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Silversoul
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7733073 - 12/08/07 12:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: You forgot that it must be composed of cells.
It was my understanding that biologists still debate whether or not viruses can be considered living. As I understand it, it's not so important what life is composed of. One of the defining characteristics of life is the ability to reproduce.
Quote:
Another quality of life is volition, as in an internally-guided ability to act.
So plants are not alive?
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Drewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7733079 - 12/08/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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By the biological definitions, of course it isn't alive, but in a another sense, it very much is.
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Icelander
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Silversoul]
#7733080 - 12/08/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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They move towards light.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Icelander]
#7733094 - 12/08/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: They move towards light.
By their own volition?
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Veritas

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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Silversoul]
#7733103 - 12/08/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, sweating to reduce temperature.
2. Organization: Being composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
3. Metabolism: Consumption of energy by converting nonliving material into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
4. Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catalysis. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter. The particular species begins to multiply and expand as the evolution continues to flourish.
5. Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
6. Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism when touched to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun or an animal chasing its prey.
7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms. Reproduction can be the division of one cell to form two new cells. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth.
A plant's volition is much simpler than that of an animal, but it still adapts and responds based upon internal qualities. The same cannot be said of fire nor TV commercials.
There has been some controversy over the qualification of a virus, which has all the qualities aside from cellular organization.
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Lion
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7733111 - 12/08/07 12:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
A plant's volition is much simpler than that of an animal, but it still adapts and responds based upon internal qualities. The same cannot be said of fire nor TV commercials.
Doesn't that computer chess program do just the same thing? Is it alive?
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Veritas

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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7733116 - 12/08/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Drewwyann said: By the biological definitions, of course it isn't alive, but in a another sense, it very much is.
Sorry, but life is biological. If you want to discuss life, you cannot differentiate between the "biological definition" and an invented meaning of the word.
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Veritas

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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Lion]
#7733117 - 12/08/07 12:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, a chess program is not alive, as it does not have the OTHER qualities of life.
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Silversoul
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Lion]
#7733118 - 12/08/07 12:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bug said:
Quote:
A plant's volition is much simpler than that of an animal, but it still adapts and responds based upon internal qualities. The same cannot be said of fire nor TV commercials.
Doesn't that computer chess program do just the same thing? Is it alive?
It might be if it could reproduce itself.
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Lion
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Lion]
#7733133 - 12/08/07 12:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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also, doesn't the word volition imply consciousness?
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Veritas

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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Silversoul]
#7733142 - 12/08/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, because then a computer virus program would be considered "life." There are many other properties to consider in defining something as alive.
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shakercee
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7733149 - 12/08/07 12:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I started to think about everything as part of the cycle of life, and part of the larger consciousness, and I started to think to myself that it seems that you don't have to be alive to actually be a living thing.
A TV commercial. It needs to eat, and it needs organs just like we do. Without funding (food), it could not be, without organs (people who organize is) it could not function. It has people that gets the actors, it has people that get the props, it has people who contact the add agency, etc... Much the way we have organs that chew our food, digest food, and make it usable by our bodies.
If a commercial does it's job, more people will buy what it is advertising, and the commercial will, in turn, make more commercials (procreation).
Everything is trying to make it's way.
Yep they are like people too: Make tall claims, irritable, blah blah blah, and you got grin and bear them.
-------------------- Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking. Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc. Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god." - Indian Armed Forces "Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane
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AlteredAgain
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Icelander]
#7733152 - 12/08/07 01:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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How about the indication of the growing organization of linguistic objects, technology, the condensation of language into physical matter?
When you look deep down into the order of biological life, what you see is that essentially it's all information, coded in DNA. Well, machines are coded in memes, ideas, a linguistic equivalent of genes.
Memes compete for survival. They compete to spread their information though a social population in the same ways genes compete to spread their information content through a biological population.
This is not to say that a toaster oven in itself is alive. It's just a linguistic structure playing its role in what can be conceived as a technological organism, the global village.
When I take an encompassing perspective of how these linguistic objects interact as a whole, how they are all connected globally, electro-magnetically, and especially through the internet. I can't help but see a glimpse of what looks like a brain.
What do you think, Ice?
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Veritas

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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Lion]
#7733157 - 12/08/07 01:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, volition is not accurate when describing the actions of non-conscious life. The key idea is that adaptation and responses to stimuli are originated internally.
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Drewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7733162 - 12/08/07 01:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Quote:
Drewwyann said: By the biological definitions, of course it isn't alive, but in a another sense, it very much is.
Sorry, but life is biological. If you want to discuss life, you cannot differentiate between the "biological definition" and an invented meaning of the word.
just because the science of biology says it has to have all of these things to be accepted as living in the scientific and biological community doesn't mean that it isn't alive by some one elses definition.
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Edited by Drewwyann (12/08/07 01:09 PM)
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redtailedhawk
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Icelander]
#7733163 - 12/08/07 01:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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In "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot and in "Beyond the Brain" by Stanislav Grof, both authors describe how awareness could potentially exist in non-organic forms. They even propose the entire Universe could be self-aware in some way. But this goes against the Newtonian-Cartesian worldview we all share so ideas like that can be hard to swallow. But hey, in the old days people would laugh at you if you told them the Earth was a round ball and not flat. Or they would burn you.
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"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7733178 - 12/08/07 01:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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K, let's just all make up our own meaning for different words when it suits us then. Any instances of miscommunication can be resolved by long-winded explanations of our own, personal definitions of the words we've used.
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Drewwyann
Slayer of ticks



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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7733184 - 12/08/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Biology means the study of life. I know that. But biology does not have a monopoly on what people should consider a living thing or not.
Saying a commercial is a living thing is just my take on it. I don't believe it to be a breathing, growing thing with cells, nobody in the right mind would believe that. I simply mean that it can be looked at as alive because of all the parallels it shares with living things.
I believe a living thing literally, to be what biology says it to be, but in a more philosophical sense, i believe it to be any force the so decides to make room for itself. A commercial fits that definition just fine.
I can call something whatever i want. And go ahead and laugh, you are only hurting yourself by being so narrow. I hardly see anything funny about what I'm saying.
would you prefer i call a commercial an entity? or how about i go ahead and make up my own word for it?
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 Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931 Love powerfully  
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7733200 - 12/08/07 01:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Commercials do not decide to do anything, as they are not conscious. Human beings write, produce, act in, film and broadcast commercials. If all humans died today, there would be no more commercials created. If commerce ceased, there would be no more commercials created. If humans chose to stop making commercials, commercials could not do anything about it. Commercials are perpetuated exclusively by human beings, and do not have an independent life of their own.
Sure, entity would be fine, as that merely states that something exists.
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate



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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7733203 - 12/08/07 01:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: K, let's just all make up our own meaning for different words when it suits us then.
I'm truncated that you would even behoove such a notion.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Drewwyann
Slayer of ticks



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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7733210 - 12/08/07 01:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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if you read my first post, i said humans acted as a commercials organs. If your organs were suddenly missing, you would die too.
bug.
Edit: and humans not wanting commercials anymore would be compared to organ failure, or possibly even to survival of the fittest if you so wanted.
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 Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931 Love powerfully  
Edited by Drewwyann (12/08/07 01:16 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7733216 - 12/08/07 01:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm just wondering if something has to be considered "living" in order to be an "organism." For example, in Gaia theory, James Lovelock posits the idea of the earth as an organism. It seems to have many of the traits of life that are listed, but obviously does not have the ability to reproduce.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7733222 - 12/08/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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My organs did not create me. They are part of me. Commercials are merely a human activity. 
Eh, whatever works for you, I guess.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7733225 - 12/08/07 01:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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i comprehend your analogies.
perhaps we shouldn't call them life, but just say that they are living,
not in the sense of breathing, but pulsing, radiating,
emerging, unfolding, and collapsing.
or maybe just chuck all definitions, and just watch them happening.
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Drewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7733226 - 12/08/07 01:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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but organs did create you. Your parents are just big old bags of organs waiting to have a baby.
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 Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931 Love powerfully  
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Veritas

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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Silversoul]
#7733227 - 12/08/07 01:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Organism
1. An individual form of life, such as a plant, animal, bacterium, protist, or fungus; a body made up of organs, organelles, or other parts that work together to carry on the various processes of life. 2. A system regarded as analogous in its structure or functions to a living body: the social organism.
Lovelock was probably referring to the second definition of the word.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
#7733233 - 12/08/07 01:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Drewwyann said: but organs did create you. Your parents are just big old bags of organs waiting to have a baby.
Nope, that just doesn't work. Perhaps if you said that DNA created me AND my organs, and used the analogy of humans as the DNA of commercials.
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Drewwyann
Slayer of ticks



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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7733259 - 12/08/07 01:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You have a point there.
I do believe after this thread, I will use the world 'organism' rather than 'living'. You are right in the sense that I shouldn't taint the word.
You pose some fine arguments.
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daytripper23
?


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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7733294 - 12/08/07 01:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Which came first the organ or the organism?
Anyways I support this analogy, sounds wattsonian.
The biological labels of life/existence/consciousness, do not seem to do a great job defining them. there are certain sketchynesses that are apparent, the one that is always mentioned, is viruses. Im sure there are more, but i am not scientifically inclined.
(Whoever mentioned fire...awesome!)
The biggest problem, is that it does not explain how things come into being. Is Carbon alive?
Poof! Life!
I dont know whats more interesting, sudden coming of being, or gradual realization of being.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: redtailedhawk]
#7733311 - 12/08/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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(to AlteredAgain also)
I am open to the possibility but would need some experience of it to get serious about it. I don't have much faith in definitions of reality anymore so I am open to a different belief system but I still want evidence I can believe in.
Quote:
redtailedhawk said: In "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot and in "Beyond the Brain" by Stanislav Grof, both authors describe how awareness could potentially exist in non-organic forms. They even propose the entire Universe could be self-aware in some way. But this goes against the Newtonian-Cartesian worldview we all share so ideas like that can be hard to swallow. But hey, in the old days people would laugh at you if you told them the Earth was a round ball and not flat. Or they would burn you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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JackthaTripper
MSME!



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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7734036 - 12/08/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Quote:
JackthaTripper said: For something to be considered alive; it must grow, consume sustenance, it must be kinetic (some motion, internal and/or external) and have the capability to reproduce.
Oddly enough Fire has all of these requirements
You forgot that it must be composed of cells. Fire has no substance, as it is merely the side-effect of the chemical reaction called combustion. Likewise, commercials do not have a cellular existence of their own, so they are not alive.
Another quality of life is volition, as in an internally-guided ability to act. Neither fire nor TV commercials possess volition.
How would you explain the following examples as they both seem to violate the criteria for life you described?: In the case of artificial intelligence no cells would be present. (although currently just a theory, a great deal of the scientific community thinks in the future it will happen, given enough time)
A severely mentally handicapped person (say in a coma) does not have volition, as they would not posses the internal ability to act.
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Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host
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Boots
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No, they're not. They're just easily compared to a living organism.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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First example is speculative so is not an example.
Second example the volition is internal and consists of automatic life functions.
Try again.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Drewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Boots]
#7735800 - 12/09/07 09:17 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Boots said: No, they're not. They're just easily compared to a living organism.
well we sure didn't skim over the thread.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Artificial intelligence does not constitute life, as it does not share the other properties I have already posted. Just as a computer is not alive, no matter how complex its' programming. 
A person who has become incapacitated is still identified as life because they are categorized by their type of organism, and not by their current state of being. Until they die, they are still considered alive. Something which is not categorized as a type of biological life, however, can never become alive.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7736325 - 12/09/07 12:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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What are you wearing?
(is this off topic? )
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (12/09/07 12:03 PM)
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Veritas

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Posts: 11,089
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Icelander]
#7736387 - 12/09/07 12:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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My "Matrix" t-shirt, of course. Why do you ask?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
#7736390 - 12/09/07 12:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Something which is not categorized as a type of biological life, however, can never become alive.
Take THAT, Dr. Frankenstein!
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Silversoul]
#7736408 - 12/09/07 12:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hmmm...that raises an interesting question, actually. Since the components of Frankenstein's monster were mostly human, and the monster's heart was "re" started by a jolt of electricity, would the monster be considered alive? If not, would a person who received an organ transplant? What about someone who died and was brought back to life with CPR or paddles?
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