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Offlineshakercee
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7733149 - 12/08/07 12:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I started to think about everything as part of the cycle of life, and part of the larger consciousness, and I started to think to myself that it seems that you don't have to be alive to actually be a living thing.

A TV commercial. It needs to eat, and it needs organs just like we do. Without funding (food), it could not be, without organs (people who organize is) it could not function. It has people that gets the actors, it has people that get the props, it has people who contact the add agency, etc... Much the way we have organs that chew our food, digest food, and make it usable by our bodies.

If a commercial does it's job, more people will buy what it is advertising, and the commercial will, in turn, make more commercials (procreation).

Everything is trying to make it's way. :thumbup:




Yep they are like people too: Make tall claims, irritable, blah blah blah, and you got grin and bear them.


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Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Icelander]
    #7733152 - 12/08/07 01:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

How about the indication of the growing organization of linguistic objects, technology, the condensation of language into physical matter?

When you look deep down into the order of biological life, what you see is that essentially it's all information, coded in DNA. Well, machines are coded in memes, ideas, a linguistic equivalent of genes.

Memes compete for survival. They compete to spread their information though a social population in the same ways genes compete to spread their information content through a biological population.

This is not to say that a toaster oven in itself is alive. It's just a linguistic structure playing its role in what can be conceived as a technological organism, the global village.

When I take an encompassing perspective of how these linguistic objects interact as a whole, how they are all connected globally, electro-magnetically, and especially through the internet. I can't help but see a glimpse of what looks like a brain.

What do you think, Ice?


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Lion]
    #7733157 - 12/08/07 01:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, volition is not accurate when describing the actions of non-conscious life. The key idea is that adaptation and responses to stimuli are originated internally.


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
    #7733162 - 12/08/07 01:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

Drewwyann said:
By the biological definitions, of course it isn't alive, but in a another sense, it very much is.




Sorry, but life is biological.  If you want to discuss life, you cannot differentiate between the "biological definition" and an invented meaning of the word.  :rolleyes:




just because the science of biology says it has to have all of these things to be accepted as living in the scientific and biological community doesn't mean that it isn't alive by some one elses definition.


--------------------


Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931

Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:


Edited by Drewwyann (12/08/07 01:09 PM)


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Invisibleredtailedhawk
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Icelander]
    #7733163 - 12/08/07 01:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

In "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot and in "Beyond the Brain" by Stanislav Grof, both authors describe how awareness could potentially exist in non-organic forms. They even propose the entire Universe could be self-aware in some way. But this goes against the Newtonian-Cartesian worldview we all share so ideas like that can be hard to swallow. But hey, in the old days people would laugh at you if you told them the Earth was a round ball and not flat. Or they would burn you.


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"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7733178 - 12/08/07 01:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

K, let's just all make up our own meaning for different words when it suits us then.  Any instances of miscommunication can be resolved by long-winded explanations of our own, personal definitions of the words we've used.  :lol:


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
    #7733184 - 12/08/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Biology means the study of life. I know that. But biology does not have a monopoly on what people should consider a living thing or not.

Saying a commercial is a living thing is just my take on it. I don't believe it to be a breathing, growing thing with cells, nobody in the right mind would believe that. I simply mean that it can be looked at as alive because of all the parallels it shares with living things.

I believe a living thing literally, to be what biology says it to be, but in a more philosophical sense, i believe it to be any force the so decides to make room for itself. A commercial fits that definition just fine.

I can call something whatever i want. And go ahead and laugh, you are only hurting yourself by being so narrow. I hardly see anything funny about what I'm saying.

would you prefer i call a commercial an entity? or how about i go ahead and make up my own word for it?


--------------------


Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931

Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7733200 - 12/08/07 01:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Commercials do not decide to do anything, as they are not conscious. Human beings write, produce, act in, film and broadcast commercials. If all humans died today, there would be no more commercials created. If commerce ceased, there would be no more commercials created. If humans chose to stop making commercials, commercials could not do anything about it. Commercials are perpetuated exclusively by human beings, and do not have an independent life of their own.

Sure, entity would be fine, as that merely states that something exists.


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OfflineLion
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
    #7733203 - 12/08/07 01:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
K, let's just all make up our own meaning for different words when it suits us then.


I'm truncated that you would even behoove such a notion. :mad2:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
    #7733210 - 12/08/07 01:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

if you read my first post, i said humans acted as a commercials organs. If your organs were suddenly missing, you would die too.

:lol: bug.

Edit: and humans not wanting commercials anymore would be compared to organ failure, or possibly even to survival of the fittest if you so wanted.


--------------------


Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931

Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:


Edited by Drewwyann (12/08/07 01:16 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
    #7733216 - 12/08/07 01:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm just wondering if something has to be considered "living" in order to be an "organism." For example, in Gaia theory, James Lovelock posits the idea of the earth as an organism. It seems to have many of the traits of life that are listed, but obviously does not have the ability to reproduce.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7733222 - 12/08/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

My organs did not create me.  They are part of me.  Commercials are merely a human activity.  :shrug:

Eh, whatever works for you, I guess.


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7733225 - 12/08/07 01:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i comprehend your analogies.

perhaps we shouldn't call them life,
but just say that they are living,

not in the sense of breathing,
but pulsing, radiating,

emerging, unfolding, and collapsing.

or maybe just chuck all definitions,
and just watch them happening.

:mushroom2:


--------------------


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
    #7733226 - 12/08/07 01:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

but organs did create you. Your parents are just big old bags of organs waiting to have a baby.


--------------------


Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931

Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Silversoul]
    #7733227 - 12/08/07 01:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Organism

1. An individual form of life, such as a plant, animal, bacterium, protist, or fungus; a body made up of organs, organelles, or other parts that work together to carry on the various processes of life.

2. A system regarded as analogous in its structure or functions to a living body: the social organism.




Lovelock was probably referring to the second definition of the word.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7733233 - 12/08/07 01:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Drewwyann said:
but organs did create you. Your parents are just big old bags of organs waiting to have a baby.




:lol:  Nope, that just doesn't work.  Perhaps if you said that DNA created me AND my organs, and used the analogy of humans as the DNA of commercials.  :shrug:


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
    #7733259 - 12/08/07 01:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You have a point there.

I do believe after this thread, I will use the world 'organism' rather than 'living'. You are right in the sense that I shouldn't taint the word.

You pose some fine arguments. :thumbup:


--------------------


Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931

Love powerfully :peace::heart::peace:


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
    #7733294 - 12/08/07 01:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Which came first the organ or the organism?:tongue2:

Anyways I support this analogy, sounds wattsonian. :cheer:

The biological labels of life/existence/consciousness, do not seem to do a great job defining them. there are certain sketchynesses that are apparent, the one that is always mentioned, is viruses. Im sure there are more, but i am not scientifically inclined.

(Whoever mentioned fire...awesome!) 

The biggest problem, is that it does not explain how things come into being. Is Carbon alive?

Poof! Life!

I dont know whats more interesting, sudden coming of being, or gradual realization of being.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #7733311 - 12/08/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

(to AlteredAgain also)

I am open to the possibility but would need some experience of it to get serious about it. I don't have much faith in definitions of reality anymore so I am open to a different belief system but I still want evidence I can believe in.

Quote:

redtailedhawk said:
In "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot and in "Beyond the Brain" by Stanislav Grof, both authors describe how awareness could potentially exist in non-organic forms. They even propose the entire Universe could be self-aware in some way. But this goes against the Newtonian-Cartesian worldview we all share so ideas like that can be hard to swallow. But hey, in the old days people would laugh at you if you told them the Earth was a round ball and not flat. Or they would burn you.




--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleJackthaTripper
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Re: TV commercials are people too [Re: Veritas]
    #7734036 - 12/08/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

JackthaTripper said:
For something to be considered alive; it must grow, consume sustenance, it must be kinetic (some motion, internal and/or external) and have the  capability to reproduce.

Oddly enough Fire has all of these requirements :strokebeard:




You forgot that it must be composed of cells.  Fire has no substance, as it is merely the side-effect of the chemical reaction called combustion.  Likewise, commercials do not have a cellular existence of their own, so they are not alive.

Another quality of life is volition, as in an internally-guided ability to act.  Neither fire nor TV commercials possess volition.





How would you explain the following examples as they both seem to violate the criteria for life you described?:
 
In the case of artificial intelligence no cells would be present.  (although currently just a theory, a great deal of the scientific community thinks in the future it will happen, given enough time)

A severely mentally handicapped person (say in a coma) does not have volition, as they would not posses the internal ability to act.


--------------------


Come on breakthrough with me...such wonders terrify the soul...it's real no need to question...knowledge infiltrates the host


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