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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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God is not real.
#7726834 - 12/06/07 11:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Prove me wrong. This is not to start an argument, it is to start a debate. Ready...GO!
Above is the original content of this post, this edit is because it apparently caused mass confusion. Here is an explanation to avoid any newcomers from meeting to the same fate.
- By "God" I mean any "thinking, supernatural force" not biblical necessarily, but it has to be "thinking" - - Please for the love of whatever god, don't ask me to define "thinking". Assume I mean dictionary definitions. - - I don't REALLY expect anyone to "PROVE" anything, wrong choice of words I guess. This was my mistake. It was meant to cause a disturbance, but apparently it pissed people the fuck off. - - to everyone who said, or is about to say "You prove he doesn't", science is constantly asked to "prove" everything, I just flipped the question. Apparently this is unacceptable. It's pretty much a playfully sarcastic way of asking for opinions. I guess these things don't translate well to the internet. Have a nice day. Fucking dirty hippies.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
Edited by Muffin (12/07/07 02:28 PM)
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726835 - 12/06/07 11:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: Prove me wrong. This is not to start an argument, it is to start a debate. Ready...GO!
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726836 - 12/06/07 11:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your Mom.
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Varman
Stranger




Registered: 07/16/06
Posts: 168
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726843 - 12/06/07 11:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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What If I think you are right?
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"Its A circular vortex..."
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Varman]
#7726849 - 12/06/07 11:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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well then you are right too.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader



Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,617
Loc: Straight Outta Compton
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726863 - 12/06/07 11:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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God is real cuz the Bible says so..duh!! You can't get any more pr00f than that mutha fucka!!!!
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726870 - 12/06/07 11:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Um, excuse me, but if God isn't real then wtf did Jesus come from? You lose, lawl wut.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726876 - 12/06/07 11:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well what is the definition of the 'God' you speak of? The Christian version or some sort of higher consciousness that we can not even begin to commprhend?
Maybe before you show us all you are a fucking retard you would like to elaborate?? Do you just completely lack faith in any sort of governing force or higher poweer/consciousness in the universe or what?
EXPLAIN mother fucker, explain.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Disco Cat]
#7726881 - 12/06/07 11:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
God is real cuz the Bible says so..duh!! You can't get any more pr00f than that mutha fucka!!!!
You laugh, but I have actually heard this argument before. It went something like, "God is real because the bible says so, and the bible is the word of God, so it cannot be wrong." I almost killed myself.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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skateordont
I'm just a rockn roll clown

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 399
Loc: Flander's Fields, eh!
Last seen: 11 years, 6 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Tangerines]
#7726884 - 12/06/07 11:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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The christian one, theres no other god, loser
-------------------- My recipe for a good time:
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader



Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,617
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Tangerines]
#7726889 - 12/06/07 11:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tangerines said: Well what is the definition of the 'God' you speak of? The Christian version or some sort of higher consciousness that we can not even begin to commprhend?
Maybe before you show us all you are a fucking retard you would like to elaborate?? Do you just completely lack faith in any sort of governing force or higher poweer/consciousness in the universe or what?
EXPLAIN mother fucker, explain.
SOUNDS LIKE SOME1 NEEDZ SOME CHEEZ-ITZ!!!
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skateordont
I'm just a rockn roll clown

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 399
Loc: Flander's Fields, eh!
Last seen: 11 years, 6 days
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you know got is really cause of kittens and missionary position. at the same time, of course.
-------------------- My recipe for a good time:
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726897 - 12/06/07 11:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, the truthful answer is that you first need to define the confines for your definition of God, then we need to analyze whether these attribute exist in the universe or not - that is if they're within our scope of measurement. If you just answer "the God of the bible" then you're essentially saying you don't know what the piss you're talking about, because that's not an explanatory answer, and gives us nothing to work with.
If I say God is universal consciousness, goodness, and truth, then I can claim that those things are real, and so God is then real.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Disco Cat]
#7726900 - 12/06/07 11:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Disco Cat said: Yeah, the truthful answer is that you first need to define the confines for your definition of God, then we need to analyze whether these attribute exist in the universe or not - that is if they're within our scope of measurement. If you just answer "the God of the bible" then you're essentially saying you don't know what the piss you're talking about, because that's not an explanatory answer, and gives us nothing to work with.
If I say God is universal consciousness, goodness, and truth, then I can claim that those things are real, and so God is then real.
word, that i what i was tryin to say
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Disco Cat]
#7726910 - 12/06/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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OK, holy shit, its a simple fucking concept, replace the word god with "deity" or "higher power" or "universal consciousness" or whatever the fuck else you can pull out of your ass and go from there.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726913 - 12/06/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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well then yes, there is.
edit: and no, it is not a simple concept. It is so complex we cannot even understand the forces that surround us.
Edited by Tangerines (12/06/07 11:54 PM)
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726915 - 12/06/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also, I am still right.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726917 - 12/06/07 11:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't ask if you believe it, I said PROVE me wrong. There are plenty of tards out there who believe it. I issued a challenge.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726921 - 12/06/07 11:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Prove me there is no higher power.
you wanted a debate numbnuts.
Edited by Tangerines (12/06/07 11:56 PM)
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razmablues
Biologist




Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 2,403
Loc: OrangeCounty
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726926 - 12/06/07 11:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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i am god. and yes, i do exist, and yes, i just did prove you wrong.
-------------------- soft silly music is meaningful, magical
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726935 - 12/07/07 12:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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That things are tied together on higher levels and in ways we don't yet understand is a given. If I replace "God" with "higher power" then this becomes a silly debate because to argue otherwise would be senile. Sounds like this falls into the category of "you don't know what the piss you're talking about." How about you start by proving your case that there's no governing force in the universe that ties all things together?
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Disco Cat]
#7726940 - 12/07/07 12:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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There is no arguing with him. he is as bad as those damn evangelicals lol!
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inv3rse
OP-4Warez/0day-warezon Rizon



Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 312
Loc: Denver, CO
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Tangerines]
#7726945 - 12/07/07 12:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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"God" is real. What, you never watched CNN? lol
-------------------- "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." "Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Five years later? Six? It seems like a lifetime, or at least a main era - -the kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run, but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant." Hunter S. Thompson.
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader



Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,617
Loc: Straight Outta Compton
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Re: God is not real. [Re: inv3rse]
#7726946 - 12/07/07 12:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well Bill O'Reilly said so, so therefore God is real cuz Bill is c0000l!!
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726947 - 12/07/07 12:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: Prove me wrong. This is not to start an argument, it is to start a debate. Ready...GO!
You made the claim. It's up to you to prove it.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: razmablues]
#7726948 - 12/07/07 12:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, and I specified, not an argument, but you got all pissy like a big fat vagina. Quote:
Prove me there is no higher power.
you wanted a debate numbnuts.
It doesn't work that way, you don't prove something DOESN'T exist. You prove it does. I could say, "Prove to me the universe wasn't created by the spice girls." but that would be retarded wouldn't it?
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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ShiVersblood
VAmPiRES HELLA ❤


Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 115,620
Loc: United States of America
Last seen: 1 hour, 12 minutes
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Re: God is not real. [Re: inv3rse]
#7726951 - 12/07/07 12:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why doesn't God send an updated Bible for modern man. The old one gets lost in translation and culture confusion. A little food for thought.
-------------------- Retiro Equipaje. Mas uno por favor Cerveza, es mas fina. Psalm 706:6
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726956 - 12/07/07 12:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: Yes, and I specified, not an argument, but you got all pissy like a big fat vagina. Quote:
Prove me there is no higher power.
you wanted a debate numbnuts.
It doesn't work that way, you don't prove something DOESN'T exist. You prove it does. I could say, "Prove to me the universe wasn't created by the spice girls." but that would be retarded wouldn't it?
yea, about as retarded as your question.
And sir, I believe you arer the one with the sandy vajayay.
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader



Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,617
Loc: Straight Outta Compton
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Quote:
ShiVersblood said: Why doesn't God send an updated Bible for modern man. The old one gets lost in translation and culture confusion. A little food for thought.
Cuz he doesn't wanna duhhh!!!
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726963 - 12/07/07 12:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: Yes, and I specified, not an argument, but you got all pissy like a big fat vagina. Quote:
Prove me there is no higher power.
you wanted a debate numbnuts.
It doesn't work that way, you don't prove something DOESN'T exist. You prove it does. I could say, "Prove to me the universe wasn't created by the spice girls." but that would be retarded wouldn't it?
you know curses were once believed in. People had to PROOVE they do NOT exist. and dragons lawl.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
ShiVersblood said: Why doesn't God send an updated Bible for modern man. The old one gets lost in translation and culture confusion. A little food for thought.
Something like this?
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader



Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,617
Loc: Straight Outta Compton
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Tangerines]
#7726968 - 12/07/07 12:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tangerines said:
Quote:
Muffin said: Yes, and I specified, not an argument, but you got all pissy like a big fat vagina. Quote:
Prove me there is no higher power.
you wanted a debate numbnuts.
It doesn't work that way, you don't prove something DOESN'T exist. You prove it does. I could say, "Prove to me the universe wasn't created by the spice girls." but that would be retarded wouldn't it?
yea, about as retarded as your question.
And sir, I believe you arer the one with the sandy vajayay.
Oprah patented the term "vajayay" so fuck off!!!
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: razmablues]
#7726969 - 12/07/07 12:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I said
Quote:
Prove me wrong. This is not to start an argument, it is to start a debate. Ready...GO!
Then you said.
Quote:
Well what is the definition of the 'God' you speak of? The Christian version or some sort of higher consciousness that we can not even begin to commprhend?
Maybe before you show us all you are a fucking retard you would like to elaborate?? Do you just completely lack faith in any sort of governing force or higher poweer/consciousness in the universe or what?
EXPLAIN mother fucker, explain.
I guess that makes me the asshole?
And what about my question is retarded?
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
Edited by Muffin (12/07/07 12:13 AM)
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Liquid_Dimension
Lighthousekeeper



Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 4,413
Loc: Radioactive state
Last seen: 9 days, 8 hours
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726974 - 12/07/07 12:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Purple monkey dishwasher.
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ShiVersblood
VAmPiRES HELLA ❤


Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 115,620
Loc: United States of America
Last seen: 1 hour, 12 minutes
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Silversoul]
#7726976 - 12/07/07 12:13 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
ShiVersblood said: Why doesn't God send an updated Bible for modern man. The old one gets lost in translation and culture confusion. A little food for thought.
Something like this?
The only problem with that book is it sends you instantly to hell, according to the Christian religion.
-------------------- Retiro Equipaje. Mas uno por favor Cerveza, es mas fina. Psalm 706:6
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726980 - 12/07/07 12:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: Yes, and I specified, not an argument, but you got all pissy like a big fat vagina. Quote:
Prove me there is no higher power.
you wanted a debate numbnuts.
It doesn't work that way, you don't prove something DOESN'T exist. You prove it does. I could say, "Prove to me the universe wasn't created by the spice girls." but that would be retarded wouldn't it?
Yes you can prove that something doesn't exist. That you can't is a profoundly illogical quote, which I think originated on South Park, and has been making the rounds ever since. If you couldn't prove that something doesn't exist, then it'd be impossible to prove what anything actually is. I can prove that my desk is made of wood and not of rubber by having a definition of what wood and rubber are, and observing that the qualities of wood are present while the qualities of rubber are not. I can prove that the titanic is not floating above my house by observing that that which is defined as the titanic is not be be found above my house. I can prove that there is no apple in my hand simply because I have a concept for what an apple is, and it isn't to be found in my hand.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Also, yes, I completely lack faith in any governing force. Read a fucking book besides the Bible.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726985 - 12/07/07 12:16 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can prove that he is...
-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726988 - 12/07/07 12:17 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: Also, yes, I completely lack faith in any governing force. Read a fucking book besides the Bible.
I guess we shouldn't read science books either, because they teach us all about governing forces in the universe.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726989 - 12/07/07 12:17 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: It doesn't work that way, you don't prove something DOESN'T exist. You prove it does.
No, the way it works is that if you ANY claim, positive or negative, the burden of proof is on you. Making a statement and then saying "prove me wrong" is a chickenshit cop-out.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726993 - 12/07/07 12:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You are terrible at this, you know that? You need to actually expand on your thoughts. So you think there is an absence of all higher powers just because it cannot be proved.
Now I hate what the bible people preach. I DO believe it teaches good morels about how to live, but sometimes people take it way to literally. its a symbolic book.
I DO believe that since this universe is infinite, there is practically an infinite amount of knowledge, us knowing .oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo1%. or less. Obviously extremely past our intellegence level. We simply cannot understand the majority of the universe. Theories suggest there are some 20+ dimensions. We know 4: spapce+time. What are these other dimensions and how the fuck do they affect us? We simply do NOT know.
We live in complete uncertainty and to think there is no 'higher governing power' is just ignorant. Gravity itself is a recently new concept.
Have you read anything and tried to understand 5+ dimensions??? it is the hardest thing to fucking understand I swear to God. Even 4 dimensions are hard to understand as in how gravity afects time etc. i am getting off topic, but please do not just be black/white about it.
"no there is nothing"="the bible is 100% real"
There is a HUGE fucking gray area. And we know practically nothing of it.
Peace yo
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726998 - 12/07/07 12:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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have a
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Skunk420



Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 18,524
Loc: inside
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7726999 - 12/07/07 12:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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prove he doesnt exist!..kill yourself and see if you embrace god when you die!
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: razmablues]
#7727000 - 12/07/07 12:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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this is like asking for an arguement.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Tangerines]
#7727001 - 12/07/07 12:21 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I DO believe it teaches good morels about how to live
Mmmmm...morels....
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Tangerines]
#7727002 - 12/07/07 12:21 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think if we studied a petri dish and watched the organisms grow and compete we'd learn a lot about ourselves.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Silversoul]
#7727004 - 12/07/07 12:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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lol. Im drunk and did not want to post that much. But I felt this ignorant scumfuck needed it.
i want some morels, fuck morals!
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Skunk420



Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 18,524
Loc: inside
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
#7727006 - 12/07/07 12:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cheezit said: I think if we studied a petri dish and watched the organisms grow and compete we'd learn a lot about ourselves.
um okay like sea monkeys?
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
#7727009 - 12/07/07 12:23 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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culture is individualities ultimate enemy.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
#7727013 - 12/07/07 12:24 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cheezit said: I think if we studied a petri dish and watched the organisms grow and compete we'd learn a lot about ourselves.
ha yea. Like in the matrix maaaaaaahn, we are a VIRUS. Agent Smith said so
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Tangerines]
#7727015 - 12/07/07 12:24 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Show me proof that god exists and I will embrace him unto my arms.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727017 - 12/07/07 12:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, logic it is. We'll start with false logic. I used this definition the other day, so here it is again.
Ad hominem: An ad hominem argument is any that attempts to counter anothers claims or conclusions by attacking the person, rather than addressing the argument itself.
Here is another form of false logic
Ad ignorantiam: The argument from ignorance basically states that a specific belief is true because we don't know that it isn't true.
Confusing currently unexplained with unexplainable: Because we do not currently have an adequate explanation for a phenomenon does not mean that it is forever unexplainable, or that it therefore defies the laws of nature or requires a paranormal explanation. An example of this is the "God of the Gapsâ" strategy of creationists that whatever we cannot currently explain is unexplainable and was therefore an act of god.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Skunk420]
#7727019 - 12/07/07 12:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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um no not like sea monkeys.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Quote:
TurntableJunky said: Show me proof that god exists and I will embrace him unto my arms.
Was this response to me? I never said God existed. I simple said there is too much unknown in the universe to dismiss some higher governing body.
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DeathCompany
Oneironaut



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 12,662
Loc: Somewhere in my head
Last seen: 9 months, 29 days
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Quote:
ShiVersblood said: Why doesn't God send an updated Bible for modern man. The old one gets lost in translation and culture confusion. A little food for thought.
Because hes to busy wankin off to even consider writing a revision let alone having a free hand.
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Tangerines]
#7727030 - 12/07/07 12:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Only you define what we are. We can be a virus, we could be symbiotic, we could be a pathogen, we could be ?. What roll do you want to play on this earth like cell?
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727031 - 12/07/07 12:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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wow man you are missing the point. I am just trying to say we know nothing. So we cannot assume anything i.e. that a 'god' does not exist. It very well could or could not. arguing is stupid because there will never be an end. we can't argue what we do not know, by that point it becomes faith that we are arguing.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
#7727032 - 12/07/07 12:29 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cheezit said: Only you define what we are. We can be a virus, we could be symbiotic, we could be a pathogen, we could be ?. What roll do you want to play on this earth like cell?
I wanna be a cheez-it.
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Skunk420



Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 18,524
Loc: inside
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Quote:
TurntableJunky said: Show me proof that god exists and I will embrace him unto my arms.
kill yourself and come back to life..then tell us what you see.
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Disco Cat]
#7727036 - 12/07/07 12:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Disco Cat said:
Quote:
Muffin said: Yes, and I specified, not an argument, but you got all pissy like a big fat vagina. Quote:
Prove me there is no higher power.
you wanted a debate numbnuts.
It doesn't work that way, you don't prove something DOESN'T exist. You prove it does. I could say, "Prove to me the universe wasn't created by the spice girls." but that would be retarded wouldn't it?
Yes you can prove that something doesn't exist. That you can't is a profoundly illogical quote, which I think originated on South Park, and has been making the rounds ever since. If you couldn't prove that something doesn't exist, then it'd be impossible to prove what anything actually is. I can prove that my desk is made of wood and not of rubber by having a definition of what wood and rubber are, and observing that the qualities of wood are present while the qualities of rubber are not. I can prove that the titanic is not floating above my house by observing that that which is defined as the titanic is not be be found above my house. I can prove that there is no apple in my hand simply because I have a concept for what an apple is, and it isn't to be found in my hand.
Quote:
Disco Cat said:
Quote:
Muffin said: Also, yes, I completely lack faith in any governing force. Read a fucking book besides the Bible.
I guess we shouldn't read science books either, because they teach us all about governing forces in the universe.
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Skunk420



Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 18,524
Loc: inside
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
#7727039 - 12/07/07 12:32 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cheezit said: um no not like sea monkeys.
um yes like them!
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Disco Cat]
#7727042 - 12/07/07 12:33 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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there is no arguing with him. He is being illogical and does not understand that we understand literally nothing...it is sad. Opposite a evangelicast....same magnitude tho.
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader



Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,617
Loc: Straight Outta Compton
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Tangerines]
#7727043 - 12/07/07 12:33 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tangerines said:
Quote:
Cheezit said: Only you define what we are. We can be a virus, we could be symbiotic, we could be a pathogen, we could be ?. What roll do you want to play on this earth like cell?
I wanna be a cheez-it.
D00D YOU FOUND THE MEANING OF LIFE!! EMBRACE YOUR CHEEZ-ITZ'NESS!!!!!
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Skunk420]
#7727049 - 12/07/07 12:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Skunk420 said:
Quote:
Cheezit said: um no not like sea monkeys.
um yes like them!
have a cupcake
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
#7727051 - 12/07/07 12:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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im disappointed that nobody agreed with the banana theory....
-------------------- Jesus loves you.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Disco Cat]
#7727053 - 12/07/07 12:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Disco Cat said:
Quote:
Disco Cat said:
Quote:
Muffin said: Yes, and I specified, not an argument, but you got all pissy like a big fat vagina. Quote:
Prove me there is no higher power.
you wanted a debate numbnuts.
It doesn't work that way, you don't prove something DOESN'T exist. You prove it does. I could say, "Prove to me the universe wasn't created by the spice girls." but that would be retarded wouldn't it?
Yes you can prove that something doesn't exist. That you can't is a profoundly illogical quote, which I think originated on South Park, and has been making the rounds ever since. If you couldn't prove that something doesn't exist, then it'd be impossible to prove what anything actually is. I can prove that my desk is made of wood and not of rubber by having a definition of what wood and rubber are, and observing that the qualities of wood are present while the qualities of rubber are not. I can prove that the titanic is not floating above my house by observing that that which is defined as the titanic is not be be found above my house. I can prove that there is no apple in my hand simply because I have a concept for what an apple is, and it isn't to be found in my hand.
Quote:
Disco Cat said:
Quote:
Muffin said: Also, yes, I completely lack faith in any governing force. Read a fucking book besides the Bible.
I guess we shouldn't read science books either, because they teach us all about governing forces in the universe.
pwnded
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Tangerines]
#7727055 - 12/07/07 12:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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heh
--------------------
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: andrewss]
#7727057 - 12/07/07 12:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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make like a banana and split?
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Skunk420]
#7727060 - 12/07/07 12:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Infinite, sure, time, space, blah, blah, yeah, I saw the shows on NOVA too. I am not saying there is NO POSSIBILITY that there is no higher power. I am saying the chances are almost INFINITLY small. Anything "CAN" exist outside our range of CURRENT knowledge. That doesn't mean it does. Seems like a bit of a stretch to me. I ask for proof, So almost EVERYONE here answered my question with a question. This is what I get every time I talk about religion. (This and arrogant fucktards who have to get all personal.) I guess debate is a lost art, too many internet tough-guys. So the conversation turns to "You!, No you!, No you!." and nothing is learnt.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727064 - 12/07/07 12:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Braggart in attack, a weakling in defence
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727065 - 12/07/07 12:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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So what is this higher power you speak of? What does it exactly do? I'd like to understand if you'd like to esplaine.
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DeathCompany
Oneironaut



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 12,662
Loc: Somewhere in my head
Last seen: 9 months, 29 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727067 - 12/07/07 12:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727068 - 12/07/07 12:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ever notice how an ignorant person thinks everything he does know important, and he tells it to everybody
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727072 - 12/07/07 12:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Also, yes, I completely lack faith in any governing force. Read a fucking book besides the Bible.
I guess we shouldn't read science books either, because they teach us all about governing forces in the universe.
Yeah, cause thats the type of governing force we're talking about. Using a play on words doesn't prove anything. Were talking about thinking deities, not gravity. I thought that much would be obvious.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727076 - 12/07/07 12:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I usually just let them talk and end up looking at the pretty ladies across from the bar.
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727077 - 12/07/07 12:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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answer my question if you so would please.
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727081 - 12/07/07 12:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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What governing force and how does it relate? The law of gravity? eh?
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727083 - 12/07/07 12:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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wait who is talking about thinking dieties? I am talking about 'God' as an unknown power. Before we knew what gravity was, i would say that is 'god' etc. It does not to need to be thinking, alive or whatever. See I told you you need to explain your definition of 'God.' Yur definition and mine are totally different.
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inv3rse
OP-4Warez/0day-warezon Rizon



Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 312
Loc: Denver, CO
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727086 - 12/07/07 12:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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nice.
-------------------- "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." "Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Five years later? Six? It seems like a lifetime, or at least a main era - -the kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run, but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant." Hunter S. Thompson.
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
#7727095 - 12/07/07 12:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Orgone energy? Dark Matter? Some other energy? Radiation from the sun? Outside the sun? Within the heart? Without a heart? Who what when where why how much?
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: inv3rse]
#7727102 - 12/07/07 12:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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...I am takling about a THINKING force. Intelligence is key. There are of course governing forces that work together to create everything taht has been created. I am speaking of a designer. To me a "God" is not physics, or math, or biology. People don't usually worship gravity. "God" as defined by Google: # the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in ... # deity: any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force # a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people; "he was a god among men" # idol: a material effigy that is worshipped; "thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"; "money was his god"
--------------------
Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727104 - 12/07/07 12:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said:Were talking about thinking deities, not gravity. I thought that much would be obvious.
I'm not to well versed on this hear religion stuff but I think if you want to examine the essence and meat of it you should look at what these deities were representing. To me the what has always been more important.
I'd call the what god.
Are you a relativist?
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727109 - 12/07/07 12:53 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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My definition is not Googles definition lol. Its my own. You should have clarified yourself about our view of God. No I cannot prove yours, though it is certainly possible. I can, however prove my version. Its ll in the context.
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727111 - 12/07/07 12:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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ever hear of trial and error?
Can't believe you use google for answers on subjects so subjective.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727112 - 12/07/07 12:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: People don't usually worship gravity.
Pythagoreans?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727113 - 12/07/07 12:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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And how do you define intelligence? According to certain interpretations of Gaia theory, nature can be considered intelligent(it certainly behaves like a living organism).
--------------------
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727115 - 12/07/07 12:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sure I don't worship gravity. I never said I did. I said I believe God is a force just like gravity. Something we could not explain a long time ago. Now we know everything about it. all in all
knowledge=God.
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Silversoul]
#7727117 - 12/07/07 12:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Read Mycelium Running by Paul. Lets talk about natural intelligence.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
#7727118 - 12/07/07 12:57 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cheezit said: Read Mycelium Running by Paul. Lets talk about natural intelligence.
Already have. One of my favorite books.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727124 - 12/07/07 01:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't believe this many people don't know what I'm talking about when I say "God", & "Deity". Do I really have to DEFINE every single word? It's making something more complicated than it needs to be when you KNOW what I mean. I shouldn't have to specify that temperature, or electricity don't qualify as a "God". If you make up your own definitions thats on you. I should not have to compensate.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727128 - 12/07/07 01:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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and Im not going to fucking "Define Intelligence".
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727130 - 12/07/07 01:02 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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We are talking about a pretty complicated subject, so maybe you should start defining your words. Everyone has different definitions and those can change entire meanings.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727135 - 12/07/07 01:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also mycelium is not "God" either. (Although it's close) Humans are natural, we are intelligent. This is still not the topic.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727136 - 12/07/07 01:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think what a fair few folks are getting at is why beat around the bush about boogey men in the sky.
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727137 - 12/07/07 01:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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What about the geodesic domes that build temples? Surely God had nothing to do with the math that helped embody his presence. Maybe God is a mathematical equation that always equals 0 Never more never less Infinite and always changing. Fallow the path around a 0 you always come back to the same point. What you do on the path can be what ever you choose whether god caugh* good or bad, and so it goes, as all actions cause ripples and all objects reflect the ripples of ones actions differently. All comes down to my God is the Cool god that goes by the school of cool ain't no tom foolery going on. It is what it is and it is what it is not, but it is what you want it to be when it is what you want is not.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727138 - 12/07/07 01:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Some old dead greek guy said you aint no shit if you can't define it
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727141 - 12/07/07 01:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: I don't believe this many people don't know what I'm talking about when I say "God", & "Deity". Do I really have to DEFINE every single word? It's making something more complicated than it needs to be when you KNOW what I mean.
I'm sorry, but we don't KNOW what you mean. "God" is one of those elusive words that has so many meanings that it's almost impossible to define. There's the paternalistic, anthropomorphic God of tradition Christian imagery. Then there's the elusive, sublime, mysterious God of Judaism and Islam. Then there's the detached, uninvolved "Nature's God" of deism. Then there's the Hindu Brahman which is the one absolute reality underlying the fleeting, relative reality of our normal senses. So I think it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask: What DO you mean by "God"?
Quote:
Also mycelium is not "God" either.
You might want to read the book being referred to before making a fool of yourself like this.
--------------------
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DeathCompany
Oneironaut



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 12,662
Loc: Somewhere in my head
Last seen: 9 months, 29 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
#7727142 - 12/07/07 01:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cheezit said: Read Mycelium Running by Paul. Lets talk about natural intelligence.
my mothers friend wrote that book
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727144 - 12/07/07 01:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm sorry, I'm not clear on what you mean by "Definition", could you define it please?
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727145 - 12/07/07 01:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are you a relativist if you are I can proceed with my boogey man argument
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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hook me up with his daughter.
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DeathCompany
Oneironaut



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 12,662
Loc: Somewhere in my head
Last seen: 9 months, 29 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
#7727152 - 12/07/07 01:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Is she hot?
--------------------
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727153 - 12/07/07 01:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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although I don't find it nearly as ambiguous as god, here you go
a description of the essence of the thing to be defined; then we the community can get our dialectic on and see if we find it true or false
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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hook me up!!!!!! Ya in a chill kinda way.
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JonnyDeformed
ॐ



Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Directlyundertheearthssun...
Last seen: 10 years, 3 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727160 - 12/07/07 01:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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everything exists.... obviously, if the universe truly is infinite...
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dubiousness Dubious compound it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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then infinite would be unending possibilities? Then what if we get into parallel universes? Lets smoke DMT and contemplate?
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727176 - 12/07/07 01:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Noetical said: Braggart in attack, a weakling in defence
Quote:
Noetical said: Ever notice how an ignorant person thinks everything he does know important, and he tells it to everybody
Rousseau, in case anyone was wondering
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
#7727179 - 12/07/07 01:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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OK, I should have defined "God" better than I already did. I give up. I'm going to go put up my Christmas Tree now. (I still don't believe NOBODY knew what I meant by "God".)
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727181 - 12/07/07 01:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: Prove me wrong. This is not to start an argument, it is to start a debate. Ready...GO!
I believe it was St. Aquinas that provided ontological proof of a creator but I disagreed with his basic reasoning and methodology.
I truly have no proof of how we came into being or if a Creator exists or not. Sorry.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727186 - 12/07/07 01:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I actually wrote an essay on theism, existenialism, and striving to find out what our world is all about. In it I debunk God, religion, and ideology and am only left with nihilism after my reasoning. I could send you my essay if you're interested in reading it.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727191 - 12/07/07 01:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Noetical said: Are you a relativist if you are I can proceed with my boogey man argument
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727197 - 12/07/07 01:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Rousseau was smart......but wrong.
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indica


Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 18,905
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Haven't read any of the above posts but I just want to say this:
A lot of you people who say "god does not exist" are brainwashed by Christianity in that you confine your idea of what you think God 'isn't' by what the Christians have said. If you can break free of the bonds that christianity has placed on your mind in terms of the concept of god, then you will get a lot better in understanding of the actual idea of it, and perhaps find some belief in it as well.
I believe in a 'god' or element that is so far from the christian element that it just puts nearly all 'religion' into the 'too dumb' box in my mind.
Expand your mind a little more and think past your black and white existence and what bullshit religion, schools, government and society are trying to lead you to think (trying to say that without sounding like too much of a conspiricist)
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727199 - 12/07/07 01:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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define relativist. (not sarcastic)
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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indica


Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 18,905
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
Quote:
Muffin said: Prove me wrong. This is not to start an argument, it is to start a debate. Ready...GO!
I believe it was St. Aquinas that provided ontological proof of a creator but I disagreed with his basic reasoning and methodology.
I truly have no proof of how we came into being or if a Creator exists or not. Sorry.
there was also william pailey who said "a watch implies a watchmaker" and then there's the whole ontological/cosmological horseshit that comes along with it which is mostly just all playing on words.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727202 - 12/07/07 01:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would be interested in reading it if your takling to me randal.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727205 - 12/07/07 01:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Relativist tradionally means somebody who does not believe in an "Absolute Truth". It means somebody who thinks that the interpretation of the world should be left to individuals....not some all-encompassing way of thinking.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727210 - 12/07/07 01:45 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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[begin essay]
The main thing that haunts my psyche is my search for "Absolute Truth". This term can be defined as being the objective and undeniable order that is inherent in our reality. This is the most important concept that a person can consider and everything else that we ponder is inconsequential when compared to it. For example, the main monotheistic religions' (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) basic idea of Absolute Truth is that a supernatural and omnipotent Creator has enacted undeniable edicts of spirituality and morality that stipulate how we should act and what we should strive for. There are "natural rights" advocates who assert that Absolute Truth is to be found in Nature and that the natural order of our world somehow grants the basis of inalienable rights for individuals. Existentialists believe that Absolute Truth does not exist and that it is acceptable for people to base their outlooks and actions upon the viewable realities of the world or their own desires. Those are just several examples and there are a large amount of different ideas and variations on what individuals think Absolute Truth is. If there is no Absolute Truth in this reality then there are no incontestable guidelines that must be followed by men. In other words, there is no right or wrong, no proper way to conduct one's self, no supernatural reward for proper behavior, no supernatural punishment for inappropriate behavior, and we are free to do whatever we like.
When it comes to devoting one's self to a certain way of thinking or a particular way of life only the incontestable perfection of Absolute Truth or existentialist nihilism are worthy of consideration in my opinion. Strangely enough, I have merged both of these seemingly opposed viewpoints into one. I have coined a term for myself; existential theist. This term sounds very contradictory at first but please let me explain myself. I choose to live my life according to existential precepts but at the same time I believe very deeply in God. I believe that God is an existing entity and that He created us. I believe that God has instituted an Absolute Truth through a righteous and incontestable divine mandate. I believe that the nature of His existence and His will are completely beyond our comprehension. I readily admit that I have no proof for these beliefs. I have only my faith which refuses to bow to any amount of reason.
I yearn for God's grace and guidance. But, in this respect He has failed Mankind miserably. An innumerable amount of religions and denominations have flourished and each one claims to have the proper interpretation for God's will while declaring all others to be wrong. Which interpretation should we trust? God has not made His will apparent at all. And even if we were exposed to an incontestable example of His will He has not given us the cognitive ability to comprehend it. And even if His will were to be comprehended by us we have not been imbued with the needed wisdom, strength, and fortitude to consistently enact it properly. And even if we understood God's will and had the ability to follow it we would still rebel because we humans have an infuriating habit of seeking to assert our free will even if it is to our detriment. Because of Man's weaknesses and proclivities we never fail to subvert or pervert everything we become involved in (this is why religion cannot be trusted). In summary, God has left us hopelessly lost, confounded, and ill-prepared to be what He wants us to be. He has left too much room for error, confusion, weakness, misinterpretation, fickleness, depravity, selfishness, and rebellion in our species. Note that all of these arguments are dependent upon His existence (which neither I nor anybody else can definitively prove). If God does exist then He is like an absent parent. He has left us in a world where it is too easy and oftentimes even necessary to forget about Him. How can He expect our attention and commitment if we never see any evidence of His existence or caring? If we could just see an example of His righteousness and power then maybe we humans would be more willing to focus on Him. God has unequivocally failed us and I despise Him because of this. I refuse to bow to any divinely inspired system of belief because of these undeniable weaknesses that I have listed. It is unreasonable to follow God or any spiritual path. Some would call this rebellion and it probably is. But, I have made my choice. If I ever face God (as most mainstream religions envision) then I will have to answer for these blasphemies just as He will have to answer for His shortcomings.
Even though my belief in God and His alleged divine mandate are very consistent with most mainstream monotheistic religions, I have always had an ardent disdain for most religious people. I think that if someone is choosing to devote their life to something as profound and all-encompassing as a belief in a supernatural power (and the important realizations that come along with this) then they should have a sharp intellect and they should be completely cognizant of the gravity of what they are doing. Every once in a while I will come into contact with a religious person who has a powerful mind and a great understanding of his beliefs. But, more often than not I encounter religious people who are too stupid to think things through for themselves, who half-heartedly practice their faith only to avoid supernatural punishment or because it is all they have ever known, or who are too weak and scared to face the harsh realities of the world so they putridly and obsequiously grovel before a system of thought that has conveniently laid a path out for them. It seems that to think for one’s self is much too arduous for most people.
If we humans choose to not look toward the divine then we can look to our own ideas. We can choose to follow a man-made ideology. But, man-made systems of thought have their origins within flawed human brains, they are purely subjective, and therefore are devoid of any absolute legitimacy and this completely nullifies any claim to correctness or righteousness. Human-inspired ideology is empty and only an incontestable divine mandate that has been instituted by a higher power or a naturally occurring phenomenon meets the needed requirements to be termed Absolute Truth.
It's not that religious or ideological people are inherently stupid; it's that people in general are inherently stupid and thus any movement will be full of stupid people. Granted, every movement has charismatic or intelligent people who craft flowery and articulate viewpoints. But, most people involved in any movement are merely followers who want an easy-to-understand belief system laid out for them where they don't need to think things through for themselves. The complexities of the world and the mysteries of existence are too much for most people to ponder and thus they want somebody else to figure it out and explain it for them. They want easy-to-identify classifications and descriptions that will guide their viewpoints, beliefs, and actions. Viewing the world in black and white is comforting and it feels righteous, but it is not realistic.
I have determined that Absolute Truth either doesn't exist or it is unknowable and therefore unattainable. Because of this there is no valid option left but nihilism and the abyss of nothingness. The lack of order completely negates meaning or purpose to our existence and this is disheartening. Men seem to function best when they have some type of structure that gives coherence to their desires and to the world in general. But, I must admit that the possibility of the lack of order is simultaneously intriguing because any and all behaviors would be permissible.
I desire strongly to unravel the meaning of life; to discern what humans should do and to provide evidence for it. I have been unable to do this. And it is disheartening to know that much more intelligent men than I have failed in attempting the same thing. The only thing that can really be seen and felt are our instincts and human tendencies. I am desperately searching for some inkling of meaning in this life. But, I have a morbid fear that I will choose the wrong thing or that if I find the correct thing I will fail even if I tried. I do not seriously devote myself to any truth or meaning but I also do not embrace the freedom that comes along with nothingness. I yearn for meaning but I have too much pride to give up my free will to some structure. I am enthralled by the excitement of nothingness but I do not have the strength nor the rigor needed to survive or excel without meaning. I am held in limbo by an insurmountable paradox.
[/end essay]
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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That is not me then. I don't think we know the truth. but I think there is one. I once met a girl that said she thought whatever you believe in is what happens to you when you die. I thought that was an excuse not to have to think about it. I do on the other hand believe that you have the right to think what you want. Just don't expect me to buy it.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Muff Randal put it well...
You know I haven't touched much of JJ but this pretty eqyptian girl really likes Emile.
In a couple weeks I'll be reading the Social Contract and the Discourse on Inequality.
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Konyap


Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727216 - 12/07/07 01:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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god = love
love = everything
everything = a shroom trip thinkin bout how cavemen partyied and then how we jus built off it
its still there, just as complex as we are now
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727226 - 12/07/07 01:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh wait, just read it, allow me to clarify. I do not believe there is an "absolute truth" governed by a deity. I do believe there are consequenses for MOST our actions, but not because they are enforced by any kind of higher power. Sometimes when you kill someone, you get away with it. Sometimes you don't.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727227 - 12/07/07 01:53 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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so to me it seems like you believe in absolute concepts...but these absolutes can't be entirely known by us...
so these absolutes would be transcendental
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
#7727229 - 12/07/07 01:53 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm leaning towards Nietzche these days. The only thing that matters in this world is power.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727232 - 12/07/07 01:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: Oh wait, just read it, allow me to clarify. I do not believe there is an "absolute truth" governed by a deity. I do believe there are consequenses for MOST our actions, but not because they are enforced by any kind of higher power. Sometimes when you kill someone, you get away with it. Sometimes you don't.
If an all-powerful diety does not enforce consequences...then what does?
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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I wish I could give you a hug and tell you everything is going to be okay Mr Flagg
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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To an extent, yeah. I'm not sure what I believe. I am pretty sure of what I don't believe. Could I be wrong? Yes. Am I? Pretty sure no.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727243 - 12/07/07 02:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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edit: can't keep up with the convo
Edited by Noetical (12/07/07 02:02 AM)
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727246 - 12/07/07 02:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: Oh wait, just read it, allow me to clarify. I do not believe there is an "absolute truth" governed by a deity. I do believe there are consequenses for MOST our actions, but not because they are enforced by any kind of higher power. Sometimes when you kill someone, you get away with it. Sometimes you don't.
If an all-powerful diety does not enforce consequences...then what does?
Nothing. I don't think they get "Enforced". They just have consequences. It's different. Simple I know. Call it "cause and effect" perhaps? Like I said "MOST" of our actions. Some don't really have effects in our own lives. Butterfly flaps it's wings at point A), a hurricane happens at point B). But whats it to the butterfly? He's not in the hurricane. Effects happen, but I dont think they are enforced.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727247 - 12/07/07 02:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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All of the well-known theories on what existence is all about are unverifiable.
Nothing can be verified. The only things left that make any sense are nihilism and human instinct.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727260 - 12/07/07 02:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said:
Quote:
Randalflagg said: If an all-powerful diety does not enforce consequences...then what does?
Nothing. I don't think they get "Enforced". They just have consequences.
What are those consequences?
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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consequences doesn't necessarily mean something like a punishment. It can be as simple as I lost my wallet, now I can't buy gas. I'm just saying I don't think it's as complicated as everyone makes it. Why does there have to be a "Meaning of life", or a "Creator"? Who created the creator? Matter is energy, energy is matter. Space is nothing. Void. Space doesn't technically exist. Its kinda like a unit of measurement. As is time. If I measure the distance between my hand and a glass of water, and it comes out to be 1 foot. what do you have between my had and the glass? nothing. Its just a way of looking at things. Matter and energy are the only Physical things that exist in the universe. they are arranged in various ways, and here we are. If time can truly have no beginning and no end, the matter was bound to form us sooner or later. and after the species is dead, and the big bang or whatever has happened a gillion more times, it will most likely happen again, in one form or another. Like I said, pretty simple. Could be the truth, could not be. We will never know for sure, but I am pretty sure it wasn't a "God".
Also, I appreciate you having a discussion about this instead of attacking me.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
Edited by Muffin (12/07/07 02:25 AM)
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Look how many people in this world today have brain problems. And if it isn't brain problems, then look how many of us believe in completely insane and inconsistent things. The world is not about power because people don't have the power to be able to control other people - most people don't even have a control of their own emotions or minds. Any illusion of power is the result of humans participating and allowing themselves to surrender their freedom to something outside of them.
The consequence of an unexplored mind is nothing less than cosmically tragic.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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I agree "Power" is an illusion, but it becomes real when you grant someone power over you. While it doesn't really MEAN anything, the results of the power you give other people to manipulate you are very real.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727286 - 12/07/07 02:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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do you think something like justice is an absolute concept or relative to situation/men
(this has nothing to do with people in the sky)
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727290 - 12/07/07 02:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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ie You elect a president, he tells you to go to war. While you can say "No", there will be repercussions. You have free will, but you don't really have the ability to resist if someone is stronger than you.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727291 - 12/07/07 02:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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relative to situation/men
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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truffleupagus


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,103
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727292 - 12/07/07 02:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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If God's not real then what drives karma?
And if that doesn't work for you, did you see the video with the banana guy? That guy's got it all figured out.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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I don't believe in Karma. (although Buddhists are just about the LEAST stupid of all religions.) The banana video is hard to argue with, I mean, its shaped PERFECT.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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truffleupagus


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,103
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Some smartass is gonna say people-ma drive karmas. I know it.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Alright, I'm going to bed. I have to go to work at 7 (Central) and I just wasted hours trying to have discussion and getting verbally castrated by people who assume I could not have possibly considered their ideas because I came to a different conclusion. (The last page or 2 saved it somewhat though.)
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Noetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727335 - 12/07/07 03:21 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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No.
What you had was a bunch of people who thought the idea of a white bearded guy with sandals was silly but still believed in the existence of a first principal.
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Disco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7727344 - 12/07/07 03:32 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.




Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Disco Cat]
#7727361 - 12/07/07 04:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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god bent bananas crooked so the ape could grab it better without thumbs but evolution won. god hates evolution! evolution is of satan, thus as satan exist god also exists!
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dshroom
balshem
Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 174
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: razmablues]
#7727398 - 12/07/07 04:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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i too am god and his messiah. soon an ocean of love will spread across the universe that will open everything to pure intense love. the proof: take 16 dry grams and get back to me.
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fantasylndvictm
yup



Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 2,388
Loc: usa
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: dshroom]
#7727407 - 12/07/07 04:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well I believe that there are to many religions for just one to e right so I believe that whatever reliogon fits u is the right one for u...........pl are tooo different for one theory to be right.
Right?
-------------------- "How do we know whether the life of any creature has fulfilled its destiny? I have known the very old to die in bitterness and despair. I have seen young children die before their time but leave behind such a legacy of love and joy that grief for their passing was tempered by the knowledge that their brief lives had given much to others." "You have answered your own question,Tanis Half-Elven, far better than I could," the Forestmaster said gravely. "Say that that our lives are measured not by gain but by giving." -Dragonlance "Dragons of Autumn Twilight" If we lived in luxury we would grow soft. No human being truely knows their full capacity to love until they become a parent.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
Quote:
Muffin said: Oh wait, just read it, allow me to clarify. I do not believe there is an "absolute truth" governed by a deity. I do believe there are consequenses for MOST our actions, but not because they are enforced by any kind of higher power. Sometimes when you kill someone, you get away with it. Sometimes you don't.
If an all-powerful diety does not enforce consequences...then what does?
karma
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Silversoul]
#7728113 - 12/07/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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What is karma? How does it exist? Is there an observable phenomenon to it?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Well, it's too early in the morning for me to go into detail about it, but suffice to say it's the simple law of the universe that one's actions will reverberate through the world in other actions until someone intentionally stops the wheel of karma. It's not so much an individual force of justice as most people think of it. That is, doing a good deed will not necessarily mean that good things will come to you, and doing a bad deed will not necessarily cause bad things to happen to you. But behaving in a positive manner will spread that positivity to others in a chain reaction which may come back to you. Meanwhile, behaving in a negative manner will spread negativity to others, which may come back to you. To give an example, US interventionism in the Middle East spread enough negative vibes in the Muslim world that it led to 9/11. That's not to say that the people who died in 9/11 deserved it. But they were victims of karma generated by their leaders.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Silversoul]
#7728232 - 12/07/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You're defining karma as the general feelings of people? If you're nice to people they tend to be nice back and if you're mean they tend to be mean back. I don't consider that a "force" or an undeniable truth of any type. It's just human beings reacting.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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No, it's not feelings per se. It's actions. Actions beget other actions. Like I said, I just got up and I'm too tired to debate this. Maybe sometime when I'm more awake, I can make more concrete points.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Silversoul]
#7728309 - 12/07/07 11:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh...I think I see what you are saying.
It's like splashing your hand in a bathtub. Little waves will ripple throughout the tub. Your actions cause effects and other people feel those effects and their actions are sometimes motivated by them. This makes sense and is in a lot of ways true. However, there is no underlying undeniable truth to it. There is nothing concrete and absolute to base one's beliefs on. It is a belief system that deals with the real world, not the spiritual.
But, since the spiritual world is unknowable then maybe "karma" is something we should focus on because at least we can kind of see it and its repercussions.
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urtrippin
joker, smoker,midnight toker


Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 35
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7728312 - 12/07/07 11:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: Prove me wrong. This is not to start an argument, it is to start a debate. Ready...GO!
If you want to debate, make your statement and back it up with evidence. You already fail at debate by not providing any evidence that god doesn't exist.
I don't believe there is a biblical god myself and i'm not making a debate about it because it's impossible to prove either way.
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marz13
Unseen



Registered: 10/30/07
Posts: 155
Loc: Arizona
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Silversoul]
#7728611 - 12/07/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Scientist question God's existence because they really don't know. So they come up with their own answers. Those answers are based on a questions of doubt. They question because they really don't know. Other wise if they knew they would not question. To devote is to worship. Every man devote his life to some thing. Even the atheist. So "gods" exist. Look in your life and in the life of others. Look at history. Look into the future. Technology is a god to many. Have you ever heard someone say "I have nothing to live for"? That person lives for "self". When they are unhappy with themselves they become depressed. People worship ideas, rock bands or a person like the fagot ass pope.The list goes on and on. That's the journey that they are on. Think about it. In this earth man is the only created being with an urge to worship. What about accountability? Man is accountable for his actions. Order? The universe has order. Love? Like the love you have for a newborn baby. Pureness? Respect? Kindness? I'm not one of those religious church goers. I personally don't trust them, but I also don't trust science. Which is a form of religion. Religion is of man not of God. No mater how you look at it "god" is real. There is one Creator and many "gods".
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: marz13]
#7728870 - 12/07/07 01:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Scientist question God's existence because they really don't know. So they come up with their own answers. Those answers are based on a questions of doubt. They question because they really don't know. Other wise if they knew they would not question. To devote is to worship. Every man devote his life to some thing. Even the atheist. So "gods" exist. Look in your life and in the life of others. Look at history. Look into the future. Technology is a god to many. Have you ever heard someone say "I have nothing to live for"? That person lives for "self". When they are unhappy with themselves they become depressed. People worship ideas, rock bands or a person like the fagot ass pope.The list goes on and on. That's the journey that they are on. Think about it. In this earth man is the only created being with an urge to worship. What about accountability? Man is accountable for his actions. Order? The universe has order. Love? Like the love you have for a newborn baby. Pureness? Respect? Kindness? I'm not one of those religious church goers. I personally don't trust them, but I also don't trust science. Which is a form of religion. Religion is of man not of God. No mater how you look at it "god" is real. There is one Creator and many "gods".
People have said this to me before. I see where your coming from, but I do not agree at all. Someone told me if I don't believe in god I am then saying I am my own god. I guess people do have some SERIOUSLY different definitions. A religion and a purpose are different to me.
As far as Karma goes, if you are calling it a "supernatural" force, I don't thinks so. If you mean what I was talking about earlier, where events cause other events that tend to be appropriate "Reactions", then yes. That to me is nature, which to me is not given near enough admiration. You don't need supernatural forces to cause the events that happen around us. I agree there is a definite pattern to things, to me that is the way things naturally fall into place. (Oversimplified reasoning behind this) Water flows whatever way is natural for it, if it hits a rock, it goes around it, finds a pool, it hangs out there for a while, when you cause turmoil in the water it becomes less and less predictable what is going to happen. Its reacting to the events around it. I think this a VERY small scale example of how the universe works. There are too many factors to consider all of them, so when something just seems to "fit" into a situation, it seems like there must intelligence behind it. I say, "Shouldn't it just fit"? Nature is self regulating through consistency, not design. (at least I think so)
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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blkjkrabbit

Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 4,971
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7728956 - 12/07/07 02:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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this thread doesn't belong in the pub. plus it's completely subjective and retarded to argue over
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ShiVersblood
VAmPiRES HELLA ❤


Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 115,620
Loc: United States of America
Last seen: 1 hour, 12 minutes
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Dude, we found out the Roman God's were fake, Zeus and etc. That should be a clue man, clearly should be a clue.
-------------------- Retiro Equipaje. Mas uno por favor Cerveza, es mas fina. Psalm 706:6
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sam420
CertifiedReptilianOverlord



Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 3,144
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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eurrgrh....
i have officially past the point in my life where i am willing to discuss religion. just wish i could have all those hours back and spend them doing something more productive like masturbating and smoking weed
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i'm a spy huntin rap dinosaur from the future
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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I edited the original post, so as to avoid more confusion.
Quote:
this thread doesn't belong in the pub. plus it's completely subjective and retarded to argue over
It's not subjective at all. It's really not that complicated. is there a "god"? (Dictionary definition, if you make up your own idea of what "god" is, I cannot reasonably be expected to consider every possible random definition.) I think where most people disagree is some think it is a yes or no answer, (Like myself) and others think it is more complicated. You think its more complicated. I don't. Still simple.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7729035 - 12/07/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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brb church.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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DeathCompany
Oneironaut



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 12,662
Loc: Somewhere in my head
Last seen: 9 months, 29 days
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Quote:
fantasylndvictm said: Well I believe that there are to many religions for just one to e right so I believe that whatever reliogon fits u is the right one for u...........pl are tooo different for one theory to be right.
Right?
I believe you are relating to the theory on consensus environment
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
ShiVersblood said: Dude, we found out the Roman God's were fake, Zeus and etc. That should be a clue man, clearly should be a clue.
How and when, exactly, did we "find out" that their gods were fake?
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Silversoul]
#7729298 - 12/07/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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no one did.
its just an older belief and thus forgotten and i guess now its thought of as nonsense.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Colbadol
Reality Mechanic


Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 1,722
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7729372 - 12/07/07 04:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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God IS real. He exists in our subconcious, and every single organized religion (and even the unorganized ones) all talk about the same perceived energy that our human nervous systems sometimes 'feels.'
Take a DMT trip, for instance. Take meditation. Take near-death experiences. God is a part of human nature. God is in us. We are gods. Man....if only we could record the imagination. The dreams and trips would prove it.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Colbadol]
#7729386 - 12/07/07 04:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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muffin, you dont know anything
and never will, so join the club 
debate and gayness over
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Caribou_Lou
Stranger


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 2,510
Loc: Never Land
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Re: God is not real. [Re: notapillow]
#7729407 - 12/07/07 04:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why can't people accept the fact that religion is dumb?
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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thats a very closeminded question. everyone has a right to their own beliefs.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
Edited by igwna (12/07/07 04:09 PM)
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Caribou_Lou
Stranger


Registered: 10/17/07
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Re: God is not real. [Re: igwna]
#7729429 - 12/07/07 04:11 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm actually a very open minded person, so maybe religion is dumb.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Caribou_Lou said: Why can't people accept the fact that religion is dumb?
the exact same resson you could never accept the fact it is real
gayness over everyone go home
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DeathCompany
Oneironaut



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 12,662
Loc: Somewhere in my head
Last seen: 9 months, 29 days
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Re: God is not real. [Re: igwna]
#7729436 - 12/07/07 04:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
skcorrelyt said: thats a very closeminded question. everyone has a right to their own beliefs.
including caribou Lou?
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: notapillow]
#7729441 - 12/07/07 04:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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haha yes. yikers
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
Edited by igwna (12/07/07 04:14 PM)
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Caribou_Lou
Stranger


Registered: 10/17/07
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Re: God is not real. [Re: igwna]
#7729469 - 12/07/07 04:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do people ever stop and think about how there are so many different religions.. people just wasting their time putting faith into something that was made up by some people a long time ago. Why does there have to be something more to life?
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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um cus there is. it keeps going once tards liek you die off. life is not your pissant dope feind life. its all of us, swirling
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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its a coping mechanism.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: igwna]
#7729496 - 12/07/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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im sure dopies
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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I really don't think you're in a position to tell them that they're wasting their time. I've seen a lot of people who benefited from their faith.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Silversoul]
#7729567 - 12/07/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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IMO, people who cultivate a true faith in their daily lives have a sort of aura about them. There's a guy at my physical therapist who is pretty enlightened.. he'll say shit to me and i'll be like "whoa.. what?" .. he always knows what I'm thinking.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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theres a page in be here now about that feeling
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Colbadol
Reality Mechanic


Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 1,722
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Quote:
Caribou_Lou said: Do people ever stop and think about how there are so many different religions.. people just wasting their time putting faith into something that was made up by some people a long time ago. Why does there have to be something more to life?
Has anyone every stopped to think that perhaps many religions existing at once isnt mututally exclusive, but that theyre all the same? Combine all religions, and that is spirituality. Stop looking for differences. It is the similarities that matter. Ignore the holy books and focus on the message.
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Caribou_Lou
Stranger


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 2,510
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Re: God is not real. [Re: notapillow]
#7729652 - 12/07/07 04:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
notapillow said: im sure dopies
I've never even tried heroin.. not like that should matter
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: notapillow]
#7729662 - 12/07/07 05:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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People seem to be getting all uppity and saying you can't say there is no god, because you can never be sure, but plenty of people here are saying there IS a god and no one seems to be calling them out about it. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. I guess this is an impossible subject for people to discuss without getting all pissed off. One day, when we have all evolved into super beings, maybe this conversation will be possible, but people just take it too personal when you dissagree with there beliefs. People just come in and start talking shit instead of addressing the subject.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Caribou_Lou said:
Quote:
notapillow said: im sure dopies
I've never even tried heroin.. not like that should matter
never said you did i just called you dopie. dopie
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7729677 - 12/07/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Has anyone every stopped to think that perhaps many religions existing at once isnt mututally exclusive, but that theyre all the same? Combine all religions, and that is spirituality. Stop looking for differences. It is the similarities that matter. Ignore the holy books and focus on the message.
I agree some most of the major religions are similar, and they have some good stuff to teach. I think of religion as more like a farie tale with a moral. Just because you can't positively say something is wrong, because the goalpost can always be moved back to fit anyones argument, it doesn't mean at some point it doesnt become a little bit much to swallow.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7729678 - 12/07/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Muffin said: People seem to be getting all uppity and saying you can't say there is no god, because you can never be sure, but plenty of people here are saying there IS a god and no one seems to be calling them out about it. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. I guess this is an impossible subject for people to discuss without getting all pissed off. One day, when we have all evolved into super beings, maybe this conversation will be possible, but people just take it too personal when you dissagree with there beliefs. People just come in and start talking shit instead of addressing the subject.
indeed there is really no point
i have equal respect for both sides but non for people who think above this dilema
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Desu


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 29
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: notapillow]
#7729700 - 12/07/07 05:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I think of religion as more like a farie tale with a moral.
I suppose that I agree with that a little. Besides the bible, what hard proof is there of a conscious existant god like the one of Christian faith?
Many would say "god is all around us".......yet, how hard-core proof is that realisticly?
Why does the Christian god never speak to any one any more? He used to even talk to those whom did not care to listen to him.
If the bible were to be taken away, what *real* proof would there be......*OBJECTIVE* proof.
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7729710 - 12/07/07 05:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I guess I'm of the opinion that just because you can't verify something, doesn't mean it's not worth looking into. To each there own.
Also, the above post of mine refers mostly to "organized religions". I do not deny the POSSIBILITY of some form of "god" but I do adamantly deny the probability.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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slackophage
Misanthropist



Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 1,112
Loc: Seattleish
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Desu]
#7729711 - 12/07/07 05:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Faith and proof are mutually exclusive, Christians will never prove the existence of their God because it denies faith. They see no need to.
I think there's a higher power, but no way it can be sentient. If it is sentient, it's a sadist.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Disco Cat]
#7729722 - 12/07/07 05:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Muffin, prove you exist.
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Desu


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 29
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Quote:
learningtofly said: Muffin, prove you exist.
Well.......Muffin is typing....right? You can acquiesce that much.
I've never seen god type any thing before. I wonder why..
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7729798 - 12/07/07 05:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I just jacked off in the shower like, 3 minutes ago, things that don't exist, don't jack off.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7729813 - 12/07/07 05:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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that theory is flimsy at best
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7729842 - 12/07/07 05:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Moving goalpost. Always pushing the burden of proof farther away until it is no longer attainable. Does common sense not count for anything anymore? Do I exist? YES. Saying I can't prove I do is not a point at all, let alone a good one.
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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Desu


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 29
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: notapillow]
#7729849 - 12/07/07 05:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
notapillow said: that theory is flimsy at best
I'm not finding a problem with it.
If one were to masturbate, one would be required to exist.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Desu]
#7729854 - 12/07/07 05:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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if i diddnt exist i would never stop masturbating
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Muffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
#7729912 - 12/07/07 06:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also, It was not flimsy at all, it was hard as steel. I took the randalflag challenge. (Obviously I lost.)
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Civil disobedience is insufficient.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Desu]
#7729917 - 12/07/07 06:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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If reality is subjective than God does and does not exist at the same time so this Entity or perhaps symbol of good merely however you see it.
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Desu


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 29
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Do *I* exist in YOUR subjective reality then?? Are we all in OUR OWN little REALITY?.......Can I not COMMUNICATE with you?
Apparently even though some things are experienced differently by different people, there is *some thing* MUTUAL about reality as well..
If you eat an apple on a table, I can't eat it. It affects us BOTH.
If I throw a rock at you, you would feel it.
If we can not at least agree upon THAT........then I guess this thread, and what I am typing, and in fact my entire existence is ALL exclusively in YOUR reality and no one else's.
We are like a prism..........light that enters refracts differently for different people.........yet the fact is, the light is still there.
There are things that MULTIPLE people can mutually agree exist, or that things act a certain way. Hence science describing how things work. Science is not merely some crap some one decided to come up with in their "own reality".
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Caribou_Lou
Stranger


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 2,510
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Desu]
#7730159 - 12/07/07 06:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Desu said:
Quote:
learningtofly said: Muffin, prove you exist.
Well.......Muffin is typing....right? You can acquiesce that much.
I've never seen god type any thing before. I wonder why..
Because he's busy sucking cock, I mean, "he" isn't real.
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indica


Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 18,905
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Quote:
Caribou_Lou said: Why can't people accept the fact that religion is dumb?
religion and god are two very different things
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Blend
afferent orchestra



Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
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Quote:
learningtofly said: If reality is subjective than God does and does not exist at the same time...
I think this is a vital point.
Debates about God are never 'simple concepts.' It's the first question; it's the same as asking "Why are we here?" Speaking about infinity or nothingness just can't be put into a neat little box for everyone to understand the same way. The world we experience is completely subjective.
Beliefs are things people think are true for whatever reason. It's an opinion, a view - it can't be proven one way or the other. If it could, there would be no reason to 'believe'.
I believe We are God. Consciousness. Life and God are the same thing. Maybe you interpret that to mean there is no God. Does it make any difference what either of us thinks? Can we not just accept the fact that God is far too complex for any mere human to completely understand, and go about our lives? I don't think so.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Blend]
#7731640 - 12/08/07 01:29 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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i think thats one of thos eduh kinda thinga the fact that every thing is existing alll at once smewhere s my current personal theroy
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Desu


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 29
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Blend]
#7731692 - 12/08/07 01:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said:
Quote:
learningtofly said: If reality is subjective than God does and does not exist at the same time...
I think this is a vital point.
Subjective......up to a point........right? Did you read my previous post?
We know other things can be proven to exist via science.....like sporks......they exist.......right?
I really don't know why people like making this so complicated. They turn it from being a conscious god that thinks and governs the world, in to abstract ideas and how god is some vague undefinable thing.
This thread was asking about a *conscious* *alive* being some where in heaven governing the people of planet Earth, of which science has not been able to prove exists.
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Walter1496211
Window Washer



Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 639
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Desu]
#7731720 - 12/08/07 02:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Who Can define what is real for someone else? I know God is real. Does that change what you believe? No.. It doesn't. Reality is the choice you make when you decide that its worth living every day, when your death is as sure as the sun rising in the morning. I know God is real the proof for me is not necessary. But for you truth is believing that your eyes see color in a black and white world who can say what is real.. People who are born color blind don't find out until they are in there early teens.. Was what they saw for the years before any less real than what you see every day?
-------------------- you see the world through the window of your experience
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Desu


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 29
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Walter1496211 said: People who are born color blind don't find out until they are in there early teens.. Was what they saw for the years before any less real than what you see every day?
....Beautiful....
..And yet, it is undeniable that no matter how subjective you wish our realities to be, there are some *MUTUAL* aspects between our realities. *I* can affect *you* in some way, right? It is POSSIBLE to say that some thing might exist to both you *AND* me. Do cats exist in your reality? WOW what a coincidence, they exist in my reality too!
Having realized this.........is it not possible for a god (let's say the Christian god just for fun!) might either be existent or non-existent to *BOTH* of us?
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Walter1496211
Window Washer



Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 639
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Desu]
#7731763 - 12/08/07 02:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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It depends on our point of view.. entirely. you can say that there is no proof but to me the stars in the sky and the rotation of the earth conforming to the existence of life on earth. That would be proof to me but to you its a coincidence. Cats may exist.. But I don't own one and our reality's might be the same but your cat wont feel comfortable in my home because it would not be what I choose to live with.
Edited by Walter1496211 (12/08/07 02:31 AM)
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AlCapwn
ID Reset, take that subpoena


Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2,957
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Desu]
#7731790 - 12/08/07 02:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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God is a living (living?) paradox. Example: The ability to improve one's self could be considered a very desirable trait. However, if god is already perfect, he cannot self improve. What we can conclude is that, god can never be perfect because a perfect god would have the ability to make himself better all the time.
I personally think god could quite possibly exist. If he does, though, he is immensely misinterpreted (because the human mind couldn't ever even remotely understand true omnipotence.)
For Christians to deny evolution is stupid. Everything evolves, and it's observable from the present and the past. This is not to say that god did not create evolution. However, if god was perfect, he could have made us perfect from the start. Nonetheless, there is a very large force behind evolution. Whether you believe it to be god, or the universe, I can respect that. (Perhaps the same thing, no?)
Here's where I'm at with my beliefs right now. They constantly change and evolve, but it's usually just because I add another facet of understanding to them:
I think everything in existence exists in all dimensions. Everything in the second dimension exists in the third, everything in the third exists in the fourth and so on. This includes ourselves. We are not, as humans, exempt from this by some miraculous law of physics. This means we hypothetically have a physical fourth, fifth etc.. dimension extension to our physical selves. This means we, as humans, can evolve in all dimensions except perhaps the last dimension. (dunno, haven't been) I think god might be just another primitive being so evolved over time, he transcended his physical self (something humans might achieve if we were to survive an astronomically long time) and is pulling the strings in another dimension. He might have super advanced human-like traits such as an evolved, complex form of empathy for example. God has feelings too. This is all hypothetical, of course.
I have more elaborate reasonings and explanations, but I don't want to write a book here.
-------------------- Huuuuurrrrrr!
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Walter1496211
Window Washer



Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 639
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: God is not real. [Re: AlCapwn]
#7731807 - 12/08/07 02:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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And what if God were a man that learned an infinite lesson from an infinite amount of different experiences not improving not diminishing but gradually adapting to each infinite situation in order to continue a new and powerful form of existence every day a new form of matter is created and life and matter all feel its effects eternal existence means becoming part of what continues and forgetting what dies.
-------------------- you see the world through the window of your experience
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sam420
CertifiedReptilianOverlord



Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 3,144
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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we are God
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i'm a spy huntin rap dinosaur from the future
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AlCapwn
ID Reset, take that subpoena


Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2,957
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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This is entirely possible, because the concept of better or worse is a human machination when in fact, there is only different.
-------------------- Huuuuurrrrrr!
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Desu


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 29
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: AlCapwn]
#7731825 - 12/08/07 02:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
AlCapwn said: Here's where I'm at with my beliefs right now. They constantly change and evolve, but it's usually just because I add another facet of understanding to them
I sense an open mind. And some interesting theories.
When will we finally know I wonder.
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AlCapwn
ID Reset, take that subpoena


Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2,957
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Desu]
#7731848 - 12/08/07 03:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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As soon as we evolve enough to either communicate with or see, I'm assuming. As of now, it's all speculation. Nothing wrong with that though, as speculation leads to understanding.
-------------------- Huuuuurrrrrr!
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: AlCapwn]
#7731921 - 12/08/07 04:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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God, Santa, Easter Bunny. They are all the same.
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EllisDSox
King Hella!

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
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Quote:
God, Santa, Easter Bunny. They are all the same.
Except one is a fat man who brings presents, one is a rabbit, and one is sending you to hell for that comment.
Seriously, though, God isn't a substantial thing. You cannot prove or disprove God anymore than you can have objective proof for love or enlightenment. I think the idea of God comes from an archetypal human experience of total happiness, bliss and a feeling of being embraced by an all-pervasive loving force. The experience and its importance cannot be denied.
Whether or not this experience has anything to do with an angry man who destroys people for "sins" cannot be proven either, but essentially God is more of a state of mind than anything external. Whether the mystical experience is seen as something internal, which floods the external world with love and light, or as a union with something external isn't all that significant, really.
In my opinion, what's important is the mystical experience and what we can bring back from that to improve the world- to flood the universe with our own inner light, if you will. People who are looking for an authoritarian father figure (whether to believe in him or disprove his existence) are, in my opinion, on a fruitless quest.
What's true is that, if a certain state of mind is reached and maintained, one's universe becomes flooded with what a Christian would call Divine Light. Hinduism and Buddhism differ significantly only in that Buddhism sees the all-pervasive enlightened consciousness as a phenomena of mind rather than the thoughts of an all powerful conscious being.
No one can ever prove or disprove God, or the world would either be totally atheistic or full of believers. Rational arguments for or against the existence of God, particularly the trash spouted by Descartes are just frustrating sophistry. God is simply one way in which to interpret the mystical experience. Blind faith and blind atheism are equally stupid.
-------------------- Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: EllisDSox]
#7731941 - 12/08/07 05:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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God is teh ghey.
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truffleupagus


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,103
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I just thought of something.
Not too long ago my dog, a husky, almost ate my cat. We were trying to see if we could train them to get along with each other (rather than keeping them separated) and things got out of hand.
Basically, my cat took off and my dog's high prey drive kicked in. The cat was literally inside my dog's mouth. I'm embarassed to say that I was in such a panicky state of shock that it took me a minute to respond and grab my dog by his collar.
If we're just looking at pure instinct, there's no reason my dog shouldn't have killed the cat that night. He definitely had ample time to do more damage than he did. So if that's not the most perfect example of why there might be a God, I don't know what is.
If we had to mourn the loss of our cat that night in such a heinous way as that would have been, I'm about positive I would have entirely lost my faith.
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Isaac
Jive Ass Turkey


Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 705
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Disco Cat]
#7735611 - 12/09/07 07:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Disco Cat said: Um, excuse me, but if God isn't real then wtf did Jesus come from? You lose, lawl wut.
Jesus was just some crazy Jew that thought he was the son of God.
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undergrounder
fluffy bunny



Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 1,394
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Quote:
truffleupagus said: I just thought of something.
Not too long ago my dog, a husky, almost ate my cat. We were trying to see if we could train them to get along with each other (rather than keeping them separated) and things got out of hand.
Basically, my cat took off and my dog's high prey drive kicked in. The cat was literally inside my dog's mouth. I'm embarassed to say that I was in such a panicky state of shock that it took me a minute to respond and grab my dog by his collar.
If we're just looking at pure instinct, there's no reason my dog shouldn't have killed the cat that night. He definitely had ample time to do more damage than he did. So if that's not the most perfect example of why there might be a God, I don't know what is.
If we had to mourn the loss of our cat that night in such a heinous way as that would have been, I'm about positive I would have entirely lost my faith.
Your dog didn't eat your cat because he didn't like the taste.
By the way, 'DOG' is ... backwards, for ... GOD!!
OMG!! Your dog is God! It's a sign! repent! repent!
Seriously though you clearly don't want to lose your faith in God, so how can you objectively decide for yourself whether God exists unless you disregard your own personal needs? If you want to truly find the truth you need to be able to pretend that you would accept it for what it is.
I personally believe that 'God' represents a human psychological need for reassurance in the face of death. Religion started because some people just can't deal with their owm mortality and so invented an afterlife for themselves. The rest just followed the religion because they were told to.
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RIP Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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not only that but the dog might not of been trying to EAT it, so much as prey, but play with the cat. my dogs chase my cats all the time and take them down but never do anything after (they let the cats go)
and some dogs instincts ARNT to kill the animal but subdue it so that the hunters can get it. for example we used to have chickens and our yorkshire terriers would be let out if the chickens ever escaped because they wouldnt harm them but would chase them down and hold their wings/bodies down with their front paws and wait for us to come over and get them.
so, it could just be animalistic instincts :-\
(i don't object that god may exist though)
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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truffleupagus


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,103
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Quote:
undergrounder said: Religion started because some people just can't deal with their owm mortality and so invented an afterlife for themselves. The rest just followed the religion because they were told to.
Well I happen to think that the afterlife is for real but that's just me. I think love also exists in the afterlife but my hope is that love is a much less complicated thing in the hereafter.
All I was saying is that it would have been difficult to maintain my belief in God and the afterlife had I been forced to clean up a bloody mess of the feline that we adore so much (as stupid as that would have been of me, for whatever reason).
I'm still a little surprised at the amount of nonbelievers on here though. Everybody wants to talk about astral projection which is, as near as I can figure, an outward manifestation of the spirit. But then somebody's gonna tell me that the spirit dies right along with the body. To that, I'm gonna tell them that I think they're dumb.
But honestly, I think the afterlife can maybe be as real or not real as the individual desires. I stay open like fallopian.
Edited by TDOTupagus (12/09/07 08:50 AM)
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truffleupagus


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,103
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Re: God is not real. [Re: igwna]
#7735727 - 12/09/07 08:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
skcorrelyt said: not only that but the dog might not of been trying to EAT it, so much as prey, but play with the cat. my dogs chase my cats all the time and take them down but never do anything after (they let the cats go)
Yeah, what kind of dogs do you have though? My dog's a hunter. He's killed numerous wild critters and I actually witnessed him almost kill a stray cat once. He didn't want to play with that thing. He wanted dinner. A lot depends on the breed I think.
We keep the dog and cat separate now though just to be on the safe side.
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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well, i've had a wide variety of dogs. but mostly those that caught the chickens were terriers. i also have a lab.
we've had tons of different animals (my moms a breeder and my dads a farmer)
and i've worked in a pet store.
What kind of dog do you have?
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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undergrounder
fluffy bunny



Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 1,394
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Quote:
truffleupagus said: I'm still a little surprised at the amount of nonbelievers on here though. Everybody wants to talk about astral projection which is, as near as I can figure, an outward manifestation of the spirit. But then somebody's gonna tell me that the spirit dies right along with the body. To that, I'm gonna tell them that I think they're dumb.
The thing about belief in the sense of religion is it goes against rational thought. We're living in a society now where we're constantly warned not to believe everything we hear. If i were to have faith in the truth of every television commercial on TV i would be poor and stupid. The existence of God, not matter what form 'he' takes can't be rationalised. There's a point where you come to where you say "I can't see the fairies at the end of my garden, i can't touch the fairies at the end of my garden, i've never seen any evidence whatsoever for fairies at the end of my garden, so why do i still believe?"
Now sure when a close family member dies, you sincerely, dearly want there to be a God and an afterlife because it will help you deal with your pain. It's a soul destroying thought to think that 'that's it', it's so much easier to believe you'll see them again. The very first religious activity was the funeral, and its not hard to understand why. The need for God is an incredibly powerful psychological need, and people that don't believe and are prepared to face the consequences of this are incredibly brave IMO.
OBEs are a hallucination.
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RIP Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
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Atheist
Stranger



Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 13,705
Loc: USA
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trip forever
Stranger

Registered: 08/21/09
Posts: 5,873
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Quote:
TurntableJunky said:
Quote:
Muffin said: Prove me wrong. This is not to start an argument, it is to start a debate. Ready...GO!
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Life Upon Death
Stranger

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 3,225
Last seen: 14 years, 25 days
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how do you rationalize Ex Nihilo?
Other support for creatio ex nihilo belief comes from the idea that something cannot arise from nothing; that would involve a contradiction (compare ex nihilo nihil fit). Therefore something must always have existed. But (this account continues) it is scientifically impossible for matter to always have existed. Moreover, matter is contingent: it is not logically impossible for it not to exist, and nothing else depends on it. Hence one deduces a Creator, non-contingent and not composed of matter: God.
existence without God is whats illogical
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thewalls
sheep whisperer

Registered: 10/09/09
Posts: 109
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Just because something was created, doesnt imply that it was created by someone. If one whole existed and broke into pieces that would be enough to start a chain reaction with infinite possibilities. How that one thing existed is a whole other ball game. In no way does it imply that that one thing had to be conscious or even be created by something else conscious.
If there was a god he's dead now and we're his decaying corpse. Theres clearly no governing force here protecting us.
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.




Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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Re: God is not real. [Re: thewalls]
#11363824 - 11/01/09 04:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Mankind in his insatiable search for divine Knowledge has discarded all biblical teachings
Realizing that the strength of religion is the repression of knowledge All structures of religion have collapsed
Life prays for death in the wake of the horror of these revelations
It was never imagined how graphic the reality that would be known as the end of creation Would manifest itself
We believe all this chaos and atrocity can be traced Back to one single event
We hold these truths to be painfully self-evident All men are not created equal Only the strong will prosper Only the strong will conquer Only in the darkness of Christ have I realized God Hates Us All
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Taco Chef
I found dead John Cheever



Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 33,222
Loc: the city of dis
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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the burden of proof is on the believers in god. there is 0% empirical evidence that go exists, and 100% empirical evidence that he does not. if believers want to change that, they need to provide empirical data that can be verified and repeated.
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trip forever
Stranger


Registered: 08/21/09
Posts: 5,873
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Taco Chef]
#11364196 - 11/01/09 05:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
novumorganum said: the burden of proof is on the believers in god. there is 0% empirical evidence that go exists, and 100% empirical evidence that he does not. if believers want to change that, they need to provide empirical data that can be verified and repeated.
I second that and completely agree.
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