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InvisibleCheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
Re: God is not real. [Re: DeathCompany]
    #7727149 - 12/07/07 01:09 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

hook me up with his daughter.


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OfflineDeathCompany
Oneironaut
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 12,662
Loc: Somewhere in my head
Last seen: 9 months, 29 days
Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
    #7727152 - 12/07/07 01:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Is she hot?


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InvisibleNoetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
    #7727153 - 12/07/07 01:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

although I don't find it nearly as ambiguous as god, here you go

a description of the essence of the thing to be defined; then we the community can get our dialectic on and see if we find it true or false


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InvisibleCheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
Re: God is not real. [Re: DeathCompany]
    #7727156 - 12/07/07 01:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

hook me up!!!!!!  Ya in a chill kinda way.  :borfase:


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OfflineJonnyDeformed

Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 1,809
Loc: Directlyundertheearthssun...
Last seen: 10 years, 3 days
Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
    #7727160 - 12/07/07 01:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

everything exists.... obviously, if the universe truly is infinite...


--------------------


dubiousness
Dubious compound

it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.


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InvisibleCheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
Re: God is not real. [Re: JonnyDeformed]
    #7727164 - 12/07/07 01:17 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

then infinite would be unending possibilities? Then what if we get into parallel universes? Lets smoke DMT and contemplate?


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InvisibleNoetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
    #7727176 - 12/07/07 01:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Noetical said:
Braggart in attack, a weakling in defence




Quote:

Noetical said:
Ever notice how an ignorant person thinks everything he does know important, and he tells it to everybody




Rousseau,
in case anyone was wondering


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OfflineMuffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: God is not real. [Re: Cheezit]
    #7727179 - 12/07/07 01:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

OK, I should have defined "God" better than I already did. I give up. I'm going to go put up my Christmas Tree now. (I still don't believe NOBODY knew what I meant by "God".)


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Civil disobedience is insufficient.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
    #7727181 - 12/07/07 01:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Muffin said:
Prove me wrong. 
This is not to start an argument, it is to start a debate.  Ready...GO!




I believe it was St. Aquinas that provided ontological proof of a creator but I disagreed with his basic reasoning and methodology.

I truly have no proof of how we came into being or if a Creator exists or not.  Sorry.  :shrug:


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
    #7727186 - 12/07/07 01:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I actually wrote an essay on theism, existenialism, and striving to find out what our world is all about. In it I debunk God, religion, and ideology and am only left with nihilism after my reasoning. I could send you my essay if you're interested in reading it.


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InvisibleNoetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
    #7727191 - 12/07/07 01:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Noetical said:
Are you a relativist if you are I can proceed with my boogey man argument




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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
    #7727197 - 12/07/07 01:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Rousseau was smart......but wrong.


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Invisibleindica
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 18,905
Re: God is not real. [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7727198 - 12/07/07 01:37 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Haven't read any of the above posts but I just want to say this:

A lot of you people who say "god does not exist" are brainwashed by Christianity in that you confine your idea of what you think God 'isn't' by what the Christians have said. If you can break free of the bonds that christianity has placed on your mind in terms of the concept of god, then you will get a lot better in understanding of the actual idea of it, and perhaps find some belief in it as well.

I believe in a 'god' or element that is so far from the christian element that it just puts nearly all 'religion' into the 'too dumb' box in my mind.

Expand your mind a little more and think past your black and white existence and what bullshit religion, schools, government and society are trying to lead you to think (trying to say that without sounding like too much of a conspiricist)


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OfflineMuffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: God is not real. [Re: Noetical]
    #7727199 - 12/07/07 01:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

define relativist. (not sarcastic)


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Civil disobedience is insufficient.


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Invisibleindica
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 18,905
Re: God is not real. [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7727201 - 12/07/07 01:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Quote:

Muffin said:
Prove me wrong. 
This is not to start an argument, it is to start a debate.  Ready...GO!




I believe it was St. Aquinas that provided ontological proof of a creator but I disagreed with his basic reasoning and methodology.

I truly have no proof of how we came into being or if a Creator exists or not.  Sorry.  :shrug:





there was also william pailey who said "a watch implies a watchmaker" and then there's the whole ontological/cosmological horseshit that comes along with it which is mostly just all playing on words.


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OfflineMuffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
    #7727202 - 12/07/07 01:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I would be interested in reading it if your takling to me randal.


--------------------


Civil disobedience is insufficient.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
    #7727205 - 12/07/07 01:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Relativist tradionally means somebody who does not believe in an "Absolute Truth". It means somebody who thinks that the interpretation of the world should be left to individuals....not some all-encompassing way of thinking.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: God is not real. [Re: Muffin]
    #7727210 - 12/07/07 01:45 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

[begin essay]

The main thing that haunts my psyche is my search for "Absolute Truth". This term can be defined as being the objective and undeniable order that is inherent in our reality. This is the most important concept that a person can consider and everything else that we ponder is inconsequential when compared to it. For example, the main monotheistic religions' (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) basic idea of Absolute Truth is that a supernatural and omnipotent Creator has enacted undeniable edicts of spirituality and morality that stipulate how we should act and what we should strive for. There are "natural rights" advocates who assert that Absolute Truth is to be found in Nature and that the natural order of our world somehow grants the basis of inalienable rights for individuals. Existentialists believe that Absolute Truth does not exist and that it is acceptable for people to base their outlooks and actions upon the viewable realities of the world or their own desires. Those are just several examples and there are a large amount of different ideas and variations on what individuals think Absolute Truth is. If there is no Absolute Truth in this reality then there are no incontestable guidelines that must be followed by men. In other words, there is no right or wrong, no proper way to conduct one's self, no supernatural reward for proper behavior, no supernatural punishment for inappropriate behavior, and we are free to do whatever we like.

When it comes to devoting one's self to a certain way of thinking or a particular way of life only the incontestable perfection of Absolute Truth or existentialist nihilism are worthy of consideration in my opinion. Strangely enough, I have merged both of these seemingly opposed viewpoints into one. I have coined a term for myself; existential theist. This term sounds very contradictory at first but please let me explain myself. I choose to live my life according to existential precepts but at the same time I believe very deeply in God. I believe that God is an existing entity and that He created us. I believe that God has instituted an Absolute Truth through a righteous and incontestable divine mandate. I believe that the nature of His existence and His will are completely beyond our comprehension. I readily admit that I have no proof for these beliefs. I have only my faith which refuses to bow to any amount of reason.

I yearn for God's grace and guidance. But, in this respect He has failed Mankind miserably. An innumerable amount of religions and denominations have flourished and each one claims to have the proper interpretation for God's will while declaring all others to be wrong. Which interpretation should we trust? God has not made His will apparent at all. And even if we were exposed to an incontestable example of His will He has not given us the cognitive ability to comprehend it. And even if His will were to be comprehended by us we have not been imbued with the needed wisdom, strength, and fortitude to consistently enact it properly. And even if we understood God's will and had the ability to follow it we would still rebel because we humans have an infuriating habit of seeking to assert our free will even if it is to our detriment. Because of Man's weaknesses and proclivities we never fail to subvert or pervert everything we become involved in (this is why religion cannot be trusted). In summary, God has left us hopelessly lost, confounded, and ill-prepared to be what He wants us to be. He has left too much room for error, confusion, weakness, misinterpretation, fickleness, depravity, selfishness, and rebellion in our species. Note that all of these arguments are dependent upon His existence (which neither I nor anybody else can definitively prove). If God does exist then He is like an absent parent. He has left us in a world where it is too easy and oftentimes even necessary to forget about Him. How can He expect our attention and commitment if we never see any evidence of His existence or caring? If we could just see an example of His righteousness and power then maybe we humans would be more willing to focus on Him. God has unequivocally failed us and I despise Him because of this. I refuse to bow to any divinely inspired system of belief because of these undeniable weaknesses that I have listed. It is unreasonable to follow God or any spiritual path. Some would call this rebellion and it probably is. But, I have made my choice. If I ever face God (as most mainstream religions envision) then I will have to answer for these blasphemies just as He will have to answer for His shortcomings.

Even though my belief in God and His alleged divine mandate are very consistent with most mainstream monotheistic religions, I have always had an ardent disdain for most religious people. I think that if someone is choosing to devote their life to something as profound and all-encompassing as a belief in a supernatural power (and the important realizations that come along with this) then they should have a sharp intellect and they should be completely cognizant of the gravity of what they are doing. Every once in a while I will come into contact with a religious person who has a powerful mind and a great understanding of his beliefs. But, more often than not I encounter religious people who are too stupid to think things through for themselves, who half-heartedly practice their faith only to avoid supernatural punishment or because it is all they have ever known, or who are too weak and scared to face the harsh realities of the world so they putridly and obsequiously grovel before a system of thought that has conveniently laid a path out for them. It seems that to think for one’s self is much too arduous for most people.

If we humans choose to not look toward the divine then we can look to our own ideas. We can choose to follow a man-made ideology. But, man-made systems of thought have their origins within flawed human brains, they are purely subjective, and therefore are devoid of any absolute legitimacy and this completely nullifies any claim to correctness or righteousness. Human-inspired ideology is empty and only an incontestable divine mandate that has been instituted by a higher power or a naturally occurring phenomenon meets the needed requirements to be termed Absolute Truth.

It's not that religious or ideological people are inherently stupid; it's that people in general are inherently stupid and thus any movement will be full of stupid people. Granted, every movement has charismatic or intelligent people who craft flowery and articulate viewpoints. But, most people involved in any movement are merely followers who want an easy-to-understand belief system laid out for them where they don't need to think things through for themselves. The complexities of the world and the mysteries of existence are too much for most people to ponder and thus they want somebody else to figure it out and explain it for them. They want easy-to-identify classifications and descriptions that will guide their viewpoints, beliefs, and actions. Viewing the world in black and white is comforting and it feels righteous, but it is not realistic.

I have determined that Absolute Truth either doesn't exist or it is unknowable and therefore unattainable. Because of this there is no valid option left but nihilism and the abyss of nothingness. The lack of order completely negates meaning or purpose to our existence and this is disheartening. Men seem to function best when they have some type of structure that gives coherence to their desires and to the world in general. But, I must admit that the possibility of the lack of order is simultaneously intriguing because any and all behaviors would be permissible.

I desire strongly to unravel the meaning of life; to discern what humans should do and to provide evidence for it. I have been unable to do this. And it is disheartening to know that much more intelligent men than I have failed in attempting the same thing. The only thing that can really be seen and felt are our instincts and human tendencies. I am desperately searching for some inkling of meaning in this life. But, I have a morbid fear that I will choose the wrong thing or that if I find the correct thing I will fail even if I tried. I do not seriously devote myself to any truth or meaning but I also do not embrace the freedom that comes along with nothingness. I yearn for meaning but I have too much pride to give up my free will to some structure. I am enthralled by the excitement of nothingness but I do not have the strength nor the rigor needed to survive or excel without meaning. I am held in limbo by an insurmountable paradox.

[/end essay]


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OfflineMuffin
Ancient God of Chaos

Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 211
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: God is not real. [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7727211 - 12/07/07 01:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

That is not me then. I don't think we know the truth. but I think there is one. I once met a girl that said she thought whatever you believe in is what happens to you when you die. I thought that was an excuse not to have to think about it. I do on the other hand believe that you have the right to think what you want. Just don't expect me to buy it.


--------------------


Civil disobedience is insufficient.


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InvisibleNoetical
Flip Horrorshow


Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9,230
Re: God is not real. [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7727215 - 12/07/07 01:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Muff
Randal put it well...

You know I haven't touched much of JJ but this pretty eqyptian girl really likes Emile.

In a couple weeks I'll be reading the Social Contract and the Discourse on Inequality.


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