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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Blend]
#7731640 - 12/08/07 01:29 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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i think thats one of thos eduh kinda thinga the fact that every thing is existing alll at once smewhere s my current personal theroy
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Desu


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 29
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Blend]
#7731692 - 12/08/07 01:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said:
Quote:
learningtofly said: If reality is subjective than God does and does not exist at the same time...
I think this is a vital point.
Subjective......up to a point........right? Did you read my previous post?
We know other things can be proven to exist via science.....like sporks......they exist.......right?
I really don't know why people like making this so complicated. They turn it from being a conscious god that thinks and governs the world, in to abstract ideas and how god is some vague undefinable thing.
This thread was asking about a *conscious* *alive* being some where in heaven governing the people of planet Earth, of which science has not been able to prove exists.
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Walter1496211
Window Washer



Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 639
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Desu]
#7731720 - 12/08/07 02:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Who Can define what is real for someone else? I know God is real. Does that change what you believe? No.. It doesn't. Reality is the choice you make when you decide that its worth living every day, when your death is as sure as the sun rising in the morning. I know God is real the proof for me is not necessary. But for you truth is believing that your eyes see color in a black and white world who can say what is real.. People who are born color blind don't find out until they are in there early teens.. Was what they saw for the years before any less real than what you see every day?
-------------------- you see the world through the window of your experience
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Desu


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 29
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Walter1496211 said: People who are born color blind don't find out until they are in there early teens.. Was what they saw for the years before any less real than what you see every day?
....Beautiful....
..And yet, it is undeniable that no matter how subjective you wish our realities to be, there are some *MUTUAL* aspects between our realities. *I* can affect *you* in some way, right? It is POSSIBLE to say that some thing might exist to both you *AND* me. Do cats exist in your reality? WOW what a coincidence, they exist in my reality too!
Having realized this.........is it not possible for a god (let's say the Christian god just for fun!) might either be existent or non-existent to *BOTH* of us?
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Walter1496211
Window Washer



Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 639
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Desu]
#7731763 - 12/08/07 02:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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It depends on our point of view.. entirely. you can say that there is no proof but to me the stars in the sky and the rotation of the earth conforming to the existence of life on earth. That would be proof to me but to you its a coincidence. Cats may exist.. But I don't own one and our reality's might be the same but your cat wont feel comfortable in my home because it would not be what I choose to live with.
Edited by Walter1496211 (12/08/07 02:31 AM)
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AlCapwn
ID Reset, take that subpoena


Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2,957
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Desu]
#7731790 - 12/08/07 02:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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God is a living (living?) paradox. Example: The ability to improve one's self could be considered a very desirable trait. However, if god is already perfect, he cannot self improve. What we can conclude is that, god can never be perfect because a perfect god would have the ability to make himself better all the time.
I personally think god could quite possibly exist. If he does, though, he is immensely misinterpreted (because the human mind couldn't ever even remotely understand true omnipotence.)
For Christians to deny evolution is stupid. Everything evolves, and it's observable from the present and the past. This is not to say that god did not create evolution. However, if god was perfect, he could have made us perfect from the start. Nonetheless, there is a very large force behind evolution. Whether you believe it to be god, or the universe, I can respect that. (Perhaps the same thing, no?)
Here's where I'm at with my beliefs right now. They constantly change and evolve, but it's usually just because I add another facet of understanding to them:
I think everything in existence exists in all dimensions. Everything in the second dimension exists in the third, everything in the third exists in the fourth and so on. This includes ourselves. We are not, as humans, exempt from this by some miraculous law of physics. This means we hypothetically have a physical fourth, fifth etc.. dimension extension to our physical selves. This means we, as humans, can evolve in all dimensions except perhaps the last dimension. (dunno, haven't been) I think god might be just another primitive being so evolved over time, he transcended his physical self (something humans might achieve if we were to survive an astronomically long time) and is pulling the strings in another dimension. He might have super advanced human-like traits such as an evolved, complex form of empathy for example. God has feelings too. This is all hypothetical, of course.
I have more elaborate reasonings and explanations, but I don't want to write a book here.
-------------------- Huuuuurrrrrr!
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Walter1496211
Window Washer



Registered: 09/09/07
Posts: 639
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: God is not real. [Re: AlCapwn]
#7731807 - 12/08/07 02:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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And what if God were a man that learned an infinite lesson from an infinite amount of different experiences not improving not diminishing but gradually adapting to each infinite situation in order to continue a new and powerful form of existence every day a new form of matter is created and life and matter all feel its effects eternal existence means becoming part of what continues and forgetting what dies.
-------------------- you see the world through the window of your experience
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sam420
CertifiedReptilianOverlord



Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 3,144
Loc: Scotland
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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we are God
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i'm a spy huntin rap dinosaur from the future
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AlCapwn
ID Reset, take that subpoena


Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2,957
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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This is entirely possible, because the concept of better or worse is a human machination when in fact, there is only different.
-------------------- Huuuuurrrrrr!
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Desu


Registered: 12/07/07
Posts: 29
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: AlCapwn]
#7731825 - 12/08/07 02:55 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
AlCapwn said: Here's where I'm at with my beliefs right now. They constantly change and evolve, but it's usually just because I add another facet of understanding to them
I sense an open mind. And some interesting theories.
When will we finally know I wonder.
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AlCapwn
ID Reset, take that subpoena


Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2,957
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Desu]
#7731848 - 12/08/07 03:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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As soon as we evolve enough to either communicate with or see, I'm assuming. As of now, it's all speculation. Nothing wrong with that though, as speculation leads to understanding.
-------------------- Huuuuurrrrrr!
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: AlCapwn]
#7731921 - 12/08/07 04:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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God, Santa, Easter Bunny. They are all the same.
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EllisDSox
King Hella!

Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 25,730
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Quote:
God, Santa, Easter Bunny. They are all the same.
Except one is a fat man who brings presents, one is a rabbit, and one is sending you to hell for that comment.
Seriously, though, God isn't a substantial thing. You cannot prove or disprove God anymore than you can have objective proof for love or enlightenment. I think the idea of God comes from an archetypal human experience of total happiness, bliss and a feeling of being embraced by an all-pervasive loving force. The experience and its importance cannot be denied.
Whether or not this experience has anything to do with an angry man who destroys people for "sins" cannot be proven either, but essentially God is more of a state of mind than anything external. Whether the mystical experience is seen as something internal, which floods the external world with love and light, or as a union with something external isn't all that significant, really.
In my opinion, what's important is the mystical experience and what we can bring back from that to improve the world- to flood the universe with our own inner light, if you will. People who are looking for an authoritarian father figure (whether to believe in him or disprove his existence) are, in my opinion, on a fruitless quest.
What's true is that, if a certain state of mind is reached and maintained, one's universe becomes flooded with what a Christian would call Divine Light. Hinduism and Buddhism differ significantly only in that Buddhism sees the all-pervasive enlightened consciousness as a phenomena of mind rather than the thoughts of an all powerful conscious being.
No one can ever prove or disprove God, or the world would either be totally atheistic or full of believers. Rational arguments for or against the existence of God, particularly the trash spouted by Descartes are just frustrating sophistry. God is simply one way in which to interpret the mystical experience. Blind faith and blind atheism are equally stupid.
-------------------- Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.
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TurntableJunky
Ethno Grower



Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 4,742
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: God is not real. [Re: EllisDSox]
#7731941 - 12/08/07 05:04 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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God is teh ghey.
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truffleupagus


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,103
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I just thought of something.
Not too long ago my dog, a husky, almost ate my cat. We were trying to see if we could train them to get along with each other (rather than keeping them separated) and things got out of hand.
Basically, my cat took off and my dog's high prey drive kicked in. The cat was literally inside my dog's mouth. I'm embarassed to say that I was in such a panicky state of shock that it took me a minute to respond and grab my dog by his collar.
If we're just looking at pure instinct, there's no reason my dog shouldn't have killed the cat that night. He definitely had ample time to do more damage than he did. So if that's not the most perfect example of why there might be a God, I don't know what is.
If we had to mourn the loss of our cat that night in such a heinous way as that would have been, I'm about positive I would have entirely lost my faith.
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Isaac
Jive Ass Turkey


Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 705
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: God is not real. [Re: Disco Cat]
#7735611 - 12/09/07 07:11 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Disco Cat said: Um, excuse me, but if God isn't real then wtf did Jesus come from? You lose, lawl wut.
Jesus was just some crazy Jew that thought he was the son of God.
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undergrounder
fluffy bunny



Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 1,394
Loc: Sydney
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Quote:
truffleupagus said: I just thought of something.
Not too long ago my dog, a husky, almost ate my cat. We were trying to see if we could train them to get along with each other (rather than keeping them separated) and things got out of hand.
Basically, my cat took off and my dog's high prey drive kicked in. The cat was literally inside my dog's mouth. I'm embarassed to say that I was in such a panicky state of shock that it took me a minute to respond and grab my dog by his collar.
If we're just looking at pure instinct, there's no reason my dog shouldn't have killed the cat that night. He definitely had ample time to do more damage than he did. So if that's not the most perfect example of why there might be a God, I don't know what is.
If we had to mourn the loss of our cat that night in such a heinous way as that would have been, I'm about positive I would have entirely lost my faith.
Your dog didn't eat your cat because he didn't like the taste.
By the way, 'DOG' is ... backwards, for ... GOD!!
OMG!! Your dog is God! It's a sign! repent! repent!
Seriously though you clearly don't want to lose your faith in God, so how can you objectively decide for yourself whether God exists unless you disregard your own personal needs? If you want to truly find the truth you need to be able to pretend that you would accept it for what it is.
I personally believe that 'God' represents a human psychological need for reassurance in the face of death. Religion started because some people just can't deal with their owm mortality and so invented an afterlife for themselves. The rest just followed the religion because they were told to.
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RIP Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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not only that but the dog might not of been trying to EAT it, so much as prey, but play with the cat. my dogs chase my cats all the time and take them down but never do anything after (they let the cats go)
and some dogs instincts ARNT to kill the animal but subdue it so that the hunters can get it. for example we used to have chickens and our yorkshire terriers would be let out if the chickens ever escaped because they wouldnt harm them but would chase them down and hold their wings/bodies down with their front paws and wait for us to come over and get them.
so, it could just be animalistic instincts :-\
(i don't object that god may exist though)
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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truffleupagus


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,103
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Quote:
undergrounder said: Religion started because some people just can't deal with their owm mortality and so invented an afterlife for themselves. The rest just followed the religion because they were told to.
Well I happen to think that the afterlife is for real but that's just me. I think love also exists in the afterlife but my hope is that love is a much less complicated thing in the hereafter.
All I was saying is that it would have been difficult to maintain my belief in God and the afterlife had I been forced to clean up a bloody mess of the feline that we adore so much (as stupid as that would have been of me, for whatever reason).
I'm still a little surprised at the amount of nonbelievers on here though. Everybody wants to talk about astral projection which is, as near as I can figure, an outward manifestation of the spirit. But then somebody's gonna tell me that the spirit dies right along with the body. To that, I'm gonna tell them that I think they're dumb.
But honestly, I think the afterlife can maybe be as real or not real as the individual desires. I stay open like fallopian.
Edited by TDOTupagus (12/09/07 08:50 AM)
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truffleupagus


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,103
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Re: God is not real. [Re: igwna]
#7735727 - 12/09/07 08:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
skcorrelyt said: not only that but the dog might not of been trying to EAT it, so much as prey, but play with the cat. my dogs chase my cats all the time and take them down but never do anything after (they let the cats go)
Yeah, what kind of dogs do you have though? My dog's a hunter. He's killed numerous wild critters and I actually witnessed him almost kill a stray cat once. He didn't want to play with that thing. He wanted dinner. A lot depends on the breed I think.
We keep the dog and cat separate now though just to be on the safe side.
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