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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Omaha Shooter was Medicated
    #7726168 - 12/06/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Before this side of the story disappears down the memory hole, there is a witness account that nineteen year old Robert Hawkins had been taking anti-depressants, likely SSRIs. (Associated Press)

Once again, it appears to be another case of a violent shooting committed by an American youth that is linked with the use of serotonergic pharmaceutical drugs. And not for the first time is the link completely disregarded by the MSM.

How often do these kinds of incidents need to occur for us to realize the connection?

Guns are triggered by fingers. Fingers are linked via a series of nerves to a brain, and if that brain is altered by psychiatric drugs which were never even tested on children, then you've got a very real indicator of the problem.

Enormous evidence connects mind-altering prescription drugs with violent acts.

I grieve for the families of those lost to pharmaceutically-induced violence, but the truth is that until we stop drugging our children with psychotropic drugs, the shootings are not going to stop.

There is really nothing at all to be surprised about here.


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OfflineXeluc
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7726178 - 12/06/07 08:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

FUCK Pharms.
Cept opiates.
And Xanax.
I'm no kid though, fool.


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Offlinemoses
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7726180 - 12/06/07 08:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I agree about the medication...that stuff can make some people pretty weird. But you make it sound like there are one of these shootings every day because someone is taking anti-depressants lol. It is a rare thing.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7726181 - 12/06/07 08:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Some of those drugs are pure fucking evil. I was on a couple handfuls of them for a while in my youth.. I felt what they were doing to me and I stopped taking them completely, against the will of my parents and the shrinks. But I know if I had stayed on those things I would have freaked out on a watchtower or something eventually.


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Offlinemoses
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: Shroomism]
    #7726189 - 12/06/07 08:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Same here man...they totally change the way I think. They make me a completely different person. It often made the condition worst than what it was.


Edited by moses (12/06/07 08:44 PM)


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Invisiblesupercollider
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7726192 - 12/06/07 08:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Do you have any links for statistics on violent behavior and antidepressants?

I'm sure the conventional wisdom is that these drugs save a lot more people than they hurt. If you want to convince me otherwise, I'd be interested to see the evidence.


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Supercollider? I just met her!


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7726209 - 12/06/07 08:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Blame the drugs huh?  Sounds like proponents of our current prohibition...  Fuck that  :thumbdown:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: moses]
    #7726216 - 12/06/07 08:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yep.
I was on Depakote, Zyprexa, Zoloft, Neurontin (sp?), and Paxil.. all at at different times, some of them at the same time.. like some kind of fucked up psychotropic cocktail.. except they had no fucking clue what they do to you. That shit made me crazier than I already was. But what they never thought to figure out was that I was just a fucked up relatively normal teenager because I needed someone to talk to, not to be over-medicated with all kinds of extremely mind-altering psychotropic drugs.. that shit fucked me up. Also made me lose a LOT of faith in the industry and my parents.


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Offlinemikeytro
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: DieCommie]
    #7726223 - 12/06/07 08:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I feel the drugs are a catalyst
in the end it is the person though


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"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Einstein


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: Shroomism]
    #7726234 - 12/06/07 08:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting shit...


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Jesus loves you.


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: DieCommie]
    #7726256 - 12/06/07 08:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Blame the drugs huh?  Sounds like proponents of our current prohibition...  Fuck that  :thumbdown:




No, the drugs aren't to blame. That would be ridiculous.

Responsibility goes to ourselves first and foremost, and secondly to the corporations who are not being honest about the adverse effects of the drugs they produce.


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InvisibleRobo
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7726295 - 12/06/07 09:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I took SSRI's for a while and they didn't do a thing to me, good or bad. Had no noticable effect on my mood,personality,thoughts,etc. whatsoever. Just goes to show everyone is different, I guess. Perhaps I was misdiagnosed and didn't have depression as a result of neurochemical imbalance after all, shit maybe I never even had depression. Who knows :shrug:

It's very sad that these heavily medicated kids are taking others lives and their own, but you can't place the blame all on the drug. That was the whole Columbine deal; blame the media, blame the drugs, blame the parents. Whatever happened to just not being right in the head?


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: supercollider]
    #7726313 - 12/06/07 09:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

supercollider said:
Do you have any links for statistics on violent behavior and antidepressants?




http://www.ssristories.com/index.php

You will find more evidence linking anti-depressant medication to violent tendencies than evidence claiming the contrary.

I am not saying that everyone who takes these drugs will react the same way. There are many other factors that contribute as well such as diet and life experience. But I am saying that the effects of them do make the possibility a lot more likely.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: Robo]
    #7726315 - 12/06/07 09:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm on Zoloft, and it really has helped my depression. But then again, I'm no teenager. I will agree they do overprescribe SSRI's in many cases.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: Robo]
    #7726320 - 12/06/07 09:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Certainly personal responsibility is the first and foremost, but we can't just ignore the fact that these drugs are WAY over-prescribed and misdiagnosis is as common as air. As well that they appear to have different effects on different people. Sometimes they make the problem worse. Certainly they do help some people.. but they didn't help me :shrug:


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InvisibleRobo
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: Shroomism]
    #7726345 - 12/06/07 09:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
misdiagnosis is as common as air.



:yesnod:


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: Shroomism]
    #7726351 - 12/06/07 09:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I am curious to see what the result would be if doctors ended the medication and began prescribing a radical change in diet that supports healthy brain chemistry aka raw, living foods and daily green food smoothies, fresh vegetable juices, raw nuts and seeds and other wholesome, non-processed foods.

Of course, the FDA dictates that nutrition is no cure or else it would have to be classified as a drug. Faulty semantics it seems. Fuck the FDA.


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7726379 - 12/06/07 09:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Antidepressants may make your life worse, but I won't detour the blame away from that dipshit.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7726385 - 12/06/07 09:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
Fuck the FDA.




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Offlineshroom_ninja
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: Shroomism]
    #7726410 - 12/06/07 09:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Just playing devil's advocate here, but it's quite possible that there would be more violent behavior from these individuals had they not had any medication, given the fact that they usually undergo some type of dramatic episode(s) to warrant the medications in the first place. I generally disapprove of pharmaceutical drugs being prescribed on a whim, but it is my opinion that they do prevent many suicides and violent episodes. It could possibly be argued that people with "disorders" who flip out simply needed -more- medicine, and their violent displays are evidence of such.

Also, remember that while pharmaceutical companies are in fact businesses that have profit in mind, they are also human beings, who are in a business of making drugs to help people. While things can and do go wrong, and bad apples can and do exist, I believe that on the whole, generalized blame for these instances are not a fault of the companies, they are simply a bi-product of a risky business: medicine.

Further, remember that mind-altering drugs are rarely "cures". With disorders like depression, you could compare it to a puzzle with a missing piece. Medicines like SSRIs are not a replacement piece, which "fix" people. They are simply drugs that have a balancing effect with the negative symptoms of disorders and diseases. Expecting a 100% perfect "cure" for brain-related problems is expecting too much from a field which is still in its infant stages: neurology.

One last point before forum perusers skim over this giant wall of text:

Remember that these "disorders" like depression and ADD are not only inherent parts of human evolution, but they can also be direct results of cultural and environmental problems. Blaming the "cure" for not being effective enough is both inappropriate and irrational, when the cause for the problems are both natural and fostered by the American way-of-life. Lastly, I will point out the harsh, but obvious truth. When in nature, an animal is born missing a leg, it doesn't reproduce and impose the need to support its genetically flawed offspring (and their offspring too) upon their species. Humans do this, and if we're going to continue doing this, we're going to have to accept that cancer, mental disorders, and weak immune systems are going to continue to become more and more common among us.


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7726601 - 12/06/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Blame the drugs huh?  Sounds like proponents of our current prohibition...  Fuck that  :thumbdown:




No, the drugs aren't to blame. That would be ridiculous.

Responsibility goes to ourselves first and foremost, and secondly to the corporations who are not being honest about the adverse effects of the drugs they produce.


  So by that logic, would the cocaine dealer who's junkie murders a shop keeper be 'secondly' liable for the murder?  Would an ecstasy dealer be 'secondly' liable for the dehydration and death of a teen in a night club?  I personally dont think so, but I can see the argument you might have that they are.


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Offlineemrandel
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: shroom_ninja]
    #7726672 - 12/06/07 10:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I went through some serious depression as a kid... like most people growing up. I took a lot of different anti-depressants that either did nothing or just fucked with my head. I stopped quickly and distanced myself from all doctors that recommended them. I took change upon myself. You know what changed my life? Mushrooms, LSD, and MDMA... the experiences I had caused me to have revelations in regards to life that never left me. I just had this realization, that no matter what happens... I'm completely in control of my personal happiness. Ever since my life has been different. Of course I've been down sometimes... but it was easy for me to realign my mind and accept my situation as it was and rediscover personal happiness regardless of what was happening around me. Now today, no matter what happens, I can still crack an authentic smile and cruise on looking onwards towards the future.


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"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, green and love of power!" - P.J. O'Rourke


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: emrandel]
    #7726702 - 12/06/07 10:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:smile::thumbup:


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Invisibleivi
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7726724 - 12/06/07 10:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AlteredAgain said:
Enormous evidence connects mind-altering prescription drugs with violent acts.




Well, evidence also connects violent media with violent acts (see here and here). What causes violent actions is a complex of numerous factors, non of which should be singled out.





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Offlineshroom_ninja
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Re: Omaha Shooter was Medicated [Re: DieCommie]
    #7726796 - 12/06/07 11:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I would say that the person who murders someone is firstly responsible for the murder. The drug dealer would indeed be "secondly" responsible, if not farther down the line, after societal influences, parents/childhood, financial causes, etc.

Drug violence is really not related to the debate though. I see how you're comparing the two here, but it isn't a good comparison. I do strongly agree with you that drug companies could definitely be more honest about side-effects, let there be no mistake.

However, I don't think they should be held responsible when they fail to cure something that would/could have very likely been a far worse scenario without their involvement.

The way I see it, if 1 in 100,000 depression sufferers commit dramatic violent acts, or commit suicide, directly caused by the medication, then I would say that the fact that without any medication whatsoever, that number would probably be a lot higher.

Case in point, you are correct. Pharmaceutical companies need to be up-front about risks and side-effects, and need to study them more closely, but they should be given the same general rights as a doctor who tries to save a car-crash patient but fails. The doctor wasn't responsible for the crash. Cars are, road conditions are, weather is, the driver(s) are, alcohol might be, etc. A doctors mistake could cost someone their life, but only because the patient put that responsibility upon the doctor in the first place.

The same goes for anti-depression medication.
(IMO)


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