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Invisiblearghbilly
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Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 45
Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: all_for_war]
    #11931723 - 01/30/10 07:12 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

all_for_war said:
Quote:

arghbilly said:
Quote:

all_for_war said:
Quote:

arghbilly said:


DEA only ever gets convictions from coercion and entrapment.



so what




so maybe don't entrap yourself and you won't have any problems?



impossible




maybe for you. when I sold seeds and bud cross border, no customer had any problems even if the shipment was seized since there was nothing in there to prove they ordered it.

no entrapment/admission of guilt = no conviction.


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Offlineall_for_war
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Registered: 10/28/09
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: arghbilly]
    #11932578 - 01/30/10 09:32 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

plus seeds arnt illegal in canada so ur safe.

but if they intercept and than the customer accepts the package......cant they get raided like yuh huh

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Invisiblearghbilly
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Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 45
Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: all_for_war]
    #11933557 - 01/31/10 01:18 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

all_for_war said:
but if they intercept and than the customer accepts the package......cant they get raided like yuh huh




only if there's proof you ordered it, like an invoice in it clearly stating you bought it when they open it up. 

as far as I know no attempts were made to con the buyers into signing for the seeds, so I guess a signature wasn't good enough evidence for the DEA to bother. Emery's forums had always warned against signing for the stealth letters anyways nobody would've signed hence the western union scheme the DEA came up with.

some people did reply to the DEA scam letter but nothing happened to them because they didn't wire any money since Emery got the word out he was busted right away on the forums and website.

if they did let the letters through, they can't kick in your door 3 days later and arrest you for it. how are they going to get a warrant? maybe if there was payment records on Emery's servers they seized (nothing was on there) with your name and address on it. mail is the #1 way to go

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Offlineall_for_war
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: arghbilly]
    #11933597 - 01/31/10 01:32 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

arghbilly said:
Quote:

all_for_war said:
but if they intercept and than the customer accepts the package......cant they get raided like yuh huh




only if there's proof you ordered it, like an invoice in it clearly stating you bought it when they open it up. 

as far as I know no attempts were made to con the buyers into signing for the seeds, so I guess a signature wasn't good enough evidence for the DEA to bother. Emery's forums had always warned against signing for the stealth letters anyways nobody would've signed hence the western union scheme the DEA came up with.

some people did reply to the DEA scam letter but nothing happened to them because they didn't wire any money since Emery got the word out he was busted right away on the forums and website.

if they did let the letters through, they can't kick in your door 3 days later and arrest you for it. how are they going to get a warrant? maybe if there was payment records on Emery's servers they seized (nothing was on there) with your name and address on it. mail is the #1 way to go



lol since i watched the show "DEA" this makes me an expert. ANd in one epidsode they intercepted a package with about 22 kilos of cocaine and did a set up where they delivered it and after he accepted the package he got raided and arrested.....

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Invisiblearghbilly
noU

Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 45
Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: all_for_war]
    #11933648 - 01/31/10 01:53 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

cocaine is a different class of controlled substance, maybe that gives them enough cause to search but that doesn't make sense. suppose you wanted to set somebody up, you could just mail them some blow and they'd go to jail although 22kilos is huge.

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Offlineall_for_war
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: arghbilly]
    #11933679 - 01/31/10 02:01 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

arghbilly said:
cocaine is a different class of controlled substance, maybe that gives them enough cause to search but that doesn't make sense. suppose you wanted to set somebody up, you could just mail them some blow and they'd go to jail although 22kilos is huge.



drugs are drugs in the DEA's eyes

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OfflineDryGrain
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Principles; Work in Progress [Re: all_for_war]
    #11933683 - 01/31/10 02:02 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Great write-up!

I would add that private shippers such as Fedex and UPS do not need a warrant to open a package, when you sign the shipping label, the small print on the back includes the clause that they may open any package at any time for any reason. I did not know that only First-class, Express, and Priority mail required a warrant, I thought the protection extended to everything sent in the U.S. Mail.


--------------------
:atom:

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Offlineall_for_war
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Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Principles; Work in Progress [Re: DryGrain]
    #11933730 - 01/31/10 02:15 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DryGrain said:
Great write-up!

I would add that private shippers such as Fedex and UPS do not need a warrant to open a package, when you sign the shipping label, the small print on the back includes the clause that they may open any package at any time for any reason. I did not know that only First-class, Express, and Priority mail required a warrant, I thought the protection extended to everything sent in the U.S. Mail.



none of them require a warrent when shipping or receiving internationally. and i dont think that they even need a warrent for nationally sent mail.

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OfflineKillaFoRilla
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Principles; Work in Progress [Re: all_for_war]
    #12034907 - 02/15/10 03:53 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Its odd given the latest few stories about cops being killed for at random. Coincidence? I dunno, but I just hope the bad ones get shot. :mad2:


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OfflineDryGrain
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Principles; Work in Progress [Re: all_for_war]
    #12037707 - 02/16/10 12:31 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

all_for_war said:
Quote:

DryGrain said:
Great write-up!

I would add that private shippers such as Fedex and UPS do not need a warrant to open a package, when you sign the shipping label, the small print on the back includes the clause that they may open any package at any time for any reason. I did not know that only First-class, Express, and Priority mail required a warrant, I thought the protection extended to everything sent in the U.S. Mail.



none of them require a warrent when shipping or receiving internationally. and i dont think that they even need a warrent for nationally sent mail.




To open U.S. mail that is not addressed to you is a federal crime, requiring law enforcement to get a warrant signed by a judge of a federal court.


--------------------
:atom:

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InvisibleAction Jackson
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Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 213
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: johnm214]
    #12838401 - 07/02/10 03:29 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Do packages containing chocolates get scanned by some machine that determines if there's something else in the package other than chocolate?

Let's say my friend wants to send me some fruity chocolate that has fruit in the chocolates, but let's assume this fruit is banned from my country for whatever reason.

Is it possible that customs put packages through a scanner machine thing that detects these fruits/drugs/whatever is banned?

Let's say the fruit is crushed up and put into this chocolate, would it be found out?


--------------------
"It is by no means an irrational fancy that, in a future existence, we shall look upon what we think our present existence, as a dream."
- Edgar Allan Poe

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: Action Jackson]
    #12843224 - 07/03/10 01:37 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

LOL:rolleyes:

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Principles; Work in Progress [Re: all_for_war]
    #13040067 - 08/12/10 03:16 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Quote:

if you were not read your rights, it can be found on the copcarcam, as well as your arrest, in which they clearly abused their power as law enforcers (very commonly done), and thus will most likely get your charges wiped clean




Funny that this is posted in this thread. Dumbasses are always saying stuff like this.

99.9999895% of the time it doesn't matter jack shit if they read you your rights or not. All getting your rights read to you matters is if they want to question you AFTER you're arrested. Otherwise it doesn't matter jack shit, and why would they arrest you if they didn't already have enough on you?

They can use anything you said before you were arrested and anything you say after you've been read your rights....
-FF




Yeah, I agree.  (The question fred was responding to was addressed in the original post).

People really don't get the Miranda thing.  As Fred said, all it does is AT BEST make certain statements inadmissable, these will be things the suspect said after being arrested (reasonably believed to be arrested) if he didn't intelligently waive his rights to silence and lawyer.  There will NEVER be a case where the failure to properly Mirandize someone means the case must be dismissed as a legal matter (absent some extraordinary situation where the Miranda issues are inextrably tied to the case as a whole, there's really no never in the law, but this is about as close as you get to that).  When people speak of such things, they really mean the suppression of statements made the state decide to drop the charges/court threw it out  due to lack of sufficient evidence to try the case/support the conviction.

As Fred said, Miranda is seldom a dispositive issue.  Even if you win, people that talk to cops (everybody) are the same people that talk to cops prior to the arrest or after the Mirandizing and all the other evidence can still come in.  Your "best friend" will still testify against you and so will the cops that seized evidence and saw your shady ass doing sketchy things.
Quote:

all_for_war said:
i didnt actually read OP's entire post but just incase you didnt add this. All cops lie at one point or another and sadly when its your word against a cops the courts usually side with the cop. for example getting reasonable cause to search your car they can just say they smelled marijuana smoke even if there is no smell. Or if they are at your door and for some reason suspect you for having drugs in the house but dont have enough evidence for reasonable cause they will make up an excuse like "i smelled marijuana smoke" etc....cops are people and people lie.




I agree with you (though I'm sure there are many cops that don't intentionally falsely testify/report, the power of the human mind to rationalize antisocial conduct is without bounds- the same reason the criminals commit terrible crimes is the same reason cops lie, people have a need to feel they are in the right and justify their actions/impulses).

I would clarify though that this post is about the law, and the issues you deal with are ones of fact or practicality.  It is a shame that cops lie and courts believe them/grant them too much credibility, but that doesn't have anything to do with the law per se, so it isn't addressed.

This post deals with what lies they have to tell, not with whether they can lie, to get the arrest/warrant/conviction, et cet.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: all_for_war]
    #13040085 - 08/12/10 03:34 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

arghbilly said:
Quote:

all_for_war said:
but if they intercept and than the customer accepts the package......cant they get raided like yuh huh




only if there's proof you ordered it, like an invoice in it clearly stating you bought it when they open it up. 

as far as I know no attempts were made to con the buyers into signing for the seeds, so I guess a signature wasn't good enough evidence for the DEA to bother. Emery's forums had always warned against signing for the stealth letters anyways nobody would've signed hence the western union scheme the DEA came up with.

some people did reply to the DEA scam letter but nothing happened to them because they didn't wire any money since Emery got the word out he was busted right away on the forums and website.





Shipment and the law is a big misunderstanding:

You don't have to sign anything to be convicted of ordering, posessing et cet  You don't have to sign anything to get raided or a warrant.  In the world of search and seizure, there is very little that has to be proven per se, the name of the game is "reasonable" and "probable" and that doesn't give you much absolute prohibitions to rely on.

Generally, the confusion lies in the use of anticipatory warrants, something used often in federal cases/mail cases.  These allege that probable cause doesn't exist but will exist at some point (such as after the suspect recieves delivery) and the warrant is granted under the condititon that the allege circumstance comes to fruition.  Just because the warrant may require deliver to be effective doesn't mean that another warrant for search couldn't be obtained and it surely doesn't mean that you can't be indicted and convicted without such. 

Quote:


if they did let the letters through, they can't kick in your door 3 days later and arrest you for it. how are they going to get a warrant? maybe if there was payment records on Emery's servers they seized (nothing was on there) with your name and address on it. mail is the #1 way to go




Sure they can, why couldn't they?  Why do you think they need "proof" of anything at all?  A money order sent to a known drug trafficker with payment for drugs that was in response to a solicitation for such is more than enough evidence to get a warrant.  What exactly do they need to have, a signed confession?  Seems to me that's what you'd be giving them anyways, sans signature.

Quote:

all_for_war said:
Quote:

arghbilly said:
cocaine is a different class of controlled substance, maybe that gives them enough cause to search but that doesn't make sense. suppose you wanted to set somebody up, you could just mail them some blow and they'd go to jail although 22kilos is huge.



drugs are drugs in the DEA's eyes




Well, the DEA dicks around in politics, but your point is well taken.  In the eyes of the law, there is no difference.  The same evidence that can get you raided for a murder case can get you raided for a speeding case.  People should be careful to not conflate the discretion of the investigatory/prosecutorial body with the confines of the law.  Just cuz they won't drop in to your pad from black helicopters to investigate a speeding ticket doesn't mean they can't.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: Action Jackson]
    #13040099 - 08/12/10 03:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DryGrain said:
Quote:

all_for_war said:
Quote:

DryGrain said:
Great write-up!

I would add that private shippers such as Fedex and UPS do not need a warrant to open a package, when you sign the shipping label, the small print on the back includes the clause that they may open any package at any time for any reason. I did not know that only First-class, Express, and Priority mail required a warrant, I thought the protection extended to everything sent in the U.S. Mail.



none of them require a warrent when shipping or receiving internationally. and i dont think that they even need a warrent for nationally sent mail.




To open U.S. mail that is not addressed to you is a federal crime, requiring law enforcement to get a warrant signed by a judge of a federal court.





Please read the writeup.

You say that opening mail that isn't addressed to you is a federal crime as if that means something in context of the situation discussed- how so?

Lets say your correct, now your sitting in jail because someone opened your mail illegally... What are you going to do about it?  Nothing, that's what.  The fact that soemone else commirted a crime has nothing to do with whether you did nor the legality of your conviction.  This is a common misconception that people have and is addressed in the original post:  cops break the law all the time, its not going to help you get off just cuz they commited a crime.


As to the earlier posts, I did addressess the issue of USPS and private shippers.  See the original post  basically everything in the USPS mailstream is protected to some degree, however; warrants are required per se only for First Class, Priority, and Express service classes.  Exceptions exist
Quote:

Action Jackson said:
Do packages containing chocolates get scanned by some machine that determines if there's something else in the package other than chocolate?

Let's say my friend wants to send me some fruity chocolate that has fruit in the chocolates, but let's assume this fruit is banned from my country for whatever reason.

Is it possible that customs put packages through a scanner machine thing that detects these fruits/drugs/whatever is banned?

Let's say the fruit is crushed up and put into this chocolate, would it be found out?




What's possible and what's realistic are very, very far apart.  A better question would be whether these are reasonable concerns, and the answer would seem to be no, as Fred said

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Offlinepsychnaught420
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: johnm214]
    #25376406 - 08/09/18 03:05 AM (5 years, 7 months ago)

So what about this site? Is the message boards saved or monitered? I mean you never know who your'e talking to it coukd be someone you shouldn't be lol, but anyways you mention people scared of admitting guilt of anything, however everyone I see on here posting stuff, anyone  that posts anything about themselves and they're obviously saying it's someone else like swim or my buddy or the dog or whatever Etc... everybody gets all mad and upset and bashes them for doing it and then they get barely any replies  get no replies on their post. Its always made me wonder.... why would someone get mad at someone just asking a question? No matter who it is or what its about in my opinion anyway.

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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: johnm214]
    #26157343 - 08/28/19 03:06 PM (4 years, 6 months ago)

thanks for this

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OfflineKa Faraq Gatri
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Re: Commonly Misunderstood U.S. Legal Issues +The Mail and The Law [Re: johnm214]
    #26412190 - 01/02/20 09:36 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

Aloha. I understand that Priority Mail packages cannot be opened without a warrant, but are they not x-rayed for security purposes, such as to prevent bombs or anthrax being mailed? What about when sending a package containing a quantity of cubensis mushrooms from the mainland United States to, say, the Big Island of Hawaiʻi (and vise versa)? Would seeing whole, dried mushrooms on a USPS x-ray signal some kind of special handling? (Packages to and from the Hawaiian Islands are routed through Honolulu, so it may be the case that they undergo multiple security screenings, including for agricultural reasons. Not completely sure, though.) Could anyone comment? Mahalo. 🤙🏼


--------------------
--
Professional archaeologist and art historian. I study visual culture and themes of time, memory, and identity in ancient contexts, as well as the role of archaeology, archaeologists, and museums in the era of climate change. Good times.

Edited by Ka Faraq Gatri (01/02/20 09:36 AM)

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