Home | Community | Message Board

Mycohaus
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
Offlinebuggas
Stranger


Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 145
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Really small shrooms
    #7722198 - 12/05/07 10:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

First, sorry for the long post. I just want to provide the community with as much information as possible to help diagnose the situation.

I'm growing a cake in an individual shroomarium. It's a 1 gallon square water jug, cut in half so the two fit together again easily.

I have 12 nail sized holes on the bottom, just about the same level as the top of the geolite. There is about 2 inches of geolite and about 1-2 cm's of h2o2/water (proportional to a larger setup). I have a .25" hole in the lid on the top, and 12 more holes near the top. The idea is that as the co2 is created, it flows out the holes in the bottom, creating a vacuum which then pulls in fresh air from the top holes.

Now my problem. The shrooms that this cake is making are small, the largest couple so far (out of lets say 8-10 fruits) have been just about 2 inches long with a cap of just about 1.5 - 2.5cm diameter. Those 2 biguns were the best so far. There are a bunch of pins, but just after they get to be about 1-2cm long, the veils are breaking and about 24 to 48 hours later, the cap is almost flat and the stem is purple. They continue to grow a bit after that, but it's like once the caps open up, they go into slow motion.

It seems the fruits are maturing when they are way too small.

Fortunately, I've been able to take a couple of small prints so i can at least try again, but i'm not sure what the problem is. I know the humidity is decent because i've checked it with a digital hygrometer, and the temp is good (a bit cooler than optimal, but the growth process doesn't seem to be affected as far as energy consumption and so on), but i still don't understand.

I think i'm getting a lot of pins because the organism as a whole isn't using very much energy to create large fruits, rather a bunch of small ones.

Is it because they are in a small container? I've usually had to pick them because the caps start to get darker, or i get nervous and decide to pick before all the spores drop and i miss out on a printing opportunity. It's a nightmare to get spores where i live, so i'm trying to make an effort to be self sustaining.

Can anyone help with my situation? I've read a bunch on small fruits, but they don't put my mind to rest.

Is it possible to miss out on a printing opportunity? I'd like to leave the spore droppers alone if the caps are still light colored, in hopes that they would grow larger; but, like i said, in 36 hours they go from 4mm pins to 2cm spore dropping fruits, and then the caps start to invert/flaten over the next 12 hours and only grow a small amount more. Nothing that would lead me to believe there's a possible 4 incher amongst them. There aren't even noticeable flushes, just lots of fruits and pins at different stages, all the time.


--------------------
There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers from stupid people.

Watch Zeitgeist and Tell Others


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCaribou_Lou
Stranger


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 2,510
Loc: Never Land
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: buggas]
    #7722224 - 12/05/07 10:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You have too many holes, you should have it almost completely sealed I think and then you should just manually fan it each day, followed by misting the top part of the jug.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeventy
equanimitor
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 912
Loc: Canada (PNW)
Last seen: 6 months, 28 days
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: buggas]
    #7722228 - 12/05/07 10:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

well cakes generally do what they want when it comes to fruiting

what strain are you using?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepsycho_bin_farma
Hobbyist
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/20/07
Posts: 171
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: buggas]
    #7722296 - 12/05/07 10:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Cakes don't put out very large fruits in my experience.

Use like a half a print and make WBS spawn, then do a simple casing. You will see a huge difference.


Same strain same materials, one cased, one PF. You can actually see the cake from the picture of the casing. but I think the pf fruited first and I had already harvested when I took that pic



If you don't have a pressure cooker for the grain. Just do a pf and case that whole or broken up into a container with some pasturized substrate. I like multi layers, or mixing spawn and substrate. I've had good experience with both.

Pasturizing your substrate is eaassyyy. I use the pillow case method.
Use the search, it is your friend. the FAQ is good too.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNibin
Getting there
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: psycho_bin_farma]
    #7722935 - 12/06/07 01:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Also, if you inoculated with spores, fruit size is a bit up to luck as it depends on the genetics of the spores that prospered


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineveda_sticks
Cultivator
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 25 days
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: Nibin]
    #7723161 - 12/06/07 05:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

2cm is way to small even for cakes. Saying cakes dont make big shrooms is just spreading 1 off many myths floating around here. I have seen brf cakes produce massive flushes

This was picked from my last cake.



Small mushrooms are usually the result of lack of moisture.

Did you dunk after birthing,

You will want to manually fan it out, having holes are going to have more effect on humidity than on letting c02 escape and o2 in.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCaribou_Lou
Stranger


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 2,510
Loc: Never Land
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7723225 - 12/06/07 06:21 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

But using good casing mix will usually result in bigger mushrooms.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebuggas
Stranger


Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 145
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: Caribou_Lou]
    #7725287 - 12/06/07 04:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well, what's interesting is that this morning i looked at one of larger fruits, yesterday it was about 1.5 inches, and today it's almost 2.5 or 3 maybe. Veil broke, but it still looks young. There are a couple of others that look like they might turn out larger as well.

I'm not a believer of the myth that cakes make small fruits. Small-ER than a casing, yes, but I've seen pictures, including the one above from veda, and they are reasonably sized. If anything, they're just not reaching their full potency potential, than say if i were to case them in compost or something more organic. Or even a BRF/50/50 case for that matter.

Larger Mycelial Network = Larger Fruits
Larger Mycelial Network + Better Substrates = Super Fruits

I'm not looking for giant john holmes sized fruits here, but something a little bigger than a baby's finger or a toothpick would be nice.

Those are some nice backpacker friendly shrooms there veda! I think i'm getting there, but it's taking a bit of experimentation.

I have the holes because i read in other posts that by putting the holes in the top and bottom, you allow the C02 to escape, which is the most important thing, at least IMO (even though i'm only new).

I'm figuring that it's not so much that the air be completely circulated, but more that the C02 be removed. Fanning just moves air around, and thus dilutes the concentration of C02. Holes in the bottom and top would do this for free.

I think mushrooms would grow just fine in a completely sealed environment, until the CO2 became deadly, so it's not that they need a breeze per se, but rather they just need air to breathe. Since C02 is heavier than air, it sinks out the holes in the bottom, creating a small vacuum that gently pulls air in from the top, thus completing the circulation cycle with no wasted energy.

KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid

I think this is why monotubs and bulk neglect work so well. They have a way to remove the C02. And since it's not a complete vacuum, regular air is able to enter in, usually from the top. That's why you can leave a monotub for a month, no fanning, no spraying, no nothing, except a light trigger for the little guys to grow UP. And even then, you can use a timer. If it's completely dark, they only need a few seconds a day. They'll figure it out.

And no, there aren't too many holes, if anything, there's not enough!

Some of the best commented on setups have a zillion holes all around. There is even a post here where people are asking if the poster is worried about perlite falling out the bottom holes, and the poster responds with something like: yeah some falls out; but most importantly, what 'falls out' is the Co2. Perlite can be picked up or land on a tray a few inches below, thus allowing the Co2 to completely evacuate the system.

I've been told that making sure fresh air is available, and Co2 is removed while keeping humidity as close to 100% as possible, is the best way to go. If you can keep the humidity up, then it doesn't matter how many holes you have. Keeping it sealed doesn't allow the automatic circulation of the air and only makes you a slave to your setup (fanning, etc).

Besides, natural mushrooms don't grow in an airtight environment, but they will grow in ones that have very little to no breeze whatsoever (i.e. a cave, just a bit more inside the opening).

I have some cakes that are taking forever to pin. They're in a terrarium with a pump and a heater and all that complicated bullshit, but the ones in the holy jugs are doing way better.

That's proof to me that a bottom sealed tub is crap compared to a tub that has holes near the bottom for C02 to escape. It's also proof that my pump is crap because it's not CirculatingTheAir/DilutingTheCO2 efficiently.

You really want a Poor Man's pod... Nothing is cheaper than a water jug and some porus material. Hell, a 10 lb bag of geolite or perlite will fill 5 or 6 jugs. The jugs are 5"w x 12"h x 5"d. Fill with 2.5 inches of material, and small holes everywhere.

I think what i'm going to do instead, is crumble and case my cakes and get me a monotub. I might try the method of turning one cake into 5 cakes worth of colonized substrate too. I don't know what it's called, but i like calling it the "Jesus Method". Seems fitting.

Oh yeah, strains are either Transkei, Hawaiian or Mazatapec. I forgot to label, then i mixed them up anyway when cleaning up. Either way, too small for any strain. Lots of myc growth so could be transkei, but lots of pins so could be mazatapec, but caps are super whiteish, so could be hawaiian. Dunno really. Doesn't really matter too much IMO.


--------------------
There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers from stupid people.

Watch Zeitgeist and Tell Others


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelivewire
Stranger
Registered: 11/01/07
Posts: 4
Last seen: 16 years, 30 days
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: buggas]
    #7725337 - 12/06/07 04:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I am having the a very similar problem to what you are/were, but these replies haven't given me an answer (or if they have, I've missed it.) :

I'm also growing some individually, in sized-down poor man 2-liter bottles like in the MMGG, with damp paper towels at the bottom. And the ones that have fruited are very small, skinny, and are growing very slowly.

**I guess my biggest question is: how long should it took a mushroom from when you first notice it pinning until it is 2-3 inches long and 2-3 cm diameter, i.e. ready to be picked?**

I've got a number of these little mushrooms growing, and about five days ago they were little pins. Now they are bigger, but literally only 1-3 cm long and <1 cm diameter at the cap. There are others that are fat by proportion but <1cm long/tall. None look black like aborts, but they're barely growing if at all. If it's been five days, what does that mean? Will it just take a few weeks?

The humidity inside each is ~95%, and I've been giving them 1-2 hours of light each day, and I've been taking the tops off the bottle and fanning the air around 2-3X a day.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: livewire]
    #7725560 - 12/06/07 06:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You need to remove the cake and soak it for about 12 to 24 hours under water. It's too dry. An alternative during a flush is to set the cake in a saucer of water and allow it to slowly soak up the water.

You'll get better pinning performance if you'll keep them on a day/night schedule with light all day. Just being near a bright window is fine for what you have going.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelivewire
Stranger
Registered: 11/01/07
Posts: 4
Last seen: 16 years, 30 days
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7725592 - 12/06/07 06:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

thanks a lot for your help. can you tell me, if i put them in water, does the temperature matter? and for saucers specifically, should the water be a couple of inches, or cover the whole cake?

i'll do the light schedule thing too and keep them out all day.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: livewire]
    #7725646 - 12/06/07 06:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

If you've harvested, or only have small pins, dunk the cake completely under water. I do it in a large pot of water, with a plate sitting on top of the cakes, to keep them submerged. Deeper in the water is better than on top because there's more pressure from the water at the bottom of the kettle. Rinse the cakes under the faucet before and after the 24 hour soak. You can use the refrigerator, or simply find a cool place to set them while the cakes are soaking.

If you're mid flush, you can use the saucer to help get some moisture to the cake.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebuggas
Stranger


Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 145
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7728924 - 12/07/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Damn RR, you're like the mushroom whisperer!

If you're still around, can you answer me these please... (or anyone really, as long as you know what you're talking about)

Why do some of my cakes have mushrooms coming out of the bottom center? They're pushing the cakes over and making them unstable. There is no light from the bottom and they are sitting on the lid pretty flat. Their base stems are cool (~1cm dia), but then once they get out into the open, the stems are significantly smaller (.3cm) as are the caps. It seems like low humidity now that i describe it to you.

Also, a couple of these bottom growers i've had to harvest, but i couldn't get the entire stem without tearing out a huge chunk of cake, should i go back and remove the stem, or will it be ok from contams?

They don't seem to be rotting or funky yet (3 days), just blue from the cut, which i understand as normal oxidation of psyly.

If i remove them and the cake is unstable, how would you suggest fixing this?

Also, one more, is it safe to crumble n case an actively fruiting cake? I like the fruits on this one, and would like to keep the myc growing and to help it extend it's network and possibly life, but i'm not sure if this is possible or what. What are the concerns, if any, other than contamination?

Thanks a million everyone. This place is awesome!


--------------------
There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers from stupid people.

Watch Zeitgeist and Tell Others


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineveda_sticks
Cultivator
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 25 days
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: buggas]
    #7728949 - 12/07/07 02:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I use tinfoil instead of a lid, as you can shape it in the perlite to the shape of the cake.

The reason they are growing from the bottom, is the conditions are better at the bottom, most likely that is where humidity is highest.

I have had that on a few cakes, check that your humidity is hihg enough and also that the verm you rolled the cake in is kept moist.


Its not a good idea to crumble a cake that has been fruiting, it will just use up energy repairing itself that could have been used for fruiting.

Mycelium gets old, plus the substrate nuitrients get used up.

If you are going to crumble and case, best to do it with a few freshly colinised jars of substrate.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebuggas
Stranger


Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 145
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: Really small shrooms [Re: veda_sticks]
    #7741373 - 12/10/07 04:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah that sounds good. Weird that they find the bottom, right next to the lid, as a good place to grow. Crazy little fungus!

That makes sense about the energy usage, pretty much what i was figuring, but it was good to ask and confirm.

I have two cakes that i birthed about a month ago, dunked and rolled, but they've just been sitting there and haven't pinned at all. Would those still be good candidates for casing, since technically they're not fruiting yet? I think if i case them, i'll have a much better chance of controlling their environment and maybe getting them to pin.

What do you think?

They're Transkei's and i think they prefer it to be warmer. They grow really really slowly in the cooler temps and right now, that's all they're getting because my apt isn't heated.


--------------------
There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers from stupid people.

Watch Zeitgeist and Tell Others


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* substrate depth spankey 1,473 6 10/21/20 06:11 AM
by natedawgnow
* growth taken ages + are these shrooms? Sarph 3,081 18 12/20/01 06:58 AM
by Shdwstr
* Growing Shrooms: The Newbie Project Zylo 7,119 7 02/24/02 12:32 PM
by Zylo
* Myth about shroom harvest.......
( 1 2 3 all )
badjessejames 27,052 58 07/20/02 07:08 PM
by Zen Peddler
* Should shrooms touch dessicant shroom_assassin 4,115 10 07/16/02 04:51 PM
by straightbangin
* Cutting / breaking shrooms to dry? shroom_assassin 3,808 5 07/20/02 07:05 AM
by ralphster44
* Shrooms Growing On Side of MycoBag FredMeyer420 3,379 10 07/20/02 05:57 PM
by Geordi_La_Forge
* Could leaving shrooms w/dessicant 3+ days hurt? shroom_assassin 2,442 5 07/23/02 09:59 PM
by cdlove69

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
7,850 topic views. 15 members, 154 guests and 38 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.023 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 12 queries.