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InvisibleWolfgang
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The end of Free Speech in America
    #7719662 - 12/05/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Senate Bill 1959 to Criminalize Thoughts, Blogs, Books and Free Speech Across America.

The end of Free Speech in America has arrived at our doorstep. It's a new law called the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act, and it is worded in a clever way that could allow the U.S. government to arrest and incarcerate any individual who speaks out against the Bush Administration, the war on Iraq, the Department of Homeland Security or any government agency (including the FDA). The law has already passed the House on a traitorous vote of 405 to 6, and it is now being considered in the Senate where a vote is imminent. All over the internet, intelligent people who care about freedom are speaking out against this extremely dangerous law: Philip Giraldi at the Huffington Post, Declan McCullagh at CNET's News.com, Kathryn Smith at OpEdNews.com, and of course Alex Jones at PrisonPlanet.com

This bill is the beginning of the end of Free Speech in America. If it passes, all the information sources you know and trust could be shut down and their authors imprisoned. NewsTarget could be taken offline and I could be arrested as a "terrorist." Jeff Rense at www.Rense.com could be labeled a "terrorist" and arrested. Byron Richards, Len Horowitz, Paul Craig Roberts, Greg Palast, Ron Paul and even Al Gore could all be arrested, silenced and incarcerated. This is not an exaggeration. It is a literal reading of the law, which you can check yourself here: http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc110/h1955_rfs.xml

The bill states:

‘...ideologically based violence’ means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual’s political, religious, or social beliefs...

Note that this means the "planned use of force to promote a political or social belief" would be considered an act of terrorism. This all hinges on the definition of "force," of course. Based on the loose use of logic in Washington these days, and the slippery interpretation of the meaning of words, "force" could mean:

• A grassroots campaign to barrage Congress with faxes
• A non-violent street protest
• A letter-writing campaign that deluges the Senate with too much mail
• A sit-in protest that blocks access to a business or organization
• A grassroots e-mail campaign that overloads the e-mail servers of any government department or agency

You get the idea. "Force" could be defined as practically anything. And since the "planned use of force" would be considered a criminal act of terrorism, anyone who simply thinks about a grassroots action campaign would be engaged in terrorist acts.

If you stopped someone on the street and handed them a Bible, for example, this could be considered an act of terrorism ("...use of force to promote the individual's religious beliefs...")

If you sent a barrage of angry letters to Washington about global warming and the destruction of the environment by the U.S. military, this could also be considered an act of terrorism ("...to promote the individual's political beliefs...")

If you believe in same-sex marriage and you wrote a letter threatning a sit-in protest in front of your state's capitol building, this could also be considered an act of terrorism, even if you never carried it out! ("...planned use of force to promote a social belief...")

The United States is on the fast track to fascism, and the Congress is working right alongside this nation's traitorous leaders to criminalize any thoughts, words or speeches that disagree with current government policies regarding war, terrorism, domestic surveillance and civil liberties. Simply speaking out against the war on Iraq could soon be labeled a crime. Merely thinking thoughts against the war on Iraq could be considered a criminal act.

Must-see video: Naomi Wolf's lecture on 10 steps to fascism
There's a video lecture you simply MUST watch. It's by Naomi Wolf, author of The End of America. She covers this topic with great elegance and a deep understanding of history. See her video on YouTube at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

Click here to see her book on Amazon.com.

In her lecture and book, Naomi reveals the ten steps to fascist, then reveals how the United States of America is pursuing all ten! This S.1959 legislation, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act, represents one of the ten steps to achieve a fascist state!

It is designed to squash all opposition to the State's ongoing march towards blatant fascism, where secret police and secret prisons dominate the law enforcement landscape, stripping U.S. citizens of all civil liberties and Constitutional protections.

Thoughtcrimes are about to become a reality in the United States of America, and Congress is pushing this through as quickly as possible so that each individual member of Congress can claim that he or she is "against terrorism." But this bill doesn't merely target terrorism: It targets anyone who speaks or even thinks thoughts against the U.S. federal government.

With this bill, the U.S. government is officially labeling the People of the United States as criminals. It is drawing a line in the sand and stating that from now on, it's the Government vs. the People.

If we don't stop this bill from becoming law, we are lost as a nation.

There is no turning back from tyranny once the government turns its own citizens into criminals, enforcing only the thoughts, ideas, words and speeches that it approves or tolerates. Everything is at stake here!

http://www.newstarget.com/022308.html


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Invisiblememes
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719690 - 12/05/07 01:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

not convincing me. there's no way a bill that violates our most primary right would pass in the house with such a one-sided vote:

it must not be as bad as your making it out to be.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719691 - 12/05/07 01:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It won't pass and Naomi Wolf is an idiot.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: robbyberto]
    #7719704 - 12/05/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

If you stopped someone on the street and handed them a Bible, for example, this could be considered an act of terrorism




haha... This part is interesting. :strokebeard:


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OfflineFractal5
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719712 - 12/05/07 01:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Haha, try reading your shit before you try to spread your own paranoia.

1. It clearly states it will not be used to infringe civil liberties.

2. There is very little funding put into it.

3. Its actually not even a law. Its to put funding into a committee to "study how homegrown terrorism forms."

Wow. Now we have actually learned something instead of believing all the crazy bullshit we hear, and pretending that reading a real slanted article suffices for being informed.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719741 - 12/05/07 01:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

That's horseshit. None of those examples could be interpreted as using force.


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InvisibleWolfgang
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Fractal5]
    #7719760 - 12/05/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Fractal5 said:
Haha, try reading your shit before you try to spread your own paranoia.

1. It clearly states it will not be used to infringe civil liberties.

2. There is very little funding put into it.

3. Its actually not even a law. Its to put funding into a committee to "study how homegrown terrorism forms."

Wow. Now we have actually learned something instead of believing all the crazy bullshit we hear, and pretending that reading a real slanted article suffices for being informed.




Damn man chill out I just wanted some feedback.

This bill looks like the patriot act on steroids.

Who's gonna make sure they don't infringe on our liberties?


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719765 - 12/05/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quit fear mongering. Its overdone in this country by just about everyone.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



Edited by robbyberto (12/05/07 01:58 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719766 - 12/05/07 01:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Any measure taken to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence and homegrown terrorism in the United States should not violate the constitutional rights, civil rights, or civil liberties of United States citizens or lawful permanent residents.




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OfflineFractal5
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719787 - 12/05/07 01:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Wolfgang said:
Quote:

Fractal5 said:
Haha, try reading your shit before you try to spread your own paranoia.

1. It clearly states it will not be used to infringe civil liberties.

2. There is very little funding put into it.

3. Its actually not even a law. Its to put funding into a committee to "study how homegrown terrorism forms."

Wow. Now we have actually learned something instead of believing all the crazy bullshit we hear, and pretending that reading a real slanted article suffices for being informed.




Damn man chill out I just wanted some feedback.

This bill looks like the patriot act on steroids.

Who's gonna make sure they don't infringe on our liberties?




Well shit dude, I have it up to -basically as high as you can point- with all the bullshit paranoia, and self created propaganda, that American hating Americans come up with these days.

I can agree some things need fixing, but seriously, what the fuck is the point of such a stupid article?


Edited by Fractal5 (12/05/07 01:59 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719796 - 12/05/07 01:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Also, this bill is only for creating a commission that researches the causes or domestic terrorism and tries to find ways to prevent it. It says nothing about finding terrorists or prosecuting them.


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InvisibleWolfgang
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Fractal5]
    #7719799 - 12/05/07 01:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Fractal5 said:
Quote:

Wolfgang said:
Quote:

Fractal5 said:
Haha, try reading your shit before you try to spread your own paranoia.

1. It clearly states it will not be used to infringe civil liberties.

2. There is very little funding put into it.

3. Its actually not even a law. Its to put funding into a committee to "study how homegrown terrorism forms."

Wow. Now we have actually learned something instead of believing all the crazy bullshit we hear, and pretending that reading a real slanted article suffices for being informed.




Damn man chill out I just wanted some feedback.

This bill looks like the patriot act on steroids.

Who's gonna make sure they don't infringe on our liberties?




Well shit dude, I have it up to -basically as high as you can point- with all the bullshit paranoia, and self created propaganda, that American hating Americans come up with these days.

I can agree some things need fixing, but seriously, what the fuck is the point of such a stupid article?




Funny I was wondering the same thing, maybe I thought it was bs too and wanted some feedback I don't see why you have to come at me like that.

You didn't even bother asking my opinion, why attack me for posting an article? That doesn't mean I believe it just beause I post it.


Edited by Wolfgang (12/05/07 02:09 PM)


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Offlineelflord420
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719883 - 12/05/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

get a gat, guard your farm and get ready for the end of the world


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: elflord420]
    #7719918 - 12/05/07 02:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Take it all in stride OP, most of these guys are paranoid as hell [probably for committing multiple felonies, but shit - who's counting :rofl:] so they don't need another reason to look over their shoulder for big brother, even though I'm fairly suspicious of them as well...Read simulacra & simulations, shit like this is how they keep us in check. :justdontknow:


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #7719924 - 12/05/07 02:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

My record is clean and I only do drugs very rarely. :tongue2:


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



Edited by robbyberto (12/05/07 02:40 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #7719929 - 12/05/07 02:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't do drugs and my record is clean. IT has nothing to do with paranoia that makes me reject the original post, but because it's bullshit.


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InvisibleWolfgang
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7719938 - 12/05/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Come on you really don't do drugs?

Why are you here then?


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7719942 - 12/05/07 02:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I don't do drugs and my record is clean. IT has nothing to do with paranoia that makes me reject the original post, but because it's bullshit.




I think these posts are good though...because shit like this just slides by most americans without them even hearing about it. Wasn't the patriot act passed at some obscure time and day, with but a small percentage of the congress actually present? I'm grateful at least some of us are still vigilant.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719944 - 12/05/07 02:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't do drugs either.  :shrug:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719945 - 12/05/07 02:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

No, I really don't. I used to, but kind of grew out of it for some reason. When I started posting here I got to know some of the people here and stuck around for the community even after I stopped.

There are many people who don't use drugs here.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #7719953 - 12/05/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

blkjkrabbit said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
I don't do drugs and my record is clean. IT has nothing to do with paranoia that makes me reject the original post, but because it's bullshit.




I think these posts are good though...because shit like this just slides by most americans without them even hearing about it. Wasn't the patriot act passed at some obscure time and day, with but a small percentage of the congress actually present? I'm grateful at least some of us are still vigilant.




I don't mind them either, but I think it's important to not just accept things like this at face value, just as you shouldn't accept things from the gov't at face value.


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7719962 - 12/05/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

like their authority? :justdontknow:


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7719964 - 12/05/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Although, whenever I see the name "Naomi Wolf" in a post I want to start using drugs.


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InvisibleWolfgang
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7719967 - 12/05/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
No, I really don't. I used to, but kind of grew out of it for some reason. When I started posting here I got to know some of the people here and stuck around for the community even after I stopped.

There are many people who don't use drugs here.




Would you oppose trying new drugs that maybe you wouldn't grow out of?


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719975 - 12/05/07 02:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Wolfgang said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
No, I really don't. I used to, but kind of grew out of it for some reason. When I started posting here I got to know some of the people here and stuck around for the community even after I stopped.

There are many people who don't use drugs here.




Would you oppose trying new drugs that maybe you wouldn't grow out of?



uh, yeah. it be teh heroin


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719977 - 12/05/07 02:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I've tried pretty much everything. I don't have anything against drugs, but I don't have the time or the type of lifestyle for them to fit in right now.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7719978 - 12/05/07 02:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So.. what is it that makes you think this bill is so harmless?
Everything about it screams police state at me.


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InvisibleWolfgang
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7719981 - 12/05/07 02:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I've tried pretty much everything. I don't have anything against drugs, but I don't have the time or the type of lifestyle for them to fit in right now.




Ah I see, have you tried mescaline? If so what'd you think of it?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719988 - 12/05/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Shroomism]
    #7719989 - 12/05/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
So.. what is it that makes you think this bill is so harmless?
Everything about it screams police state at me.




Did you even read the bill?

It says nothing about identifying, detaining, or prosecuting terrorists. If you would have read my post above, you would have seen why I believe it's harmless. All it does is create a commission which researches and identifies the roots and causes behind domestic terrorism.

I can understand being a cynic; I'm one as well. However, I can't understand you taking a stand without even reading the bill. It's just as outrageous behavior as those who accept everything the gov't tells them.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7719996 - 12/05/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Wolfgang said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
I've tried pretty much everything. I don't have anything against drugs, but I don't have the time or the type of lifestyle for them to fit in right now.




Ah I see, have you tried mescaline? If so what'd you think of it?




Quite some time ago I did. Other than the discomfort it caused me physically, it was a rather interesting experience.


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InvisibleWolfgang
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7720003 - 12/05/07 02:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

Shroomism said:
So.. what is it that makes you think this bill is so harmless?
Everything about it screams police state at me.




Did you even read the bill?

It says nothing about identifying, detaining, or prosecuting terrorists. If you would have read my post above, you would have seen why I believe it's harmless. All it does is create a commission which researches and identifies the roots and causes behind domestic terrorism.

I can understand being a cynic; I'm one as well. However, I can't understand you taking a stand without even reading the bill. It's just as outrageous behavior as those who accept everything the gov't tells them.




I don't have a strong opinion either way yet but if they did want so something like stop us speaking up against the government would they come right out and say it?

Or would they make a bill like the patriot act or a bill like this first?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Shroomism]
    #7720004 - 12/05/07 02:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

That video doesn't work for me for some reason.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7720010 - 12/05/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I am not saying not to speak up against the gov't. That is every citizen's duty. You have to be smart and critical when you speak out, though. Like I said before, don't accept what an article tells you; do your own research. Read the bill and you'll see it doesn't match up with what the article says.

Edit: I totally misread what you typed. My apologies. You just have to take what you've been given. Also, doing independent research is essential. Keep your eyes open; that's all you can do.


Edited by Redstorm (12/05/07 02:57 PM)


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7720014 - 12/05/07 02:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

the patriot act already gave them the ability to make a police state, i wouldn't worry about anything following that one. that act already completely shit on your civil liberties


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7720017 - 12/05/07 02:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Redstorm is right, all the bill does is create a center that studies the aforementioned crap, if anyone should complain about it is that its another waste of taxpayer money by creating a beauracracy that is doing something the FBI or ATF should already be doing.


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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7720022 - 12/05/07 02:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yes I have read the bill. I have also read the US Constitution, which has been shat on time and time again.

Quote:

`(1) FINAL REPORT-

`(A) IN GENERAL- Not later than 18 months after the date on which the Commission first meets, the Commission shall submit to the President and Congress a final report including--

`(i) its findings and conclusions;

`(ii) legislative recommendations for--

`(I) immediate and long-term countermeasures to violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence; and

`(II) measures that can be taken to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence from developing and spreading within the United States; and

`(iii) any final recommendations for any additional grant programs to support these purposes.




Which means, basically whatever they want it to mean.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #7720025 - 12/05/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Or the DOD or Homeland Security.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #7720026 - 12/05/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

blkjkrabbit said:
the patriot act already gave them the ability to make a police state, i wouldn't worry about anything following that one. that act already completely shit on your civil liberties




How have you been affected since the Patriot Act was enacted


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7720029 - 12/05/07 02:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What I find most funny though, is that technically under this bill... the US government itself 'should' be the largest target for their own program.


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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Shroomism]
    #7720031 - 12/05/07 02:59 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Yes I have read the bill. I have also read the US Constitution, which has been shat on time and time again.

Quote:

`(1) FINAL REPORT-

`(A) IN GENERAL- Not later than 18 months after the date on which the Commission first meets, the Commission shall submit to the President and Congress a final report including--

`(i) its findings and conclusions;

`(ii) legislative recommendations for--

`(I) immediate and long-term countermeasures to violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence; and

`(II) measures that can be taken to prevent violent radicalization, homegrown terrorism, and ideologically based violence from developing and spreading within the United States; and

`(iii) any final recommendations for any additional grant programs to support these purposes.




Which means, basically whatever they want it to mean.




Or apparently YOU can interpret it to mean whatever backs up your current belief structure. Convenient, huh?


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OfflineMuffin
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7720035 - 12/05/07 03:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

couple of things,
1, Giving someone a Bible on the street should be considered terrorism.
2, Whoever said, "it clearly states it will not violate civil rights", or something like that. Really? Oh good. I was worried there for a minute until I saw the part where it wont be bad because it said so. Thats like the Christians who say god exists because the bible tells them so, and the bible is the word of god, so it must be true. (yes I have heard this MANY times.)
3, I really don't think America is falling into a dictatorship or anything, but I am becoming less and less convinced. The more I find out about shit they don't tell you on CNN or Fox News, the more I think to myself, they didn't just "Overlook" that. The "North American Union", the "Real ID Act", and "Blackwater", that shit is fucked. Wanna see what bush looks like when you ask him about "Blackwater"?
He looks like this.
Fucking tard.


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Civil disobedience is insufficient.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7720038 - 12/05/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The above analysis is a little over the top, but the law is really bad.

I could easily see some of my friends being designated as "terrorists" by this committee for their activism. My friends are not bad people but they often use unconventional means to disagree with those in power.

Since it passed the house 405 to 6 the other day, its time to call your senators.

I just called both mine. Both people who answered the phone had heard all about the bill. Senator Boxer's rep was really cool, she told me that the bill is still in committee. I let her know to vote against it should the bill escape the committee. I also called senator feinstien, she is much more evil and I could tell that the staffer who answered the phone was for the bill. I took great pleasure in asking him to tell senator feinstein in the strongest possible terms to vote against the bill.

The next thing that needs to be done is to find out what committee this is that is considering the bill, and who is on that committee. Residents in those states need to know that they are in a unique position to be able to call up the committee members and maybe get it killed before it reaches the floor, which is a dangerous place for a bill that just passed the house 405 to 6.

Here are a list of the senators and the numbers to call:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm


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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Muffin]
    #7720039 - 12/05/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

A commission studying and researching terrorism is not going to be able to violate your constitutional rights. I'm getting kind of sick of repeating it since some people have reading comprehension problems, but the commission has nothing to do with detaining or prosecuting terrorists.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #7720044 - 12/05/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
The above analysis is a little over the top, but the law is really bad.

I could easily see some of my friends being designated as "terrorists" by this committee for their activism. My friends are not bad people but they often use unconventional means to disagree with those in power.

Since it passed the house 405 to 6 the other day, its time to call your senators.

I just called both mine. Both people who answered the phone had heard all about the bill. Senator Boxer's rep was really cool, she told me that the bill is still in committee. I let her know to vote against it should the bill escape the committee. I also called senator feinstien, she is much more evil and I could tell that the staffer who answered the phone was for the bill. I took great pleasure in asking him to tell senator feinstein in the strongest possible terms to vote against the bill.

The next thing that needs to be done is to find out what committee this is that is considering the bill, and who is on that committee. Residents in those states need to know that they are in a unique position to be able to call up the committee members and maybe get it killed before it reaches the floor, which is a dangerous place for a bill that just passed the house 405 to 6.





After reading the bill, what was the part of it that specifically worried you the most? This seams like a pretty tame bill to me.


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OfflineMuffin
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7720055 - 12/05/07 03:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Redstorm is a government spy.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Muffin]
    #7720060 - 12/05/07 03:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't appreciate that sort of talk.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Redstorm]
    #7720064 - 12/05/07 03:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

> After reading the bill, what was the part of it that specifically worried you the most? This seams like a pretty tame bill to me.

The last thing we need is any new commissions. The government already spends too much money and should be smaller, not larger. Especially where terrorism is concerned.

I am concerned that they would be unable to find any real terrorists and focus instead on US citizens who do not agree with the government (forcefully), but do not intend harm to anyone.

Home grown terrorists started this country, its a good thing that England did not have the "law enforcement tools" necessary to nip it in the bud.


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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: robbyberto]
    #7720071 - 12/05/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
It won't pass and Naomi Wolf is an idiot.




Why do you say that? To me she deserves the adjectives informed and courageous. What arguments do you have against the idea that definite parallels can be drawn between modern America and Fascist regimes of the past?


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OfflineMuffin
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Muffin]
    #7720086 - 12/05/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

oh, and the part about the terrorists, and those...whaddaya call ems, er oh yeah, the terrorists, you know the one that are all blowing shit up everywhere? The ones from Iraq. With all the brown skin.
Oh and the part where AMERICANS become the terrorists. Because when we went to Iraq, there were no WMDs, and there were no terrorists, so now we have to look here.

P.S. Am I the only one wondering why everyones not PISSED there were no terrorists or WMDs there? Why the fuck are we at war? I believed that shit Sphincter Powell was saying. Now that we know it was horse shit, why are we still over there?


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Muffin]
    #7720094 - 12/05/07 03:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The Bush administration is slowly disintegrating, we'll have a new administration with all new problems to deal with soon, this stuff is old.


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OfflineMuffin
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Muffin]
    #7720112 - 12/05/07 03:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, and also the part where one of the main focuses of the bill is to watch my internet. You can't see the news on the news, cause they only show you football player trials, and wild fires. So you turn to the interweb. There you find people going...WTF? why had I never heard about this on Fox News?
Now, you will soon not be able to say what you want on the Internets, and we will all be fucked. Baby steps, soon were china.
(Not all because of this ONE bill, but it does make it a fuck load easier to get there.)


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OfflineMuffin
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Muffin]
    #7720124 - 12/05/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Also, if there is another "National Emergency" before the elections, and Bush declares Martial Law. I will be convinced, and I'm moving to Tahiti. Shit, I might do that anyway...Sounds kinda nice.


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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Shroomism]
    #7720241 - 12/05/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
What I find most funny though, is that technically under this bill... the US government itself 'should' be the largest target for their own program.




:rofl:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Muffin]
    #7720276 - 12/05/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

> Why the fuck are we at war?

Every war starts with a silly excuse to fight by someone who has something to gain by the war.

Its a rather selfish way to make a buck, but unfortunately is effective.

When the patriot act was still proposed legislation I clicked on some web forms, joined the aclu and called my senators, but I wish I had done more.


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OfflineCaribou_Lou
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: memes]
    #7720288 - 12/05/07 03:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

meams said:
not convincing me. there's no way a bill that violates our most primary right would pass in the house with such a one-sided vote:

it must not be as bad as your making it out to be.




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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: WScott]
    #7720451 - 12/05/07 04:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I saw her on The Colbert Report (yeah I know) and she just didn't come across with any compelling arguments. She just made vein comparisons to former fascist states.


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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: robbyberto]
    #7720630 - 12/05/07 05:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I haven't watched her on Colbert yet, but the lecture she gave was very to the point (the one linked in the original posters initial post). While I am not convinced that America will ever reach a 'V for Vendetta' state, it isn't impossible. Fascist regimes in the past didn't have the internet to deal with.. but give them enough time and growing room (which the masses seemingly love to do, ignorantly or otherwise) and they'll figure a way around it.


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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7720648 - 12/05/07 05:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)



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Re: The end of Free Speech in America [Re: UnholyChild666]
    #7732227 - 12/08/07 08:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Remarks on Violent Radicalization & Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act, HR 1955

5 December 2007

Rep. Ron Paul, M.D.

Madame Speaker, I regret that I was unavoidably out of town on October 23, 2007, when a vote was taken on HR 1955, the Violent Radicalization & Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act. Had I been able to vote, I would have voted against this misguided and dangerous piece of legislation. This legislation focuses the weight of the US government inward toward its own citizens under the guise of protecting us against �violent radicalization.�

I would like to note that this legislation was brought to the floor for a vote under suspension of regular order. These so-called �suspension� bills are meant to be non-controversial, thereby negating the need for the more complete and open debate allowed under regular order. It is difficult for me to believe that none of my colleagues in Congress view HR 1955, with its troubling civil liberties implications, as �non-controversial.ᦙ3;

There are many causes for concern in HR 1955. The legislation specifically singles out the Internet for �facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process� in the United States. Such language may well be the first step toward US government regulation of what we are allowed to access on the Internet. Are we, for our own good, to be subjected to the kind of governmental control of the Internet that we see in unfree societies? This bill certainly sets us on that course.

This seems to be an unwise and dangerous solution in search of a real problem. Previous acts of ideologically-motivated violence, though rare, have been resolved successfully using law enforcement techniques, existing laws against violence, and our court system. Even if there were a surge of �violent radicalization� -- a claim for which there is no evidence -- there is no reason to believe that our criminal justice system is so flawed and weak as to be incapable of trying and punishing those who perpetrate violent acts.

This legislation will set up a new government bureaucracy to monitor and further study the as-yet undemonstrated pressing problem of homegrown terrorism and radicalization. It will no doubt prove to be another bureaucracy that artificially inflates problems so as to guarantee its future existence and funding. But it may do so at great further expense to our civil liberties. What disturbs me most about this legislation is that it leaves the door wide open for the broadest definition of what constitutes �radicalization.� Could otherwise non-violent anti-tax, antiwar, or anti-abortion groups fall under the watchful eye of this new government commission? Assurances otherwise in this legislation are unconvincing.

In addition, this legislation will create a Department of Homeland Security-established university-based body to further study radicalization and to �contribute to the establishment of training, written materials, information, analytical assistance and professional resources to aid in combating violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism.� I wonder whether this is really a legitimate role for institutes of higher learning in a free society.

Legislation such as this demands heavy-handed governmental action against American citizens where no crime has been committed. It is yet another attack on our Constitutionally-protected civil liberties. It is my sincere hope that we will reject such approaches to security, which will fail at their stated goal at a great cost to our way of life.

End.


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