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OfflineBanjoMojo
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: Nibin]
    #7775148 - 12/18/07 07:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineNibin
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: Nibin]
    #7775245 - 12/18/07 07:47 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Found here

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/soilfert/sf1321w.htm

Soil pH Effects

The role of gypsum in adjusting soil pH may be confusing. In corn and soybean growing areas, soil pH in the range of 6 to 7 is preferred for optimal growth and yield. Soil pH encountered in most areas of the north-central region of the U.S. range from 5 to 8. Within the pH range of 4.5 to 8.4, the addition of gypsum will have no effect on soil pH. The reaction will be as follows:

CaSO4 Þ SO42- + Ca2+

Dissolving gypsum in water does not result in net change in soil water charge.

At pH levels below 4.5, aluminum becomes soluble and dominates as the controller of lower soil pH. Under these conditions, which are seen often in the tropics and in some areas of the southeastern U.S., addition of gypsum can replace aluminum on clay and organic matter surfaces, allowing aluminum to leach away and raising pH to the lowest level at which hydrogen ions again dominate soil pH regulation (Oates and Caldwell, 1985; Sumner et al., 1986).

Soils with free lime are limited in pH to an upper threshold of about 8.4. When soil pH is 8.5 or higher, a significant amount of sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) likely is present. Addition of gypsum under these conditions results in precipitation of sodium as less soluble sodium sulfate (Na2SO4), resulting in a corresponding decrease in soil pH.

Na2CO3 + CaSO4 Þ CaCO3 + Na2SO4$

Although both reducing and increasing soil pH with gypsum is possible, each effect is appropriate for soil conditions that are seen only rarely in the north-central region. Use of gypsum to increase soil pH from 5 to 6 will not be effective, nor will its use to try to lower pH from 8 to 7. For these reasons, gypsum is not considered to be a liming material or an additive to reduce pH in this region.


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Edited by Nibin (12/18/07 07:49 PM)

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Invisiblenorml840
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: Nibin]
    #7775335 - 12/18/07 08:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

just go to lowes or home depot, buy a small square of sheetrock or ask for leftovers (they'll give it to you), and crush it up (after you remove most of the paper). there you go.....easy gypsum. just make sure the sheetrock isn't green. that's the anti fungal kind. wouldn't be good for your grows. just regular white sheetrock will do fine.

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: Nibin]
    #7775489 - 12/18/07 08:46 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Nibin said:
Found here

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/plantsci/soilfert/sf1321w.htm

Soil pH Effects

The role of gypsum in adjusting soil pH may be confusing. In corn and soybean growing areas, soil pH in the range of 6 to 7 is preferred for optimal growth and yield. Soil pH encountered in most areas of the north-central region of the U.S. range from 5 to 8. Within the pH range of 4.5 to 8.4, the addition of gypsum will have no effect on soil pH. The reaction will be as follows:

CaSO4 Þ SO42- + Ca2+

Dissolving gypsum in water does not result in net change in soil water charge.

At pH levels below 4.5, aluminum becomes soluble and dominates as the controller of lower soil pH. Under these conditions, which are seen often in the tropics and in some areas of the southeastern U.S., addition of gypsum can replace aluminum on clay and organic matter surfaces, allowing aluminum to leach away and raising pH to the lowest level at which hydrogen ions again dominate soil pH regulation (Oates and Caldwell, 1985; Sumner et al., 1986).

Soils with free lime are limited in pH to an upper threshold of about 8.4. When soil pH is 8.5 or higher, a significant amount of sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) likely is present. Addition of gypsum under these conditions results in precipitation of sodium as less soluble sodium sulfate (Na2SO4), resulting in a corresponding decrease in soil pH.

Na2CO3 + CaSO4 Þ CaCO3 + Na2SO4$

Although both reducing and increasing soil pH with gypsum is possible, each effect is appropriate for soil conditions that are seen only rarely in the north-central region. Use of gypsum to increase soil pH from 5 to 6 will not be effective, nor will its use to try to lower pH from 8 to 7. For these reasons, gypsum is not considered to be a liming material or an additive to reduce pH in this region.




That seems like a more logical explination to the reasons that ph can change when gypsum is introduced to soil.

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OfflineNibin
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: Fraggin]
    #7776610 - 12/19/07 07:09 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, it couldn't be by simple addition as it is a neutral salt. I was going with the second reaction (the sodium sulphate one) but I would never have guessed the aluminium one. I wonder if this has anything to do with the holes in aluminium trays...


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Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy

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OfflineFreeTim99672012
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: Nibin]
    #7835704 - 01/05/08 01:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

wow, chemistry, I'm glad you guys are on top of it. :grin: I think I need something to clear my brain now.

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InvisibleCaptain Cubensis
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Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 648
Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: Nibin]
    #7836306 - 01/05/08 04:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think it's the sulfur in gypsum that lowers the pH. The calcium wouldn't lower pH.

As I understand it, gypsum is more of a nutritional supplement, than a soil conditioner, as it's presence promotes mycelial growth and is not added for pH adjustment.

Sulfur and Calcium are two things myc likes, but rye is poor in.

I could be wrong.

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OfflineNibin
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7838206 - 01/06/08 04:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
I think it's the sulfur in gypsum that lowers the pH. The calcium wouldn't lower pH.

As I understand it, gypsum is more of a nutritional supplement, than a soil conditioner, as it's presence promotes mycelial growth and is not added for pH adjustment.

Sulfur and Calcium are two things myc likes, but rye is poor in.

I could be wrong.




Don't say what you think without any backing information. I can say I think the earth is flat, but even if I think it, it will be a load of bullshit. I

Three posts above you have a very in depth explanation of how the buffer part of gypsum works, and it explains how the sulfur in gypsum will react with sodium carbonate in soil, leading to a decrease in pH. Saying you think it is so adds no extra authority to the already established fact.

We know fine well gypsum is a nutritional supplement, it has been said over and over again.


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Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: Captain Cubensis]
    #7838246 - 01/06/08 05:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
I think it's the sulfur in gypsum that lowers the pH. The calcium wouldn't lower pH.

As I understand it, gypsum is more of a nutritional supplement, than a soil conditioner, as it's presence promotes mycelial growth and is not added for pH adjustment.

Sulfur and Calcium are two things myc likes, but rye is poor in.

I could be wrong.




Actually, that's right on. Gypsum isn't used to adjust the pH. A side benefit of gypsum is it tends to hold the pH stable, preventing a swing to acidic conditions caused by metabolism of the fungi.

Sulfur and calcium are both essential for good fruitbody formation, so gypsum helps to ensure that our substrates have plenty. In addition, it's a soil conditioner that helps prevent clumping. In some species, such as Shiitake, gypsum has shown a 20% increase in yields over the same subsrate without gypsum.
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineNibin
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7838256 - 01/06/08 05:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

Captain Cubensis said:
I think it's the sulfur in gypsum that lowers the pH. The calcium wouldn't lower pH.

As I understand it, gypsum is more of a nutritional supplement, than a soil conditioner, as it's presence promotes mycelial growth and is not added for pH adjustment.

Sulfur and Calcium are two things myc likes, but rye is poor in.

I could be wrong.




Actually, that's right on. Gypsum isn't used to adjust the pH. A side benefit of gypsum is it tends to hold the pH stable, preventing a swing to acidic conditions caused by metabolism of the fungi.

Sulfur and calcium are both essential for good fruitbody formation, so gypsum helps to ensure that our substrates have plenty. In addition, it's a soil conditioner that helps prevent clumping. In some species, such as Shiitake, gypsum has shown a 20% increase in yields over the same subsrate without gypsum.
RR




Which is something you repeat about three times a week, RR.

Lol, it is something that everyone should memorize. The ABC of Gypsum

Additional Nutrients
Buffer
Clumping.


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Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: Nibin]
    #7966268 - 02/01/08 07:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

this is too bad I had to get my local ag store to order some in so now My projects will be vulnerable to swings in PH. Would it help if I got some crushed oister shells instead of lime so that the PH would not become too acidic over time? If I understand this is how it works.


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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OfflineNibin
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #7967267 - 02/02/08 12:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Powdered oyster shell or oyster shell flour would help, as calcium carbonate is also a pH buffer and corrector, but in crushed oyster shell the pieces are too big to have much effect on the pH.

Great for texture though.


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Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: Nibin]
    #7967561 - 02/02/08 02:33 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

well thanks for saving me a couple bucks. I hope I don't rue the day if my first casings get minimal flushes while I'm waiting for gypsum.

Edited by ScavengerType (02/02/08 02:36 AM)

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Offlinekimber
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #11861904 - 01/19/10 07:31 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

i was wondering i just ordered some gypsum and when it came its not a powder its like little pellets is this ok to use

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Invisiblemyceleus_rex
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Re: Online Gypsum Supplier? [Re: kimber]
    #11861962 - 01/19/10 07:43 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

No problem, just dissolve it in your soak water for grain or boil into the water you use for making your sub.


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