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Offlinepsychejam
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Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 380
Loc: Surfers Paradise, Queensl...
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Thinking yourself insane
    #7714007 - 12/04/07 04:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I recently had a talk to a psychologist due to my strange thinking/mild anxiety brought about by mushrooms and/or pot, and she basically told me that it's possible to literally "think yourself insane". "Never let the mind ponder, for it may never come back."

Of course I try and avoid thinking about going insane as much as possible, and yes, I am aware that one of the symptoms of anxiety is the feeling of losing touch with reality. But that's not the point.  :laugh:

What do you fellows think regarding this downright terrifying subject?


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"You mean we're smoking dog shit, man?!"

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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: psychejam]
    #7714009 - 12/04/07 04:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Your psychologist is a dumbass.


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Offlinepsychejam
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Registered: 09/17/07
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7714012 - 12/04/07 04:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

That's what I'd like to believe, Cowabunga. But it sometimes makes strange sense to me...and terrifies the bejesus out of me at times, especially during a period of anxiety.


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"You mean we're smoking dog shit, man?!"

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7714022 - 12/04/07 05:01 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

this image
is an excellent visualization for you to understand what is going on.
the totality of it is beautiful,
but the tight curls each on their own seem fearsome.
as each bend of a spiral gets tighter the essential fractal is repeated.
adding energy into this kind of fractal extension produces more density.

taking a step backwards,
you can regard associative thought and consciousness for what it is.
it helps to relax and to choose relaxing branches or opportunities when they appear.
this provides a good open perspective in which you can take in more of the marvels of the universe unfolding.

when you tighten, you lock down to one of the ever resolving/creating fractal branches which is maddenning (but not necessarily, if you pace yourself).

so, yes you can be more and more nuts as part of your ongoing process, tightening and separating from the big picture, or you can relax and allow the big picture to resolve more naturally.

these two directions are both necessary,
finding a middle way between tight detailing, and open generality is an ongoing task.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleBridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7714055 - 12/04/07 05:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

redgreenvines :thumbup:

i've had these problems when i was a bit younger. saying "take it easy" may seem dumb and simple, but that's what you have to do. i think you've been exposed to too much information/fresh thoughts that your mind has jammed and can't work through it all. i'd suggest reading books like "introduction to philosophy" and so on: nothing too heavy but that explain how people before you have been struggling with similar stuff and how they resolved it.


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OfflineKristian
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7714110 - 12/04/07 06:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Don't listen to anybody and find what works for you.

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: Kristian]
    #7714328 - 12/04/07 08:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, that has happened to me after I did mushrooms a few times.  I know it's cheesy, but as FDR said "The only thing you have to fear is fear itself"...it really is true.  It's not the thinking that'll drive you nuts, its the worrying about thinking.  So as others have said just relaaaaax, don't run from your thoughts embrace them, and probably don't do mushrooms again until you feel confident that you aren't crazy. :lol:

Above all, remember that you'll be fine.  True craziness is a medical condition, it doesn't just happen randomly.


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check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: psychejam]
    #7714409 - 12/04/07 09:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Okay, I think I can answer your question, and provide a decent explanation for you. Just bear with me for a few minutes. It should be worth it.

The short answer: Yes, in a manner of speaking, I believe that thinking a lot can cause “insanity….” depending on what the thoughts are. But we need to clarify a few things, and I should tell you why I say this.

First of all…define “self.” Or better, what is your “mind?” (Considering it is your mind we are discussing, when referring to your level of “sanity.”)

You might be tempted to point at your brain. Well…yes and no. Your brain is the center of consciousness in your body, yes. But at some point, your brain will no longer receive oxygen through the blood…shortly after which it will become a decaying 3 pound lump of organic matter, barely different than a rotting tree stump.

Your “mind” is almost intangible. It is a series of neural connections in your brain, and the electrical impulses that travel through them. Your “thoughts” are temporary charges of electricity. Fast, and fleeting. What you are asking, here, is if we can actually “change” the nature of our minds, by the process of these thoughts…

When you are learning something, what are you doing? You are attempting to build and/or strengthen certain neural connections in your brain. Attempting to do this, by thinking. Asking if thought can affect the brain in a more “tangible” way, is the same as asking “is it physically possible to learn?” And of course it is. Any child can tell you this.

Here is a clip, from “What the Bleep Do We Know?” that talks a little about this subject. A relevant quote from the clip follows. (Note: some people seem to have issues with this movie, but I find it to be informative, and nearly mind-shattering if you’re unfamiliar with the subject matter):




Quote:

From: What the Bleep….
"The brain is made up of tiny nerve cells called neurons. These neurons have tiny branches that reach out and connect to other neurons, to form a neural-net. Each place where they connect is integrated into a thought, or memory.

The brain builds up all its concepts by the law of associative memory. For example: Ideas, thoughts, and feelings are all constructed and inter-connected in this neural net. And all have a possible relationship with one another. The concept and the feeling of LOVE, for instance, is stored in this vast neural net. But we build the concept of love from many other different ideas. Some people have love connected to disappointment. When they think about love, they experience the memory of pain, sorrow, anger, and even rage. Rage may be linked to hurt, which may be linked to a specific person, which then is connected back to love.

Who is in the driver's seat, when we control our emotions, or we respond to our emotions? We know, physiologically, that nerve-cells that fire together, wire together. If you practice something over and over again, those nerve cells have a long-term relationship.

If you get angry on a daily basis, if you get frustrated on a daily basis, if you suffer on a daily basis, if you give reasons for the victimization in your life--you're re-wiring and re-integrating that neural net on a daily basis, and that neural net now has a long term relationship with all those other nerve cells, called an 'Identity.'

We also know that nerve cells that don't fire together, no longer wire together. They lose their long term relationship. Because every time we interrupt the thought process that produces a chemical response in the body...every time we interrupt it, those nerve cells that are connected to each other start breaking the long term relationship. When we start interrupting, and observing; not by stimulus and response, and that automatic-reaction, but by observing the effects it takes, then we are no longer the body-mind-conscious-emotional person that is responding to its environment as if it is automatic."





Basically, any time you are thinking, you are “doing something” to your brain… your brain is producing a physical reaction. Now, it has been shown that strong emotional reactions can serve to reinforce such connections. I think this is why psychedelics can be used as amazing tools for self-exploration and psychotherapy. I believe this is also part of the reason they pose a psychological danger.

When you take a serotonergic psychedelic like psilocybin, you are likely experiencing a very strong emotional reaction, at the same time you are having these very strong revelations, these thoughts. This can be a lot for some people to deal with, and I DO believe that it causes more “permanent” changes in the brain. (Note, that I say “MORE permanent” as according to my previous ideas, a change made by thought can be un-done by thought as well.)

“Insanity” is a somewhat vague term, and also relative. “Insanity” is not really a term that is used by professionals, outside of a criminal or legal setting. They would be more likely to say something like “mental/emotional disorder” or “abnormal psychology.” And what does that mean? Is depression abnormal? Anxiety? What is “abnormal?” “Ab-normal” is something on the other side of, or differing from the norm. That can be bad, but doesn’t have to be.

Depression is not good. Anxiety is not good. In a case like that, I think that you should examine this MORE and not less. Perhaps psychedelics showed you something that you weren’t expecting, or weren’t ready for. I think figuring this out would be to your benefit. I would also advise you to not use any psychedelics for a while, until you at least get a good grasp on the reasons behind this depression and anxiety.

I hope that helped, at least somewhat. If there’s anything you want to discuss privately, feel free to PM me. I have a good deal of experience with difficult trips, depression, anxiety, and generally weird thoughts. Haha

Peace.


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I am me. We are You.

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Offlinesky
Heir of Isildur
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #7714656 - 12/04/07 10:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I believe that everybody is already insane in their own way... "Lot's of people seem to think I'm lazy; I don't mind - I think their crazy... Running everywhere at such a speed, till they find, there's no need.. there's no need"

I already know that by society's standards I'd be considered insane; but that is not a bad thing. That is the purpose of psychadellics; to change you and take you to new areas of your mind and the universe. You're not going insane, you're just changing and uhhh.. "evolving". It's like nature starts you off at level 1 and you gotta gain experience and level yourself... that's my opinion anyway..

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Offlineevolprim
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: psychejam]
    #7717923 - 12/04/07 11:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

amigo you will be fine. many have gone through this before, and many will. learn to dance with your thoughts rather than try to run away from them. the healthy person has just as much chance of becoming ill as the ill one of being healthy. :heart::hug::grin:

pm me if you wanna chat.

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OfflineDreamSignals
Morphogenetic Truth


Registered: 01/14/07
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: evolprim]
    #7718074 - 12/05/07 12:05 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I would recommend taking better care of your head. Your mind is your temple, devote yourself to it and everything bad in your life will disappear. You should go out and check out from the library some books by Carl Jung, or Alan Watts, hell even Carlos Castaneda will do the trick. Meditation will calm your anxiety faster than anything else, devote a 10-20 minutes a day to this practice and you'll notice results very very fast.


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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. (93)
Love is the law, love under will. (93 93/93)

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InvisibleFeanor
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: DreamSignals]
    #7718114 - 12/05/07 12:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Dude, welcome to my world. :smile:

Honestly, psychologists who do not have psychedelic experience shouldn't be psychologists, really.

You aren't insane. Others are insane.

I envy that you live where you live!! Catch a wave or two for me. You would laugh if you saw the waves that I have to surf.


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May Terence McKenna Live Long

The DMT Chronicles

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OfflineAcaterpillar
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: Feanor]
    #7718126 - 12/05/07 12:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I started to think myself insane in 9th grade, and then I realized it and started going out more. Helped.


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Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...

At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.

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Invisiblepoot
bottom feeder
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #7718389 - 12/05/07 03:15 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

in a worse-off tote ranging from sizes X to Z we take into account the actual thing whats worse-off in the first place. You see, meddling with the moment only cross-associates the past to the actual present worse-off condition in the only way poss. given that you have made tghe correct steps to recovery.


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possibly the last post of mine.

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Offlinecube talk
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Registered: 10/11/07
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: g00ru]
    #7718437 - 12/05/07 03:59 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, that has happened to me after I did mushrooms a few times.  I know it's cheesy, but as FDR said "The only thing you have to fear is fear itself"...it really is true.  It's not the thinking that'll drive you nuts, its the worrying about thinking.  So as others have said just relaaaaax, don't run from your thoughts embrace them, and probably don't do mushrooms again until you feel confident that you aren't crazy. :lol:

Above all, remember that you'll be fine.  True craziness is a medical condition, it doesn't just happen randomly.




I've been there, ohh those thought loops. I got lost in one for about 30 minutes and was wonderin if the world even existed anymore.


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Offlinepsychejam
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: cube talk]
    #7718507 - 12/05/07 05:15 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


I've been there, ohh those thought loops. I got lost in one for about 30 minutes and was wonderin if the world even existed anymore.




Absolutely terrifying, innit? :laugh:


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"You mean we're smoking dog shit, man?!"

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OfflineJustice_Fish
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: psychejam]
    #7718547 - 12/05/07 06:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Not that much.

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InvisibleReoSpeedwagon153
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: psychejam]
    #7718645 - 12/05/07 07:13 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

What psychologist would suggest thinking LESS???

Going insane is necessary sometimes.


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“I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #7731113 - 12/07/07 10:45 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

To all those people saying stuff like: "insanity doesn't mean anything were all insane we need to be insane"....be quiet, insanity is terrifying, you aren't helping anybody.


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check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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OfflineGrylls
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: g00ru]
    #7731143 - 12/07/07 10:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You cannot make yourself go insane. What defines insanity? I'd like to talk to this psychologist of yours.

The only thing one can think them self into is a state of hypochondriasis, obsessive behavior, and neuroses. Which is what anxiety can induce in individuals. Which none of those conditions constitutes insanity.

You can consider schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders as insanity, but most schizophrenics are still able to function in society. Insanity is a very general term that we cannot narrow down to a set of specific symptoms.


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Alone in the clouds all blue.  Lying on an eiderdown.  You can't see me, but I can you.

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