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psychejam
Musician
Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 380
Loc: Surfers Paradise, Queensl...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Thinking yourself insane
#7714007 - 12/04/07 04:42 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I recently had a talk to a psychologist due to my strange thinking/mild anxiety brought about by mushrooms and/or pot, and she basically told me that it's possible to literally "think yourself insane". "Never let the mind ponder, for it may never come back."
Of course I try and avoid thinking about going insane as much as possible, and yes, I am aware that one of the symptoms of anxiety is the feeling of losing touch with reality. But that's not the point.
What do you fellows think regarding this downright terrifying subject?
-------------------- "You mean we're smoking dog shit, man?!"
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: psychejam]
#7714009 - 12/04/07 04:48 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your psychologist is a dumbass.
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psychejam
Musician
Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 380
Loc: Surfers Paradise, Queensl...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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That's what I'd like to believe, Cowabunga. But it sometimes makes strange sense to me...and terrifies the bejesus out of me at times, especially during a period of anxiety.
-------------------- "You mean we're smoking dog shit, man?!"
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,008
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this image is an excellent visualization for you to understand what is going on. the totality of it is beautiful, but the tight curls each on their own seem fearsome. as each bend of a spiral gets tighter the essential fractal is repeated. adding energy into this kind of fractal extension produces more density.
taking a step backwards, you can regard associative thought and consciousness for what it is. it helps to relax and to choose relaxing branches or opportunities when they appear. this provides a good open perspective in which you can take in more of the marvels of the universe unfolding.
when you tighten, you lock down to one of the ever resolving/creating fractal branches which is maddenning (but not necessarily, if you pace yourself).
so, yes you can be more and more nuts as part of your ongoing process, tightening and separating from the big picture, or you can relax and allow the big picture to resolve more naturally.
these two directions are both necessary, finding a middle way between tight detailing, and open generality is an ongoing task.
-------------------- _ đ§ _
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Bridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
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redgreenvines
i've had these problems when i was a bit younger. saying "take it easy" may seem dumb and simple, but that's what you have to do. i think you've been exposed to too much information/fresh thoughts that your mind has jammed and can't work through it all. i'd suggest reading books like "introduction to philosophy" and so on: nothing too heavy but that explain how people before you have been struggling with similar stuff and how they resolved it.
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Kristian
Stranger
Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 31
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: Bridgeburner]
#7714110 - 12/04/07 06:53 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Don't listen to anybody and find what works for you.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: Kristian]
#7714328 - 12/04/07 08:35 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, that has happened to me after I did mushrooms a few times. I know it's cheesy, but as FDR said "The only thing you have to fear is fear itself"...it really is true. It's not the thinking that'll drive you nuts, its the worrying about thinking. So as others have said just relaaaaax, don't run from your thoughts embrace them, and probably don't do mushrooms again until you feel confident that you aren't crazy.
Above all, remember that you'll be fine. True craziness is a medical condition, it doesn't just happen randomly.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG
Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: psychejam]
#7714409 - 12/04/07 09:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Okay, I think I can answer your question, and provide a decent explanation for you. Just bear with me for a few minutes. It should be worth it.
The short answer: Yes, in a manner of speaking, I believe that thinking a lot can cause âinsanityâŚ.â depending on what the thoughts are. But we need to clarify a few things, and I should tell you why I say this.
First of allâŚdefine âself.â Or better, what is your âmind?â (Considering it is your mind we are discussing, when referring to your level of âsanity.â)
You might be tempted to point at your brain. WellâŚyes and no. Your brain is the center of consciousness in your body, yes. But at some point, your brain will no longer receive oxygen through the bloodâŚshortly after which it will become a decaying 3 pound lump of organic matter, barely different than a rotting tree stump.
Your âmindâ is almost intangible. It is a series of neural connections in your brain, and the electrical impulses that travel through them. Your âthoughtsâ are temporary charges of electricity. Fast, and fleeting. What you are asking, here, is if we can actually âchangeâ the nature of our minds, by the process of these thoughtsâŚ
When you are learning something, what are you doing? You are attempting to build and/or strengthen certain neural connections in your brain. Attempting to do this, by thinking. Asking if thought can affect the brain in a more âtangibleâ way, is the same as asking âis it physically possible to learn?â And of course it is. Any child can tell you this.
Here is a clip, from âWhat the Bleep Do We Know?â that talks a little about this subject. A relevant quote from the clip follows. (Note: some people seem to have issues with this movie, but I find it to be informative, and nearly mind-shattering if youâre unfamiliar with the subject matter):
Quote:
From: What the BleepâŚ. "The brain is made up of tiny nerve cells called neurons. These neurons have tiny branches that reach out and connect to other neurons, to form a neural-net. Each place where they connect is integrated into a thought, or memory.
The brain builds up all its concepts by the law of associative memory. For example: Ideas, thoughts, and feelings are all constructed and inter-connected in this neural net. And all have a possible relationship with one another. The concept and the feeling of LOVE, for instance, is stored in this vast neural net. But we build the concept of love from many other different ideas. Some people have love connected to disappointment. When they think about love, they experience the memory of pain, sorrow, anger, and even rage. Rage may be linked to hurt, which may be linked to a specific person, which then is connected back to love.
Who is in the driver's seat, when we control our emotions, or we respond to our emotions? We know, physiologically, that nerve-cells that fire together, wire together. If you practice something over and over again, those nerve cells have a long-term relationship.
If you get angry on a daily basis, if you get frustrated on a daily basis, if you suffer on a daily basis, if you give reasons for the victimization in your life--you're re-wiring and re-integrating that neural net on a daily basis, and that neural net now has a long term relationship with all those other nerve cells, called an 'Identity.'
We also know that nerve cells that don't fire together, no longer wire together. They lose their long term relationship. Because every time we interrupt the thought process that produces a chemical response in the body...every time we interrupt it, those nerve cells that are connected to each other start breaking the long term relationship. When we start interrupting, and observing; not by stimulus and response, and that automatic-reaction, but by observing the effects it takes, then we are no longer the body-mind-conscious-emotional person that is responding to its environment as if it is automatic."
Basically, any time you are thinking, you are âdoing somethingâ to your brain⌠your brain is producing a physical reaction. Now, it has been shown that strong emotional reactions can serve to reinforce such connections. I think this is why psychedelics can be used as amazing tools for self-exploration and psychotherapy. I believe this is also part of the reason they pose a psychological danger.
When you take a serotonergic psychedelic like psilocybin, you are likely experiencing a very strong emotional reaction, at the same time you are having these very strong revelations, these thoughts. This can be a lot for some people to deal with, and I DO believe that it causes more âpermanentâ changes in the brain. (Note, that I say âMORE permanentâ as according to my previous ideas, a change made by thought can be un-done by thought as well.)
âInsanityâ is a somewhat vague term, and also relative. âInsanityâ is not really a term that is used by professionals, outside of a criminal or legal setting. They would be more likely to say something like âmental/emotional disorderâ or âabnormal psychology.â And what does that mean? Is depression abnormal? Anxiety? What is âabnormal?â âAb-normalâ is something on the other side of, or differing from the norm. That can be bad, but doesnât have to be.
Depression is not good. Anxiety is not good. In a case like that, I think that you should examine this MORE and not less. Perhaps psychedelics showed you something that you werenât expecting, or werenât ready for. I think figuring this out would be to your benefit. I would also advise you to not use any psychedelics for a while, until you at least get a good grasp on the reasons behind this depression and anxiety.
I hope that helped, at least somewhat. If thereâs anything you want to discuss privately, feel free to PM me. I have a good deal of experience with difficult trips, depression, anxiety, and generally weird thoughts. Haha
Peace.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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sky
Heir of Isildur
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 304
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: CidneyIndole]
#7714656 - 12/04/07 10:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I believe that everybody is already insane in their own way... "Lot's of people seem to think I'm lazy; I don't mind - I think their crazy... Running everywhere at such a speed, till they find, there's no need.. there's no need"
I already know that by society's standards I'd be considered insane; but that is not a bad thing. That is the purpose of psychadellics; to change you and take you to new areas of your mind and the universe. You're not going insane, you're just changing and uhhh.. "evolving". It's like nature starts you off at level 1 and you gotta gain experience and level yourself... that's my opinion anyway..
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evolprim
human
Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 1,226
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: psychejam]
#7717923 - 12/04/07 11:10 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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amigo you will be fine. many have gone through this before, and many will. learn to dance with your thoughts rather than try to run away from them. the healthy person has just as much chance of becoming ill as the ill one of being healthy.
pm me if you wanna chat.
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DreamSignals
Morphogenetic Truth
Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 476
Loc: the void
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: evolprim]
#7718074 - 12/05/07 12:05 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would recommend taking better care of your head. Your mind is your temple, devote yourself to it and everything bad in your life will disappear. You should go out and check out from the library some books by Carl Jung, or Alan Watts, hell even Carlos Castaneda will do the trick. Meditation will calm your anxiety faster than anything else, devote a 10-20 minutes a day to this practice and you'll notice results very very fast.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. (93) Love is the law, love under will. (93 93/93)
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Feanor
Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 1,546
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: DreamSignals]
#7718114 - 12/05/07 12:20 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dude, welcome to my world.
Honestly, psychologists who do not have psychedelic experience shouldn't be psychologists, really.
You aren't insane. Others are insane.
I envy that you live where you live!! Catch a wave or two for me. You would laugh if you saw the waves that I have to surf.
-------------------- May Terence McKenna Live Long The DMT Chronicles
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...
Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 5 months, 14 days
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: Feanor]
#7718126 - 12/05/07 12:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I started to think myself insane in 9th grade, and then I realized it and started going out more. Helped.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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poot
bottom feeder
Registered: 11/24/07
Posts: 212
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: Acaterpillar]
#7718389 - 12/05/07 03:15 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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in a worse-off tote ranging from sizes X to Z we take into account the actual thing whats worse-off in the first place. You see, meddling with the moment only cross-associates the past to the actual present worse-off condition in the only way poss. given that you have made tghe correct steps to recovery.
-------------------- possibly the last post of mine.
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cube talk
Stranger
Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 1,223
Last seen: 3 months, 14 hours
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: g00ru]
#7718437 - 12/05/07 03:59 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said: I know EXACTLY what you are talking about, that has happened to me after I did mushrooms a few times. I know it's cheesy, but as FDR said "The only thing you have to fear is fear itself"...it really is true. It's not the thinking that'll drive you nuts, its the worrying about thinking. So as others have said just relaaaaax, don't run from your thoughts embrace them, and probably don't do mushrooms again until you feel confident that you aren't crazy.
Above all, remember that you'll be fine. True craziness is a medical condition, it doesn't just happen randomly.
I've been there, ohh those thought loops. I got lost in one for about 30 minutes and was wonderin if the world even existed anymore.
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psychejam
Musician
Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 380
Loc: Surfers Paradise, Queensl...
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: cube talk]
#7718507 - 12/05/07 05:15 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I've been there, ohh those thought loops. I got lost in one for about 30 minutes and was wonderin if the world even existed anymore.
Absolutely terrifying, innit?
-------------------- "You mean we're smoking dog shit, man?!"
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Justice_Fish
Fustice_Jish
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 2,652
Loc: CebèuQ
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: psychejam]
#7718547 - 12/05/07 06:02 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not that much.
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ReoSpeedwagon153
Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: psychejam]
#7718645 - 12/05/07 07:13 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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What psychologist would suggest thinking LESS???
Going insane is necessary sometimes.
-------------------- âI thought naming myself âReoSpeedwagon153â on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.â
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker
Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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To all those people saying stuff like: "insanity doesn't mean anything were all insane we need to be insane"....be quiet, insanity is terrifying, you aren't helping anybody.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Grylls
Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 394
Loc: East of the Continental D...
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Thinking yourself insane [Re: g00ru]
#7731143 - 12/07/07 10:53 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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You cannot make yourself go insane. What defines insanity? I'd like to talk to this psychologist of yours.
The only thing one can think them self into is a state of hypochondriasis, obsessive behavior, and neuroses. Which is what anxiety can induce in individuals. Which none of those conditions constitutes insanity.
You can consider schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders as insanity, but most schizophrenics are still able to function in society. Insanity is a very general term that we cannot narrow down to a set of specific symptoms.
-------------------- Alone in the clouds all blue. Lying on an eiderdown. You can't see me, but I can you.
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