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OfflineCJJ
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Patriots Asterisk
    #7713881 - 12/04/07 02:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Why would the patriots not get an asterisk in the record book for any stats that include the Jets game?

Especially for a perfect season. How do you get credited for a perfect season when you got caught cheating in one of the games you won?


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7714568 - 12/04/07 09:57 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Not that serious of an infraction.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineCJJ
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7714629 - 12/04/07 10:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

How is capturing the opposing teams plays and hand signals so that you can run the perfect audible in response not a serious infraction?


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7714658 - 12/04/07 10:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

News flash: Sign stealing is legal in the NFL! It's perfectly permissible. Coaches, players, interested fans, television watchers, and anyone else among the thousands of folks observing an NFL game can study the histrionics of the coaches, note the defensive alignment, and steal the signs.




Quote:

All the NFL rule prohibits is using a photographer to facilitate the sign stealing.




The Patriots broke a very minor part of a rule. I hate the Patriots with a fucking passion, but I get sick of people claiming that they violated some sacred sign-stealing rule.

No, they didn't.

They just took a few pictures.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineJadian
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7714792 - 12/04/07 10:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Plus it was the Jets.

They could have taken pictures of their own plays and sent them to the Jets and still won that game.


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InvisibleLiz
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7715329 - 12/04/07 01:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jadian said:
Plus it was the Jets.

They could have taken pictures of their own plays and sent them to the Jets and still won that game.




QFT.

Seriously - the jets could have asked the Pats permission before they ran certain plays and STILL lost.


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OfflineAaronEvil
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7715352 - 12/04/07 01:09 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Its not just a question of that game. You have to wonder how often they had done that and for how long. Personally, I think they have done it numerous times and this was the only time they were caught. I also, however, am fair and I dont think its safe to assume (on a professional level) that they did it more than just this time. If the league thinks they did, they would need evidence.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: AaronEvil]
    #7715475 - 12/04/07 01:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I dont think anyone argues that that was the first time they cheated.

The only reason Man-Genius knew to tell the league was that him and Billy used to do it together.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: AaronEvil]
    #7715638 - 12/04/07 02:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

This happened their FIRST game of the season. It's not like this went on all year and they just caught it. They were stopped from doing this on the first game, and haven't been doing it since. So, they've won 12 games in a row, 11 of them since this incident, and they should have an asterisk next to their season if they go undefeated? I don't think so.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.




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OfflineJadian
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: AaronEvil]
    #7715734 - 12/04/07 02:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AaronEvil said:
Its not just a question of that game. You have to wonder how often they had done that and for how long. Personally, I think they have done it numerous times and this was the only time they were caught. I also, however, am fair and I dont think its safe to assume (on a professional level) that they did it more than just this time. If the league thinks they did, they would need evidence.





You're talking as if the Patriots are the only one that does it. I was trying to come up with a clever analogy to compare this to but I'm too drugged up on cold medication.

Basically all teams do this to a degree or another, and the Pat's got caught, big whoop.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7716131 - 12/04/07 03:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Evidence?


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: AaronEvil]
    #7716421 - 12/04/07 05:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You want evidence that teams try to get an advantage over their opponents? Are you serious?


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OfflineCJJ
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7716987 - 12/04/07 07:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Ummm video taping signs etc is a pretty big deal. And any patriot fanboys that say its very minor and they would of beat the jets anyway is terrible thats an assumption i agree very likely but that is no way minor to the jets and their fans


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7717105 - 12/04/07 07:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well, let's see. First game of the year. Before halftime. Cameraman busted. Nobody sees any of the film. Pats kill Jets. Yep, I think they would've beaten them even without the film. Since they did.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7717346 - 12/04/07 08:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CJJ said:
Ummm video taping signs etc is a pretty big deal. And any patriot fanboys that say its very minor and they would of beat the jets anyway is terrible thats an assumption i agree very likely but that is no way minor to the jets and their fans




All that has been "minor" this year for the Jets is their skill level. The jets are 3-9 and the pats are 12-0. Regardless of what happened in the 1st game of the season, the Jets are fucking awful, and the Pats are unbelievable, and find ways to win games that they don't even play well in.


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.




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OfflineCJJ
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Liz]
    #7717388 - 12/04/07 08:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I agree that the pats would destroy the jets 99 out of 100 times. BUT we dont know for sure what would of happened if they were not cheating. So how can we justify giving them an undefeated season on probability. They need an asterisk.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7717397 - 12/04/07 08:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You aren't going to put an asterisk next to the winner of a boxing match where a guy dominates and knocks the other guy out just because he hit the other guy with one low blow.


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OfflineCJJ
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7717465 - 12/04/07 09:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Ummm you would take away that boxers win or vacate the title if he was on steroids.... the point is unfair advantages = ASTERISK


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7717957 - 12/04/07 11:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jadian said:
You want evidence that teams try to get an advantage over their opponents? Are you serious?




No, I want evidence that every other team video tapes which is what has been eluded to. I know teams try to get a competitive advantage, but most teams stay within the league rules to do so.


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OfflineCJJ
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: AaronEvil]
    #7717976 - 12/04/07 11:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

They have video footage from the eagles game that shows them running an audible every time the eagles blitzed even when they wernt showing. Not to mention they constantly put random key players on the injured list.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7718040 - 12/04/07 11:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CJJ said:
They have video footage from the eagles game that shows them running an audible every time the eagles blitzed even when they wernt showing. Not to mention they constantly put random key players on the injured list.




And neither of those are cheating.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7718485 - 12/05/07 04:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CJJ said:
I agree that the pats would destroy the jets 99 out of 100 times. BUT we dont know for sure what would of happened if they were not cheating. So how can we justify giving them an undefeated season on probability. They need an asterisk.





How did they have an unfair advantage over the Jets in that game? Their photographer was taping signs from the sidelines, he got caught, we never even saw the tape before, during or after the game - so how was there an advantage in that game??


--------------------
Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.




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OfflineJadian
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Liz]
    #7718924 - 12/05/07 09:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Liz said:
Quote:

CJJ said:
I agree that the pats would destroy the jets 99 out of 100 times. BUT we dont know for sure what would of happened if they were not cheating. So how can we justify giving them an undefeated season on probability. They need an asterisk.





How did they have an unfair advantage over the Jets in that game? Their photographer was taping signs from the sidelines, he got caught, we never even saw the tape before, during or after the game - so how was there an advantage in that game??




That's what I was trying to elude to with my boxing analogy. Of course you get an asterisk if steroids are involved (COUGH BONDS COUGH) because steroids have a direct effect on the performance.

Taping something in which the tape was never seen would seem to me a minor infraction since it didn't (that we know of) affect the game. If it was discovered that the tape was a live feed to the Patriots coaching staff box, then sure asterisk the hell out of that game.


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OfflineCJJ
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7719416 - 12/05/07 12:05 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

... The patriots handed over footage they taped from a lot of teams. Last i knew they are under investigation back to that superbowl i mentioned.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7719424 - 12/05/07 12:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What does last year have to do with an asterisk on this year's season?


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Redstorm]
    #7719457 - 12/05/07 12:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The fact that if they have video tapes of the teams signals..... Teams which they played especially conference games that they should have an asterisk. They were caught red handed in the jets game is why I use that as an example.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7719497 - 12/05/07 12:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CJJ said:
... The patriots handed over footage they taped from a lot of teams. Last i knew they are under investigation back to that superbowl i mentioned.




That I was completely unaware of. So they've admitted to taping other teams last season? Have any links detailing this?


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7719512 - 12/05/07 12:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Its pretty much common knowledge that they have done this for a long time.

Like I said earlier, the only way that the Jets coach knew it was going on was because when he had been a coach on Bellicheck's team they had been doing the same thing.

So he alerted the NFL to look out for it, and that is how they (NFL) ended up catching the Pats.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineCJJ
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7719531 - 12/05/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)



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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7719601 - 12/05/07 01:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

According to that article they could have handed over home movies and copies of high school playbooks.

They don't say what was on the video's. Don't you think they would have made a much larger deal out of this if say everything they handed over showed that they'd been taping sidelines or play calling for an extended period of time?


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7719903 - 12/05/07 02:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

They burned all of it so it wouldnt be used..... are you a fanboy ?


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7719917 - 12/05/07 02:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

And you hate them just for the sake of hating them.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Redstorm]
    #7719935 - 12/05/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I hate them for the sake of ruining the integrity of the game. Its bad enough the players are being banned for steroids etc now we have to worry about this crap? The patriots are one of the biggest cheating and unfair play teams of the era and the fact that people are associating them with being the best of the best sends a terrible message.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7719936 - 12/05/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quite the opposite actually. My dad's whole side of the family is from New England and I'm a San Fransisco fan so I give them as much shit about their team and particularly this event earlier in the season as possible. I just think it's ridiculous to assume that event helped them win the game against the Jets at all.

In a lot of professional sports the attitude is you're not cheating unless you're caught.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7719970 - 12/05/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

They didn't even get to use the film against the Jets, so how did it help them win? Also, they seem to manage to blow out almost everyone else they play even afterwards. So how much help was the play stealing?

If your team was caught cheating, I'm sure you'd be defending them right now.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Redstorm]
    #7719979 - 12/05/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Im a cowboys fan and I didnt complain at all when a coach was suspended for HGH so?????


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7719983 - 12/05/07 02:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CJJ said:
Im a cowboys fan





That explains everything


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7719994 - 12/05/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Ahhh me being a cowboys fan explains everything because if i was a Giants or Panthers fan you could have some other moronism of an answer to make what the patriots did ok


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7720089 - 12/05/07 03:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Nah it's just Cowboys fans are the most stubborn of all fans, especially when talking about a competing team (We got 5 Superbowls first, haha).

I never said it was ok, I said it didn't help them win the game.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7720126 - 12/05/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think NYG and buffalo bills fans are the most stubborn


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7720134 - 12/05/07 03:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jadian said:

I never said it was ok, I said it didn't help them win the game.




I think that is the main issue. Its against the rules not that it helped them win. You break a rule you get punished. Shawn Merriman learned that the hard way, and I supported his suspension. I think the fine was ridiculous on the pats. The coaches involved (assuming it was only a few of them) should have been suspended without pay. I dont think paying a fine is a fair punishment to the other teams, nor does it send the right message.

But hey, its over with so anyone making this a huge issue right now is making a mountain out of a molehill. Lets talk about how fucked Vick is.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: AaronEvil]
    #7720151 - 12/05/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'd have no problem with them suspending coaches or taking draft picks like they started talking about, but you can't put a blemish on the season if it turns out to be perfect because of something that wouldn't affect the outcome of a game.


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7720171 - 12/05/07 03:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

How is it fair to the dolphins team who did it without cheating that they are in with the pats?


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OfflineAaronEvil
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: Jadian]
    #7720176 - 12/05/07 03:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I agree. I think the coaching staff and some of the players are arrogant assholes, but they are good. The season wasnt made by the video tape and their previous seasons werent made by video tapes. Maybe put an asterisk next to that one game but even then I dont think the Jets had a shot in hell of winning.


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There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


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OfflineCJJ
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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: AaronEvil]
    #7720279 - 12/05/07 03:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

If they asterisk one game they have to asterisk the perfect season.


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OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
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Registered: 09/27/04
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Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: CJJ]
    #7720693 - 12/05/07 05:19 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think we should asterisk this thread for being gay.


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There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Patriots Asterisk [Re: AaronEvil]
    #7721033 - 12/05/07 06:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

*


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