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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
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Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA]
#7712579 - 12/03/07 07:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not too bright...
Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom December 3, 2007 - turnto23.com
SHAFTER, Calif. -- A Shafter High School teacher is under arrest Monday night in connection with manufacturing methamphetamine on campus, according to the Bakersfield Police Department.
Investigators searched the home and classroom of chemistry teacher Jeff Scheidemantel and found recipes for the manufacture of methamphetamine, several firearms and chemicals used to make methamphetamine.
Authorities also found computer equipment storing information regarding the manufacture of methamphetamine.
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drew345
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: veggie]
#7712653 - 12/03/07 07:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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not so secret tweaker pad
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Riboflavin



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: veggie]
#7713362 - 12/03/07 10:40 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Makes for a good reply in chemistry class when the kids ask "When are we ever going to need to know this stuff anyways?".
-------------------- All that groks is God.
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kidaihuan
First Growery Ban



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: drew345]
#7713369 - 12/03/07 10:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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But...
That is the last place someone would look.
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: kidaihuan]
#7713499 - 12/03/07 11:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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holy shit. meth in a chem lab?????
what a surprise.
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
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Alphanautics
Goonmaster



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: kriminalelement]
#7713508 - 12/03/07 11:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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damn.. when you talk about meth labs, they're usually low key scummies like underground trailors and brackish kiddi-pools in the deep south, not high profile ass chem class shit...
why not cook up some molly?? maybe then the community wouldn't be so upset with yer tweakin ass, right?? damn..!
-------------------- Word em up
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JaComet
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: Alphanautics]
#7714025 - 12/04/07 05:05 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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My High School Chem teacher cooked Acid. It WAS the ‘60’s though.
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Chemy
Jesus is Lord

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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] *DELETED* [Re: JaComet]
#7714470 - 12/04/07 09:27 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: If you are sure you want to do this, click the button below.
Yes, I want to delete this post.
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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PoisonedV
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: Chemy]
#7715715 - 12/04/07 02:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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As a chemist, I can vouch for this guy being a dickweed. More bad rep for chemistry. Say bye-bye to home experimenters.
-------------------- Lazy...
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: Chemy]
#7715786 - 12/04/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said: If he was a chemistry teacher why would he need "recipes" for making this garbage? Sounds fishy to me.
Have you ever met a highschool chemistry teacher?
I went to some summer school, and with that and first year, I took more chem than the chemistry teachers have to take for a bachler's.
Most teachers learn more about teaching theory and other bullshit than about the subject there supposed to be teaching.
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Chemy
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] *DELETED* [Re: johnm214]
#7716059 - 12/04/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by ChemyReason for deletion: If you are sure you want to do this, click the button below.
Yes, I want to delete this post.
-------------------- Alcoholics Anonymous Narcotics Anonymous Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365. God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin. Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!
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johnm214



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: Chemy]
#7716113 - 12/04/07 03:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ah, but I really don't think this is so.
The listed chemicals aren't illegal to posses, only to sell as a regular course of buisness- (though there are illegal assembly and conspiracy/attempt laws that could also be invoked).
But why would this guy have phosphorus? I don't get it... what would you use that for? Iodine can be a neat sublimation expirement.
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Diploid
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: johnm214]
#7716804 - 12/04/07 06:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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But why would this guy have phosphorus?
Red phosphorus is a key ingredient in most popular synthetic routes to methamphetamine. It's used to make a component of the reaction that reduces (pseudo)ephedrine to methamphetamine and to shift the equilibrium of another reaction to keep it from undoing itself when you turn off the heat to the reaction vessel.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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johnm214



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: Diploid]
#7716936 - 12/04/07 07:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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oh yeah, I get that part...
I was saying that schools and institutions get accounts w/ chemical suppliers very easy, and can order pretty much anything (legally, so can you unless its scheduled or state law prohibits it but alot of chompanies won't sell to you w/out hassles).
But once you place the order, how do you justify it when the school asks or the DEA wonders what the school is doing w/ red phosphorus?
I've never seen and alcohol-reduction in any highschool nor a general college organic class, that I recall, that used phosphorus.
Just not that basic of a reaction.
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: johnm214]
#7717293 - 12/04/07 08:28 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was saying that schools and institutions get accounts w/ chemical suppliers very easy
Not in this case. Red and White Phosphorus is on DEA List 1. Unless you're a licensed pharmaceutical company, you can't get it legally.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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johnm214



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: Diploid]
#7717479 - 12/04/07 09:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not true man.
You and I can buy it legally under federal law (at least for red, I don't know about white).
List I only puts restrictions on suppliers, generally. It is illegal to purchase for the purpose of manufacturing, or fraudulently, but you can buy it no probs if someone will sell it to you.
I believe your confusing List and Scheduled terminology, which are not the same thing.
And being a pharmaceutical company has nothing to do with the scheduled drugs per se. Anyone complying w/ state regs and having need of a scheduled substance can apply. This includes researchers in chemistry, biology, pharmacy, and medicine, among others. Plenty of list I chemicals are perfectly innocuous anyways.
I've worked w/ hypophosporic acid, iodine, and consumed ephedrine and pseudoephedrine. None of that was illegal.
Take a look at List II for some real insane shit.
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: johnm214]
#7717538 - 12/04/07 09:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not true man.
It IS true. Red and White Phosphorus has been DEA List I since 2001.
--
Drug Enforcement Administration
21 CFR Parts 1309 and 1310
Control of Red Phosphorus, White Phosphorus and Hypophosphorous Acid (and its salts) as List I Chemicals
ACTION: Final Rule with request for comments.
SUMMARY: This rulemaking finalizes a September 25, 2000 Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (65 FR 57577) in which DEA proposed the addition of red phosphorus, white phosphorus (also known as yellow phosphorus) and hypophosphorous acid (and its salts) as List I chemicals. This action is being taken because of the use and importance of these chemicals in the illicit manufacture of methamphetamine (a Schedule II controlled substance).
As List I chemicals, all handlers of these materials will be subject to CSA chemical regulatory controls including registration, recordkeeping, reporting, and import/export requirements. The Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) has determined that these controls are necessary to prevent the diversion of these chemicals to clandestine drug laboratories.
Given the small quantities of these chemicals necessary for the production of methamphetamine, no threshold is being established for domestic and international transactions. As such, all transactions (regardless of size) shall be considered regulated transactions
frwebgate.access.gpo.gov
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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johnm214



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: Diploid]
#7717558 - 12/04/07 09:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, I was saying you can legally buy it, unless there are some requirements related to the possible pyrotechnic uses of it.
I agree it is list I- just saying their is no reason that in-and-of-itself prevents personal purchase or possesion nor penalizes such in the absence of intent to manufacture or fraud, at the federal level.
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Diploid
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: johnm214]
#7717630 - 12/04/07 09:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree it is list I- just saying their is no reason that in-and-of-itself prevents personal purchase or possesion
You ARE aware that when the DEA lists a substance, you can no longer possess it legally without explicit permission, aren't you?? That's what "Listing" a substance means.
Quote:
As List I chemicals, all handlers of these materials will be subject to CSA chemical regulatory controls including registration, recordkeeping, reporting, and import/export requirements.
That ^^^ means it's against Federal Law to possess it without a DEA registration.
Quote:
Given the small quantities of these chemicals necessary for the production of methamphetamine, no threshold is being established
That ^^^ means that any quantity, no matter how small, can only be legally possessed by someone with DEA registration.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
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Loc: Americas
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: Diploid]
#7717652 - 12/04/07 09:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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that is the federal register, it is neither law nor regulation
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: johnm214]
#7717704 - 12/04/07 09:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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it is neither law nor regulation
The Federal Law that empowers the DEA is the Controlled Substances Act. Under that law, and via the Federal Register, they have Listed Red and White Phosphorus.
That means that if you possess it without permission, they can arrest you.
If you still think you can easily buy red phosphorus, how about a link with a price that doesn't require DEA registration to buy? I'll bet you can't find one.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: Diploid]
#7717751 - 12/04/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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All the major suppliers of chemicals have no sales to the general public anyways, but I never said it was easy to buy regardless. Buying water through a chemical supply house as an individual is almost impossible.
But you made the affirmative claim that there was a law prohibiting possesion, and thus have the burden of demonstrating it.
ANd the federal register is not the means by which the promulgate their regulations, its via the code of federal regulations, which only has force to the extent authorized by the law. I don't believe there's anything in the CFR regulating individual possesion of those drugs either.
Here is the law generally prohibiting simple possesion of scehduled and listed chemicals in certain circumstances:
21USC§ 844. Penalties for simple possession http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/21/844.html#a
I can't find anything in there, maybe you can.
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Diploid
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: johnm214]
#7717801 - 12/04/07 10:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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ANd the federal register is not the means by which the promulgate their regulations, its via the code of federal regulations I don't believe there's anything in the CFR regulating individual possesion of those drugs either.
Code of Federal Regulations Section 1310.02 says:
The Administrator may add or delete a substance as a listed chemical by publishing a final rule in the Federal Register. The following chemicals have been specifically designated by the Administrator of the Drug Enforcement Administration
After that, there is a list which includes Red and White Phosphorus.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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johnm214



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: Diploid]
#7718079 - 12/05/07 12:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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The federal register is just a quazi journal whereby the governent affects notice of certain acts.
I really don't know what to tell you. I agree that phosphorus is listed and that the rule was published via the Register.
But possesion of list I chemicals does not require registration, is not illegal under federal law, and I can't find anything to the contrary.
Feel free to show contrary authority
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: johnm214]
#7718102 - 12/05/07 12:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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> But possesion of list I chemicals does not require registration, is not illegal under federal law
That is true.
Ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, along with many other common things are list I chemicals.
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#7718176 - 12/05/07 12:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, along with many other common things are list I chemicals.
That's right. And because individual possession of two boxes of (pseudo)ephedrine, which I think is the law in most (all?) states, isn't enough to make much if any usable methamphetamine, such small amounts are exempt from DEA registration regulations.
But I guess you guys just aren't reading my posts. Here again is the relevant part of the law as relates specifically to Red and White Phosphorus:
Given the small quantities of these chemicals necessary for the production of methamphetamine, no threshold is being established for domestic and international transactions. As such, all transactions (regardless of size) shall be considered regulated transactions
Read the part that says: "REGARDLESS OF SIZE" over and over again. It will eventually sink in. 
That means the DEA can lock you up for possessing a single molecule without permission. The only exemption is when the Red or White Phosphorus is part of something else manufactured by someone with DEA registration. Match strikers, for example, contain Red Phosphorus.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: Diploid]
#7718271 - 12/05/07 01:25 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Diploid, I agree there is no presumed transaction threshold unless specified.
That quote (citation please) does not establish you must be registered to purchase a list I chemical or that you are prohibited from possesing it. The law covers people selling the products, they must take certain steps such as verifying identity and recording the transaction.
The actual purchaser has no CSA-related duty to do anything, and his purchase is not illegal unless some fraud or intent is demonstrated. Aside from a non-authoritative snippet from the fed. reg. there has been no citation to the contrary. I've posted the law regarding possesion of scheduled and listed substances, and though the Act is quite a bit larger than that, and there are other requirments, nothing has been found to challenge my understanding.
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BrAiN
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: PoisonedV]
#7718553 - 12/05/07 06:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PoisonedV said: As a chemist, I can vouch for this guy being a dickweed. More bad rep for chemistry. Say bye-bye to home experimenters.
fo real.... if you're gonna get arrested for making drugs at school at least make some E, damnit.. something WORTH getting popped for! hehe
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sunspun
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: BrAiN]
#7898551 - 01/18/08 06:13 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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So johnm214 and diploid, which is it? Can you or can you not still buy white (or red, but preferably white) phosphorus anywhere in the US these days, in any amount at all, without a license or permit or whatever they might require? It sounds like the answer may be yes, in small quantities, as long as the seller doesn't suspect you want to use it for something illegal?
Anyone know of anywhere it can be bought online currently? I'm in Oklahoma, if that makes a difference...
Thanks~ cool forum u have here, btw!
sunspun
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Diploid
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: sunspun]
#7898605 - 01/18/08 06:26 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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Don't take my word for it. Go look it up for yourself at dea.gov, though I've already quoted and linked the relevant laws.
Better still, order a kilogram of red from China online (if you can find it, which you probably can't because it's illegal to possess without a DEA permit) then sit back and see how long it takes the law to break down your front door.
Be sure to let us know how it went down when you get out. 
The only way you can get red is by way of it being an intrinsic part of a manufactured product, like matchbooks, which are manufactured by companies with DEA permits.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
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Re: Teacher Arrested For Making Meth In Classroom [CA] [Re: johnm214]
#7898639 - 01/18/08 06:34 PM (16 years, 14 days ago) |
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That quote (citation please) does not establish you must be registered to purchase a list I chemical
Not all list 1 chemicals are the same.
You can buy some list 1 chemicals like (pseudo)ephedrine in small amount (two boxes at most pharmacies) without registration. Other list 1 chemicals like red you DO have to be registered for.
I've already linked and quoted citations several times. Read back through the thread.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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