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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: johnm214]
    #7712978 - 12/03/07 09:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

you can hear practically everything in the 911 tapes.

he opens the door, shouts "hey" and pops off 3 shots.


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Offlined33p
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: afoaf]
    #7713167 - 12/03/07 10:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
you can hear practically everything in the 911 tapes.

he opens the door, shouts "hey" and pops off 3 shots.




He also says "Move and you're dead." Supposedly they started coming toward him. They were shot facing him on his own property. I see nothing wrong with what he did. The 911 tape does sound bad but he only said "I gonna kill'em" in response to the operator telling him that they will shoot him if he goes outside. Alone, it is taken out of context. One thing that does puzzle me is why the third shell fired is so delayed.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7713300 - 12/03/07 10:24 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sorry...but I'm vigilante to the core. I have no problem with two burglars getting blown away. Good riddance.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #7713936 - 12/04/07 03:37 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

> Why do you guys feel that it is somehow a fundamentally different matter when it isn't your own property you're protecting?

I never claimed property; I said home. There is a difference, in my mind, between shooting somebody that breaks into your home, where your family lives, where your children sleep, and going out looking for somebody breaking the law and shooting them. The first case, you are defending your home. The second case, you are actively seeking to engage a criminal. To me, this is the difference.

If the police weren't so busy tossing "druggies" in jail, perhaps they would have time to catch/prevent home invasion robberies.

> If you see someone getting robbed on the street, does that suddenly mean you aren't to get involved?

Again, self defense. There is a difference between protecting yourself from a mugger and going out looking for criminals that are mugging others.

> Even if you you witnessed someone breaking into a strangers vehicle, would you not feel obligated to intervene?

Intervene in what way? Shoot them dead? Ooops, sorry, it was your cousin getting something out of your car for you? Didn't mean to kill her; thought she was a thief. Oh well.

I'm not saying that it is wrong to intervene, but a gun doesn't give one the right to become Sheriff Joe gunning down bad guys.

> Maybe I'm misreading some of you, but I don't think the use of deadly force should be limited to protecting yourself or your property.

Yourself, and your family within your home. Property is replaceable, life is not.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: d33p]
    #7714199 - 12/04/07 07:45 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
If you break into someone's house, you deserve death. I don't care if captain kangaroo kill you.





I agree, but then again...people can't be taking the law into their own hands when it ISNT their property, because you'll never know the whole situation.

What if, hypothetically, my teenage son was a drug addict and I kicked him out of the house to teach him a lesson, but he broke into my house to steal a tv while I was gone? Even if it IS my someone breaking in to steal a TV, it's my FUCKING SON. How do you think I'm going to feel about my neighbor when he starts blasting and kills my son regardless of whether or not he's a drug addict? I'm gonna fuckin' press charges that's what.

What if YOU're the one that does the blasting, thinking you're a hero and you find out you just killed your neighbor's kid? huh? It would be a little hard to live with yourself, don't you think?

True these dudes were black and the guy was probably 99.99999 percent sure they weren't related to his neighbor.

But I could pull a trigger and kill someone breaking into my house and I wouldn't feel bad. I could never pull it on someone breaking into a neighbor's house because I *just* *don't* know the situation. I couldn't say with 100% certaintty that this person deserves to die.

For all we know the neighbor was trying to donate stuff and called some friends to take away some old junk and the door was locked, so the neirghbor just told them to hop through a window which was unlocked. If you're sitting there with a shotgun next door you just DONT KNOW if this is the situation.

YOU DON'T KNOW. YOU DON'T KNOW. YOU DON'T FUCKING KNOW BECAUSE IT ISN'T YOUR HOUSE.

If you're going to use LETHAL FORCE you better be 100% damn sure it's justified.

We can't take the law into our own hands and for good reason.

Edited by BrAiN (12/04/07 07:52 AM)

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InvisibleArp
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: BrAiN]
    #7714325 - 12/04/07 08:34 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

What if your drugged up son breaks into someone elses home? Would he deserve to die?

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OfflineSyle
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: Arp]
    #7714388 - 12/04/07 08:57 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Arp said:
What if your drugged up son breaks into someone elses home? Would he deserve to die?




sadly enough yes  :frown:  and that would mean as a parent that somewhere along the line I failed to instill within my child good principles. although, i am convinced some people are just born bad in some cases.


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InvisibleBIGSWANG
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: Arp]
    #7714394 - 12/04/07 08:59 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

there are a lot of ifs, and or buts that can be brought up in this instance, but the simple fact is he shot two thieves robbing his neighbors house.

id give this guy a high five if he stopped my house from being robbed.

i know there is a lot of PLUR on this website, and thats why most of you cant comprehend what he did for his neighbors and the community, and consider it instead to be a crime. Thats why texas will always be number 1 on my list for best places in the country. I live in nyc now, im not even allowed to own a gun, much less shoot someone that is trying to rob me. I have to sit idely by, while i wait for some high school drop out to come assess the situation. If i shot some guy raping my child, i would go to jail in nyc. That my friends, is retarded.


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OfflineSyle
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7714414 - 12/04/07 09:06 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BIGSWANG said:
there are a lot of ifs, and or buts that can be brought up in this instance, but the simple fact is he shot two thieves robbing his neighbors house.

id give this guy a high five if he stopped my house from being robbed.

i know there is a lot of PLUR on this website, and thats why most of you cant comprehend what he did for his neighbors and the community, and consider it instead to be a crime. Thats why texas will always be number 1 on my list for best places in the country. I live in nyc now, im not even allowed to own a gun, much less shoot someone that is trying to rob me. I have to sit idely by, while i wait for some high school drop out to come assess the situation. If i shot some guy raping my child, i would go to jail in nyc. That my friends, is retarded.




QFT


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InvisibleArp
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7714444 - 12/04/07 09:18 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Welp we're still just talking about "stuff". If someone threatens your life it's a different story imho, but threatens stuff? Neh I don't think anyone deserve the death penalty for a TV and a broken window.

At least he could have shot them in the legs :tongue:

Perhaps these kinda crimes are common over there and people are fed up.
I could understand that.

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InvisibleBIGSWANG
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: Arp]
    #7714468 - 12/04/07 09:26 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

its not that thieves are common, its that people have the right to protect themselves, and their belongings. No one should have to rely on a police officer to secure what is rightfully theirs. I know this was his neighbors stuff, but i bet they were good friends, and the neighbor probably would have done the same for him.

did they deserve to die for stealing an xbox, no.  Did the man have the right to try and stop them, i believe so. They just happened to die in the process, they must have been allergic to bullets.:lol:


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7714487 - 12/04/07 09:32 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

My point has nothing to do with PLUR. If they are stealing shit then they should get capped in the ass. But I'm saying that if you extend the right to blow ppl away for breaking in beyond your OWN house into OTHER people's houses, you're creating a LOT more liability and a lot more doubt as to whehter or not the person deserves to get killed.

I've seen a lotta ppl snooping around my neighbors houses in my lifetime when it turned out they were either (a) at the wrong house (b) gas/electric men men (c) cops in plain clothes (d) locked outta their own house trying to get INTO their own house and I didn't know it was a family member trying to get in.

If we start giving ppl the right to blast people your neighbors suspect then we;re gonna have a lotta trigger happy Texans killing more and more people that look like burglars who aren't.

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InvisibleBIGSWANG
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: BrAiN]
    #7714606 - 12/04/07 10:07 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

they were on his property at some point

and im sure he knew his neighbors well enough to know that two black guys wouldnt enter the house through a broken window.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7714661 - 12/04/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

True.. but if we start allowing that kind of behavior, not every situation is going to be so cut and dry

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InvisibleBIGSWANG
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: BrAiN]
    #7714675 - 12/04/07 10:25 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

you are right, but untill that day comes

shoot them god damn robbers, yeeeeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaaaa


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7714731 - 12/04/07 10:37 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BIGSWANG said:
they must have been allergic to bullets.




:rotfl:

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: BIGSWANG]
    #7714797 - 12/04/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

..."Never was a horse that needed stealing, but some men need killing."


Texas Judge Roy Bean upon a journalist question of why he always hung horse thieves and released some murderers.

:grin:


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7714964 - 12/04/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

You guys ever see the wild west episode of ren and stimpy (the last episode that John K did)?

OoOOooohhhh

the lord loves a hangin
that's why he gave us necks
it losens up our vocal cords
and straightens out our pecks

so if you are a horse thief
and guilty to the boOOOOOOOOne
just go ahead and blame a friend
so you won't hang aloOonnnNNNne

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8580315 - 06/30/08 01:30 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

GREAT NEWS!



"A Harris County grand jury decided today that Joe Horn should not be charged with a crime for shooting two suspected burglars he confronted outside his neighbor's home in Pasadena last fall.
Aside from the shooting itself, the national debate revolved around the fact that Ortiz and Torres were illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres had been sent to prison for dealing cocaine and was deported in 1999."



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5864151.html




VIVA TEXAS!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: lonestar2004]
    #8580446 - 06/30/08 02:10 PM (15 years, 10 months ago)

I presume you concede the burglars' criminal past is totally irrelevant?  I think it certainly is

I think he should definatly have been indicted.  Who knows, I might not have convicted.  But to say there's no probable cause in this case is a stretch. 

I'm all for jury nullification, and may have aquited him at trial, I'd certainly try to find a way how, however; I've seen no evidence he was in any substantial danger or that his conduct was protected by the law, thus, he should have been indicted.  I also don't see any reason for the shots.

At least he should have fired warning shots first. 

I'm pretty fervent in the right to bear arms and to defend yourself and be afforded the benefit of the doubt in tricky situations, but this situation makes no damn sense at all.  Now I don't think he should have been punished as severly as a man in a general case of a shooting, but to say their was no probable cause is silly.

I wonder if the prosecutor really tried to get the indictment?  Maybe the jurors will talk....




"Don't hate the player hate the game... :rofl:... I wonder which side that protestor was on?





Oh, and.... lol



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