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Offlinelonestar2004
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Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars
    #7710240 - 12/03/07 10:43 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Riot police were on the scene in a Pasadena neighborhood Sunday afternoon as a planned protest teetered on the brink of mayhem.

Quanell X and his followers planned to meet in front of the home of Joe Horn, the man who shot and killed two suspected burglars at his neighbor’s home last month, in the 7400 block of Timberline for a protest around 3 p.m.

But they were met with an even larger group of protesters in support of Horn’s actions.

The Horn supporters, many of whom appeared to come from outside the neighborhood, crowded around Quanell X and his group, revving motorcycles, hoisting signs in support of Horn and chanting “U-S-A! U-S-A!”

“The neighborhood does not want that man here. They don’t want him here. He’s not welcome in this neighborhood. They don’t want him,” Blowout, a pro- Horn protester, said.


Once Quanell X and his supporters left the neighborhood, the protesters marched along the streets, cheering.

“We have a right to bear arms, and we’re not afraid to use it. So criminals in Texas, watch out!” protester Jenni Foster said.


Quanell X and his supporters returned shortly afterward.

“From the very beginning, we said that what the two brothers did was wrong. We don’t condone breaking into somebody’s house. But we are here today because we believe that it’s not right for anyone to become judge, jury and executioner, “ Quanell said, speaking into a bullhorn over angry shouts from the crowd.

“It’s a matter of justice. It’s a matter of fairness. It’s a matter of respecting the law,” he said.

Quanell said the scene was indicative of the biased attitude in the neighborhood.


“If you’ll notice, nobody with us has pushed anybody. Nobody with us has made a racial remark … It’s what I expected. It’s not what I wanted, but it’s what I expected,” Quanell said. “The real question is, be honest, tell the truth. You watched them push, you watched them kick, you watched them shove. Did any of us do that?”

The neighborhood has been awash in controversy ever since the two men, Miguel Dejesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were shot.

The whole thing started when Horn called 911 to say that two men were breaking into his neighbor’s home.

In a tape of the 911 call released to the media, the emergency operator can be heard urging Horn to remain in his home and wait for police to arrive.

“You’re gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don’t care what you think,” the operator said.

Horn disagreed.

“You wanna make a bet?” he said. “I’m gonna kill ‘em.”

After the shooting, a shaken Horn called 911 again.

“I had no choice,” he said. “They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick.”

Pasadena police are compiling a report on the incident and plan to present the case to Harris County prosecutors, according to police spokesman Vance Mitchell. From there, it’s expected to be presented to a grand jury. In the meantime, Horn remains uncharged.

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they could otherwise be killed. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbor’s property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he’s out of town.

The question will be whether it was reasonable for Horn to fear the men and whether his earlier threats on the 911 call showed he planned to kill them no matter what, said Fred C. Moss, who teaches criminal law at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.

“That’s what makes it so hard and that’s why we have juries,” Moss said.

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou071202_tnt_pasadenaprotest.5f508ed6.html






Video: Quanell X and the New Black Panther Party Confronted by Joe Horn Supporters

http://blogsofwar.com/


"This is ten minutes of raw video that I recorded at today’s rally in support of Joe Horn in Pasadena. The video starts with the arrival of Quanell X and a handful of his New Black Panther Party minions. What Quanell might not have known is that several hundred Joe Horn supporters, including about a hundred bikers, were waiting for their arrival. It quickly became, as expected, pretty intense. Everyone got incredibly noisy, there was some pushing and shoving, and I got the real sense that the crowd was going to lose control at times.

In the video you’ll see Quanell and his group march up to Joe Horn’s house and attempt to speak to the media (which is the only reason they’re there) and get denied by the huge crowd and roaring Harleys. Quanell and friends then attempt to move to another street and speak to the media but the crowd follows and chants “USA! USA!” until he and his friends retreat - quickly. The pro-Joe crowd was raucous and intimidating but mostly in control. Watching Quanell almost break out in tears over his inability to get media time was just priceless.

The biker angle has been played up by the media but most of the crowd seemed to come from Joe Horn supporters in the neighborhood. Many seemed to be there primarily to stand in opposition to the racist and sensationalist tactics of Quanell X. They accomplished their mission."





“The Shooting”
http://images.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/07/audio/911shooting/shooting.mp3

“Entire call with the shooting”
http://images.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/07/audio/911shooting/whole.mp3

“After the shooting”
http://images.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/07/audio/911shooting/after.mp3


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7710247 - 12/03/07 10:47 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Joe Horn will not be indicted in Texas.


A man who lives a few streets down from me killed a Katrina victim who was trying to steal his car stereo.


A TEXAS grand jury no-billed him in 5 minutes.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (12/03/07 10:52 AM)

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7710278 - 12/03/07 10:58 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Horn is a fucking nutjob.

He wasn't protecting his own property and I don't believe you can protect other's property with lethal force. He knows he did wrong. I've seen an interview with him days afterwards and he realizes what he did was not right. There is a reason we have police officers; vigilante justice is outrageous and should not be condoned.

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7710283 - 12/03/07 11:00 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

if he's not prosecuted, it's a grave injustice.

what he did was foul.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: afoaf]
    #7710313 - 12/03/07 11:08 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

IN Cali Joe Horn might get 10-20 years in prison. IN Texas you get a Medal. (Different State Laws)


I would not want Joe Horn or the guy who killed the Katrina Victim living near my house! (stray bullets!)


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7710337 - 12/03/07 11:17 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

indeed. two extreme ends of the spectrum.

quanell x makes a point.

no one should be judge, jury and executioner.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: afoaf]
    #7710357 - 12/03/07 11:22 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

did u see the video? quanell x has big balls to march in that neighborhood. If he tried that shit here on the (WEEEEST SIDE!!) S.A. some crazy Vato would have shanked him.:grin:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (12/03/07 11:24 AM)

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Offlined33p
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7710404 - 12/03/07 11:34 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

If you break into someone's house, you deserve death. I don't care if captain kangaroo kill you.

But that 911 call was... well... not good.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: d33p]
    #7710410 - 12/03/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I could see if it was his house...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7710471 - 12/03/07 11:49 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

what's up with the victims...they're black with hispanic names.

my racism is confused!?


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

Edited by afoaf (12/03/07 12:47 PM)

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: afoaf]
    #7710570 - 12/03/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Blexicans.

Don't worry, you can still hate them.

Two wrongs don't make a right.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: afoaf]
    #7710572 - 12/03/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

> what's up with the victims...their black with hispanic names.

Fairly common in the Caribbean... usually speak Spanish to go along with the Hispanic names as well.

> I could see if it was his house...

Thats was my thought when reading the story. There is a huge difference between protecting your home and gunning down somebody in your neighbor's home. The first is unfortunate, the second is vigilante justice.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: Seuss]
    #7710721 - 12/03/07 12:29 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Why do you guys feel that it is somehow a fundamentally different matter when it isn't your own property you're protecting?

If you see someone getting robbed on the street, does that suddenly mean you aren't to get involved? Of course not. Even if you you witnessed someone breaking into a strangers vehicle, would you not feel obligated to intervene?

Now, I will agree that I think he overreacted. From what I remember reading about this, when confronted the guys dropped the stolen goods and took off running. To then shoot them was uneccessary and since he had already stated his intent to the 911 operator, I think makes it more egregious. Had he not said that, I might have been able to believe he just panicked during the confrontation and did something he didn't intend.

Maybe I'm misreading some of you, but I don't think the use of deadly force should be limited to protecting yourself or your property. Although as I said, in this particular situation I do think it was uncalled for.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #7710830 - 12/03/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with your assessment.

the 911 tape is condemning.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Offlineallreadyused
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7710912 - 12/03/07 01:05 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
I could see if it was his house...




The 2 people were in his yard when he shot them.

I have no problem what so ever with what this guy did. The only thing I would have done different is not called 911 until after I shot them. That if anything is where he fucked up. He did the world a favor by removing these pieces of shit from the population. I love Texas!


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Everything I say is for entertainment.

Fuck the ASPCA

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #7711051 - 12/03/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

HagbardCeline said:

  From what I remember reading about this, when confronted the guys dropped the stolen goods and took off running.








I thought both were shot in the chest and one shot again in the neck.

Its hard to get shot in the chest while fleeing....



Horn redialed 911 and told the dispatcher what he'd done.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."



Horn went outside, armed with a 12-gauge shotgun, to see where the burglars were heading when he came face-to-face with them in Horn's front yard, Lambright said.

The suspected burglars were young and strong enough to beat him to death with their bare hands, Lambright said. So when one or both of them "made lunging movements," Horn fired.

"He's trying to protect his own life," Lambright said. "He's scared."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D8T5L4GO0.html


USA...

jail for killin dogs

freedom for killin thieves:smirk:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: afoaf]
    #7711067 - 12/03/07 01:46 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
what's up with the victims...they're black with hispanic names.

my racism is confused!?




I'm not sure i feel comfortable answering that question.:smirk:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7711295 - 12/03/07 02:45 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

In the state of Texas, it's legal for people robbing your home to be shot. What difference would it make if the home owner was home and shot them both dead?

Rob=Risk getting shot :shrug:

The Law in TEXAS, clearly okays thieves being shot dead. What's the difference to THEM? That's why this guy is going to get off.

If you know such a law exists in the state, what are you doing robbing homes unless you are willing to risk getting shot at and maybe killed.

They took a chance to get their hands on some stolen goods in the state of TEXAS and lost.

Moral of the story.

Do not rob a home in Texas.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7712721 - 12/03/07 08:21 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

i won't be surprised if he's charged following an investigation and i won't be disappointed if he's convicted.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Protesters clash over Pasadena man who shot suspected burglars [Re: afoaf]
    #7712853 - 12/03/07 08:56 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
if he's not prosecuted, it's a grave injustice.

what he did was foul.




I agree. I am very much for the notion that you can defend your residence with deadly force. But it really seems like this guy just went out to shoot these guys.

Depending on his side of the story, it really seems like he should be convicted. Unless he can demonstrate he went out and told them to surender and they charged him or something...

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