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Offlinebryanbzl
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Re: Late Casing [Re: MotorCityMadman]
    #7711383 - 12/03/07 05:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

im not to sure about this, but wouldn't this make the same result (for cakes) as putting the top resevoir on the cakes? someone on this forum has used the top reservoirs instead of the dunk and roll and has made some really big shrooms.

does anyone get what im talking about? It makes sense that it would work in the same way, no?


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Re: Late Casing [Re: fahtster]
    #7711630 - 12/03/07 06:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

This is how I learned to case 4 years ago- I am glad the bandwagon is getting going.


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Re: Late Casing [Re: MotorCityMadman]
    #7711865 - 12/03/07 06:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

hey, thanks all  :bigjoint:

DrWatson-- funny you say that, I think I actually started using the wax paper, what was it RR, a few years ago now?  when HF and myself were using the greenhouses and doing grain casings... RR picked it up and I stopped using it.. which is cool (RR gave me the idea for the clone to grain jars so I guess it's even stephen hehehe)

it was a GH like this...


I was having troubles with the grain drying out so I laid parchment paper (which was a bad idea actually since parchment paper will absorb water so you need to use wax paper) over the grain trays with holes in the paper for ventilation to try and slow the drying of the grains.. worked well, but I fixed my gh setup so I didn't need the wax paper anymore.

I'm glad it caught on and didn't get forgotten, because I def. forgot about it. lol... maybe it'll make it's way full circle..  As long as it's well ventilated it would definitely shrink that environment down from the entirety of the bin to just above the substrate... it would keep dripping water off the sub from the lid as well.. good idea. :thumbup:

The first 7 pics in this thread are of about 12 inch high tubs.. so the fruits have about 8 inches of head room which is pretty good.. they usually don't tend to get much bigger than this..


which is about when they start touching the press and seal lid. :smile:

that PE bin that has all the sections in it is a mini dub tub.. the bottom piece is 6 inches high and the same size bin was just put on top of that up-side-down.  it didn't work out all that great.. the gap between where the two bins met was too big and the tub dried out quite a bit.

MCM- The rh in the bins does have to be high with the no casing for pins to develop, but I don't seem to have any problems with that in these bins... in fact water tends to pool and I have to suck it up paper towel  but the fruits don't seem to be aborting and most see it to maturation so I don't think that dryness is too much of a factor with the size of these bins.

With those HB bins I have micropore tape covering four holes on each of the long sides and two on each of the short sides (give or take a hole here and there lol) then theres a press and seal lid that I use and poke a pin hole about every 2 inches like so...


I just overlap the PNS and tape down the middle.. that is actually one of the HB bins on it's second flush.. I just get sooo damn lazy about the second flushes so normally there would be a pin hole every two inches and I wouldn't have used a knife tip lol  but really.. that second flush comes so damn fast, it would almost be a waste of my time to be too meticulous with these bins after the first flush. 

I just took pics of this bin because it's almost done.. heres a good example of the head room the fruits have in these bins.. you can also the holes covered with micropore tape.. love that stuff, super easy to apply and take off. :thumbup:


notice how the nipple juuuuuust goes over the top of the bin.  thats about picking time but I usually let em go a little longer because they look cool lol  heres the rest of the tub on the second flush... all the second flushes of these bins grow most of the fruits on the edges.. I'm wondering if this is because I just float the subs.. so next round of bins I'm going to try completely dunking two of them.. one I'll case right away after the dunk and one I'll wait until I see pins again (probably around three days after the dunk) then I'll add the casing then and see there is any noticeable difference in the two and if there is.. repeat with two more bins and see if the difference is again noticeable and there. :thumbup:  heres the bin 2nd flush..

 

those were this tub on it's first.. 


the room they are in looks like this...


the fans run 24/7.. the large light is a daylight floro that is just leaning up against the wall.. I like that it's easy to move around.  when the bins are colonizing I air the bins out every other day.  once the bins are pinning and are cased, I rotate the bins 180 degrees and air out once every day.  I've got the time to air it out so I don't neglect it at all..  I'm lazy, but not that lazy lol.  I did lose that substrate in the bin that had all those open caps in the first flush, but I think thats because I fucked up the dunking and didn't have very good ventilation while it sat in the water for 24 hours.. got hit with trich.. or it could that my fans are so dirty. lol  I'm pretty lax on my cleanliness, but that doesn't mean you should be.. I'll usually ditch the subs after the second flush.. the third is usually small of enough to be a waste of time when I need the space for new bins.  most make it to the second no problem. :smile:  to air out, I just fold back the PNS on one corner about three inches, then on the opposite side the bin I open about 4 inches of the PNS on the entire side... then just fan air in and the old stuff gets pushed out that opened corner.. so the lid never really comes totally off until the picking and thats usually right around the time that the PNS stop sticking well, but it works out since the sub's flush is over anyway.. time for a new PNS lid. :smile:

fahtster


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Re: Late Casing [Re: Civ]
    #7711900 - 12/03/07 07:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

right, me too.. I think I remember seeing on some vendors site, ralph's maybe, that  his tubs' casings weren't colonized at all either and he had some really nice flushes.  this is definitely way too simple an idea to be like "I came up with this" lol I mean, how many people have forgotten to case and "late cased" (I'm just dubbing it something to make it stand out and 'cased late' just didn't seem right for some reason LOL)?  ya know?  I'm just trying to bring it to some attention and point out some reasons why it might work. :smile:

fahtster


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Edited by fahtster (12/03/07 10:45 PM)


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Re: Late Casing [Re: bryanbzl]
    #7712073 - 12/03/07 07:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

you mean like this...

   
   

   
   

 
   
   


wow, it looks pretty cool with them all together like that lol  those are different flushes.. the only cakes that were dunked and rolled were those four in that one pic of mazatapec with that little sign in it.  otherwise they were slowly hydrated by adding water to a thick verm casing over a period of like three to four days.. it's basically a slow dunk.. the roll is unneeded imo, but it's just opinion, peeps can do what they want.. I just hope they are pasteurizing the verm before they roll their clean cakes in dirty verm. :wink:  I do dunk for a second flush tho, I just omit the roll. :smile:  like I said in the first post.. this is just for the bulk subs for myself anyway.. because I do use a verm reservoir for the cakes, but as you can see, they aren't growing from the reservoir.. they are growing from where the cake and verm meet. :smile:

as for your question as to why this isn't applicable to cakes... I think it's because the 1/2 cup of water that you put into your cake recipe isn't enough to allow the cake to colonize without being gooey and throw off a pinset that is to it's top potential, so additional water is needed after the colonization has completed.  BUT with the bulk grows, you are adding the grain to substrate that is to field capacity which is more than enough to carry a tub thru the first flush and get great results. :thumbup:

fahtster

Edit: Another reason that I wanted to post these is to again show you what I was talking about with the idea of the single cake being in the big tub and why it probably wouldn't do better than a bin full of 24 cakes... they again create their own fruit environment... they all just love throwing off beautiful pinsets.. that and most of those are isolates. :wink:


Edited by fahtster (12/03/07 10:26 PM)


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Re: Late Casing [Re: fahtster]
    #7712140 - 12/03/07 07:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Cant wait to try it. Would late casing be the same as not casing but using waxpaper? Or would both be best.


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OfflineKrielow
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Re: Late Casing [Re: MotorCityMadman]
    #7712160 - 12/03/07 07:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

wow im going to have to try this on my next grow thanks for the tips!


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Re: Late Casing [Re: Nibin]
    #7712165 - 12/03/07 07:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Nibin said:
What are the substrates? I imagine this system will work well with poo or coir but not very well with plain grain, as uncased it doesn't really fruit...

What are you using?


V interesting post btw




sorry I missed this yo..  we were having a discussion over at 'topia about it and I thought it might be a good idea to just use the same principle, but just shrink it down to the small grain casing size like so...
Quote:


what if you laid out the grain and let it recolonize for a few days, then apply a thin layer of coir , about a 1/4 inch or so.. kinda of like I did with the bulk substrate  on top of the grain, then induce Pinning  conditions, light, higher O2, lower rh.. then after that knots and you see a pins, put the verm/coir  mix on top of that in another thin layer (1/4 inch or so) so that you end up with a 1/2 inch casing  on the grain, but while the coir  is at least some what colonized, the verm/coir  mix won't be.. just a smaller version than above and with the bulk changed out with coir . I guess it would be like patching the entire casing  once you see knots and a few pins. just an idea.  :smile:




I think one could probably use Hpoo/straw on the small grain casings to and do it that way or just do it like the old school "rez" effect where you sandwich the grain between (in that tek it's verm) the bulk sub, but coir is def. more accessible to people.  or do the coir "rez" effect and then late case, ya know?

fahtster


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Edited by fahtster (12/03/07 11:16 PM)


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Invisiblethedefone
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Re: Late Casing [Re: fahtster]
    #7712183 - 12/03/07 08:00 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not buying the lazy excuse. Have you seen how long your posts are? Holy crap, you're meticulous! It's good though...

I'd be willing to bet that you're right about your second flush fruits forming around the edges being a result of floating and not submerging the subs. I can also dig your reluctance to put too much effort into getting high yields from your later flushes, especially if space is at a premium or you're cycling tubs through quickly.

Good work man... Just thinking things out like you're doing here, can clear up tons of questions. Keep it coming!

Thanks!


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Re: Late Casing [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #7712200 - 12/03/07 08:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

legallyhomeless said:
Cant wait to try it. Would late casing be the same as not casing but using waxpaper? Or would both be best.




thats a good question, only one way to find out. :smile:

thanks everyone!

faht


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Edited by fahtster (12/03/07 08:05 PM)


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Re: Late Casing [Re: fahtster]
    #7712244 - 12/03/07 08:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

With my next monotub Im going to try this. I think I will cover with wax paper and inducing fruiting until knots form, late case and see what happens. Great write up btw


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Re: Late Casing [Re: fahtster]
    #7713941 - 12/04/07 05:40 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fahtster said:
DrWatson-- funny you say that, I think I actually started using the wax paper, what was it RR, a few years ago now? when HF and myself were using the greenhouses and doing grain casings... RR picked it up and I stopped using it.. which is cool (RR gave me the idea for the clone to grain jars so I guess it's even stephen hehehe)
fahtster




I don’t understand? Are you saying that you originally came up with the wax paper method?

I only ask because its commonly believed that RR was the innovator and im just trying to clarify.


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Re: Late Casing [Re: Mojo]
    #7714156 - 12/04/07 09:19 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

well.. I just started using it and he kept using it, no big deal.  if he wouldn't have kept using it, it probably would have been forgotten.  :smile:

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Re: Late Casing [Re: fahtster]
    #7714368 - 12/04/07 10:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I used a variation of this thought on my last grow..by accident really but anyhoo..
I got a shit load of pins, more than I ever got from casing but there were so many pins and 70% aborted and the fruits were small cause i think that they were all fighting for the nutes?

I tend to think that less pins that form is better cause I don't get as many aborts and the shrooms that do grow are bigger and healthier..

I like using casings and I put the tubs in the FC as soon as I see about ten or so spots colonized on the casing..

just my 2 cents


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Re: Late Casing [Re: fahtster]
    #7714415 - 12/04/07 11:07 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

So let me try to understand, when you have knots forming on your “bare” substrate, you throw the casing on and the substrate responds with additional knots and pins? Or is it just the existing ones that are growing through?

I really like the idea, while it’s possible to get beautiful flushes like yours through other methods; this one seems more fool proof.

Have you tried it with Pan Cyans? My guess is that it wouldn’t work since they like a casing layer prior to knot formation.


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Re: Late Casing [Re: fahtster]
    #7714622 - 12/04/07 12:11 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Verry good read man, and an excellent idea!!  I'm gonna give this a shot very soon! :mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2":mushroom2:

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Re: Late Casing [Re: Mojo]
    #7714850 - 12/04/07 01:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I'm using coir/verm so I'm not using any buffer, but it's probably not a bad idea.




That, to me, sounds worse! Coir is not only usually fairly acidic, but it's more nutritious to mold and fungi than peat... is it a high ration of verm to coir?

To me, this kind of goes along with Roger's crumpled wax-paper "casing" - for both methods, it's all about the microclimate next to the pinning surface more than anything. The only real difference in the two is that while they pins are growing, the wax paper becomes lifted off the surface while a casing mix will stay put.

I wonder if a bunch of finely shredded wax paper might do just as well as any casing mix for this - the only difference being that it'd be extremely hard for any contaminant to colonize wax paper (if not impossible).


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Re: Late Casing [Re: Sillicybin]
    #7714913 - 12/04/07 01:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Do you still apply the normal ammount or casing material or less... or more?


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Re: Late Casing [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #7714948 - 12/04/07 01:31 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fahtster said
the fans run 24/7.. the large light is a daylight floro that is just leaning up against the wall.. I like that it's easy to move around.




New(and old) growers take note of the constantly moving air, and type of lighting. It takes a lot of factors to get a great pinset and harvest, and often those two are overlooked. The art of growing is a lot like a jigsaw puzzle. Once you get all the pieces fitted together, it will knock your socks off.
RR


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Re: Late Casing [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7715039 - 12/04/07 01:52 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Now that I've gone through the whole cycle and know I can at least get some fruits from my labors posts like this enthrall me.

The worst part of my current fruiting grow was the pinset on some of the tupperwares, and I think trying stuff like this would be a great way to help me figure out how to get great results like you all.

:bow:


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation >> Mushroom Cultivation Archive >> Casing

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