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OfflineGrimgnar
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Very Worried - Cakes not pinning
    #7705819 - 12/02/07 10:27 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I've had some BRF/Verm cakes in a fruiting chamber for almost 2 weeks, and there's no signs of pinning at all. D'N'R'ed, perlite on the bottom, lots of fanning for FAE, and I've made sure the humidity/temp stay constant at 98-100% hum. and 75 degrees. The cakes were birthed 5 days after full visible colonization.

I took the weakest looking cake out, and dissected it, just to see if I could find anything, such as a contamination that I couldn't see from the outside. Made the first cut in half, and lo and behold, its BARELY colonized on the inside. Checked the 2nd weakest looking cake. Same thing!

Now I don't know what to do. Are the rest of the cakes just as bad? They look much healthier than the two I chopped. They have partially patched over the dry verm they were rolled into, but not very much. They all looked very healthy when I birthed them.

Why didn't those colonize the inside at all? Do I keep holding out hope, toss them, am I being too impatient? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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Offlinebryanbzl
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: Grimgnar]
    #7705833 - 12/02/07 10:36 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

by the way your describing your cake you did not give them the extra consolidation period while still in jars. now you need to wait it out and see.


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OfflineGrimgnar
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: Grimgnar]
    #7705893 - 12/02/07 11:14 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Grimgnar said:
The cakes were birthed 5 days after full visible colonization.




I had heard that this was sufficient. Is this not the case?

If these are a bust, as far as fruiting them goes, since there is no contamination, can I slice and dice the remaining cakes, isolate the best looking pieces of mycelium, and use them to colonize new jars? If so, how big of a piece of mycelium would I need?


Edited by Grimgnar (12/02/07 12:09 PM)


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OfflineBlargIAmDead
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: Grimgnar]
    #7708549 - 12/02/07 11:27 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Or you could leave them alone till they fully colonize in your FC and let them fruit like they would normally...


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OfflineGrimgnar
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: BlargIAmDead]
    #7708779 - 12/03/07 12:23 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well, it doesn't look like theres any more activity at all. Think another week would be sufficient?

I was impatient with those two cakes, but if theres still a chance they can fruit, I can wait as long as need be.


Edited by Grimgnar (12/03/07 12:26 AM)


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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: Grimgnar]
    #7709064 - 12/03/07 01:22 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Grimgnar said:
Well, it doesn't look like there's any more activity at all. Think another week would be sufficient?

I was impatient with those two cakes, but if there's still a chance they can fruit, I can wait as long as need be.




I would continue to wait.. Keep up the FAE. I fan every two hours. About 45-60 seconds at a time..:grin: In my first grow I tried rushing things and had failures. This time I am being as patient as possible.. As you can tell I look/fan every two hours. Hopefully you will see some knotting/pinning soon. But, with you dunking so early. I would probably dunk one more time to rehydrate the cake. I would wait and ask someone with more experience or just search it, but myself, I would dunk again but right after you have sufficient knotting. That's a long time with no H2O. Mushrooms are basically all water so this is vital IMO. As said try to leave the cakes in well after 100% colonization. Or you will have to just wait it out in the FC, possibly drying out the cake or introducing contams. Good luck!

:thumbup::peace:
Lonnie Edwin


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: JewelessCaesar]
    #7709348 - 12/03/07 02:38 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

EDIT: Posted a load of rubbish (se post below for actual posted info).

Ignore what I said.


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Edited by Nibin (12/03/07 05:32 AM)


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Offlinekristen
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: Nibin]
    #7709431 - 12/03/07 03:19 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Nibin said:
Do not dunk while primordia are forming or you will get a high abort rate.

I would just wait to dunk after the first flush. Give it a week with good FAE and you should start to see results




How about you play "stop posting such horse shit until you know what you're talking about?"


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: kristen]
    #7709594 - 12/03/07 05:25 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well, after you acusation of bullshit, and as I remembered being told over and over again that misting primordia would cause an increased rate of aborts (and imagined it would apply to dunking also) I decided a quick visit to the search engine was required.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6487248#6487248

RR said:
Quote:

But as hyphae said and I've seen it before too, misting directly on the pins with any force at all will cause aborts. Now, why that causes them to abort, but an overnight soak under water doesn't, I don't understand. But, it's a fact.





So go figure, I was bulshitting. But then I never have needed to dunk when primordia are forming because I have already dunked before that happened. My bad.

You can dunk no problem

PS: You sound a bit grouchy today kristen. Hangover?;)


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OfflineThe shroomy 1S
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: Grimgnar]
    #7709628 - 12/03/07 06:16 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Realistically, there are so many things that can play into action here. You have done all the right things..
Quote:

lots of fanning for FAE, and I've made sure the humidity/temp stay constant at 98-100% hum. and 75 degrees. The cakes were birthed 5 days after full visible colonization.


Then you came across something very important
Quote:

Made the first cut in half, and lo and behold, its BARELY colonized on the inside. Checked the 2nd weakest looking cake. Same thing!



You have to ask yourself why that is! Full colonization is one of the TOP PINNING TRIGGERS. Was the cake packed too tightly? Was there sufficient gas exchange? Mycelium can only reproduce and colonize as much as the O2 and C02 levels allow it to.
Quote:

Are the rest of the cakes just as bad?


If they were subjected to the same factors as the other jars...... Yes.
Quote:

Do I keep holding out hope,


I would not hold out hope. Take what you have learned and adjust. Don't try and colonize BRf cakes with what you've got. If you want to take that kind of route, get some WBS and start some jars of that! That would be my best advice to salvage what you've got.


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Offlinec0_hush
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7709658 - 12/03/07 06:58 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

My cakes have also been fully colonized since 72 hours and just last night I turned all of them upside down (most moved with a slight single tap so they definitely weren't tightly packed) and will continue to wait till the end of this week because the myc on the outside is kinda thin, I can almost see the verm+brf behind it so the middle is definitely not colonized.  I wonder if next time when I inoculate, I should drop a 0.5cc right in the middle as well..  These have been inoculated on Nov 11 and incubator's been constantly @ ~82F. I have slight yellowing on most of them so the temp might have been a little too much but I read this was ok.  I also still have foil on them BUT the inoculation holes are exposed for proper gas exchange.

I don't know what I'll do if the myc won't get thicker, I'll probably just birth them and hope for the best.  The myc seems way too thin for dunk + roll and there is some moisture in the jars as well.

Don't mean to hijack, but it's a similar situation and could be the same outcome when I finally place them in FC...


http://www.shroomery.org/forums/files/07-49/668374471-DSCF0004.jpg
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/files/07-49/668374609-DSCF0005.jpg
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/files/07-49/668374633-DSCF0006.jpg

The thinnest ones are Cambodian so it might be a strain thing but they don't look ready to me at all, they are thin on the bottom as it is (now top since upside down) and condensation dripping on them make them look even thinner...  :frown:


Edited by c0_hush (12/03/07 07:14 AM)


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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: c0_hush]
    #7709687 - 12/03/07 07:26 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well first off, I would remove that foil if they are nearing 100% colonized. Allow some gas exchange. And if you let all the nutes get eaten while in the jar your cakes will be A ok. :thumbup: The only place I inoculate all my jars is right in the center. Single hole for gas exchange, no inserting the needles 3-4 times..maybe I'm overprotective but less times entering = less chance for contams in my theory. But if you use multiple inoculating holes then I would hit in the center as well, especially if you are having slow colonization of the center. Just be patient and remove the foil and give it 5-6 days and you should notice a difference. But I just re read your post.. and the only time I saw yellow and not bright white mycelium was when I had some nasties.. Don't mean to damper, just some advice IME. Unless you are seeing mycelium piss which has a unique urine resemblence, I think it's metabolites. I hope that is what your yellowing is..

Good Luck! :peace:

JCLE :crazy2:


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Offlinec0_hush
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: JewelessCaesar]
    #7709819 - 12/03/07 09:30 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the advice. Inoculating the center as well seems like a good idea, I'll give it a shot next time. In the meantime I'll go ahead and remove the foil altogether I guess, not much to lose at this point and the yellowing is most likely myc piss as it just recently started happening and it does have a unique urine resemblance like you mentioned. I'll keep the jars incubating @ 80F till the end of the week and see if I notice any change.


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OfflineGrimgnar
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: c0_hush]
    #7717893 - 12/05/07 01:00 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I tossed em. I'm going to order some more spore syringes, and use some agar to isolate the best looking mycelium. Innoc some grain, and case that. Think I'll try a new strain, as well. Going to be much more meticulous this time.

Any reccomendations? Strains, grains, casing layers? Either way, I've got a fair bit of reading to do.


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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: Grimgnar]
    #7718005 - 12/05/07 01:38 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Good luck.. just always think sterile! B+, GT..anythings great really. Whatever you grow just make sure to be patient and follow your tek completely, do not stray away and you'll have a successful grow..Sterility is a must! I wish you all the best!

JCLE:thumbup::peace:


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OfflineChi Ro
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: JewelessCaesar]
    #7718010 - 12/05/07 01:41 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Confucius say patience is a virtue!


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OfflineGrimgnar
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: Chi Ro]
    #7718049 - 12/05/07 01:55 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yes. Thats probably the thing I most took away from this attempt here. Its a bit sad I had to can them, but it was still entertaining, and I know to be more careful and patient next time.


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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: Chi Ro]
    #7718052 - 12/05/07 01:56 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Confucius also say man who pull out to quick leave rubber. :grin:


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OfflineGrimgnar
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Re: Very Worried - Cakes not pinning [Re: JewelessCaesar]
    #7718068 - 12/05/07 02:03 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I do have to say I'm pretty pleased, and comforted by the fact that out of 12 jars, I had no contaminations, even birthed "early". From what I've read around here, early birthing is pretty risky.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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