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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: dr_gonz]
#7705516 - 12/02/07 03:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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dr_gonz said: According to christianity all "non believers" go to hell. so essentially a guy who just doesn't believe in christ but who leads a relatively normal life is going to go to the same hell and receive the same punishment as people who rape children.
yeah, i can see the fucking logic in that.
The ancient Egyptians said Hell is in the Draco constellation near the pole star, There, the hippo Taweret and her consort Set devour all souls found unworthy.

In the judgment scene of The book of going forth by day, (Egyptian Book of the Dead) Taweret and Set are combined into one soul devouring beast, Ammit, who awaits behind Thoth.

It makes sense to me that if there is an afterlife and some sort of judgment, that undesirable souls would simply be deleted rather than forced to suffer for eternity.
"I guess the Egyptians figured non-existence was punishment enough." - J.A. West
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: fivepointer]
#7705610 - 12/02/07 06:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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fivepointer said:
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dr_gonz said:
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fivepointer said:
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dr_gonz said: apparently they aren't his beliefs. they're more like ABSOLUTE TRUTH
Now you are seeing the light!
JESUS HAS SHOWN ME THE WAY!!!! Rejoice. Wow, now that I've seen the light I have so much to consider! Which flavor of christianity should I try first?!?!?!? Pentacostal? Baptist? Lutheran? Catholic?
This is so exciting!!!!! PRAISE GOD!!!!!
If He showed you the way you would know the path and which ways are false and which are true.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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shakercee
Atheistic Mystic



Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7705618 - 12/02/07 06:21 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh, there was a glitch in the timetravel program. Right now he is in the Age of Dinosaurs. So, the second coming is
-------------------- Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking. Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc. Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god." - Indian Armed Forces "Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: shakercee]
#7705623 - 12/02/07 06:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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shakercee said:

Oh, there was a glitch in the timetravel program. Right now he is in the Age of Dinosaurs. So, the second coming is
The truth is... he got so pissed that day because of the people laughing at him, that he pushed a wrong button on the time travel machine and now he's stuck in the past... What happened is that some luvin' hardcore Christians decided we should follow Jesus' example and be stuch in the past as well
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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shakercee
Atheistic Mystic



Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7705632 - 12/02/07 06:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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The truth is... he got so pissed that day because of the people laughing at him, that he pushed a wrong button on the time travel machine and now he's stuck in the past... What happened is that some luvin' hardcore Christians decided we should follow Jesus' example and be stuch in the past as well 

Lastest i heard is the that pope is not that keen to join the bandawagon..He very much loves the present age. No power if he goes to the past.
-------------------- Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking. Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc. Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god." - Indian Armed Forces "Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: shakercee]
#7705653 - 12/02/07 06:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's because child porn is more accessible these days
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7705735 - 12/02/07 07:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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cube talk
Stranger

Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 1,223
Last seen: 1 month, 12 days
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: Silversoul]
#7705755 - 12/02/07 07:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Silversoul said:
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adjust said: aren't references to hell actually talking about a real place in isreal?
i think i read that somewhere, that the actual mention of hell really means a place on earth that exists, but i could be wrong
The word "Hell" does not appear in the Bible. The word "hell" is actually derived from "Hel," the land of the dead in Norse mythology(except for those warriors who died in battle and went to Valhalla).
There are different things in the Bible which are often all conflated as one single place. What you are referring to here is Gehenna, a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where trash was burned. By Jesus' time, the Jews had conflated Gehenna with a place of suffering after death for sinners. Interestingly, the Jews did not believe it to be a place of permanent suffering and punishment, except for the worst of sinners. Rather, they saw it as a temporary place of purification where one's sins were burned away.
Another place Jesus mentions is Hades. This the land of the dead in Greek mythology(interesting that Jesus would reference pagan mythology -- apparently the mixture of Christianity with paganism goes all the way back to the beginning).
A third place often conflated with Hell is Sheol, which is basically the Jewish equivalent of Hades. Both Hades and Sheol were not originally seen as places of eternal suffering. They were simply where one's soul went when one died. I think purgatory or limbo would be better parallels for them than the fire and brimstone that is usually associated with Hell in the popular imagination.
Then, finally, there is the "Lake of Fire" referenced in the Book of Revelation. This, along with Gehenna, is where most of our imagery of Hell comes from, and only in Revelation is it treated as a place of eternal suffering.
We always tend to think of fire as bad, just a thought came to my mind this very second...
What if the fire is a reference to the glory that will shine out of us, like a fire from within.
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shakercee
Atheistic Mystic



Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: cube talk]
#7705767 - 12/02/07 08:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
We always tend to think of fire as bad, just a thought came to my mind this very second...
What if the fire is a reference to the glory that will shine out of us, like a fire from within.
Is that the reason why they burnt the witches at the stake?
-------------------- Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking. Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc. Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god." - Indian Armed Forces "Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: cube talk]
#7706433 - 12/02/07 12:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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cube talk said: We always tend to think of fire as bad, just a thought came to my mind this very second...
What if the fire is a reference to the glory that will shine out of us, like a fire from within.
Actually, in the Biblical tradition(and in pretty much every tradition) fire has a dual meaning. While being associated with the flames of Hell, fire is also associated with the light of the Holy Spirit. However, I don't think you can read the Book of Revelation and conclude that that's what the Lake of Fire refers to. Naturally, throughout human history, fire has been both a blessing and a curse.
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cube talk
Stranger

Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 1,223
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: shakercee]
#7707141 - 12/02/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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shakercee said:
Quote:
We always tend to think of fire as bad, just a thought came to my mind this very second...
What if the fire is a reference to the glory that will shine out of us, like a fire from within.
Is that the reason why they burnt the witches at the stake?
Is that the reason the cavemen used it to keep warm?
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ZShroom
Stranger


Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1,061
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: cube talk]
#7710099 - 12/03/07 09:56 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
Why is christian religion so simialar to the others before it? Watch this movie and it will explain everything about the misunderstandings of all religions. "Sun" of the father....just check it out
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Cameron
Too Many Words



Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 4,437
Loc: Canada
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: ZShroom]
#7713877 - 12/04/07 02:23 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've always wondered: if God created all human beings on the Earth, spoke with Man, and sent prophets to carry his word (which involved instructions to be followed by all men that would earn them passage into Heaven?), did he also send prophets to people outside of Europe/Asia? What of the native peoples of North America who could not possibly have been baptized or learned of Jesus Christ before European invaders brought the word of God by sword in the seventeenth century?
I guess what I'm asking is: what exactly constitutes 'righteousness'? Did the natives of early North America and every other race/region of people go to Hell because they did not follow the code set by the Bible? Did God create us in expectation that we would follow certain guidelines, and if so, why allow such a large percentage of the population to live in ignorance of said guidelines?
Those questions are aimed at knowledgeable Christians out of pure curiosity. Maybe not the right thread but what the Hell.
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dr_gonz

Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 44,654
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: dr_gonz]
#7716441 - 12/04/07 05:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cameron said: I've always wondered: if God created all human beings on the Earth, spoke with Man, and sent prophets to carry his word (which involved instructions to be followed by all men that would earn them passage into Heaven?), did he also send prophets to people outside of Europe/Asia? What of the native peoples of North America who could not possibly have been baptized or learned of Jesus Christ before European invaders brought the word of God by sword in the seventeenth century?
I guess what I'm asking is: what exactly constitutes 'righteousness'? Did the natives of early North America and every other race/region of people go to Hell because they did not follow the code set by the Bible? Did God create us in expectation that we would follow certain guidelines, and if so, why allow such a large percentage of the population to live in ignorance of said guidelines?
Those questions are aimed at knowledgeable Christians out of pure curiosity. Maybe not the right thread but what the Hell.
Yeah, watch them answer that in a rational manner....
Hey Fivepointy, 'splain it to da man!
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   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
Edited by SoY (12/04/07 05:11 PM)
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: christians and their logic [Re: Cameron]
#7716785 - 12/04/07 06:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've always wondered: if God created all human beings on the Earth, spoke with Man, and sent prophets to carry his word (which involved instructions to be followed by all men that would earn them passage into Heaven?), did he also send prophets to people outside of Europe/Asia? What of the native peoples of North America who could not possibly have been baptized or learned of Jesus Christ before European invaders brought the word of God by sword in the seventeenth century?
No prophets were sent to far reaches of the world outside of the scripture. Those outside OT Israel, or Native Americans, or millions in tribes in Africa heard no gospel ever. God never decreed that they should become saved.
I guess what I'm asking is: what exactly constitutes 'righteousness'? Did the natives of early North America and every other race/region of people go to Hell because they did not follow the code set by the Bible? Did God create us in expectation that we would follow certain guidelines, and if so, why allow such a large percentage of the population to live in ignorance of said guidelines?
Man is condemned in the first transgression of Adam by imputation and a fallen personal nature since the Fall. No amount of personal efforts at righteousness can erase the original imputed sin. Fallen man has written in his heart some recognition of right from wrong thus making him without excuse, however he is naturally ignorant of God's righteousness and requirement for perfection. The Law shows Man his inherent nature. The Law is given not so that man can become justified by keeping it, but that he can see his absolute inability to keep it, and cry out for salvation from its demands. Christ kept the Law perfectly for His people, and this perfect righteousness is imputed them, and made real to them by faith.
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