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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: BrAiN]
    #7703573 - 12/01/07 05:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 08:06 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: BrAiN]
    #7703581 - 12/01/07 05:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 08:06 PM)


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7703585 - 12/01/07 05:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Can you list anti-semitic occurances in Venezuela considering even a U.S. State Department report has said no such sentiment has any popularity there? Or is making things up an effective way to demonize people?




"The human-rights situation in Venezuela under populist president Hugo Chavez has been deteriorating for some time. But last week the proverbial canary in the coalmine died when Venezuelan police raided the Colegio Hebraica, the private Jewish school in Caracas. The raid took place in the early morning, just as students were arriving for the start of the school day.




Ostensibly, the raid was part of the investigation into the November 18 assassination by car bombing of State Prosecutor Danilo Anderson. Anderson (who was initially appointed to prosecute environmental crimes) was handling high-profile political prosecutions — including that of the plotters of the April 2002 coup attempt against Chavez. The assassins are unknown, but the Chavez, his allies, and the state-controlled media have blamed the Venezuelan opposition, Venezuelan expatriates in Miami, and various foreign forces including the Mossad. This putative Mossad connection was the excuse for the raid on the Colegio Hebraica.

This raid is only part of Chavez's steady destruction of Venezuela's civil society and democratic institutions. The Venezuelan National Assembly recently passed a new law restricting television and radio content. Officially the law is intended to protect Venezuela's children from pornography and violence, but the vaguely worded statute could easily be used to hinder the expression of political views as well. Chavez is also packing Venezuela's supreme court.

The treatment of Jewish communities has always been a crucial indicator of a government's commitment to freedom and rule of law. In the words of prominent Venezuelan journalist Carlos Blanco:

When a Jew is attacked for being such, we enter a zone of total and absolute risk for the free thinking and existence of all, Jews and non Jews alike. Do not believe the official apologies, they are part of the same set up.

(This translation is courtesy of Venezuela News and Views, a terrific blog that exemplifies how a blog can provide critical but overlooked news and intelligent, informed analysis.)

It is no coincidence that the raid occurred while Chavez was in Iran promoting bilateral trade, the Iranian-Venezuelan strategic relationship, and their shared opposition to a unipolar world (read: the United States). On this junket, Chavez also received a human-rights reward from Libya. Flush with cash from recent high oil prices, Chavez discussed major arms purchases with Russia and criticized the West for interfering with Ukraine's election. Hugo Chavez is clearly angling to become a player on the international stage.

Chavez's internal repression and international ambitions are accompanied by regional belligerence. His purchase of high-performance MiGs from Russia threatens to ignite a regional arms race. While irrelevant to Venezuela's real security concerns, Chavez may have plans for the MiGs. He has ignited dormant territorial disputes with his neighbors Columbia and Guyana. He has also funded far-left movements elsewhere in South America and given sanctuary to Columbian terrorists next door. Crucial to all of Chavez's activities is his key alliance with Fidel Castro. Chavez props up Fidel's tottering regime with oil, and Fidel sends thousands of operatives to Venezuela to help Chavez consolidate his rule.

We have a big and growing problem to our south. But Venezuela's opposition, while disappointed, is not vanquished. With a strong tradition of democratic rule and tolerance, many Venezuelans were deeply shocked by the raid on the Colegio Hebraica. Michael Rowan, a journalist with the leading paper El Universal wrote,

The fact that it was a Jewish school is lost on no one. This was an unmistakable message to the Jewish community, which has heard that loathsome message many times before. Early on, the Nazis used this tactic against the Jews to strike fear in their hearts, as it did. The whole world knows what came after that.... In the deafening silence from the government following this symbolic event, everyone in the community, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and those with mixed ethnic or religious background, must stand up to the authorities, and say with one voice: I am a Jew. We are all Jews.

It is possible that Chavez has reached too far, and the opposition — also inspired by the example of Ukraine — can be galvanized to act. To do so, they will need American help. The alternative is more Chavez, and history teaches us where that will inevitably lead.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/mannes200412140820.asp


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7703607 - 12/01/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 08:08 PM)


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7703617 - 12/01/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Five years from now Venezuela will look like Zimbabwe,
and the world will blame it all on Bush, USA, and da Jews.....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


Edited by lonestar2004 (12/01/07 05:27 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7703621 - 12/01/07 05:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 08:09 PM)


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7703651 - 12/01/07 05:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:

Five years from now Venezuela will look like Zimbabwe,




I can't wait for five more years to come (assuming the U.S. hasn't installed a puppet government in Venezuela) so that can be refuted. I also can't wait to go there & see the revolution for myself as I intend to do within the next 5 years.




just visit the Cuban REVOLUTION now...:thumbup:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7703685 - 12/01/07 05:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Are you for real (EntheogenicPeace) or is this someone like ZAPPAISGOD pretending to be a liberal socialist just to entertain me?:paranoid::grin:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7703724 - 12/01/07 05:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 08:09 PM)


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InvisibleArp
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7703753 - 12/01/07 06:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

and the world will blame it all on Bush, USA, and da Jews.....



Unfortunately I don't think people will ever learn when another country actively stage coups and work against whatever they have going on :tongue:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: BrAiN]
    #7703929 - 12/01/07 06:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Go to Los Angles or any other major city with lots of Latin immigrants. Ask any Venezuelan there what they think of Chavez. They'll give you the profile of a total facist which is part of the reason they came to the states.



Not to discount the authoritarian tendencies of Chavez, but what responses do you think you'd get if you went to Canada and asked the Americans who moved there what they think of Bush?


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7704246 - 12/01/07 08:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Raiding a Jewish school because one has strong suspicion that someone or a group of people there is plotting to/actively working to overthrow a democratically-elected government is as anti-semitic as raiding a church for the same reason is anti-Catholic.




Chavez tags everyone that disagrees with him as 'plotting to overtthrow the government'


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Offlined33p
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7704348 - 12/01/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Brief overview of Venezuelan politics...

wealthier, light-skinned people there generally hate him;

poorer, darker-skinned people generally support him.

The former outnumber the latter. Therefore, his popularity & winning two elections & a U.S.-backed recall referendum (as well as a U.S.-backed, possibly orchestrated, military coup against him) declared fair by all international observers shouldn't be too hard to understand.

What are the reasons for his popularity among the masses? Maybe it has something to do with a man who, in 1992 as a high-ranking military officer, risked his life & his freedom to lead a revolt against a hated government? Maybe it has something to do with policies which have decreased the poverty rates & extreme poverty rates, & the increase of primary care physicians from just over 1600 in the entire country to almost 20,000 today since being elected in 1998. Maybe it has something to do with rapid expansion of healthcare services to people who've never had health care before. Maybe it has something to do with using the nation's wealth to build housing projects for the homeless & those living in shacks instead of going into the bank accounts of the oligarchy as long was the case & still is the case in many other parts of Latin American. Maybe it has something to do with infant mortality having decreased by about 20%, or the increase in literacy rates.

But as superior, enlightened Americans, we know the above to be lies. When a foreign reporter goes to a neighborhood on the outskirts of Caracas & asks a random person why they support Hugo Chávez & they say, "He's the first leader we've ever had who cares about the lower classes," we know what they're really saying is, "I hate freedom & support al-Qaeda."




So he's popular with the masses whose only exposure to politics are government handouts and the state controlled media? Wonderful. A distinction he shares with such great leaders as Hitler and Aristide, among others. Sure, he has imposed unrealistic economic policies doing great harm to the country, been unquestionably obtuse and hostile in matter of foreign affairs, limited personal freedom and the legitimacy of his government, and caused there to be little to no availability of milk, sugar, and meat as well high gas prices; but hey, he gives poor people free shit and has natural resource capital to keep him afloat for now, so who cares.

The man is insane and is destroying Venezuela's economy and democratic institutions little by little. The quicker that the opposition strengthens and enlightens the unfortunately ignorant poor majority of the country, the better.

And Cuba? What a sad place. Enjoy spending your time in hotels that the locals are not allowed to set foot in.

Oh, and in case you might wonder at all, my grandfather was a Venezuelan consul, my father was best friends with Caldera's son, i have friends and family friends living in Venezuela, and for the last 2 months I have been living in the Caribbean with a Cuban professor who teaches electrical engineering in the Caribbean under Cuban orders.

Also some of you might find this interesting: the PM of Trinidad is trying to pass a bunch of constitutional reforms one of which will allow him to remain leader for life. Shortly before the elections on Nov 5, he held a public rally where they handed out red shirts, red being the color of the party. Well $200 just happened to be pined inside of every shirt. Luckily, the guys sucks as a PM and the opposition party was able to pick up more seats from the elction.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


Edited by d33p (12/01/07 09:12 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: lonestar2004]
    #7705642 - 12/02/07 06:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Are you for real (EntheogenicPeace) or is this someone like ZAPPAISGOD pretending to be a liberal socialist just to entertain me?:paranoid::grin:




Hey you, I resent that.  I would do a much more believable job parodying a liberal nutlog than EP does being one.  If it WAS me you wouldn't even have a suspicion. :cool:

Reading through this from the beginning I was somewhat willing to give Chavez a break and assume he meant intellectual descendants (it was the Romans who killed Jesus, after all).  But perhaps he is looking to scapegoat them, by spuriously blaming some part of the coup attempt on Mossad and now we have this CIA rant when there is another threat to his power grab.  I don't much give a fuck whether the Venezuelans elect Chavez for life, he's their problem if they want him, not mine or ours.  If he exceeds his boundaries, and I doubt he will, then perhaps we will crush him.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7705848 - 12/02/07 08:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think we need to butt in either. I'm actually kind of interested in seeing how far Chavez pushes the limits.

I'm waiting for him to pass legislature that requires all citizens to suck on his penis at least once a week


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: d33p]
    #7706216 - 12/02/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 08:12 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7706496 - 12/02/07 12:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If it WAS me you wouldn't even have a suspicion.



Odd, because I sometimes suspect you of secretly being a leftist trying to make the neocons look bad(and going completely over the top with it).


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: Silversoul]
    #7706582 - 12/02/07 01:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Bullshit. I routinely kick 'tard ass. As a social scientist you are too nuanced to see domination, or anything else.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7706614 - 12/02/07 01:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you for proving my point.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Chavez tries a "with us or against us" tactic [Re: Silversoul]
    #7706636 - 12/02/07 01:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You had one? I just saw gratuitous nonsense.


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