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jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 11 days
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I have had spiritual experiences myself. But Faith never became involved. I never extrapolated my experiences into full blown theologies, or connected them with an already existing one. I just took it for what it was. It wasn't evidence of anything that can be defined by a religion of man. Neither is Faith evidence for anything other than hope and a will to believe... a coping mechanism.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
Edited by jonathanseagull (12/01/07 08:05 PM)
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a_guy_named_ai
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Registered: 09/24/07
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Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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If you choose to deny something that's so evident that is your choice. There is a lot of evidence that goes along with it that can be shown in the real world also, that helps to guide one Spiritually. But I know, and also a lot of other people are convicted of the existence of God.
You're not getting it. Faith IS a spiritual experience. It's not just simple belief. It is Spiritual sense and perception. Will you consider that there's more beyond the flesh? I think not to is rather foolish, especially considering all the evidence there is to the contrary.
Edited by jonathan_206 (12/01/07 10:24 PM)
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jonathanseagull
Cool!


Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 993
Last seen: 10 years, 11 days
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It appears as denial to you because it is evident to you. It is not evident to me. The experience was evident. The rest is wherever you choose to take it.
And of course, I not only consider, but believe there is more than flesh. There is a transcendence. But I disagree there is any evidence for others other than your own subjective experience. So, while you may have tons of evidence to the contrary, others may have no evidence to the contrary. They may have evidence OF the contrary.
That is the nature of faith. Subjective reasoning. A hope that the experience is some sign of the reality of what you are hoping for. I wouldn't faith is a spiritual experience. I would say it is a longing for a spiritual experience. But I wouldn't push that definition on you. That's mine, and yours is yours. You not sharing my view isn't a threat to my existence, because I don't identify with a belief system. I identify with experience. And nobody can deny me my own experiences, just as I cannot deny yours. But I cannot share them, either.
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Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.
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a_guy_named_ai
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Registered: 09/24/07
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Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Quote:
But I disagree there is any evidence for others other than your own subjective experience.
First of all, if your experience is subjective then why are you stating objective statements about my belief and experience?
We are all human. And we all have to face reality. It cannot be avoided. The evidence in the outside world tells us we all have minds reason and human emotion. There is much evidence to support that we have a common perception. It is how we communicate thoughts and feelings to others. And in practice it works and we can sympathize with others.
I think you overlooked another statement I made. I said that there are only 2 ways to be sure of what you know of what you perceive in the natural world. One is to know everything. The other is to have spiritual comprehension of God's nature. Since God is eternal we can trust that he is the end all and standard by which we determine all things. And we can trust what he shows us because he is all knowing and all wise.
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