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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury
#7698372 - 11/30/07 11:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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ScienceDaily (Nov. 30, 2007) — What do suffering a traumatic brain injury and using club drugs have in common? University of Florida researchers say both may trigger a similar chemical chain reaction in the brain, leading to cell death, memory loss and potentially irreversible brain damage.
A series of studies at UF over the past five years has shown using the popular club drug Ecstasy, also called MDMA, and other forms of methamphetamine lead to the same type of brain changes, cell loss and protein fluctuations in the brain that occur after a person endures a sharp blow to the head, according to recentl findings.
"Using methamphetamine is like inflicting a traumatic brain injury on yourself," said Firas Kobeissy, a postdoctoral associate in the College of Medicine department of psychiatry. "We found that a lot of brain cells are being injured by these drugs. That's alarming to society now. People don't seem to take club drugs as seriously as drugs such as heroin or cocaine."
Working with UF researchers Dr. Mark Gold, chief of the division of addiction medicine at UF's McKnight Brain Institute and one of the country's leading experts on addiction medicine, and Kevin Wang, director of the UF Center for Neuroproteomics and Biomarkers Research, Kobeissy compared what happened in the brains of rats given large doses of methamphetamine with what happened to those that had suffered a traumatic brain injury.
The group's research has already shown how traumatic brain injury affects brain cells in rats. They found similar damage in the rats exposed to methamphetamine. In the brain, club drugs set off a chain of events that injures brain cells. The drugs seem to damage certain proteins in the brain, which causes protein levels to fluctuate. When proteins are damaged, brain cells could die. In addition, as some proteins change under the influence of methamphetamine, they also begin to cause inflammation in the brain, which can be deadly, Kobeissy said.
Kobeissy and other researchers in Gold's lab are using novel protein analysis methods to understand how drug abuse alters the brain. Looking specifically at proteins in the rat cortex, UF researchers discovered that about 12 percent of the proteins in this region of the brain showed the same kinds of changes after either methamphetamine use or traumatic brain injury. There are about 30,000 proteins in the brain so such a significant parallel indicates that a similar mechanism is at work after both traumatic brain injury and methamphetamine abuse, Kobeissy said.
"Sometimes people go to the clubs and take three tablets of Ecstasy or speed," Kobeissy said. "That may be a toxic dose for them. Toxic effects can be seen for methamphetamine, Ecstasy and traumatic injury in different areas of the brain."
About 1.3 million people over the age of 12 reported using methamphetamine in the previous month, according to the 2006 National Survey on Drug Use and Health. In 2004, more than 12 million Americans reported having tried the drug, the survey's findings show.
People often think the effects of drugs of abuse wear off in the body the same way common medications do, but that may not be the case, Gold said.
"These data and the previous four years of data suggest some drugs, especially methamphetamine, cause changes that are not readily reversible," Gold said. "Future research is necessary for us to determine when or if methamphetamine-related brain changes reverse themselves."
Gold and Dennis Steindler, director of UF's McKnight Brain Institute and an expert on stem cells, are planning studies to find out if stem cells can be applied to repair drug-related brain damage.
UF researchers are also trying to uncover all the various ways drugs damage and kill brain cells. During their protein analysis, researchers discovered that oxidation was damaging some proteins, throwing the molecules chemically off balance.
"When proteins are oxidized they are not functional," Kobeissy said. "When proteins are not working, the cell cannot function."
Neurologist Dr. Jean Lud Cadet, chief of the molecular neuropsychiatry branch of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, said analyzing proteins is important to understanding how drugs such as methamphetamine affect the brain.
"I think saying the results of methamphetamine abuse are comparable to the results of a traumatic brain injury is a new idea," Cadet said. "I agree with (the findings). Our own work shows that methamphetamine is pretty toxic to the brains of animals. In humans, imaging studies of patients who use methamphetamine chronically show abnormalities in the brain.
"Abuse of methamphetamine is very dangerous."
This research was presented at a Society for Neuroscience conference held recently in San Diego.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071129121127.htm
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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truffleupagus


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 3,103
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: elbisivni]
#7698652 - 11/30/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Meth is a club drug?
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confusion
ProfessionalNovice



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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: truffleupagus]
#7698781 - 11/30/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Meth is dangerous? Wow, this is news to me...
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Cow Shit
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: confusion]
#7698810 - 11/30/07 12:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I wonder if there is a difference between amp and methamp?
-------------------- "Think for yourself and question authority."
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: elbisivni]
#7699021 - 11/30/07 01:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
elbisivni said:
A series of studies at UF over the past five years has shown using the popular club drug Ecstasy, also called MDMA, and other forms of methamphetamine lead to the same type of brain changes,
So MDMA is meth??? Essentially what they have done is made a claim about the "club drug" Ecstacy and then talked entirely about damage as result of methamphetamine, a completely different drug on the clompletely erroneous claim that they essentially are the same substance. They work in very different ways, have vastly different effects, doses, durations and toxicity and we are supposed to think that what is true for meth is also true for MDMA?
They had no data at all on MDMA. Why? Because the current research shows that only long term heavy users display any brain abnormalities or memory problems.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
Edited by Divided_Sky (11/30/07 01:39 PM)
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skidog
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Divided_Sky]
#7699124 - 11/30/07 01:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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exactly what i was thinking divided_sky, extasy was mentioned twice in the article, once in your quote, and once saying ppl may take three in a club. you dont need scientists to tell you meth causes brain, jesus, idiots, complete misinformation
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nepalnt21
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Divided_Sky]
#7699289 - 11/30/07 02:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Divided_Sky said:
So MDMA is meth??? Essentially what they have done is made a claim about the "club drug" Ecstacy and then talked entirely about damage as result of methamphetamine, a completely different drug on the clompletely erroneous claim that they essentially are the same substance. They work in very different ways, have vastly different effects, doses, durations and toxicity and we are supposed to think that what is true for meth is also true for MDMA?
They had no data at all on MDMA. Why? Because the current research shows that only long term heavy users display any brain abnormalities or memory problems.
well ecstasy, a lot of times, contains other things besides MDMA (methelenedioxymethamphetamine), sometimes methamphetamine. thats probably along the lines they are thinking. its still completely unscientific and should probably be disregarded by EVERYONE.
Edited by nepalnt21 (11/30/07 02:25 PM)
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F1234K
Wizard Of Tryptamines



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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: nepalnt21]
#7699496 - 11/30/07 03:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Amphetamines and A phetamine are way different.
Meth is bad...well done scientists. You are amazing.
But yeah as far as MDMA goes, pure is fairly safe for your brain its the pressed pills where you take risks at haveing mdma/speed or now a days mdma/meth.
But the pills with meth most people wont even notice the difference from other pressed pills.
-------------------- Im Not Living, Im Just Killing Time
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Noviseer
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: elbisivni]
#7700337 - 11/30/07 06:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
elbisivni said: ScienceDaily (Nov. 30, 2007) Ecstasy, also called MDMA, and other forms of methamphetamine
MDMA is not a form of methamphetamine. That's just VERY basic fact checking. Cmon. This is an article about pharmacology, ya gotta get the basic distinctions right. Huge inaccuracy, right off the bat.
Quote:
elbisivni said: People often think the effects of drugs of abuse wear off in the body the same way common medications do, but that may not be the case, Gold said[/url]
 Desoxyn: Methamphetamine hydrochloride tablets
-------------------- _______________________________________________________________ namaste said: no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped _________________________________________________________________
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confusion
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Noviseer]
#7700373 - 11/30/07 06:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Desoxyn is used to treat addicts, thus it does not apply under a 'common medication'.
The point the doctor was trying to make was that MDMA cut with Meth is dangerous, because generally it can be assumed that more people will use MDMA infrequently and not meth in a more pure form. It's a study done to deter drug users, and obviously has a few obvious problems. They are making a connection between the danger of party drugs without the full analysis of all the substances in MDMA and informing the public once again that Meth is bad. No new news here.
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Eraserhead
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: confusion]
#7700481 - 11/30/07 07:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Desoxyn is also used on little children with developing brains to treat Parental/Supervisor Attention-giving deficit disorder to make them "better" behaved, instead of giving the child the attention he/she needs. Drugs.com-Desoxyn
Quote:
Desoxyn is used for:
Treating attention deficit disorders with hyperactivity in children. It is also used on short-term basis (ie, a few weeks) in combination with other treatments to treat obesity. Desoxyn may also be used for other conditions as determined by your doctor.
Desoxyn is a central nervous system stimulant. The exact way it works is unknown. It controls the release of certain chemicals in the brain that affect mood, behavior, and appetite.
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Robo
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Eraserhead]
#7700745 - 11/30/07 08:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Getting a child hooked on methamphetemine at a young age is messed up. Great parenting skills, we can't handle our kid so let's just drug them up. The pharmaceutical industry is evil.
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F1234K
Wizard Of Tryptamines



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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Robo]
#7701161 - 11/30/07 10:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im going to let my kids play as rough as they want. Fuck all this....safe children druged children shit. No wonder kids are getting more and more fucked.
-------------------- Im Not Living, Im Just Killing Time
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Cow Shit]
#7701487 - 12/01/07 12:14 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cow Shit said: I wonder if there is a difference between amp and methamp?
Well good sir I dunno if that was sarcasm, but from personal experience amphetamine will only do so much to keep you up, but meth will keep you going for days with no problem.
I was one of those ADD kids and they got me on that classic shit, Ritalin! Does anyone know if a side effect is hallucinations because both me and my cousin had some when we were younger on that stuff. I think he's actually burnt out now because his parents never took him off the stuff and I got off shortly after the switch to Adderall, which by the way fucked up my ability to enjoy coke.
And if its true that E can cause similar effects on the brain to a traumatic accident, Mother of God, I must be a zombie. Between July and December of '05 I did more hits of E than I can count on a daily basis. I'm not saying it was harmless, but I view this article as more scare tactics to further pharmaceutical industries war on drugs they don't profit from.
Me and my friends did a lot of shit and I can defiantly feel the toll thats been taken on my brain and body from spending to much time in the sun (that can be a literal analogy for one of my friends and the first time he did mushrooms. 2nd degree burns.) A lot of us are very lucky to still be walking and breathing, myself especially.
Sometimes I can't speak properly and I'll fumble my words or I'll draw long blanks for no reason and for brief moments forget the meanings of certain things. But I really doubt that these effects are irreversible.
But as fried as I may be, it didn't take me five years to figure out that ice was bad. Took me about 6 months, then 3, then 5 again. So from my study of drugs I can concludify beyond any doubt that I am smarter than these scientists. Righteous
-------------------- I'm done trying to be "right." I want the exchange of ideas to be the currency of my economy. If you have something I can use, great. I'll try it out. If you think my methods are shit, great. Don't use it. We all want yields.
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: F1234K]
#7701490 - 12/01/07 12:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I believe they also prescribe it for severe narcolepsy (kinda makes sense).
This whole thing reminds me of the old Ricaurte Meth switcharoo. NIDA funded researcher George Ricaurte published a study that claimed one dose of ecstacy destroyed 80% of dopamine receptors. Everybody was like "Oh my God what a horrible dangerous drug! Thank God it's illegal!" well turns out that he had "accidentally" switched bottles and used methamphetamines instead, and though he claimed it was a normal dose of MDMA it was strong enough to kill 20% of his primate test subjects.
The irony is meth is considered safe enough on your brain to be a LEGAL schedule II prescription drug while MDMA, a far less toxic and damaging drug is still a completely criminal substance in Schedule I, on the grounds that it is to harmful to the brain. According to US drug laws MDMA is considered to be more addictive is and physically harmful than meth is but all data shows the exact opposite.
It is funny to think we give people hydrocodone because apparently marijuana is too addictive and dangerous. Oxycontin is a Schedule III drug with supposed lower addiction and abuse potential than Meth in Schedule II and MDMA, pot and mushrooms in Schedule I. Which aren't addictive.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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Ego Death
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Divided_Sky]
#7701640 - 12/01/07 01:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Alcohol kills brain cells too.
Cigs cause cancer.
Anything in excess can have seriouse negative effects. I thought everyone knew that anyway? I don't think people are taking drugs and thinking "my drug is completely safe".
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Ego Death]
#7701808 - 12/01/07 04:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hell no dude! That was kinda the beauty of it at the time. My life was so shitty that I was willing to trade whatever damage I did to myself so that the clouds would have a sudden silver lining, if only for a few hours or day. And the thought of ODing had a bent appeal to it as well, 'at least the pain will stop now.' The problem that I think 70% of this country if not more (lowballin it) has is that they believe drug users/addicts to be criminals, without realizing that with prohibition comes the crime element of the drugs. And they don't understand the nature of addiction so they believe addicts to be evil soulless beasts. They want these people filling up the jails because that will make the schools safer somehow. Addicts are not criminals, but sick, who will commit crimes to feed their addiction. Phillip K. Dick wrote in a Scanner Darkly: "....if you were a diabetic and you didn't have the money for a hit of insulin, would you steal the money? Or just die?" Thats the nature of the addiction. Feeling like without it you are just gonna die. While it may not be true, the psychological and chemical dependence is enough to make you really believe it is. And you'll do anything to get that next hit of.... whatever. In the afterword Dick goes on to mention his friends who didn't get help and suffered permanent crippling debilitating damage or death. He also goes on to mention that misuse of a drug is not a disease. I agree with that but I believe left unchecked it can very easily become a disease. Anyway bringing it back to the topic at hand, this is just more paranoia, ignorance, stupid irrational fear, and apparently state employees with nothing better to do than making mountains outta molehills. (I always wanted to use that one) Candy is not going to be the collapse that causes the youth to turn to drugs. Its gonna be all the lies and misinformation like this crap.
And as for that cop whose daughter died from slamming H. Blame your daughter for starting, blame yourself for not doing more, blame the dealer for selling her the first hit, blame the one who sold her the last. But if you blame the drug you can't win. Cause the drug is there and it doesn't feel or change. Oh yeah and blame God if you really don't want to take any real responsibility
-------------------- I'm done trying to be "right." I want the exchange of ideas to be the currency of my economy. If you have something I can use, great. I'll try it out. If you think my methods are shit, great. Don't use it. We all want yields.
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Cow Shit
Stranger



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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#7702240 - 12/01/07 10:16 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ZeroBoyWD said:
Quote:
Cow Shit said: I wonder if there is a difference between amp and methamp?
Well good sir I dunno if that was sarcasm, but from personal experience amphetamine will only do so much to keep you up, but meth will keep you going for days with no problem.
No, it was not sarcasm, but I was not comparing the two that way. I was asking what is difference in brain damage between amp and methamp.
-------------------- "Think for yourself and question authority."
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Noviseer
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: confusion]
#7702490 - 12/01/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
confusion said: Desoxyn is used to treat addicts, thus it does not apply under a 'common medication'.
Wrong, Desoxyn is used for ADD, its a stronger alternative to adderall if adderall is ineffective. There are many many children taking methamphetamine on a daily basis under the supervision of a doctor. Its also used for narcolepsy. You would NEVER give a meth addict a prescription for meth! Maybe you're confusing meth with methadone. Opiate addicts are prescribed opiates to help wean or maintain, due to the intense physiological effects of opiate withdrawal. Amp addicts, on the other hand, are treated with benzos and SSRIs, but NEVER EVER would you give a speed freak speed to help them quit.
Quote:
confusion said: The point the doctor was trying to make was that MDMA cut with Meth is dangerous, because generally it can be assumed that more people will use MDMA infrequently and not meth in a more pure form.
Right, but I wasn't taking issue with what the doctor said, but rather how the article was written, specifically: "MDMA, and other forms of methamphetamine." The very thesis of the article is completely wrong and misleading. The way journalists blend drugs together is incredibly damaging to our cognitive liberty rights. "salvia causes effects like LSD" is another example, or simply "Drugs are bad." I think journalists have a responsibility to at least tell us WHICH drugs are bad, and WHY. And hell, if they talk about bad drugs being bad, they ought to talk about good drugs being good, e.g. LSD for alcoholism, MDMA for psychotherapy, Psilocybin for "death acceptance" in terminal patients, etc.
-------------------- _______________________________________________________________ namaste said: no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped _________________________________________________________________
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Noviseer]
#7702681 - 12/01/07 12:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I posted a comment on Science Daily's site that there was a huge mistake in their article.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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FecalDildo
Fat LadiesBingo.


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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Noviseer]
#7708269 - 12/02/07 08:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Noviseer said:
MDMA is not a form of methamphetamine.
You're joking right? What does the MA in MDMA stand for???
You're a regular genius.
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F1234K
Wizard Of Tryptamines



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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: FecalDildo]
#7708781 - 12/02/07 10:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FecalDildo said:
Quote:
Noviseer said:
MDMA is not a form of methamphetamine.
You're joking right? What does the MA in MDMA stand for???
You're a regular genius.
methylenedioxymethamphetamine is a mouthfull. He probably just forgot
-------------------- Im Not Living, Im Just Killing Time
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Divided_Sky
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: F1234K]
#7708895 - 12/02/07 10:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is a completely different substance with differant effects. Just because it has methamphetamine in the name doesn't mean that MDMA IS a form of meth. MDMA has as much in common with Mescaline and Sudafed.
It's like saying sulfer-dioxide is a form of carbon-dioxide becase they share a few of the same molecules.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Divided_Sky]
#7708929 - 12/02/07 10:52 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ask Dr. Shulgin Online
ARCHIVE: February 15, 2001
MDMA versus Methamphetamine
Dear Dr. Shulgin:
Is MDMA the same as methamphetamine? Is it a type of methamphetamine?
--Michael
Dear Michael:
MDMA is totally different from methamphetamine. It is a compound that is build upon the basic carbon skeleton of methamphetamine (this is the "MA" in the code name), but there has been added to the structure two additional oxygen atoms and another carbon atom. This is the methylenedioxy ring, and this is the "MD" in the name.
The prototypic nucleus for these, and many other structurally related compounds, is the term "amphetamine." This word has three entirely separate meanings, depending on who is defining it.
To the law enforcement crowd, "amphetamines" are most of the drugs that are entered in the Controlled Substances Act under the heading "stimulants," regardless of their structure or pharmacology.
To the pharmacologists, "amphetamines" are a class of compounds that act on the central nervous system to cause eye-dilation, increased wakefulness and loss of appetite.
To the chemist, "amphetamines" are chemicals that contain the carbon skeleton of alpha-methyl-beta-phenethylamine.
-- Dr. Shulgin
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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DadeMurphy
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Divided_Sky]
#7709160 - 12/02/07 11:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Really, I wish people could get this through their heads...the presence of some substructure in a molecule does not speak in any easily predictable way to the properties of a more complex molecule.
Methamphetamine and MDMA are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CHEMICALS, with different physical, chemical and pharmacological properties (and therefore different toxicities).
Now, SAR studies can outline the reasons why adding, removing, or modifying various chemical moieties leads to modified activity but that is outside the scope of this discussion. The point is that observations made about methamphetamine do not generalize to MDMA.
Think of it this way, all of the phenethylamines and tryptamines (MDMA, speed, DMT, psilocybin, mescaline...and on and on...) contain a benzene substructure. Does that mean they are all carcinogenic solvents like benzene? Absolutely not!
So all you people out there...stop pointing out the "methamphetamine" part of the name "methylenedioxymethamphetamine" as if that says something about MDMA's effects/risks/toxicities.
Edit: Sorry if I'm just reiterating what others have said but I've been noticing alot of posts like that lately and it is sort of a pet peeve I guess.
-------------------- --------------------------------------------------
Edited by DadeMurphy (12/02/07 11:49 PM)
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Robo
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Divided_Sky]
#7710633 - 12/03/07 12:17 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
It is a completely different substance with differant effects.
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FecalDildo
Fat LadiesBingo.


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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: DadeMurphy]
#7712050 - 12/03/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You can say what you want but that methamphetamine structure is still there at the heart of MDMA so they are not two completely different things. I'm not saying they act the same way or have the same effects but you cant have MDMA without the methamphetamine structure.
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DadeMurphy
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: FecalDildo]
#7712502 - 12/03/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You're just talking semantics. What's relevant is that statements/claims about methamphetamine do not as a rule generalize to MDMA.
-------------------- --------------------------------------------------
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Robo
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: FecalDildo]
#7712507 - 12/03/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sure it has the MA part, but it also has the MD. Totally different molecule.
Think table salt.
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Seuss
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: FecalDildo]
#7714053 - 12/04/07 05:52 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
You can say what you want but that methamphetamine structure is still there at the heart of MDMA so they are not two completely different things.
It depends upon how you look at it. Using clothing as an example, it is obvious that a cotton hat and cotton jeans are two very different bits of clothing even though both are made from cotton. What really matters is the context. If we are talking about raw materials, then yes, a cotton hat and cotton jeans are more or less the same. If we are talking about the effects of wearing the clothing, then a cotton hat is completely different than cotton jeans.
In the case of drugs, in the context of the research, they are claiming that the drugs are more or less the same because they have a few structural features in common, but they are ignoring that the drugs are completely different as far as the human body is concerned.
Another example is ephedrine versus pseudo-ephedrine. They are completely identical to one another except for the direction of one chemical bond, yet their effects on the human body is very different. The difference between methamphetamine and methylenedioxymethamphetamine is much larger than the direction of a single chemical bond. To consider these two drugs the same demonstrates a gross lack of understanding basic chemistry, or an attempt to mislead people that haven't studied chemistry.
Pseudo-ephedrine has a closer structure to methamphetamine than MDMA (methylenedioxymethamphetamine), yet you don't hear people making a fuss over cold medicine (other than restricting it because it is easy to turn it into meth).
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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MrKite1
Cosmo

Registered: 03/02/04
Posts: 1,384
Loc: AK
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: Noviseer]
#7714131 - 12/04/07 07:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You would NEVER give a meth addict a prescription for meth! Maybe you're confusing meth with methadone. Opiate addicts are prescribed opiates to help wean or maintain, due to the intense physiological effects of opiate withdrawal. Amp addicts, on the other hand, are treated with benzos and SSRIs, but NEVER EVER would you give a speed freak speed to help them quit.
I've heard of some addiction specialists giving methamphetamine addicts prescription methamphetamine maintenance therapy.
-------------------- When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: MrKite1]
#7717914 - 12/04/07 11:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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> I've heard of some addiction specialists giving methamphetamine addicts prescription methamphetamine maintenance therapy.
Sounds like a good idea to me, take the criminal element out of it.
Modafinil has been said to help meth addicts.
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



Registered: 11/21/07
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: MrKite1]
#7718906 - 12/05/07 09:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MrKite1 said:
Quote:
You would NEVER give a meth addict a prescription for meth! Maybe you're confusing meth with methadone. Opiate addicts are prescribed opiates to help wean or maintain, due to the intense physiological effects of opiate withdrawal. Amp addicts, on the other hand, are treated with benzos and SSRIs, but NEVER EVER would you give a speed freak speed to help them quit.
I've heard of some addiction specialists giving methamphetamine addicts prescription methamphetamine maintenance therapy.
Um.... I can't speak for other meth addicts, but for me, I know for a fact that it wouldn't work. Thats the same as trying to ween yourself off of it. And if you have a whole bottle of it......
-------------------- I'm done trying to be "right." I want the exchange of ideas to be the currency of my economy. If you have something I can use, great. I'll try it out. If you think my methods are shit, great. Don't use it. We all want yields.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
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Re: Club Drugs Inflict Damage Similar To Traumatic Brain Injury [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#7725904 - 12/06/07 07:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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This article is based on junk science or taken way out of context.
Dumping a pile of meth and/or MDMA on a petri full of cells and then microarraying them on a gene chip really has nothing whatsoever to do with traumatic brain injury.
They can't even seem to tell the difference between meth and MDMA. And perhaps the biggest flaw in the articles reasoning is the actual traumatic brain injury! With drugs there is no big hole in your head or mashed brains. Just because some genes are regulated in the same way really has no practical bearing on the issue.
They could have just as easily said that MDMA activates brain repair mechanisms in the same way as a traumatic brain injury. That conclusion is more valid than theirs and bears more resemblance to the actual science done.
What they're really looking at is repair mechanisms, injury response, and gene regulation. But they are trying to spin it like inflammation and repair from an injury is as bad as the injury itself which makes no sense at all.
They are doing the same thing that they've already tried to demonize MDMA. First they (NIDA) tried to say X was bad because near lethal dosages in primates caused some neuronal death. When that didn't fly they dropped to the molecular level and tried to claim that certain receptors were destroyed by MDMA. Then they tried PET scans on long-term polydrug users. Now they're dropping all the way down to gene regulation to try and claim danger.
If they really wanted to find the answer it's simple enough to do a real study and try to relate a specific drug to a specific impairment. They haven't done that.
The best they've come up with is showing very minor impairment on complex tests using heavy, long-term, polydrug users. And that's still junk science! It doesn't take a large government grant to figure out that a mental reject that uses every drug they can get their hands on and uses as much of it as often as they can is going to have some mental impairment, that's just common sense. Just the mental impairment caused from vegging out in altered states for a majority of your life is enough to account for their results, with or without MDMD being a factor.
-FF
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