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Invisibleblood4blood
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
i think my grains are drying out (pics)
    #7693639 - 11/29/07 04:29 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i shook them on the 27th and they are not recovering very well. they look dry. any ideas???? is this bad?







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OfflineSmellyMushroom
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Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: blood4blood]
    #7693644 - 11/29/07 04:34 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

They don't look bad. I see myc at the bottom, let it grow and see.
The water is absorbed by the grains, and stays inside of it. Jsut wait and see!


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OfflineGroomies
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Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: SmellyMushroom]
    #7693648 - 11/29/07 04:39 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

did your grains turn dark brown or black?


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OfflinePr0_X
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Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: Groomies]
    #7694031 - 11/29/07 08:49 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Your grain looks fine to me, slightly on the dry side but hey that's how I prep mine too, colonizes faster...

If that's the amount of mycelium in your jar by day 27 of a multispore innoc there is defiantly something up.

Here's a pic of what I consider perfect rye.



and here's a pic of some rye less then 20 days into incubation (these however were done by MS innoc to G2G, left being the grain master, middle is three days old, right is 6 (since inital growth) )



I'd start over man.


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Invisibleimpeachme2
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Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: Pr0_X]
    #7694364 - 11/29/07 10:46 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

If it's drying rapidly, it may be your lid. What are you using?


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Invisibleblood4blood
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: Pr0_X]
    #7694865 - 11/29/07 01:30 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pr0_X said:
Your grain looks fine to me, slightly on the dry side but hey that's how I prep mine too, colonizes faster...

If that's the amount of mycelium in your jar by day 27 of a multispore innoc there is defiantly something up.

Here's a pic of what I consider perfect rye.



and here's a pic of some rye less then 20 days into incubation (these however were done by MS innoc to G2G, left being the grain master, middle is three days old, right is 6 (since inital growth) )



I'd start over man.






no i shook them on the 27th of november. it hasnt been 27 days. i inoculated these jars on the 21st so its been 8 or 9 days


and for lids its just a synthetic filter disk with a dab of silocone in the middle for a self healing innoc port.

last time i did grains i had the metal lid down first with 4 small holes punched in it (for innoculating) then i had the filter disk screwed over the top of that with the metal band and they didnt seem to look dry maybe the tops a little bit but that was it.

any suggestions? can the grains be too dry?

i gave them a 24 hour soak

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Offlineurayasan
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Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: blood4blood]
    #7694928 - 11/29/07 01:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

blood4blood said:
no i shook them on the 27th of november. it hasnt been 27 days. i inoculated these jars on the 21st so its been 8 or 9 days



Was this by spore or grain to grain? If by spore, what percentage was colonized when you shook them, why did you shake? If you soaked 24 hours, there should be no way for the grains to have dried out enough to stall growth in this short of time, even if they were quite on the dry side.

In the case of spore inoculation, day 6 or 7 for me is just when the mycelium begins to take hold, I've never shaken at that time and always wait for a resonable portion to be colonized before shaking to finish the rest off. If there was only a small portion of grain colonized at that time, then what you are seeing seems expected. But maybe you can elaborate.

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Invisibleblood4blood
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Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: urayasan]
    #7697638 - 11/30/07 04:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

the reason why i shook was because there was absoulutly no growth at the top 2/3 of the jar so i gave it a shake, now they seem to be stalled...

if they dont go anywhere in a couple of days i think im going to start over this time kepping the metal lid with the four holes in it on and the filter disk screwed over that. as stATed above last time i did grains thats how i did them and it seemed to work out great.

is it possible just haveing the filter disk on is letting the grains dry out to fast?

what do you guys think is causing them to stall?

thanks for the help...

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Offlinekocos
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Registered: 11/13/07
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Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: blood4blood]
    #7697644 - 11/30/07 05:12 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

From ur description sounds like bacterial contamination. Take a wiff before you toss it.

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Invisibleblood4blood
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Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: kocos]
    #7697662 - 11/30/07 05:31 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

wouldnt contamination be a different color than white??

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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4,613
Loc: UK
Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: kocos]
    #7697664 - 11/30/07 05:34 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

>is it possible just haveing the filter disk on is letting the grains dry out to fast?

seems highly likely, seeing as you only need a 4-5 mm micopore-tape covered hole to provide for adequate GE. i don't know from experience if they can be saved, but it may be posible. try some non-porous type tape and cover all but ~5mm of the filter.
you shouldn't shake untill they are 25-30% colonized.
use the metal lid next time.
if it were bacterial you would definately smell it.

Edited by deucedbi9 (11/30/07 05:36 AM)

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Offlinekocos
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Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: blood4blood]
    #7697666 - 11/30/07 05:39 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blood4blood said:
wouldnt contamination be a different color than white??




Unfortunatly there are few bacteria you will see with naked eyes, one of them is wetspot, which creates a slimy coating on the kernels. If your jars dont recover within a week or so there is deff somthing bad going on in there. Smelling it will tell you immediatly if its contaminated with bacteria, very foul, sour odor usually.

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Invisibleblood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: kocos]
    #7697675 - 11/30/07 05:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

thanks guys very helpful.... ill give the slowest looking one a smell in a little bit when i wake up.

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Offlineurayasan
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Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: blood4blood]
    #7697677 - 11/30/07 05:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Ah, I missed the fact that you are using only a filter disc for the lid. In that case I guess I would be more open to the possibility of them drying out, definitely you should always have a metal lid buffering the gas exchange. Making another batch is probably the best idea, if you keep these jars around though I would suggest promptly making tinfoil "lids" for them, just wrap them around the top like you would for pressure cooking, and poke a couple holes for the usual breathing room.

I doubt it's a bacterial issue, at least in my experience the only time bacteria has ever snuck in for me was when jars leaked during pressure cooking, resulting in waterlogged grain. Most bacterial problems arise in wet, rather than dry conditions I think.

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Invisibleblood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: blood4blood]
    #7697679 - 11/30/07 05:59 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

they smell like earthy grains.

so should i let them sit for awhile and see what happens???


im gonna tape the top with some non-porus tape like deucedbi9 suggested until there is only a small square left.. and then cover the top with foil.

Edited by blood4blood (11/30/07 06:16 AM)

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InvisibleJewelessCaesar
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Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: blood4blood]
    #7697691 - 11/30/07 06:12 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I would keep them around if there is no sign of contams(pungent smell). Hope it all works out for you! Good luck, Lonnie Edwin:peace::mushroom2:


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Offlinekocos
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Registered: 11/13/07
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Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: blood4blood]
    #7697771 - 11/30/07 07:10 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

True dry conditions dont normally favor bacterial contamination. However the top third of the jar not colonising, and then not colonising at all after a shake doesnt sound good. Even if the grain was too dry, the mycelium would recover and send out whispy strands, or show some signs of growth. Imo it sounds like during the shake bacteria might have been distrubuted througout the jar making it impossible for the myc to recover. Just a guess may very well be wrong.

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Offlinehosedragger
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Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: kocos]
    #7697784 - 11/30/07 07:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I used only a tyvek filter for one batch and ran into the same problems...way too much moisture was lost from the jars.
The holes I use now (the rare time I use jars) are only about 1/16" (3 holes in the lid) and then covered in tyvek

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: hosedragger]
    #7697953 - 11/30/07 08:33 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You need to use the lid under the disk. If you only use a filter disk, the grains will dry out before full colonization.
RR


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Invisibleblood4blood
Calmer Than You Are


Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6,029
Loc: The Valley
Re: i think my grains are drying out (pics) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7697992 - 11/30/07 08:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

hey thanks a million guys this was great help, much appreciated.

im going to see if they recover with the tape and foil on them (since they dont stink) and from now on its lids and tyvek.

thanks again

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