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InvisibleConservationist
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Society hates smart people
    #7697229 - 11/29/07 11:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Western society is not set up to nurture intelligent children and adults, the way it dotes over athletes and sports figures, especially the outstanding ones. While we have the odd notable personality such as Albert Einstein, we also have many extremely intelligent people working in occupations that are considered among the lowliest, as may be attested by a review of the membership lists of Mensa (the club for the top two percent on intelligence scales).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8778/Why-Intelligent-People-Tend-To-Be-Unhappy

Smart people make the customers look stupid. That's bad for business. Make people feel bad about being smart, put them in shitty jobs, and intimidate them so they don't breed. Oh, our society's failing? MUST NOT BE A CONNECTION, YO.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7697636 - 11/30/07 04:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

there's a book written on this exact topic, which also uses Hemingway as an example. It's called "The Outsider" by Colin Wilson, and I'd definitely suggest it.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7698080 - 11/30/07 09:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Conservationist said:
we also have many extremely intelligent people working in occupations that are considered among the lowliest, as may be attested by a review of the membership lists of Mensa (the club for the top two percent on intelligence scales).





Can you just give me an example of a highly intelligent person working in an occupation considered to be the "lowliest"?

Also, hard work plays a role too. Highly intelligent people who work very hard and are motivated tend to become physicians, lawyers etc. People who seem to be socially fit, and highly functional IMO.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7698176 - 11/30/07 09:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

If true, what do you suggest government should do about it? This is the Political Discussion forum, remember.





Phred


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Invisiblekake
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Phred]
    #7698190 - 11/30/07 09:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'd like to see the education system revamped by smarter people. This one-size-fits-all scheme is socialistic, not casuistic as it ought to be.


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The answer to 1984 is 1776.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kotik]
    #7698211 - 11/30/07 10:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
there's a book written on this exact topic, which also uses Hemingway as an example. It's called "The Outsider" by Colin Wilson, and I'd definitely suggest it.




Thanks for the tip. That's going on my "List of Books that I need to read" right next to The Lucifer Principle.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: badchad]
    #7698219 - 11/30/07 10:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:

Can you just give me an example of a highly intelligent person working in an occupation considered to be the "lowliest"?





Computer Programmers. We're treated like slaves by 5 different bosses who tell us all to do completely different things and then repremand us for doing what the other boss says and then repremand us for not getting our work done because we've been so god damn confused.

IMO the biggest retards are the ones that backstab the most and sabbotage people they know are smarter and worthier of higher paying jobs.... to get where they are because they know they can't compete on an even playing field. These people often succeed.

I don't think there's anyone really to blame or the gov't should do anything about it. It's a dog eat dog world and I firmly believe in Karma.

As far as doctors, lawyers, etc... These people are pretty smart..but smart but it doesn't mean they are wise. I find that the higher and more technical a degree someone has, the less common sense they have in other places. The more time you study books the less time you have at dealing with people.

It's always a trade off. If you spend all your time studying one subject (computers, how to socialize, medicine, literature, etc) your knowledge in other subjects lack. Plus "SMART" is a subjective word. Are we talking about intelligence? Wisdom? Street smarts? book smarts? etc?

I liken human development to developing a character in dungeons and dragons (yea I said it!). When you roll your dice, get your points, you have to chose where to put those points.. strength, intelligence, widsom, charisma.. the more you put into one category the more the other categories suffer... the same way with humans.

Like I said... tough call because SMART is pretty subjective.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kake]
    #7698235 - 11/30/07 10:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kake said:
I'd like to see the education system revamped by smarter people. This one-size-fits-all scheme is socialistic, not casuistic as it ought to be.




oligarchy!

That's not one-size fits all is it?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kotik]
    #7698238 - 11/30/07 10:11 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
there's a book written on this exact topic, which also uses Hemingway as an example. It's called "The Outsider" by Colin Wilson, and I'd definitely suggest it.




Anyone have an online copy?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: trendal]
    #7698292 - 11/30/07 10:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm still not understanding how this is a political issue. Would someone like to take a stab at explaining that to me?



Phred


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Phred]
    #7698298 - 11/30/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Criticizing a perceived social trend in society is seen as being "political" by a lot of people. I tend to disagree however.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7698307 - 11/30/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Just because it doesn't deal with the government doesn't mean it's politics. Society has its own politics as well.

Dictionary.com has many definitions for "POLITICS"

* use of intrigue or strategy in obtaining any position of power or control, as in business, university, etc.

* (initial capital letter, italics) a treatise (4th century b.c.) by Aristotle, dealing with the structure, organization, and administration of the state, esp. the city-state as known in ancient Greece.

* The often internally conflicting interrelationships among people in a society.

* The art or science of government or governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and the administration and control of its internal and external affairs.

While most of these definitions deal with government/state affairs, many do not. I personally think politics means thinking or behaving in a way to manipulate power, whether it be in government, societity, school, etc.

I think a thread regarding a trend of society to control a smaller group within socierty DEFINATELY belongs here.

That's just my opinion.

I mean... For those of you think this thread doesn't belong here, If there was a topic here about GREENPEACE trying to convince people to use less gas, I get some of you wouldn't have a problem with it being here, and that post wouldn't even have anything to do with Law/Government itself.

Now if this topic were just about one person whining about how people playing water cooler politics in their office is pissing them off, I might object, but this guy's talking about a trend of greater society.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: BrAiN]
    #7698397 - 11/30/07 11:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This isn't politics, it's sociology.




Phred


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Phred]
    #7698755 - 11/30/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

There are parts of sociology which can be politics. I mean.. hell... the ditionary even says one of the definitions of politics is:


" use of intrigue or strategy in obtaining any position of power or control, as in business, university, etc. "

I think this description nails this topic right on the head.

Just because it's sociology doesn't mean it can't be politics and just because it's politics doesn't mean it can't be sociology. The only other more apt place for this would be the pub and I'm sure this guy is looking for some mature perspectives on this. You stick it in the pub and you'll just get tons of one-liners and not really much of a discussion.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: BrAiN]
    #7698769 - 11/30/07 12:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Fuck, man. I majored in Sociology, and half the shit we talked about in class was politics.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: BrAiN]
    #7698782 - 11/30/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This has nothing to do with the "use of intrigue or strategy in obtaining any position of power or control", this is a link to a sociologist giving his theory on why he believes more intelligent people are unhappy than non-intelligent people. It has as little relevance to politics as would some other sociologist theorizing that beautiful people are less happy than plain people, or that short people are happier than tall people.

Even the sociologist who wrote this speculative article doesn't blame the (alleged) unhappiness of intelligent people on any government or even societal policy decisions.

As I said -- this is sociology, not politics.




Phred


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Phred]
    #7698809 - 11/30/07 12:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I disagree. The post originally had to do with unintelligent people trying to control smart people.

People trying to control each other?

Sounds like sociology sure.. Also sounds like.. hmm.. POLITICS?


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7699915 - 11/30/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Einstein was a charlatan. Look at this page
http://www.geocities.com/sciliterature/RelativityDebates.htm
look at the links and download the pdf files and read them.


I've got two books by Bjerknes. He doesn't seem to distinguish between the theories of Lorentz and Poincare and Einstein, etc. They are slightly different. There's a lot of evidence that Einstein was deceptive and didn't give credit to his sources. Gerber and Hilbert apparently contributed to the General theory of relativity, but Einstein never gave them any credit.
http://home.comcast.net/~xtxinc/prioritymyth.htm


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7699967 - 11/30/07 05:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

If you have above average intelligence then you will have trouble getting along with people who are average or below average. I knew this a long time ago. If you work in a job that requires a lot of intelligence and/or education, like a college degree, you'll work around people who are smart like you and you won't be hearing stupid sex stories and other decadent BS like that. There seems to be a skism in society between the blue collar and white collar workers. If you work around blue collar workers, you'll see that many of them are decadent low lives like the type of people you see on drug forums, like at the shroomery or wetdreams.ws. There are more civilized blue collar workers, but many of them play the niggardly game of lowering themselves and others around them, the same way slugs and worms are ugly so you don't eat them and leave them alone. Construction is full of niggardly people, both white niggers, black niggers and niggers of all races.


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Luddite]
    #7700067 - 11/30/07 05:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You better hope people know what that word means...


In any case, im the same way. Growing up, i was put into a "gifted" program, but it never really went any further than that. call it vain, but i know i think on a higher level than my peers. All my life, i have had poor grades and have been very lazy. looking back, i dont think that society provides for people of higher higher intelligence than others. granted, i could have made the most of it by not being lazy and applying myself, but i was always bored. boredom by the mundane stuff that everyone else finds challenging, and i think thats why smarter people tend to be neglected. they are seen more as merely "that lazy kid"

i think that if you are determined to have a higher iq (which by no means says you're intelligent) you should be given special opportunities throughout youth. if it turns out that you arent that smart, they can drop you. We need more imagination in our learning, more creativity. and writing a creative essay doesnt cut it.

im rambling, so im gonna close.


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[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

READ DAMNIT! [/quote]


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: nobhdy] * 1
    #7700157 - 11/30/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I don't recall even knowing the word niggardly before the debacle in congress some time ago, but whatever... I'd imagine most in the US who weren't under a rock during that period know what it means.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: BrAiN]
    #7700317 - 11/30/07 06:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Quote:

badchad said:

Can you just give me an example of a highly intelligent person working in an occupation considered to be the "lowliest"?





Computer Programmers. We're treated like slaves by 5 different bosses who tell us all to do completely different things and then repremand us for doing what the other boss says and then repremand us for not getting our work done because we've been so god damn confused.

IMO the biggest retards are the ones that backstab the most and sabbotage people they know are smarter and worthier of higher paying jobs.... to get where they are because they know they can't compete on an even playing field. These people often succeed.

I don't think there's anyone really to blame or the gov't should do anything about it. It's a dog eat dog world and I firmly believe in Karma.

As far as doctors, lawyers, etc... These people are pretty smart..but smart but it doesn't mean they are wise. I find that the higher and more technical a degree someone has, the less common sense they have in other places. The more time you study books the less time you have at dealing with people.

It's always a trade off. If you spend all your time studying one subject (computers, how to socialize, medicine, literature, etc) your knowledge in other subjects lack. Plus "SMART" is a subjective word. Are we talking about intelligence? Wisdom? Street smarts? book smarts? etc?

I liken human development to developing a character in dungeons and dragons (yea I said it!). When you roll your dice, get your points, you have to chose where to put those points.. strength, intelligence, widsom, charisma.. the more you put into one category the more the other categories suffer... the same way with humans.

Like I said... tough call because SMART is pretty subjective.




Is that you, Dilbert?

Anyway, it seems to me it takes a different kind of "smart person" to actually join Mensa. Mensa members is a non-representative sample for the purposes of this study, i.e. Mensa membership self-selects for under-stimulated intellects. If they spent time with smart people in real life why would they join a douchy club?


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Luddite]
    #7700318 - 11/30/07 06:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Luddite said:
If you have above average intelligence then you will have trouble getting along with people who are average or below average. I knew this a long time ago.




you just have drop your ego to compensate.

Quote:


If you work in a job that requires a lot of intelligence and/or education, like a college degree, you'll work around people who are smart like you and you won't be hearing stupid sex stories and other decadent BS like that




I disagree. College degree doesn't mean squat.

The topic of this thread is a bit obscure too. Society is an abstract concept - at best, describing the general population. The general population is only as smart as the dumbest person, and only has the attention span of the most impatient of the crowd.

Crowd mentality (e.g. general polls, popular opinions, riots, concerts, black friday shoppers, etc.) is not something that caters to intelligent debate. You need to use emotions and bumper sticker phrases with societies, and reasoning with individuals.

I don't see any way around it, no matter what we do with the education system.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


Edited by kotik (11/30/07 06:36 PM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7700351 - 11/30/07 06:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

They hate if you if you're clever, and they despise a fool.








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OfflineGnosticWarrior
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7700806 - 11/30/07 09:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Intelligence is meaningless unless you act on it. Life was mean't to be a struggle, that's why no one can escape suffering to some degree. No one is going to just give you something.

I'm a Capitalist and learned about men like Warren Buffett and Eddie Lampert. They are known as capital allocators. A person like Buffett working thru conventional channels would have never been able to obtain a CEO position. He's not a Salesman. So how did he get to be a CEO of one of America's largest companies? He got in the back door by buying controlling interest in a failing textile company called Berkshire Hathaway. It's market price at the time of purchase was quantatively cheap relative to its book value. This is an example of using one's intelligence.

Not only in business but look at Martial Arts like Aikido. It was founded by Morihei Ueshiba, a small man. Talk about underdog. But he dedicated his life to his spiritual and martial practices. He became one of Japan's greatest martial artists and now his teachings have spread around the world. Do a web search to see how many Aikido dojos the are spread across the world.

Maybe one is truly not as intelligent (ability to problem solve) as he believes if one does not apply himself. If you knew better you would do better right?

As far as society goes, the masses need to start looking up to the right role models. I think a well rounded group of Buffett, Ueshiba, and balanced with some Terence Mckenna would be a good place for people to look for guidance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOy3H4yyocQ


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: GnosticWarrior] * 1
    #7701013 - 11/30/07 09:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

while i agree with you, i dont think that those two examples are in the same context. In my oppinion, intelligence is measured by the lust for knowlege, the curiosity of the world around you and the drive to understand it and make it better. I think that any person could sneak in through a back door. thats just being clever. as for the aikido(of which i am a huge fan, btw) i think that once a person fully devotes to something, resigns to the fact that this is his one lifes purose, he can do anything. creating a martial art falls into that.

but what of the musicians and artists? what about the theoretical physicists and the mathematicians? their one purpose in life is to understand their world. when the average joe wakes up in the morning and looks out his window, he sees a sprinkler running, the grass growing, a lady jogging her dog, ect. i see the way the water sticks to the grass and i wonder if when the sun rises, will it become a magnifying glass and harm the grass...or will the photosynthetic actions of the plant take a boost and grow healthier in the spot with the sprinkler...but then again where is the water coming from? it goes through a valve, from a water tower which utilizes gravity and....ect.


this is why our education system is ill equipped to handle high intelligence. they explain something, and then they leave it at that. the intelligent mind is always wondering "why?" but the system doesnt have the time to keep answering why. repetition has to be the most brutal to us. while we are wondering how ourr lesson connects with anything and everything, all our minds are being forced to do is "i before e, i before e, i before e"

you have no idea how frustrating this is, unless you have ADD like i do. its enough to want to recluse into a dream world, hence the bad grades....

however, there are those lucky few who have both intelligence, and a complete lack of any mental issues (which is rare, for some reason...perhaps humanity was never meant to become more intelligent)
these people utilize their unique minds to do extraordinary things. they become musicians, scientists, professors, writers, ect. they go to school and exced in all of societies tests.

as for the mental issues, look back in history. anyone of notable intelligence always had something "off" about them. Patton, mozart, einstein...they all showed an inhuman obsession. other people show extreme oddities bordering on autism or something similar. I have ADD myself, and the people i hang out with are society's "weirdos". the kids who doodle all class or do nothing but write stories or compose music or read books...we are weird, sure, but we think higher than those cool jocks who have society set up perfectly for them, and in the end, though we may have a higher intelligence, they are the more successful. perhaps this is why the intelligent arent being catered to as they should be. they are the "weirdos"

anyways, rambling again, so ill let someone else have the floor.


--------------------
[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

READ DAMNIT! [/quote]


Edited by nobhdy (11/30/07 10:10 PM)


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OfflineGnosticWarrior
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: nobhdy]
    #7701659 - 12/01/07 01:58 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I see your point. I have a friend, don't know if he's ADD like you but he's bipolar. He has his euhphoric and sucidal days. He was in a metal band and into sculpting, an artist. He was one of those "weirdos" you talk about. Can't hold a real job, self medicates himself with illicit drugs.

Yup, society does not understand him, bcs in school they start labeling people and maybe this is the institutional way to control people or make themselves feel better. All I know is in the grand scheme of the universe, we were all created with some talent to contribute to humanity, and if those with the money, power, recognition, etc. refuse to embrace the diversity of people, of not just external differences but mental ones too, our quality of life will not be as rich as it could be and we all suffer. Some are just numbing themselves to it and use coping techniques.

But, I believe we are all in an earth school. Here to experience suffering to learn the lessons of love and trust of the positive vibrations, and we are all just at different phases and stages of that development.

Aloha


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InvisibleOldSpice
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Silversoul]
    #7701703 - 12/01/07 02:33 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Fuck, man. I majored in Sociology, and half the shit we talked about in class was politics.



Society will not ever hate you for being smart...


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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: nobhdy]
    #7701814 - 12/01/07 04:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You don't need a book on this subject, it's simple for anyone smart and that's given it a minute's thought:

Most people are dumb. So when someone is overtly smart, that's a threat. They will never be as smart as that person.


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Invisiblemachination
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #7701823 - 12/01/07 04:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

depends if the individual is generating the creativity themselves, for what reasons. everyone is of equal intelligence


--------------------
"Have you not learned that your word is bond? Yes, my word is bond and bond is life, I shall give my life, before my word shall fail."


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: machination]
    #7701840 - 12/01/07 05:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> everyone is of equal intelligence

Sorry, but I have met people much more intelligent than I am. I would agree that the standard IQ test is not a real measure of a persons true intelligence, but to say that all people are of equal intelligence is not at all accurate (by any normal definition of intelligence).


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Invisiblewps
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Phred]
    #7702223 - 12/01/07 10:06 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
If true, what do you suggest government should do about it? This is the Political Discussion forum, remember.





Phred




this is a classic example of government not being able to do shit. its a private business matter. And they will probably never do anything about it.

so maybe in 50 years, when private businesses have run society into the ground, people will realize that allowing corporations to control their lives is just as bad as allowing the government to do so.


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"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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Invisiblewps
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: wps]
    #7702243 - 12/01/07 10:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

to the original poster:

I agree this is a huge problem in america.

The people I grew up with were all smart kids. We were the AP set, all honors. Ten years later, this group of people are almost all living below the poverty line. One is a waitress, another a gas station attendant. etc...

I think a lot of it has to do with morality. Most of these people are intelligent enough to realize that if you want to get paid big in this country, you have to fuck people over. Its just the dog eat dog narure of business. Intelligent people want nothing to do with that, so they settle for simpler lives that are in accordance with their complex understanding of morality.

Also, Human resources people are notoriously bigoted. Just because they can't discriminate against race, sex, or creed doesn't mean they won't discriminate against someone for being too smart, too liberal, too thin, too eclectic, too open-minded, etc...

but hey, thats the company's choice, right? I say, let the company's bad choices ruin them. The blacklisting of intelligence cannot continue forever without entailing some horrible disaster.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: wps]
    #7702254 - 12/01/07 10:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Sigh. The original poster's paranoid delusions lead him to believe -- with no evidence whatsoever, merely cynical speculation -- that employers prefer to hire dummies over intelligent people. Note that the sociologist who wrote the article in the "supporting" link says nothing even remotely like that. This speculation is based strictly on the original poster's worldview.

The fact of the matter is that businesses who need smart people in order to be successful hire smart people, and businesses which don't need smart people in order to be successful hire smart people and not-so-smart people -- always presuming all other things are equal. If the intelligent job applicant looks like a circus sideshow inhabitant and/or exhibits bizarre personality traits or comes across as lazy or unreliable or whatever, all bets are off.

Very VERY few business owners avoid hiring intelligent people for the simple reason that (all other things about the job applicant being equal) there is a very large upside in having smart people working for you and almost zero downside.




Phred


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Invisiblewps
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Phred]
    #7702270 - 12/01/07 10:33 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

wow, phred, you have a knack for stating the way things should be as if its the way they really are.

of course its only logical that businesses should hire smart people. That doesn't mean they do. There are complex psychological factors at work here that make the end result less than logical.

For instance: My mother has a master's degree in music. She works as a private voice teacher in public schools. She has tried for 20 years to get a permanent position, but she is too overqualified to get it. The person interviewing her for such a position would always be a school music director with less education than my mother. So they feel threatened by her, and try to keep her out.

Should they hire her? Absolutely! She's willing to work for peanuts and has more skill and education than anyone there! On paper, she could bury anyone with credentials. But they do not hire her, and this decision is obviously not based in logic, but irrational emotion.

I think you misunderestimate the influence of irrational human psychology in the way mundane things like getting a job work.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: wps]
    #7702506 - 12/01/07 11:39 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wps said:
The people I grew up with were all smart kids. We were the AP set, all honors. Ten years later, this group of people are almost all living below the poverty line. One is a waitress, another a gas station attendant. etc...




hahahaha You have to be kidding me. All of the smart people I know (except for myself) have degrees and high paying jobs in challenging fields. All of the people I know who ended up like losers (like me) are lazy or they are dumb.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: wps]
    #7702548 - 12/01/07 11:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

No, wps, I state things as they really are. I've been working for three and a half decades now. I've been an employee, an employer, a sole business owner, a business partner, and an employee again. I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the business world.

What I said about businesses holds true. In every single business in the entire world? Of course not. There will always be businesses which are poorly run. They fail all the time. Some manage to limp along for years, but no poorly run business will succeed in the long run. And a business which would benefit from having intelligent workers which refuses to hire them is a poorly run business.

Quote:

She has tried for 20 years to get a permanent position, but she is too overqualified to get it.




Is that the only reason she hasn't got it? Are you SURE about that? Maybe she also interviews badly. Have you sat in on any of her interviews?

Quote:

The person interviewing her for such a position would always be a school music director with less education than my mother. So they feel threatened by her, and try to keep her out.




As should be apparent from my post, I was discussing the world of business, not the world of government. Public schools by definition being government enclaves, my points will not necessarily apply. What has been your mother's experience in interviews for the same position at private schools?

And of course, I need not point out that a single anecdote proves nothing one way or the other, nor need I point out that credentials =/= intelligence.




Phred


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Phred]
    #7703049 - 12/01/07 02:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Id have to agree with phred on this one. like i said, there are those gifted people who have both high intelligence and the drive to utilize it. i would say that there is a reason that your mom isnt getting hired that you dont know about. With those kind of qualifications, its hard to refuse someone.

as for what seuss said, i completely agree. Someone may have a higher iq, but that is only a gauge on potential intelligence, what someone might be able to do, and even then, its not completely accurate. i know people with lower iq scores that are more intelligent than i am and yet some people with higher scores than me are really not very impressive.

like i said earlier, i guage intelligence by the perception and understanding of the world around you, the way you think about things, not how much of something you know.


--------------------
[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

READ DAMNIT! [/quote]


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: wps]
    #7703293 - 12/01/07 04:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wps said:


I think a lot of it has to do with morality. Most of these people are intelligent enough to realize that if you want to get paid big in this country, you have to fuck people over. Its just the dog eat dog narure of business. Intelligent people want nothing to do with that, so they settle for simpler lives that are in accordance with their complex understanding of morality.






That doesn't really describe me or the Russian Mafia which supposedly has a lot of people with college degrees, masters, phd's, etc.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: downforpot]
    #7703489 - 12/01/07 04:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

honestly, getting good grades in school and getting a degree doesnt necessarily mean the guys intelligent. anyone who has work ethic can do that sort of thing.


--------------------
[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

READ DAMNIT! [/quote]


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: nobhdy]
    #7704238 - 12/01/07 08:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

So any moron can get a PhD in physics?


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


Edited by downforpot (12/01/07 08:30 PM)


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: downforpot]
    #7704492 - 12/01/07 09:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

yes, however you dont see your average joe even interested in that sort of thing. Who else but those people who have a great curiosity about their world would put that much effort obtaining such a degree? Just your average joe is interested in faster means of "gratification" by which i mean money. fields like medicine or business dont really take a special person and tend to pay more than a physics degree (depending completely, of course, on your particular job)

use some common sense. things arent completely black and white. there are exceptions to almost any situation. dont think in infinite shades of gray, either...


--------------------
[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

READ DAMNIT! [/quote]


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: nobhdy]
    #7705509 - 12/02/07 03:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yes there are exceptions but the point is that the Russia Mafia is full of extremely intelligent people with college degrees.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: downforpot]
    #7706139 - 12/02/07 11:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

i thought the point was that america wasnt set up to deal with and utilize intelligent people...


--------------------
[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

READ DAMNIT! [/quote]


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: nobhdy]
    #7707287 - 12/02/07 04:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

That's the topics point, wps started talking about something completely different.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


Edited by downforpot (12/02/07 04:27 PM)


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: downforpot]
    #7708365 - 12/02/07 08:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

this is getting off topic. make your point clear without sarcasm, please.


--------------------
[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

READ DAMNIT! [/quote]


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: nobhdy]
    #7708389 - 12/02/07 08:42 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

how long shall they kill our prophets, while we stand aside and look?

some say its just a part of it, we got to fulfill the book.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Phred]
    #7708409 - 12/02/07 08:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
I'm still not understanding how this is a political issue. Would someone like to take a stab at explaining that to me?



Phred




the right wing is pretty anti-intellectual all of the sudden. especially the jesus tards who believe shit that is really impossible non-sense.


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OfflinePandora
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: nobhdy]
    #7708467 - 12/02/07 09:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nobhdy said:
You better hope people know what that word means...


In any case, im the same way. Growing up, i was put into a "gifted" program, but it never really went any further than that. call it vain, but i know i think on a higher level than my peers. All my life, i have had poor grades and have been very lazy. looking back, i dont think that society provides for people of higher higher intelligence than others. granted, i could have made the most of it by not being lazy and applying myself, but i was always bored. boredom by the mundane stuff that everyone else finds challenging, and i think thats why smarter people tend to be neglected. they are seen more as merely "that lazy kid"

i think that if you are determined to have a higher iq (which by no means says you're intelligent) you should be given special opportunities throughout youth. if it turns out that you arent that smart, they can drop you. We need more imagination in our learning, more creativity. and writing a creative essay doesnt cut it.

im rambling, so im gonna close.




Alright, this is only partially in response to you, but it (kind of) encompasses my whole point. At the age of 2 I taught myself how to read. 5, I was reading real books. 7, reading novels (the Black Pearl, Islands of the Blue Dolphins, etc.) and doing pre-algebra (square roots, fractions and the like) By the end of that year, I tested post-hightschool and my elementary school principal chose to keep me at my current grade to keep my testing scores at my AGE, not my true level. At 8 years old, I would cry every night because I was smarter than my peers, not the opposite. My mother was so concerned about me she took me out of school for homeschooling (another story).
By the age of 14, I was testing sophomore for college, and I dropped all my studies.
(I'm not tooting my own horn; keep reading)
At 15, I began trying to commit suicide, which continued unsuccessfully for several years, and then progressed into trying to destroy myself through alcohol abuse. All I wanted was to understand teens my age, and vice versa. A few years later I took my GED and passed in the highest percentile - then I applied for J.C.
I am currently qualified for MENSA and am a member of the national honor roll with a G.P.A. of 3.8 for years. However, the only place I use my intelligence is school. I hide it at home, work, and life, and would give anything to trade the life I used to have.
Society IS nicer to people closer to the norm.
What makes me happy now is my puppies.


--------------------
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them" - Joseph Brodsky


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Offlinegbeatle
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7708471 - 12/02/07 09:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

it's so true man. i just laugh at them all.


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: gbeatle]
    #7709001 - 12/02/07 11:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I can completely understand that. i was reading the encyclopedia set my parents got as a wedding gift by the 1st grade, and by the 9th, i had already read everything the next 4 years of english had to offer. i wasnt impressed with school...

the difference between us is that you had the drive to work hard at what you were supposed to do, while i read for the hell of it. also, you let society get to you. i have found that talking with normal people boring. my roomates for example (i live in the barracks. im in the navy) all talk about what girl they are doing or how much weed they're going to smoke when they get out. when i try to bring up politics or try to explain something, they crash down on me, telling me that my priorities are all wrong. I simply let society move on without me and i lived in my books. when i found the internet, it was a whole different story, but the same feeling. i was being taken to a world all my own and didnt have to deal with people.

all im saying is i agree with you, i guess...


--------------------
[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

READ DAMNIT! [/quote]


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Pandora]
    #7709046 - 12/02/07 11:18 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think the whole suicide thing was probably because you're a nutty and unstable person.

All of the really smart people I know are lawyers and shit like that and they are super-successful.  :shrug:


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Offlinegbeatle
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7709158 - 12/02/07 11:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

it's all in the mind. you can become anything you want but its the inside that matters not the outside. a good example of this is music. ill use examples like elvis, the beatles, kurt cobain hell even mozart, these amazing artist would have never gotten by on there looks or any of that jazz they went through alot of pain in there lifes and learned how to use it to there advantage and just did what they wanted to do even if people hated them at first. then they became huge. lol sorry if this doesnt make much since either its cause im high or your an ignorant bastard dissagreeing lol.


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: nobhdy]
    #7709264 - 12/03/07 12:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nobhdy said:
this is getting off topic. make your point clear without sarcasm, please.




what the fuck are you talking about? Sarcasm? Where the fuck did I show any sarcasm?


--------------------



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"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Offlined33p
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Pandora]
    #7709330 - 12/03/07 12:34 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pandora said:
Alright, this is only partially in response to you, but it (kind of) encompasses my whole point. At the age of 2 I taught myself how to read. 5, I was reading real books. 7, reading novels (the Black Pearl, Islands of the Blue Dolphins, etc.) and doing pre-algebra (square roots, fractions and the like) By the end of that year, I tested post-hightschool and my elementary school principal chose to keep me at my current grade to keep my testing scores at my AGE, not my true level. At 8 years old, I would cry every night because I was smarter than my peers, not the opposite. My mother was so concerned about me she took me out of school for homeschooling (another story).
By the age of 14, I was testing sophomore for college, and I dropped all my studies.
(I'm not tooting my own horn; keep reading)
At 15, I began trying to commit suicide, which continued unsuccessfully for several years, and then progressed into trying to destroy myself through alcohol abuse. All I wanted was to understand teens my age, and vice versa. A few years later I took my GED and passed in the highest percentile - then I applied for J.C.
I am currently qualified for MENSA and am a member of the national honor roll with a G.P.A. of 3.8 for years. However, the only place I use my intelligence is school. I hide it at home, work, and life, and would give anything to trade the life I used to have.
Society IS nicer to people closer to the norm.
What makes me happy now is my puppies.




Bold: I call mother fucking shenanigans on that shit.

I was a gifted kid. I had shit loads of fun in elementary school and we were never looked down upon by our peers and this was Miami public schools. And even though I was in gifted classes, the shit was way too easy and a joke. Hell, even later APs and college courses are way too easy. I loathe school. I dropped out of university over the summer to take care of my grandmother in the caribbean after my grandfather died but I think I'll go back next fall because I want to work in my ideal profession so badly. I'm not looking forward to grad school though. At least no matter what happens I could always move to the caribbean and become an organic vegetable farmer or open a restaurant.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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OfflinePandora
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: d33p]
    #7709483 - 12/03/07 01:51 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Quote:

Pandora said:
Alright, this is only partially in response to you, but it (kind of) encompasses my whole point. At the age of 2 I taught myself how to read. 5, I was reading real books. 7, reading novels (the Black Pearl, Islands of the Blue Dolphins, etc.) and doing pre-algebra (square roots, fractions and the like) By the end of that year, I tested post-hightschool and my elementary school principal chose to keep me at my current grade to keep my testing scores at my AGE, not my true level. At 8 years old, I would cry every night because I was smarter than my peers, not the opposite. My mother was so concerned about me she took me out of school for homeschooling (another story).
By the age of 14, I was testing sophomore for college, and I dropped all my studies.
(I'm not tooting my own horn; keep reading)
At 15, I began trying to commit suicide, which continued unsuccessfully for several years, and then progressed into trying to destroy myself through alcohol abuse. All I wanted was to understand teens my age, and vice versa. A few years later I took my GED and passed in the highest percentile - then I applied for J.C.
I am currently qualified for MENSA and am a member of the national honor roll with a G.P.A. of 3.8 for years. However, the only place I use my intelligence is school. I hide it at home, work, and life, and would give anything to trade the life I used to have.
Society IS nicer to people closer to the norm.
What makes me happy now is my puppies.




Bold: I call mother fucking shenanigans on that shit.

I was a gifted kid. I had shit loads of fun in elementary school and we were never looked down upon by our peers and this was Miami public schools. And even though I was in gifted classes, the shit was way too easy and a joke. Hell, even later APs and college courses are way too easy. I loathe school. I dropped out of university over the summer to take care of my grandmother in the caribbean after my grandfather died but I think I'll go back next fall because I want to work in my ideal profession so badly. I'm not looking forward to grad school though. At least no matter what happens I could always move to the caribbean and become an organic vegetable farmer or open a restaurant.




FUCK YOU AND SHENANIGANS! Bring it BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't have anything to prove to any of you princess-ann pussy bitches! DID YOU LIVE IN SD????? I WAS TRYING TO HELP NOT START A WAR YO IGNORANT FOOL!
ANYway,
talk to me if you want proof. SDCC I can prove it. OR for you "piece-o-shit's" out there, we can talk too. Trust me, I hope you try to slice your wrists and barely make it like me. 'Cuz you know, assholes like me try to make their life like they've ever wanted to die all the time!


--------------------
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them" - Joseph Brodsky


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Offlined33p
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Pandora]
    #7709506 - 12/03/07 02:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pandora said:
Quote:

d33p said:
Quote:

Pandora said:
Alright, this is only partially in response to you, but it (kind of) encompasses my whole point. At the age of 2 I taught myself how to read. 5, I was reading real books. 7, reading novels (the Black Pearl, Islands of the Blue Dolphins, etc.) and doing pre-algebra (square roots, fractions and the like) By the end of that year, I tested post-hightschool and my elementary school principal chose to keep me at my current grade to keep my testing scores at my AGE, not my true level. At 8 years old, I would cry every night because I was smarter than my peers, not the opposite. My mother was so concerned about me she took me out of school for homeschooling (another story).
By the age of 14, I was testing sophomore for college, and I dropped all my studies.
(I'm not tooting my own horn; keep reading)
At 15, I began trying to commit suicide, which continued unsuccessfully for several years, and then progressed into trying to destroy myself through alcohol abuse. All I wanted was to understand teens my age, and vice versa. A few years later I took my GED and passed in the highest percentile - then I applied for J.C.
I am currently qualified for MENSA and am a member of the national honor roll with a G.P.A. of 3.8 for years. However, the only place I use my intelligence is school. I hide it at home, work, and life, and would give anything to trade the life I used to have.
Society IS nicer to people closer to the norm.
What makes me happy now is my puppies.




Bold: I call mother fucking shenanigans on that shit.

I was a gifted kid. I had shit loads of fun in elementary school and we were never looked down upon by our peers and this was Miami public schools. And even though I was in gifted classes, the shit was way too easy and a joke. Hell, even later APs and college courses are way too easy. I loathe school. I dropped out of university over the summer to take care of my grandmother in the caribbean after my grandfather died but I think I'll go back next fall because I want to work in my ideal profession so badly. I'm not looking forward to grad school though. At least no matter what happens I could always move to the caribbean and become an organic vegetable farmer or open a restaurant.




FUCK YOU AND SHENANIGANS! Bring it BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't have anything to prove to any of you princess-ann pussy bitches! DID YOU LIVE IN SD????? I WAS TRYING TO HELP NOT START A WAR YO IGNORANT FOOL!
ANYway,
talk to me if you want proof. SDCC I can prove it. OR for you "piece-o-shit's" out there, we can talk too. Trust me, I hope you try to slice your wrists and barely make it like me. 'Cuz you know, assholes like me try to make their life like they've ever wanted to die all the time!




Damn girl, put the meth pipe down and slowly back away from the keyboard.

I was genuinely interested when i called shenanigans. Also, I don't suppose you believe that you can recall memories from that age, do you? It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people claim to have memories prior to age three. Personally, I don't believe its possible. I'm not closed off to the possibility of being wrong, though.

Oh, and if an admin sees that. I take no offense to it. Don't do anything to her.


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OfflinePandora
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: d33p]
    #7709531 - 12/03/07 02:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't do meth, although I have seen plenty of friends and friends' family go down. I'm plenty hyper to accommodate it though - I just jumped to conclusions. I am in a bit of a bad mood due to my own issues tonight so I apologize if I came off wrong. My honey is 3000 miles away and it got to me today.

Anyway, call shenanigans. I speak truth. I have and can show pictures of my scars. I have been bulimic for over 10 years and cannot prove that since my friends would kill me to know my disorder is still active. I now love being alive, and love my dogs. they truly give me hope. If you want to talk further, or see pictures further, PM me. If you think I am liar, I really mourn for you and society. Would you like to hear my ups and downs as a person with an eating disorder? Have you ever watched yourself bleed hoping you wouldn't wake up? How about taking so many laxatives you were ashamed to use the restroom? Oh- what about wanting to donate an egg or sperm, but afraid to take the psych tests? how about being accused of being a meth user (sounds familiar to your accusation) simply because you are trying to fit in and be healthy? I hope you are happy.


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Offlined33p
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Pandora]
    #7709552 - 12/03/07 02:45 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pandora said:
I don't do meth, although I have seen plenty of friends and friends' family go down. I'm plenty hyper to accommodate it though - I just jumped to conclusions. I am in a bit of a bad mood due to my own issues tonight so I apologize if I came off wrong. My honey is 3000 miles away and it got to me today.

Anyway, call shenanigans. I speak truth. I have and can show pictures of my scars. I have been bulimic for over 10 years and cannot prove that since my friends would kill me to know my disorder is still active. I now love being alive, and love my dogs. they truly give me hope. If you want to talk further, or see pictures further, PM me. If you think I am liar, I really mourn for you and society. Would you like to hear my ups and downs as a person with an eating disorder? Have you ever watched yourself bleed hoping you wouldn't wake up? How about taking so many laxatives you were ashamed to use the restroom? Oh- what about wanting to donate an egg or sperm, but afraid to take the psych tests? how about being accused of being a meth user (sounds familiar to your accusation) simply because you are trying to fit in and be healthy? I hope you are happy.




Umm, when i said "Bold:" I meant in regrad to what I had bolded in your post. The only thing I was calling shenanigans on was that you taught yourself to read at age 2.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: d33p]
    #7709560 - 12/03/07 02:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I also was swimming at 2. Why is it so hard to believe smart people are smart?


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Offlined33p
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Pandora]
    #7709563 - 12/03/07 02:57 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pandora said:
I also was swimming at 2. Why is it so hard to believe smart people are smart?




A smart person wouldn't need to ask that question, serriously.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: d33p]
    #7709597 - 12/03/07 03:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

This thread is just a channel for people to tout how Intelligent they are.:rolleyes:


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: d33p]
    #7709633 - 12/03/07 04:22 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

> It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people claim to have memories prior to age three.

The house we lived in burned down when I was two and a half years old. I have a handful of memories from before the fire and certainly of the fire. They aren't super clear memories; I don't remember what I was thinking or feeling, but I remember doing certain things.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Seuss]
    #7709680 - 12/03/07 05:24 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"smart" people are pissed at "dumb" people because we're all thinking with different brains on the same playing field. hyuck hyuck. smart people go round to stupid in different areas, like a figure eight. the ones who are really the smartest just sort of relax in time............


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: machination]
    #7709724 - 12/03/07 06:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Society rewards intelligent people, but they have to work at it like everyone else. Read this thread and you'll see the same repetitive excuse:

"Well I am so smart, I just wasn't challenged enough so I never amounted to anything".

It's a cop-out excuse. it doesn't matter how smart you are, you still have to apply yourself and work to succeed..


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: badchad]
    #7709791 - 12/03/07 07:09 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

And again, I note there is no political content in this thread... just people telling us how smart they are. This is a sociological topic, not a political topic. Off to The Pub with it.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: nobhdy]
    #7709840 - 12/03/07 07:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't bother to read the article but as an intelligent person, :grin:, I find myself to be unhappy due to being surrounded by a bunch of drunken idiots who are content with barely succeeding. The good thing for me is that I'm also charismatic, not something other intelligent people I know are. All the intelligent people I know are socially crippled in that they dress odd, are ugly, and have no confidence, perhaps as a result of the two aforementioned.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Luddite]
    #7709849 - 12/03/07 07:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Luddite said:
Einstein was a charlatan. Look at this page
http://www.geocities.com/sciliterature/RelativityDebates.htm
look at the links and download the pdf files and read them.


I've got two books by Bjerknes. He doesn't seem to distinguish between the theories of Lorentz and Poincare and Einstein, etc. They are slightly different. There's a lot of evidence that Einstein was deceptive and didn't give credit to his sources. Gerber and Hilbert apparently contributed to the General theory of relativity, but Einstein never gave them any credit.
http://home.comcast.net/~xtxinc/prioritymyth.htm



I just had to comment on how silly you are. Id recommend you take a class on relativity before you read a home.comcast.net/jackoff website and claim to know what you are talking about. Lorentz, Poincare all did work in relativity. However this is nothing compared to what Einstein did.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7709915 - 12/03/07 08:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Us smart people stick together.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Cheezit]
    #7709948 - 12/03/07 08:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)



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InvisibleCheezit
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Silversoul]
    #7709952 - 12/03/07 08:44 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup:


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Cheezit]
    #7710009 - 12/03/07 09:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You guys do n ot even understand how smart I am furreal this time. I am a literal genious I will eat you up.


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7710058 - 12/03/07 09:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Conservationist said:
we also have many extremely intelligent people working in occupations that are considered among the lowliest, as may be attested by a review of the membership lists of Mensa (the club for the top two percent on intelligence scales).





If they're as smart as they think they are, then they could get a better job.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Cowgold]
    #7710066 - 12/03/07 09:43 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

There's different kinds of intelligence, and even the smartest people have some sort of mental block.


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Silversoul]
    #7710166 - 12/03/07 10:16 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Different kinds of intelligence. And different kinds of success.

What is a measure of intelligence. A series of paper tests? An IQ test? I think that's the whole issue to begin with. Intelligence doesn't count if it can't be used for anything.

Intelligence doesn't and shouldn't gaurantee success.

Intelligent people tend to apply thought in lieu of action.

If you ask me the measure of a person's success gives more indication of intelligence than a piece of paper proven to be innaccurate by the biggest test of all... Life.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Cowgold]
    #7710173 - 12/03/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So, George W. Bush is more intelligent than, say, Marcel Proust?


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Silversoul]
    #7710196 - 12/03/07 10:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

He's a glitch in the matrix. :lol:

My point is that just because you are smart doesn't mean you will make use of it.  If you measure intelligence by how a person plays thier cards Bush seems like a genius.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Cowgold]
    #7710213 - 12/03/07 10:33 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Depends if they want to play the games of society or not.

Bush isn't a glitch in the matrix, he's a standard in this backwards ass system.. a shining example for all the half-breeds of the world.

If you measure intelligence by success as a species then the human race on Earth is probably one of the dumbest species on the planet. We're like a virus, to ourselves and the rest of the planet.. Smith was right. Just because we have the potential to be the most incredible and amazing creatures, does not give us that by default. Humans still do some amazingly dumb things.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Shroomism]
    #7710224 - 12/03/07 10:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

What of the ability to adapt? Do the intelligent adapt slower than the Bush's and other half-breeds of the world? Or are intelligent people above society and happiness?


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Cowgold]
    #7710237 - 12/03/07 10:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Intelligent people are probably in every level of society, from the street corner to the pulpit. That bum yelling on the street just might have a thing or two more intelligent to say than the guy on TV. As for ability to adapt.. I would say that is paramount to intelligence and most importantly, evolution. Adapt or Be consumed, it's the way of life and applies on just about every level methinks. I don't think I understand your last question.


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Shroomism]
    #7710255 - 12/03/07 10:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It was just a suggestion for why intelligent people aren't always successful or happy. Maybe they're just above all that.


I'm just playing devil's advocate.

I agree with you. Intelligent people are probably in every level of society.

I find it interesting how the first post seems to suggest that intelligent people are entitled to a higher quality of life. Having more success, happiness and whatever else is associated with a higher quality of life.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Cowgold]
    #7710284 - 12/03/07 11:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think there are many different levels of "intelligence", but certainly many people do see the the many paradoxes of modern society and choose not to buy into the accepted standard of life. As a whole, I don't think our society is very geared towards intelligence, on the contrary.. I think our society (especially western society) discourages it a great deal. Watch TV, do what you are told, be a good consumer, don't question authority, think what we tell you to think. Those in power don't want an enlightened populace, they want mindless sheep. In this system, having more success is *usually* a result of playing the games and jumping through the hoops it has set up and not necessarily a measure of ones intelligence.

Happiness doesn't have to come with success either. And success is probably highly subjective. I think one of the biggest fallacies of our society is that in order to be happy you must make a lot of money in order to be secure and have a high standard of living. And you certainly don't have to be intelligent to make a lot of money. Just know what games to play and how to play them.

But yeah, I would agree that society hates smart people. Especially in materialistic America, I'm not sure how it is in the rest of the world. Public education is a complete joke and in order to pursue a higher education you usually must spend an arm and a leg, thus it isn't easily available to those who don't play the games. You can learn more by yourself, through the internet .. and experiencing life.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Shroomism]
    #7710326 - 12/03/07 11:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

"Only idiots need success to be happy." --Some Idiot


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Shroomism]
    #7710341 - 12/03/07 11:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I just think the whole topic is suspect.  Society hates smart people because they don't always have the best job and don't lead as happy lives.  HUH?  :what:

Concerning supposed image of what society expects??? 

The only time we come in contact with what most of you have suggested is expected by society is when we turn on the T.V..  I know for me the people that i'm in contact with tend to have opposite oppinions than 'society'.  Still, Somehow... Society is always the 'them' that emobodies all the qualities that we would never admit finding in 'us'.


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Offlined33p
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Seuss]
    #7710348 - 12/03/07 11:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people claim to have memories prior to age three.

The house we lived in burned down when I was two and a half years old. I have a handful of memories from before the fire and certainly of the fire. They aren't super clear memories; I don't remember what I was thinking or feeling, but I remember doing certain things.




Your family has talked about it quite a bit I assume. Hearing stories for years of such an important event could have easily led to implanted memmories.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Cowgold]
    #7710371 - 12/03/07 11:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well you do make a good point. A wise man once said you see the bad qualities in others as a mere reflection of that which you dislike most in yourself... or something to that extent.

I just don't think it's completely cut and dry.. there are many factors that determine one's own 'happiness' and what makes one person happy may not make the next person happy. When I refer to society I am mostly referring to the 'general consensus', or general avenue of thought programmed in most people. Yes, programmed. And yeah, TV is the epitome of what "society" thinks. That's why they call it TV programming, hyuk hyuk.

But yeah generally I find that happiness comes from within, and one does not need the best job or lots of money to be happy. I have been extremely happy in the most shitty situations, it's all about perspective and how you choose to see things. Life is either good or it really sucks. Or it's just meh. Society wants you to be beautiful and rich, which you don't need either of to be happy.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: d33p]
    #7710377 - 12/03/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people claim to have memories prior to age three.

The house we lived in burned down when I was two and a half years old. I have a handful of memories from before the fire and certainly of the fire. They aren't super clear memories; I don't remember what I was thinking or feeling, but I remember doing certain things.




Your family has talked about it quite a bit I assume. Hearing stories for years of such an important event could have easily led to implanted memmories.




I don't know where this is from because I didn't read the whole thread, but I most definitely have memories prior to age 3. Very vague ones, but memories nonetheless.. and they weren't implanted.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Shroomism]
    #7710465 - 12/03/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Most comedians I've met are pretty smart lads and lasses (all local comics, no one famous,and some who don't "perform", but I'd still consider comedians)
I've always appreciated the comic mind; I think that type of intelligence is kind of indefinable: I think it has to do a lot with the connections you make, using timing. I'm retarted, though.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7710474 - 12/03/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah because when you're smart you tend to see all the bullshit and it's either let it drive you crazy or laugh about it.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Shroomism]
    #7710479 - 12/03/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think society hates "smart" people.

I think that "smart" people may be more aware when people don't like them, or have confidence problems when it comes to people because they were late developing emotionally. Also, if you have a high IQ, you're more likely to realize that something is going to waste.

As far as the educational system goes, I think it rewards hard work and booksmarts. I never felt discriminated against in an educational sense as a kid, I felt I had a leg up on everyone. I was always told I was gifted as a child, and since I had the IQ scores to back it up I got into whatever classes I wanted, gifted programs at school and in the summer, better colleges, honor programs, etc. I entered college as a sophomore because of all the AP classes available to me.

I will admit that I was raised in an upper-middle class family, probably more to the upper than middle side. My parents valued education over everything else in my life, and consequently I saw that I was rewarded for being intelligent in virtually everything I did. When other kids were making ice cream cones, I got a job through the debate team at a law office. When people were worried about getting into college, I was only turned down from Yale.

If you grow up in a middle class or poor white background, I don't think the emphasis is on education as much, particularly in the schools, which is a shame. But I never felt like being smart made me hated by people. Some of them may have been a little jealous, but they eventually realized that they had other things going for them.

At this point, it's not so much that I think other people hate me for being smart, it's that I hate them for being morons. Misanthropy is visible and invites distaste.... i think this is a huge problem.

On the whole, our society values entertainment, and smart people may appear to be underpaid compared to athletes. But so-called "gifted" children are more likely to be happy in their lives, make much more money, and have fulfilling careers. They're also less likely to divorce.

There is the problem of displaced sensibility, in which an artist feels isolated from society due to their insights. This is probably true, but it really is a different kind of "smart" altogether.


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While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7710525 - 12/03/07 12:00 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well, can I say you are also female.. and that just MAYBE might have something to do with it?

I was a so-called 'gifted' child, except I was raised in a low-income divorced family. And male. Was taking advanced physics and reading at a college level in the 7th grade. But then I saw through the bullshit of public education and dropped out in the 10th grade, it wasn't for me. I wasn't going to play their stupid games and be their little sock puppet. Where I come from, the education system rewards the brainwashed kids that don't ask too many questions. Kids that think for themselves get sent to the "special" school regardless of IQ. Booksmarts don't mean anything if they are just memorized regurgitated facts with no experience to back them up and forgotten in two weeks. I could have gotten into a prestigious college if I had wanted to, and worked really hard at it. But I said fuck that jazz.

I guess it depends where you want to go in life. But being raised poor certainly doesn't help your desire for higher education. At least not for me. I learned far more outside of school anyway. You know, about reality. There's some shit they just don't teach in school and never will, like how to be a decent person.


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Invisiblewps
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Shroomism]
    #7710707 - 12/03/07 12:26 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

80% of people will administer a fatal electric shock to another human being if ordered to by an authority figure. (for real, based on research)

If you are smart enough to be in the 20% that refuses, then mainstream society has no place for you. fuck off and die.

Shroomism's right: its not ability or intelligence that are pre-requisites for success, but obedience. If some big company is going to entrust you with a $100k a year piece of the American economy, they want to know above all that you will be loyal to mainstream corporate interests. Ability and intelligence are distant seconds to obedience when it comes to the factors that help or hinder an individual's climb up the economic ladder.

This applies to school, too. Any monkey can get a 4.0 as long as they are good at following orders. Getting good grades isn't about being smart, its about showing authority figures your willingness to jump through hoops. Sure, you need some basic intelligence to know how to jump through a hoop, but beyond that its all just a test of obedience.

smart people tend to be less obedient, so smart people get shittier jobs and have less power. It really is that simple. The monied powers that run the world aren't going to hand over a large chunks of resources to people who are smart enough to oppose their will. They would rather give those resources to idiots who will go out and spend all the fruits of their labor on consumer products and entertainment that keeps them distracted from what a horrible mess this world has become.

not to worry: stupidity outbreeds intelligence so badly, there is already a majority of stupidity, and right now the intelligent minority is suffering. But, as more and more intelligent people decide not to have kids, and more and more trailer trash breed ad infinitum, soon there will be no more intelligence to be oppressed, and the idiot population of this dismal planet will wither and fail without intelligence to guide it. If that makes you feel any better.


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"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7710713 - 12/03/07 12:27 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The real question is - do smart people hate society?


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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7710734 - 12/03/07 12:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I think most probably have a love/hate relationship with it.


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Shroomism]
    #7710740 - 12/03/07 12:31 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Well, can I say you are also female.. and that just MAYBE might have something to do with it?





I think my being female has been more of a setback, because I am expected to conform more and act more "feminine"... and I don't, which has drawn more ire than being "smart" ever could. Because I refuse to conform to the stereotype of a southern woman, I literally have no female friends.

And I didn't have a good home life at all, my home SHOULD have been a divorced home, but unfortunately for everyone, it wasn't.

I'd say what had anything to do with feeling advantaged is the excellent public school I went to. I can't believe a school would discourage you to think for yourself. I think that class has more to do with it than anything.

In America people are generally reluctant to think about class, but it plays such a huge role in our educational life. I resisted school a little, but I saw it was a way to have a good life, maybe not a life as plush as the one I grew up in, but certainly something secure. Plus, I really like school. But that's probably because school has been an outlet to creative and unconventional thinking. In my experience, you are sent to the special school if you CANT think out of the box.

Class difference in the quality of education is a huge problem, which is why I will be applying for Teach for America when I get my teaching certificate. Good teachers can make a huge difference, but it's obvious they're all getting attracted to higher-paying schools in better neighborhoods, which is a shame.


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While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Shroomism]
    #7710762 - 12/03/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Was taking advanced physics and reading at a college level in the 7th grade.



Luckily you saw through the advanced physics bullshit and found multi-dimensional beings and a 'photon field' that will accelerate consciousness. You are a believable cat


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Shroomism]
    #7710769 - 12/03/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It's kind of weird how the "female" thing works for men....

On the one hand, it makes me irrational and a bitch and not worth a shiny turd

And on the other, it is the reason for any success I achieve in life.

I think I'm successful in my education because I had supportive parents that raised me to be a person and not a woman.


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While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7710784 - 12/03/07 12:39 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Oh and btw scantron grading machines can't tell whether you're a woman, and neither can the SAT or AP graders, they just grade by whatever the hell you bubbled in.

But I guess my test scores are somehow related to a secret feminazi conspiracy to install pro-female programs in all these machines....

yeah, that must be why I did well in school.

Interestingly, the valedictorian of my high school was a gay man.

I don't think his gender helped him one bit, but somehow he still managed to do okay.


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7710795 - 12/03/07 12:41 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

If everyone dropped out of school, did nothing and justified it with "not jumping through hoops" and "being a non-conformist" not much would get done.

I don't think that would be a very "smart" society.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7710806 - 12/03/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The high school I went to was actually the number one rated public high school in the country for a number of years. In a very prestigious area. So rich people would move there just so their kids could attend this school. This of course made things difficult for kids like me who just happened to live there. And yes, they highly discouraged creative thinking. If you did not fit the "mold" of the school you were most definitely singled out. It had very little to do with intelligence or aptitude.. and everything to do with being an obedient little sheep that did as you were told, when you were told. You may think I'm exaggerating things some, but I'm not, at all. In fact it was far worse and I could go into much greater detail but I'll save you that. But yeah, at my school.. you got sent to the special school if you thought outside of the box.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/education/challenge/2005/challengeindex01.html
Number 23 on the list now. But you'll notice the number of schools in the Northern VA area on that list.

Education should be provided free to all those who want it, and creative thought should be encouraged everywhere.

Class roles have a HUGE impact on our society to this very day. We are no different with the class system today than 500 years ago in England, you have the nobles and the peasants. I was a peasant.


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: badchad]
    #7710808 - 12/03/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

If everyone dropped out of school, did nothing and justified it with "not jumping through hoops" and "being a non-conformist" not much would get done.




I didn't mention anything about "jumping through hoops", that was wps.

And he's talking about the corporate world, not necessarily education.

Although I do agree that learning to be obedient in your educational life transfers to obedience in corporate life.


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7710819 - 12/03/07 12:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

That's all public school was to me, conditioning to become a "good obedient employee". God forbid they teach you any real life skills. Or information that is actually useful.

Granted, some individual teachers have their heart in the right place, and I have tons of respect for them. But they are swimming upstream in an industry that sees kids as numbers.


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: wps]
    #7710831 - 12/03/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wps said:
Shroomism's right: its not ability or intelligence that are pre-requisites for success, but obedience. If some big company is going to entrust you with a $100k a year piece of the American economy, they want to know above all that you will be loyal to mainstream corporate interests. Ability and intelligence are distant seconds to obedience when it comes to the factors that help or hinder an individual's climb up the economic ladder.






What about entrepreneurs?


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7710832 - 12/03/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Class roles have a HUGE impact on our society to this very day. We are no different with the class system today than 500 years ago in England, you have the nobles and the peasants. I was a peasant.





Couldn't agree more.

You know, you could have transferred to a different high school. I considered doing that, I think it costs $50 and you're inelligible for school competitions for a year.

I can't believe such a thing would happen in what is considered a top public school. The school I went to was extremely restrictive in terms of social life, but since I didn't give a shit, that didn't get in my way. I guess I went to a more liberal school than I thought. In the middle of the deep south I wore a shirt that said "atheism, communism, and fee love" on it for weeks at a time and my teachers thought it was cute.


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7710836 - 12/03/07 12:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

haha fee love


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7710840 - 12/03/07 12:49 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I did go to other schools... after I got expelled because the principal had some serious beef with me. But since I was in the same area, they were pretty much the same. DC area FTL. It's where they train all the would-be CIA agents, politicians, and military jarheads.


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7710884 - 12/03/07 12:57 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

RE: the female thing. I honestly didn't mean anything by it.. but based on my observations and experiences in school.. the females had it a lot easier than the males. And many of the teachers definitely would pick favorites, which also usually happened to be females. I wasn't trying to draw some kind of definite conclusion, just based on my experience at my school.. in general the females had a lot easier of a time just "drifting" through school.


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Shroomism]
    #7710904 - 12/03/07 01:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The classroom has a natural way of accomodating women over men. Girls are easier to teach because they're not as hyper. The school's answer for hyper kids is drugs.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7711459 - 12/03/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I see a million posts in this thread proclaiming vast amounts of intellect.  "I was taking college courses in third grade" and such.  Is there anybody here who is just a normal schmuck with normal intelligence?  I'm smart...but not especially so.  I'm probably a 6 on the 1-10 intelligence scale. 

I could pull out some bullshit excuse about how I'm too smart for society, but I'm not.  The reason that I'm a fucking loser is because I'm lazy as hell and I get bored and frustrated easily.  I don't buy the whole "smart people are disenfranchised from society" thing.  Smart people who are ambitious make good money,  Smart people who are lazy don't make good money.  :shrug:  Now, there's nothing wrong with that necessarily.  It's your life and you can live it however you want.  If you want to bust your ass so you can drive a Lexus...go ahead.  If you want to take it easy and live outside of the mainstream...go ahead.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7711480 - 12/03/07 03:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

After reading some more posts in this thread I feel a need to interject further.

I see such pointless contrarianism and rebellion in this thread. The same people who would rail about how society mistreats them because they are "different" are the same people who seem to be viciously attacking people who are different from them. So what if a lot of people decide to become educated, get good jobs, and earn good money? These "successful" people aren't brainwashed, sheep, etc.. They just choose to live different lives than you. If you don't want to be criticized then don't criticize them. Just let everybody live how they want to. Who the fuck cares and why waste time categorizing and de-humanizing people who are different than you? It's just retarded.

You guys scoffing at how America is full of braindead consumers who do nothing but work and buy stuff is the same thing as some rich lawyer yelling "Dirty Hippy!" at you.


Edited by RandalFlagg (12/03/07 03:49 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7711498 - 12/03/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I like to think I'm smart in an intellectual kind of way, but I do have a history of acting rather stupid. So if you measure intelligence by results, I guess I'm pretty dumb. And yet, people who've heard me talk about some of my ideas have often commented on how smart I am. So again, I think there are different types of intelligence, and some are more useful than others.


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7711499 - 12/03/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You know, I've never understood what is meant by a smart or intelligent person. Does smart usually mean well educated? A fast learner? I did well at school but maybe it's because I took it more seriously than some. I guess I just look at it like awareness = intelligence.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7711525 - 12/03/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

It is difficult to quantify intelligence.  For example, my long term memory is awesome.  I remember stupid little obscure things that most people would forget.  But, my short-term memory is horrible.  Somebody can introduce themselves to me and I'll usually forget their name in 20 seconds.  My artistic ability is nill.  But, my proficiency at technical things is high.

So...who knows?  :shrug:  However, I have met people who were much more intelligent than me.


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7711558 - 12/03/07 03:56 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


You know, I've never understood what is meant by a smart or intelligent person. Does smart usually mean well educated? A fast learner? I did well at school but maybe it's because I took it more seriously than some. I guess I just look at it like awareness = intelligence.




I think to a certain extent school is more than just taking it seriously or working hard. Education is something that you do outside of school as well as in it if you are truly committed.

That being said, there are plenty of "gifted" or smart children that leave themselves behind because they don't like school. They are like many children, but they have the added guilt of feeling like they're wasting their brains.

"Smart" in an academic sense translates into an awareness type of smart, but you don't have to be an academic to exercise these abilities of awareness. The smartest people are the ones who have a higher "capacity". This is literal. It refers to the raw computational powers of your brain.

For example, a gifted child will know things about language intuitively, and you won't have to teach him/her things like "singulars and plurals" or pronouns, verbs, etc. They will automatically understand and need little to no practice.

A gifted person will hear something once or twice and remember it. A person of average intelligence will need to hear the same set of information around 5 times to remember and apply that information.

A gifted brain will also try more connections between information than a person of average intelligence's brain. So if you give a gifted student 5 "sets" of information that are interrelated, they will try more combinations between these sets to figure out the relationship. This can be reflected in how well you did on the "puzzle tests" in elementary school. It's also related to creativity, because a gifted student will draw connections between things other people have not seen. This is true for people gifted at art, writing, math, social skills, virtually any subject or topic.

There are quantifiable ways of determining this, but in essence I think a "smart" person is a person that is more aware because they have the computational power to make arrangements in their head of reality others would not see. People who remember almost everything of what they have learned and can critically discern between conflicting sets if information have a natural advantage intellectually. This translates into other more important realms, like spiritual awareness.

Unfortunately this is also a class issue, and smart to many people does mean well-educated. I don't think you can be truly well-educated if you aren't smart, but I define well-educated as having a phd, not just a bachelors. Again, that's a class-based distinction that I'm making, most would define well-educated as a self-motivated educator or even someone with a high school diploma.

Many children's intellectual growth is often stunted by a lack of pre-school, lead based paint in houses (HUGE problem), not being able to read by first grade, etc. All of these are issues of class.


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While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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Offlinekriminalelement
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7711583 - 12/03/07 04:06 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


The classroom has a natural way of accomodating women over men. Girls are easier to teach because they're not as hyper. The school's answer for hyper kids is drugs.




I think girls do better in school because of the way things are taught, not necessarily because one gender is more "hyper" than the other. I was horribly hyperactive as a child, much worse than any of the boys in my class.

From what I've read on the topic, the capacity for emotional empathy with the teacher is what drives girls to do well in many cases. If they empathize with the teacher, they will listen to them and are more likely to obey.

I don't think little boys get much of an emotional attachment to many of their teachers. Emotional nurturing of boys is way behind girls, unfortunately because there are too many sexist stereotypes about boys' feelings. They don't do as well because they feel unacknowledged or like the teacher is "out to get them" and therefore subconsciously underperform.


--------------------
While there is a lower class, I am in it
While there is a criminal element, I am of it
While there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

Eugene V Debs


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OfflineKristian
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kriminalelement]
    #7711934 - 12/03/07 05:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm going to take over the world. I think that will prove I'm pretty smart. :smile:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: d33p]
    #7714033 - 12/04/07 05:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Your family has talked about it quite a bit I assume. Hearing stories for years of such an important event could have easily led to implanted memmories.




Somewhat, but the memories I have don't originate from the family stories. For example, the fire was in the middle of a blizzard, at night. I remember getting pelted with cold rain while being carried by one of my parents (don't know which) as we went door to door trying to find help. I remember looking at the fire thinking it looked like a big upside down orange bowl. I remember the fire fighters coming into the neighbors house, but I don't remember why. (Turns out they were getting hot chocolate.) Even after the fire, I remember everybody going to explore the house to see what was left and I refused to get out of the car because I was afraid that I might step on a hidden switch that would cause the fire to start again. These types of memories are original, not something that was created from listening to people talk about the event years later.

Another example of a very early memory I have is from when I was still in a baby bed (crib). I can remember pulling the dresser drawers open (that were next to the bed) to make a stair case so that I could climb out of bed and get down to the ground. I told my mother about it a few years ago and she said they always wondered how I was managing to get out of the crib when I was a baby. The reason they bought a regular bed for me, when they did, is because they were afraid I was going to fall out of the crib trying to climb out.


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Offline5150
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Pandora]
    #7715147 - 12/04/07 12:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

if u cant kill yourself successfully i think that qualifies u as an idiot,sorry,i,m glad your over that now though


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"the way of the warrior is the resolute acceptance of death"

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OfflineScarfmeister
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kake]
    #7715719 - 12/04/07 02:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kake said:
I'd like to see the education system revamped by smarter people. This one-size-fits-all scheme is socialistic, not casuistic as it ought to be.




Are you suggesting there are no room for individual development at schools in socialistic countries? Im sure Bush has explained to you all what socialism is.


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7716751 - 12/04/07 06:22 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not that smart (mensa and shit) and the people I know tend to mirror me.

But in my experience smart people are fucking boring.


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7717762 - 12/04/07 10:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The glorified roles that are associated with successful people are more driven on what you can get others to do. There are few 'success' roles that are a one man show. The lottery or a daytrader, but neither require a great deal of intelligence. More than with intelligence, success is more likely to be acquired with people skills. And people skills do not require a great deal of intelligence either.


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OfflineAlCapwn
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7718367 - 12/05/07 02:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

As a person of moderately high intelligence, I can vouch for the difficulty fitting in society.

School: Outcast for preferring chess and video games over playing with toy cars and listening to Blink 182. Socially awkward, etc...

Highschool: Never studied, slept in class and was generally a bad student. Still passed most of my tests with high marks, teachers often took me aside and told me that if they caught me cheating I'd fail (They never did, because I never cheated. I guess they can't accept that it's possible to reason almost everything) I failed a lot of math tests because I never used formulas we were taught. They'd tell me to show my work, then I would, and they'd take off points because that's not how I was intended to do it. I'd lose 2/3ds of my points or so on a lot of questions because of this. Of course, I could have bent over and did it right but I'm goddamned stubborn.

After high-school: Everyone gives me shit because I don't want to further my studies. "Oh, but you're so intelligent, you should become a doctor!". Fuckhole.

It's hard to have an interesting conversation with about(here comes an honest estimate) 60% of the population. If I talk on a relatively intellectual level, it happens more often than not that someone will say "yeah" and then just change the topic to something fucking retarded. I often get asked what words me, or find myself explaining simple concepts or the meaning of irony. I either have to dumb down my conversation and always agree with everyone, or ignore them, which I don't want to do.

So, along with immense pressure to lead a successful life (from just about everyone I know, and both sides of my large families, social awkwardness, I get way more shit when I do something "unlawful".

How many times have I heard "I expected better from a smart young man like yourself". I do drugs, every goddamn fucker on the planet gives me shit for it. Because I smoke pot, I've lost a lot of old intelligent friends and have to associate with dumb stoner stereotypes more than I want to. I've literally had to pretty much deliberately wreck my good kid reputation just to not get shit on a daily basis.

Conclusion: Majority of population is dumb -> smarter people can't relate to dumb people, activities, culture. A lot more is expected of intelligent people. Ignorance is bliss. Not only do intelligent people have a harder time ignoring things, they are aware of a much larger amount of things that need to be ignored to continue living a relatively happy life. We can't stop thinking.

That said, I lead a relatively happy life. I work damn hard to keep happy, and not dumb myself down at the same time. Even if I'm socially awkward, I'm not particularly shy, so I can still socialize when I'm with the right crowd.


--------------------
Huuuuurrrrrr!


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: AlCapwn]
    #7718387 - 12/05/07 03:14 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Learn to talk about bananas and metaphysics at the same time. If they get the banana stuff, ok, if they get the metaphysics, great. The truly wise can function on many levels.


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OfflineAlCapwn
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: daytripper23]
    #7718442 - 12/05/07 04:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I could still talk intellectually about bananas. I'm not having conversation about deep philosophical shit most of the time. It's not the subject, it's the conversation.

I could talk about a banana and how certain vitamins effect whatever, or fun facts about them and stuff. "I don't care about that, I just like the way they taste"


--------------------
Huuuuurrrrrr!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7718457 - 12/05/07 04:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I see a million posts in this thread proclaiming vast amounts of intellect. "I was taking college courses in third grade" and such. Is there anybody here who is just a normal schmuck with normal intelligence?




There was a poll here at the Shroomery a while back asking about IQ. I think the average response on the poll was around 150; a bit high considering the average of the population, by definition is 100 on a normal curve. I know my IQ is (or at least was, when tested) significantly less than 150.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineColbadol
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Seuss]
    #7718596 - 12/05/07 06:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

it seems like perceived intelligence is sort of like perceived driving ability. Everyone thinks that theyre terrific drivers. The fact it, stupid people are too dumb to realize that theyre stupid. They arent even AWARE of the higher levels that other people are at.....same as i cant really comprehend what goes on in some genius' heads. I dont think id want to.

Perceived intelligence could also have a lot to do with communication skills. Sure, you know what youre talking about in your mind, but can you say it in a clear and organized manner? Such is a symptom of our technological society. Itll only get worse.


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Invisiblemachination
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Colbadol]
    #7718806 - 12/05/07 08:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

never let em know you are the man behind the machine ; )


--------------------
"Have you not learned that your word is bond? Yes, my word is bond and bond is life, I shall give my life, before my word shall fail."


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: AlCapwn]
    #7718844 - 12/05/07 08:57 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

There's my life in a bag :smirk:

People of moderately high intelligence (avg+25) would feel the same around someone of average intelligence, as that person would feel around someone who is mentally retarded (avg-25).


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisiblemachination
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: trendal]
    #7718885 - 12/05/07 09:12 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

so, feel comfortable around everyone? ; )


--------------------
"Have you not learned that your word is bond? Yes, my word is bond and bond is life, I shall give my life, before my word shall fail."


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: AlCapwn]
    #7718946 - 12/05/07 09:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

So basicly, highly intelligent people don't have the patience to deal with average people... They'd rather work alone?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Seuss]
    #7719578 - 12/05/07 12:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
There was a poll here at the Shroomery a while back asking about IQ. I think the average response on the poll was around 150; a bit high considering the average of the population, by definition is 100 on a normal curve. I know my IQ is (or at least was, when tested) significantly less than 150.




Yep, everybody secretly thinks that they're a genius when in actuality the vast majority of us (myself included) have quite normal intellects. It gives one a smug sense of superiority to think that you are "above" the masses and more enlightened than them. I think it is nothing but condescending self-delusion.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: AlCapwn]
    #7719597 - 12/05/07 01:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AlCapwn said:
As a person of moderately high intelligence, I can vouch for the difficulty fitting in society.

School: Outcast for preferring chess and video games over playing with toy cars and listening to Blink 182. Socially awkward, etc...




The reason that you sound like an outcast is not because you're smart; it's because you're a dork.  Don't feel bad...I'm a dork too.  I have known very very smart people (way smarter than me) who were really social and awesome with people and everybody loved them.  :shrug:


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OfflineCaribou_Lou
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7719607 - 12/05/07 01:07 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

We've been fucked ever since they started the whole "everybody is created equal" thing


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7719617 - 12/05/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You can be as smart as possible, but unless you have some work ethic, you will be no better off that someone barely above the level of mental retardation pushing a broom. In fact, you would most likely be worse off because you would no you have potential, but have no urge to act on it.

I do not believe the US is biased against smart people. I have thrived in the educational setting since I was very young and have learned a great deal about work ethic and responsibility from my schooling. I have also been fortunate enough to surround myself with intelligent people at almost all points during my life. Not all of these people are educated formally, but many are on par with, if not exceeding, my intelligence.

Society may be envious of or suspicious of intelligent people, but at the end of the day none of those feelings matter anyways.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7719618 - 12/05/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
There was a poll here at the Shroomery a while back asking about IQ. I think the average response on the poll was around 150; a bit high considering the average of the population, by definition is 100 on a normal curve. I know my IQ is (or at least was, when tested) significantly less than 150.




Yep, everybody secretly thinks that they're a genius when in actuality the vast majority of us (myself included) have quite normal intellects. It gives one a smug sense of superiority to think that you are "above" the masses and more enlightened than them. I think it is nothing but condescending self-delusion.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon_effect


--------------------


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OfflineAlCapwn
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Cowgold]
    #7719626 - 12/05/07 01:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Pretty much. Kinda how someone would get irritated if you weren't able to lift very much doing a labor job.


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OfflineAlCapwn
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7719752 - 12/05/07 01:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I'm positive there's a link between intelligence and dorkery. If I wasn't on the more intelligent side, maybe I'd have been able to endure shallow punk lyrics and associate better with my fellow peers.


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Huuuuurrrrrr!


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OfflineCaribou_Lou
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Redstorm]
    #7720113 - 12/05/07 03:23 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
You can be as smart as possible, but unless you have some work ethic, you will be no better off that someone barely above the level of mental retardation pushing a broom. In fact, you would most likely be worse off because you would no you have potential, but have no urge to act on it.





This is very true.. i've seen some very intelligent lazy fucks.


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Invisibleslackophage
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Caribou_Lou]
    #7721095 - 12/05/07 06:21 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Caribou_Lou said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
You can be as smart as possible, but unless you have some work ethic, you will be no better off that someone barely above the level of mental retardation pushing a broom. In fact, you would most likely be worse off because you would no you have potential, but have no urge to act on it.





This is very true.. i've seen some very intelligent lazy fucks.




But I bet that broom-pusher with the high IQ has zero credit debt, no matter how low his wage is. He's probably happier than the majority, too. :gethigh:


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OfflineSkizm
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: slackophage]
    #11815805 - 01/12/10 03:19 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Ignorance is a badge of honor in schools today. If little Jimmy cannot add two and two but he can get a scholarship beating the shit out of little Bobby on the football field well AWLLLLLLLL RHightTTTTTTTTTTTT.

God forbid our kids question the pledge of allegiance, the education system, the political system, and the rest of the bull. If they can learn to blindly follow directions and punch the clock then we'll get them a good job fucking others out of their fake pieces of paper.


Edited by Skizm (01/12/10 03:24 PM)


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: badchad]
    #11815820 - 01/12/10 03:21 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

badchad said:

Can you just give me an example of a highly intelligent person working in an occupation considered to be the "lowliest"?




Dude didnt' you see Good Will Hunting?


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #11815860 - 01/12/10 03:28 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Conservationist said:
Western society is not set up to nurture intelligent children and adults, the way it dotes over athletes and sports figures, especially the outstanding ones. While we have the odd notable personality such as Albert Einstein, we also have many extremely intelligent people working in occupations that are considered among the lowliest, as may be attested by a review of the membership lists of Mensa (the club for the top two percent on intelligence scales).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8778/Why-Intelligent-People-Tend-To-Be-Unhappy

Smart people make the customers look stupid. That's bad for business. Make people feel bad about being smart, put them in shitty jobs, and intimidate them so they don't breed. Oh, our society's failing? MUST NOT BE A CONNECTION, YO.


The Myths of Modern Schooling - The Pub


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineSkizm
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: memes]
    #11815883 - 01/12/10 03:31 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

meams said:
Quote:

badchad said:

Can you just give me an example of a highly intelligent person working in an occupation considered to be the "lowliest"?




Dude didnt' you see Good Will Hunting?




Hollywood movies do not count as reality.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Skizm]
    #11815887 - 01/12/10 03:32 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

What about Farenheit 9/11? :strokebeard:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineSkizm
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Poid]
    #11815930 - 01/12/10 03:38 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
What about Farenheit 9/11? :strokebeard:




Can you compare those two movies though? One was a film parodying real life events and the other was a fictional story about a genius janitor.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Skizm]
    #11815941 - 01/12/10 03:39 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Yes I can compare them because they are both Hollywood movies.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineSkizm
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Poid]
    #11815953 - 01/12/10 03:41 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Yes I can compare them because they are both Hollywood movies.




That's like comparing March of the Penguins and Natural Born Killers. Sure, both are Hollywood movies and should be taken with a grain of salt, but they are in completely different categories.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Skizm]
    #11815970 - 01/12/10 03:42 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Dude, you said:

Quote:

Skizm said:
Hollywood movies do not count as reality.






I'm just telling you that that statement is not necessarily true, since some Hollywood movies are documentaries, and obviously do "count as reality".


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineSkizm
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Poid]
    #11815996 - 01/12/10 03:45 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Dude, you said:

Quote:

Skizm said:
Hollywood movies do not count as reality.






I'm just telling you that that statement is not necessarily true, since some Hollywood movies are documentaries, and obviously do "count as reality".




That's true, however we are comparing two different categories of movies. One parodied events that actually happened. One is fictional. Now, whether or not Fahrenheit 9/11 is a truthful movie is another story. However, the fact remains that the events parodied in the movie actually happened.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Skizm]
    #11816008 - 01/12/10 03:47 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Poid]
    #11816558 - 01/12/10 05:08 PM (14 years, 19 days ago)

some peolpe don't like being pushed... some don't like being pulled. some don't like either and some don't know if either...


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