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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: badchad]
#7710808 - 12/03/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
If everyone dropped out of school, did nothing and justified it with "not jumping through hoops" and "being a non-conformist" not much would get done.
I didn't mention anything about "jumping through hoops", that was wps.
And he's talking about the corporate world, not necessarily education.
Although I do agree that learning to be obedient in your educational life transfers to obedience in corporate life.
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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That's all public school was to me, conditioning to become a "good obedient employee". God forbid they teach you any real life skills. Or information that is actually useful.
Granted, some individual teachers have their heart in the right place, and I have tons of respect for them. But they are swimming upstream in an industry that sees kids as numbers.
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Cowgold
Bullshit


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: wps]
#7710831 - 12/03/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
wps said: Shroomism's right: its not ability or intelligence that are pre-requisites for success, but obedience. If some big company is going to entrust you with a $100k a year piece of the American economy, they want to know above all that you will be loyal to mainstream corporate interests. Ability and intelligence are distant seconds to obedience when it comes to the factors that help or hinder an individual's climb up the economic ladder.
What about entrepreneurs?
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Quote:
Class roles have a HUGE impact on our society to this very day. We are no different with the class system today than 500 years ago in England, you have the nobles and the peasants. I was a peasant.
Couldn't agree more.
You know, you could have transferred to a different high school. I considered doing that, I think it costs $50 and you're inelligible for school competitions for a year.
I can't believe such a thing would happen in what is considered a top public school. The school I went to was extremely restrictive in terms of social life, but since I didn't give a shit, that didn't get in my way. I guess I went to a more liberal school than I thought. In the middle of the deep south I wore a shirt that said "atheism, communism, and fee love" on it for weeks at a time and my teachers thought it was cute.
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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haha fee love
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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I did go to other schools... after I got expelled because the principal had some serious beef with me. But since I was in the same area, they were pretty much the same. DC area FTL. It's where they train all the would-be CIA agents, politicians, and military jarheads.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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RE: the female thing. I honestly didn't mean anything by it.. but based on my observations and experiences in school.. the females had it a lot easier than the males. And many of the teachers definitely would pick favorites, which also usually happened to be females. I wasn't trying to draw some kind of definite conclusion, just based on my experience at my school.. in general the females had a lot easier of a time just "drifting" through school.
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Cowgold
Bullshit


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Shroomism]
#7710904 - 12/03/07 01:02 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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The classroom has a natural way of accomodating women over men. Girls are easier to teach because they're not as hyper. The school's answer for hyper kids is drugs.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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I see a million posts in this thread proclaiming vast amounts of intellect. "I was taking college courses in third grade" and such. Is there anybody here who is just a normal schmuck with normal intelligence? I'm smart...but not especially so. I'm probably a 6 on the 1-10 intelligence scale.
I could pull out some bullshit excuse about how I'm too smart for society, but I'm not. The reason that I'm a fucking loser is because I'm lazy as hell and I get bored and frustrated easily. I don't buy the whole "smart people are disenfranchised from society" thing. Smart people who are ambitious make good money, Smart people who are lazy don't make good money. Now, there's nothing wrong with that necessarily. It's your life and you can live it however you want. If you want to bust your ass so you can drive a Lexus...go ahead. If you want to take it easy and live outside of the mainstream...go ahead.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7711480 - 12/03/07 03:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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After reading some more posts in this thread I feel a need to interject further.
I see such pointless contrarianism and rebellion in this thread. The same people who would rail about how society mistreats them because they are "different" are the same people who seem to be viciously attacking people who are different from them. So what if a lot of people decide to become educated, get good jobs, and earn good money? These "successful" people aren't brainwashed, sheep, etc.. They just choose to live different lives than you. If you don't want to be criticized then don't criticize them. Just let everybody live how they want to. Who the fuck cares and why waste time categorizing and de-humanizing people who are different than you? It's just retarded.
You guys scoffing at how America is full of braindead consumers who do nothing but work and buy stuff is the same thing as some rich lawyer yelling "Dirty Hippy!" at you.
Edited by RandalFlagg (12/03/07 03:49 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7711498 - 12/03/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I like to think I'm smart in an intellectual kind of way, but I do have a history of acting rather stupid. So if you measure intelligence by results, I guess I'm pretty dumb. And yet, people who've heard me talk about some of my ideas have often commented on how smart I am. So again, I think there are different types of intelligence, and some are more useful than others.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7711499 - 12/03/07 03:38 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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You know, I've never understood what is meant by a smart or intelligent person. Does smart usually mean well educated? A fast learner? I did well at school but maybe it's because I took it more seriously than some. I guess I just look at it like awareness = intelligence.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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It is difficult to quantify intelligence. For example, my long term memory is awesome. I remember stupid little obscure things that most people would forget. But, my short-term memory is horrible. Somebody can introduce themselves to me and I'll usually forget their name in 20 seconds. My artistic ability is nill. But, my proficiency at technical things is high.
So...who knows? However, I have met people who were much more intelligent than me.
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Quote:
You know, I've never understood what is meant by a smart or intelligent person. Does smart usually mean well educated? A fast learner? I did well at school but maybe it's because I took it more seriously than some. I guess I just look at it like awareness = intelligence.
I think to a certain extent school is more than just taking it seriously or working hard. Education is something that you do outside of school as well as in it if you are truly committed.
That being said, there are plenty of "gifted" or smart children that leave themselves behind because they don't like school. They are like many children, but they have the added guilt of feeling like they're wasting their brains.
"Smart" in an academic sense translates into an awareness type of smart, but you don't have to be an academic to exercise these abilities of awareness. The smartest people are the ones who have a higher "capacity". This is literal. It refers to the raw computational powers of your brain.
For example, a gifted child will know things about language intuitively, and you won't have to teach him/her things like "singulars and plurals" or pronouns, verbs, etc. They will automatically understand and need little to no practice.
A gifted person will hear something once or twice and remember it. A person of average intelligence will need to hear the same set of information around 5 times to remember and apply that information.
A gifted brain will also try more connections between information than a person of average intelligence's brain. So if you give a gifted student 5 "sets" of information that are interrelated, they will try more combinations between these sets to figure out the relationship. This can be reflected in how well you did on the "puzzle tests" in elementary school. It's also related to creativity, because a gifted student will draw connections between things other people have not seen. This is true for people gifted at art, writing, math, social skills, virtually any subject or topic.
There are quantifiable ways of determining this, but in essence I think a "smart" person is a person that is more aware because they have the computational power to make arrangements in their head of reality others would not see. People who remember almost everything of what they have learned and can critically discern between conflicting sets if information have a natural advantage intellectually. This translates into other more important realms, like spiritual awareness.
Unfortunately this is also a class issue, and smart to many people does mean well-educated. I don't think you can be truly well-educated if you aren't smart, but I define well-educated as having a phd, not just a bachelors. Again, that's a class-based distinction that I'm making, most would define well-educated as a self-motivated educator or even someone with a high school diploma.
Many children's intellectual growth is often stunted by a lack of pre-school, lead based paint in houses (HUGE problem), not being able to read by first grade, etc. All of these are issues of class.
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Quote:
The classroom has a natural way of accomodating women over men. Girls are easier to teach because they're not as hyper. The school's answer for hyper kids is drugs.
I think girls do better in school because of the way things are taught, not necessarily because one gender is more "hyper" than the other. I was horribly hyperactive as a child, much worse than any of the boys in my class.
From what I've read on the topic, the capacity for emotional empathy with the teacher is what drives girls to do well in many cases. If they empathize with the teacher, they will listen to them and are more likely to obey.
I don't think little boys get much of an emotional attachment to many of their teachers. Emotional nurturing of boys is way behind girls, unfortunately because there are too many sexist stereotypes about boys' feelings. They don't do as well because they feel unacknowledged or like the teacher is "out to get them" and therefore subconsciously underperform.
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
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Kristian
Stranger

Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 31
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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I'm going to take over the world. I think that will prove I'm pretty smart.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: d33p]
#7714033 - 12/04/07 05:19 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Your family has talked about it quite a bit I assume. Hearing stories for years of such an important event could have easily led to implanted memmories.
Somewhat, but the memories I have don't originate from the family stories. For example, the fire was in the middle of a blizzard, at night. I remember getting pelted with cold rain while being carried by one of my parents (don't know which) as we went door to door trying to find help. I remember looking at the fire thinking it looked like a big upside down orange bowl. I remember the fire fighters coming into the neighbors house, but I don't remember why. (Turns out they were getting hot chocolate.) Even after the fire, I remember everybody going to explore the house to see what was left and I refused to get out of the car because I was afraid that I might step on a hidden switch that would cause the fire to start again. These types of memories are original, not something that was created from listening to people talk about the event years later.
Another example of a very early memory I have is from when I was still in a baby bed (crib). I can remember pulling the dresser drawers open (that were next to the bed) to make a stair case so that I could climb out of bed and get down to the ground. I told my mother about it a few years ago and she said they always wondered how I was managing to get out of the crib when I was a baby. The reason they bought a regular bed for me, when they did, is because they were afraid I was going to fall out of the crib trying to climb out.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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5150
phantom

Registered: 09/01/06
Posts: 5,437
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Pandora]
#7715147 - 12/04/07 12:15 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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if u cant kill yourself successfully i think that qualifies u as an idiot,sorry,i,m glad your over that now though
-------------------- "the way of the warrior is the resolute acceptance of death" Miyamoto Musashi
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Scarfmeister
Thrill Seeker
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 8,127
Loc: The will to power
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kake]
#7715719 - 12/04/07 02:29 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
kake said: I'd like to see the education system revamped by smarter people. This one-size-fits-all scheme is socialistic, not casuistic as it ought to be.
Are you suggesting there are no room for individual development at schools in socialistic countries? Im sure Bush has explained to you all what socialism is.
-------------------- -------------------- We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!
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moosehead
poop deck


Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 9,741
Loc: pnw
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
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I'm not that smart (mensa and shit) and the people I know tend to mirror me.
But in my experience smart people are fucking boring.
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