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InvisibleConservationist
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Registered: 12/02/06
Posts: 435
Society hates smart people
    #7697229 - 11/29/07 11:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Western society is not set up to nurture intelligent children and adults, the way it dotes over athletes and sports figures, especially the outstanding ones. While we have the odd notable personality such as Albert Einstein, we also have many extremely intelligent people working in occupations that are considered among the lowliest, as may be attested by a review of the membership lists of Mensa (the club for the top two percent on intelligence scales).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8778/Why-Intelligent-People-Tend-To-Be-Unhappy

Smart people make the customers look stupid. That's bad for business. Make people feel bad about being smart, put them in shitty jobs, and intimidate them so they don't breed. Oh, our society's failing? MUST NOT BE A CONNECTION, YO.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7697636 - 11/30/07 04:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

there's a book written on this exact topic, which also uses Hemingway as an example. It's called "The Outsider" by Colin Wilson, and I'd definitely suggest it.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7698080 - 11/30/07 09:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Conservationist said:
we also have many extremely intelligent people working in occupations that are considered among the lowliest, as may be attested by a review of the membership lists of Mensa (the club for the top two percent on intelligence scales).





Can you just give me an example of a highly intelligent person working in an occupation considered to be the "lowliest"?

Also, hard work plays a role too. Highly intelligent people who work very hard and are motivated tend to become physicians, lawyers etc. People who seem to be socially fit, and highly functional IMO.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7698176 - 11/30/07 09:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

If true, what do you suggest government should do about it? This is the Political Discussion forum, remember.





Phred


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Invisiblekake
The answer to1984 is 1776.
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Phred]
    #7698190 - 11/30/07 09:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'd like to see the education system revamped by smarter people. This one-size-fits-all scheme is socialistic, not casuistic as it ought to be.


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The answer to 1984 is 1776.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kotik]
    #7698211 - 11/30/07 10:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
there's a book written on this exact topic, which also uses Hemingway as an example. It's called "The Outsider" by Colin Wilson, and I'd definitely suggest it.




Thanks for the tip. That's going on my "List of Books that I need to read" right next to The Lucifer Principle.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: badchad]
    #7698219 - 11/30/07 10:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:

Can you just give me an example of a highly intelligent person working in an occupation considered to be the "lowliest"?





Computer Programmers. We're treated like slaves by 5 different bosses who tell us all to do completely different things and then repremand us for doing what the other boss says and then repremand us for not getting our work done because we've been so god damn confused.

IMO the biggest retards are the ones that backstab the most and sabbotage people they know are smarter and worthier of higher paying jobs.... to get where they are because they know they can't compete on an even playing field. These people often succeed.

I don't think there's anyone really to blame or the gov't should do anything about it. It's a dog eat dog world and I firmly believe in Karma.

As far as doctors, lawyers, etc... These people are pretty smart..but smart but it doesn't mean they are wise. I find that the higher and more technical a degree someone has, the less common sense they have in other places. The more time you study books the less time you have at dealing with people.

It's always a trade off. If you spend all your time studying one subject (computers, how to socialize, medicine, literature, etc) your knowledge in other subjects lack. Plus "SMART" is a subjective word. Are we talking about intelligence? Wisdom? Street smarts? book smarts? etc?

I liken human development to developing a character in dungeons and dragons (yea I said it!). When you roll your dice, get your points, you have to chose where to put those points.. strength, intelligence, widsom, charisma.. the more you put into one category the more the other categories suffer... the same way with humans.

Like I said... tough call because SMART is pretty subjective.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kake]
    #7698235 - 11/30/07 10:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kake said:
I'd like to see the education system revamped by smarter people. This one-size-fits-all scheme is socialistic, not casuistic as it ought to be.




oligarchy!

That's not one-size fits all is it?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: kotik]
    #7698238 - 11/30/07 10:11 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
there's a book written on this exact topic, which also uses Hemingway as an example. It's called "The Outsider" by Colin Wilson, and I'd definitely suggest it.




Anyone have an online copy?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: trendal]
    #7698292 - 11/30/07 10:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm still not understanding how this is a political issue. Would someone like to take a stab at explaining that to me?



Phred


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Phred]
    #7698298 - 11/30/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Criticizing a perceived social trend in society is seen as being "political" by a lot of people. I tend to disagree however.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #7698307 - 11/30/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Just because it doesn't deal with the government doesn't mean it's politics. Society has its own politics as well.

Dictionary.com has many definitions for "POLITICS"

* use of intrigue or strategy in obtaining any position of power or control, as in business, university, etc.

* (initial capital letter, italics) a treatise (4th century b.c.) by Aristotle, dealing with the structure, organization, and administration of the state, esp. the city-state as known in ancient Greece.

* The often internally conflicting interrelationships among people in a society.

* The art or science of government or governing, especially the governing of a political entity, such as a nation, and the administration and control of its internal and external affairs.

While most of these definitions deal with government/state affairs, many do not. I personally think politics means thinking or behaving in a way to manipulate power, whether it be in government, societity, school, etc.

I think a thread regarding a trend of society to control a smaller group within socierty DEFINATELY belongs here.

That's just my opinion.

I mean... For those of you think this thread doesn't belong here, If there was a topic here about GREENPEACE trying to convince people to use less gas, I get some of you wouldn't have a problem with it being here, and that post wouldn't even have anything to do with Law/Government itself.

Now if this topic were just about one person whining about how people playing water cooler politics in their office is pissing them off, I might object, but this guy's talking about a trend of greater society.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: BrAiN]
    #7698397 - 11/30/07 11:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This isn't politics, it's sociology.




Phred


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Phred]
    #7698755 - 11/30/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

There are parts of sociology which can be politics. I mean.. hell... the ditionary even says one of the definitions of politics is:


" use of intrigue or strategy in obtaining any position of power or control, as in business, university, etc. "

I think this description nails this topic right on the head.

Just because it's sociology doesn't mean it can't be politics and just because it's politics doesn't mean it can't be sociology. The only other more apt place for this would be the pub and I'm sure this guy is looking for some mature perspectives on this. You stick it in the pub and you'll just get tons of one-liners and not really much of a discussion.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: BrAiN]
    #7698769 - 11/30/07 12:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Fuck, man. I majored in Sociology, and half the shit we talked about in class was politics.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: BrAiN]
    #7698782 - 11/30/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This has nothing to do with the "use of intrigue or strategy in obtaining any position of power or control", this is a link to a sociologist giving his theory on why he believes more intelligent people are unhappy than non-intelligent people. It has as little relevance to politics as would some other sociologist theorizing that beautiful people are less happy than plain people, or that short people are happier than tall people.

Even the sociologist who wrote this speculative article doesn't blame the (alleged) unhappiness of intelligent people on any government or even societal policy decisions.

As I said -- this is sociology, not politics.




Phred


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Phred]
    #7698809 - 11/30/07 12:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I disagree. The post originally had to do with unintelligent people trying to control smart people.

People trying to control each other?

Sounds like sociology sure.. Also sounds like.. hmm.. POLITICS?


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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
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Registered: 03/23/06
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7699915 - 11/30/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Einstein was a charlatan. Look at this page
http://www.geocities.com/sciliterature/RelativityDebates.htm
look at the links and download the pdf files and read them.


I've got two books by Bjerknes. He doesn't seem to distinguish between the theories of Lorentz and Poincare and Einstein, etc. They are slightly different. There's a lot of evidence that Einstein was deceptive and didn't give credit to his sources. Gerber and Hilbert apparently contributed to the General theory of relativity, but Einstein never gave them any credit.
http://home.comcast.net/~xtxinc/prioritymyth.htm


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InvisibleLuddite
I watch Fox News
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Registered: 03/23/06
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Conservationist]
    #7699967 - 11/30/07 05:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

If you have above average intelligence then you will have trouble getting along with people who are average or below average. I knew this a long time ago. If you work in a job that requires a lot of intelligence and/or education, like a college degree, you'll work around people who are smart like you and you won't be hearing stupid sex stories and other decadent BS like that. There seems to be a skism in society between the blue collar and white collar workers. If you work around blue collar workers, you'll see that many of them are decadent low lives like the type of people you see on drug forums, like at the shroomery or wetdreams.ws. There are more civilized blue collar workers, but many of them play the niggardly game of lowering themselves and others around them, the same way slugs and worms are ugly so you don't eat them and leave them alone. Construction is full of niggardly people, both white niggers, black niggers and niggers of all races.


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: Society hates smart people [Re: Luddite]
    #7700067 - 11/30/07 05:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You better hope people know what that word means...


In any case, im the same way. Growing up, i was put into a "gifted" program, but it never really went any further than that. call it vain, but i know i think on a higher level than my peers. All my life, i have had poor grades and have been very lazy. looking back, i dont think that society provides for people of higher higher intelligence than others. granted, i could have made the most of it by not being lazy and applying myself, but i was always bored. boredom by the mundane stuff that everyone else finds challenging, and i think thats why smarter people tend to be neglected. they are seen more as merely "that lazy kid"

i think that if you are determined to have a higher iq (which by no means says you're intelligent) you should be given special opportunities throughout youth. if it turns out that you arent that smart, they can drop you. We need more imagination in our learning, more creativity. and writing a creative essay doesnt cut it.

im rambling, so im gonna close.


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[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

READ DAMNIT! [/quote]


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