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OfflineBrAiN
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last night's republican debate
    #7693859 - 11/29/07 07:26 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Was the first time I've ever watched a primary debate for more than a minute... only because I wanted to see what Ron Paul had to say.

I need some toilet paper because all I heard was a buncf of diharrea being spewed out of people's mouths.

I thought the Democrats were the ones that were the masters of dodging questions and hearing only what they wanted to hear. THere was a point last night where I just busted out laughing because it looked like Mitt Romney and Guliani had cotton in their ears. They didn't answer a god damn question directly.

The people who asked the youtube questions were in the audience and many were asked (in the middle of the debate) if they felt the candidates had answered their questions. Not a single one was satisfied, except for maybe when Fred Thompson spoke. I hate Thompson but I gotta say.. the man at least can answer a fucking question and be honest without any fear of offending anyone. The man just doesn't give a fuUUuUUck.

As much as I love Ron Paul and hope he wins, for those of you who think he has a chance, last night just demonstrated how much you all are living in a dream world. They barely gave him ANY time to talk at all. As long as people aren't going to hear what Paul has to say there's no way a bunch of redneck ass republicans are going to vote for him.

He sparred a little with Mccain last night, but if you're not out for a massive pissing contest every night, there's no way you're going to be president.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: BrAiN]
    #7694118 - 11/29/07 09:22 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:

As much as I love Ron Paul and hope he wins, for those of you who think he has a chance, last night just demonstrated how much you all are living in a dream world. They barely gave him ANY time to talk at all. As long as people aren't going to hear what Paul has to say there's no way a bunch of redneck ass republicans are going to vote for him.

He sparred a little with Mccain last night, but if you're not out for a massive pissing contest every night, there's no way you're going to be president.




Spoken just like a person who sees only what the MSM wants them to see.:nonono:

Get out there where the action is happening! From everything I have seen, Paul supporters are going to dominate the turn out in the primaries.

It was like Paul said in the speech I posted in my debate day report-

"They don't know your out there yet."


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7694144 - 11/29/07 09:31 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

No .. spoken like a person who knows that MOST of the country goes bywhat the MSM only wants them to see.

SO when Ron Paul doesnt get elected I can laugh at you all and go HA HA and you won't mind?

Don't blame me for telling the truth.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: BrAiN]
    #7694147 - 11/29/07 09:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

As much as I love Ron Paul and hope he wins, for those of you who think he has a chance, last night just demonstrated how much you all are living in a dream world.




I came away with the exact same impression.

Quote:

Spoken just like a person who sees only what the MSM wants them to see.:nonono:




Paul got maybe five minutes of air time, and one of the questions they asked him was along the lines of "Everybody knows you are unelectable, so why are you here?  Are you going to run as an Independent?" (paraphrased)

Nothing against Paul; for those of us that saw all the candidates together for the first time, CNN did an excellent job of marginalizing Paul and Tancredo.

Based upon what CNN presented, BrAiN's observations (that I quoted above) are completely accurate.  Imagine what the majority of people came away with, regarding Paul, that knew nothing about him.  Not much, unless they happened to catch his 30-second commercial (which was the best one, unfortunately buried at the end of the "debate").


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: Seuss]
    #7694221 - 11/29/07 09:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

For those of us who have watched every single minute of every republican debate, that happens every time, and yet Paul's growth is exponential.

There is more happening out there promoting Paul and his message then just what the MSM shows.

Meet up groups are out there daily across the nation promoting Paul through a variety of activities and media means, there are over 40,000 videos promoting Paul and his message on the internet. Paul is reaching voters and gaining exponential growth, through his supporters activities which are making up for the lack of coverage by the media.

You should catch the buzz this morning at the Ron Paul forums after that debate ( over 4,000 active members)

They are more fired up then ever after that marginalizing debate to donate More and do even MORE!

Reports are coming in that after the debate last night, new members are signing up to meet up groups in droves and inactive members are now signing up for meet up events because the debate marginalization of Paul, finally pissed them off enough to get out there and do something about it.

This is weird to me how some of you Paul supporters here watched the debate and became discouraged and yet others elsewhere got FIRED UP to take down Goliath, and are further encouraged.

I organized a sign waving on Black Friday outside of a Sarasota mall to catch the x-mass shoppers.

We had over 100 signs at all of the entrances into the mall and lining the streets to the mall. There were about 25 of us. We were waving signs, passing out literature and DVDs, had people pulling over to buy RP T-shirts and asking about Paul, and easily received over 100 honks and shout outs of "he's got my vote", for RP from cars driving by and we exposed Paul to at least 10,000 cars on that day.

This type of activity is happening all over the nation every weekend.

As it has been said, " The rEVOLution, will not be televised."

The MSM coverage is what is a diluted (dilusional)version of the REALITY brewing out there.

Do not forget that he will probably have a better fund raising quarter then any other Republican, his polling numbers are consitantly on the rise, and that is just with registered Republicans who voted in the last primaries.

The new first time voter registries, those who recently converted from DEM, Independent and 3rd parties are not be reflected in the "scientific polls"


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7694238 - 11/29/07 10:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Ron Paul has the most active supports, I'll give you that. They're some of the most passionate people out there.

But I just don't have a lot of faith in AMerica. We're a country of lazy idiots that fear TOO much change.

Unfortunately, passionate people are a minotiry in America.

Personally I think he'll put up a hell of a fight and his numbers in the POLLS WILL increase. I see a lot of small tier candidates dropping out of the race way before him. Hell.. in the end I see it all between him, Romney, and Gulini. I'd bet Mccain would even conceed even before Paul does. If PAUL is the nominee for the republicans going up against a democrat he would win, but that's the problem. HE HAS TO GET THE NOMINATION FIRST. If it were up to the entire population to pick the republican candidate, Paul would get it... but in the end you're asking CONSERVATIVES to pick a candidate to represent them.

True, he'd probably be the ONE candidate that could easily beat Hillary (or Obama), but there's no way the republicans will pick a candidate that doesnt't wanna KILL ALL DA BROWN PPLZ.

This is why I think Guliani will take the entire race.

Because the Republicans recognize that they need to lure democrats into voting republican NOW MORE THAN EVER after all the damage Bush has done to the image of the republican party. Paul and Guliani are the only people who can take enough votes away from the democrats to win it all next November because they're the two republicans that seem to make the most comprimises on what are generally seen as the conservative values of today.

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: BrAiN]
    #7694320 - 11/29/07 10:32 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I came away from last night's debates feeling pretty similar as to how I felt after the most recent Dem debates...that America is at least 5 years away from a decent presidential candidate that has a shot at winning.

Both parties have are appeasing, centrist, corrupt, and overly bureacratic. The same tired issues get flogged over and over that neither party can do anything about. Republicans are not going to solve the illegal immigration crisis. Democrats are not going to get us out of Iraq any sooner. I get the overall impression that the status quo is going to be maintained. Both parties will continue to tax the beejeeezus out of us, no big rules will get changed, no progress will be made. Just four more years of crap. I can only pray that whoever gets elected won't get us involved in another war.

Both Kuccinich and Paul are radical enough for me to believe that they would manage to break the mould and get the country going in a new direction, but I am 100% certain Kuccinich will not be on the ticket and 80% certain that Ron Paul will not be on the ticket.

Rudy vs. Hillary. BARF.


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:hst:
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but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: BrAiN]
    #7694382 - 11/29/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
As much as I love Ron Paul and hope he wins, for those of you who think he has a chance, last night just demonstrated how much you all are living in a dream world. They barely gave him ANY time to talk at all.




So what? I can understand that when the only information you have on what is occurring is through the mainstream media, it wouldn't look good. Thing is, what was once standard regarding the media's role in the elections is horribly outdated and false today.

There are other ways through which information is obtained and exchanged. Ron Paul's support doesn't register in the MSM because it is not OF the mainstream media. Clearly, they all recognized it when Ron Paul's supporters worked together to translate the support into something that would register, and the effect that 11/5 had for Ron Paul's recognition in the MSM was substantial - it changed everything.

The MSM can't keep up. How many minutes a candidate is given in a choreographed debate is pretty irrelevant. There is a difference between flying under the radar and a dreamworld. The tools with which the MSM obtains information regarding candidates are clumsy artifacts of an age where the exchange of information was largely centralized.

The support is there. Its flying by night in traditional terms, which would definitely lead those who look through the lens handed to them to question its existence. You're judging too soon. I'd recommend waiting a month, and keep your eye on 12/16, as well. :sherlock:

If you really love Ron Paul and hope he wins, maybe you'd consider donating on 12/16? Or tomorrow? Or even today. :hehehe: Ron Paul's supporters have hope, but they are working within their means to make it happen. :smile:

Quote:


As long as people aren't going to hear what Paul has to say there's no way a bunch of redneck ass republicans are going to vote for him.




He uses the time he does receive in these debates exceptionally well. In fact, wasn't it that first debate, where he challenged Rudy's falsehoods, that really got everything started? You are right in stating "as long as people aren't going to hear what he has to say", but the thing is, they are, and they are loving it, and they are very motivated by it. :headbang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: BrAiN]
    #7694389 - 11/29/07 10:58 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
No .. spoken like a person who knows that MOST of the country goes bywhat the MSM only wants them to see.




MOST of the country, that goes by what the MSM wants them to see, doesn't participate in the primary elections.

When Ron Paul starts winning and placing very well in these first primaries, that changes everything regarding what the MSM "wants" them to see. I, for one, don't see a conspiracy of what the MSM "wants" people to see - it is only a question of what the MSM sees. :wink:


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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: Seuss]
    #7694401 - 11/29/07 11:05 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
I came away with the exact same impression.




I was personally expecting to see him receive more time, especially considering his increase in polls, coupled with the support and recognition he has been receiving in the MSM lately.

I was disappointed, too, but not because it meant that Ron Paul's chances are that of a dreamworld - because I had hoped the MSM would adapt to change quicker. This wasn't the case, but I'm not too disappointed, because they are dinosaurs anyways. :smirk:

Quote:


Imagine what the majority of people came away with, regarding Paul, that knew nothing about him.  Not much, unless they happened to catch his 30-second commercial (which was the best one, unfortunately buried at the end of the "debate").




Is this any different than any other debate he has been in, really? I think too much stock is being put into the worth/relevance of these debates.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: BrAiN]
    #7694417 - 11/29/07 11:11 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Brain, you brought it down to Rudy, Mitt, and Paul in the end.

I've been watching this sucker like a ten eyed Hawk.

Start paying attention to the massive positive PUSH the MSM is giving to Huckabee? Something new is up.

Do you know he overtook the lead in Iowa from Mitt just a few days ago?

Fox is now turning on Rudy too.

Thompson has been dropping like a rock, yet he is leading SC. That is an important primary state.

There is still many more months to go and the Republican race is yet up for grabs the way I see it. The field is slop.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: BrAiN]
    #7694430 - 11/29/07 11:18 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
But I just don't have a lot of faith in AMerica. We're a country of lazy idiots that fear TOO much change.




We're also a country of people who are extremely dissatisfied with not being represented in politics (their own fault, of course :smirk:) and are angry with anything identified as status quo in politics. This is repeatedly reported upon, each time with the statement that this "really makes the elections up for grabs".

Quote:


HE HAS TO GET THE NOMINATION FIRST. If it were up to the entire population to pick the republican candidate, Paul would get it... but in the end you're asking CONSERVATIVES to pick a candidate to represent them.




Indeed, he does have to get the nomination first, and it has to be Republicans that select him. This is fully realized by both the official campaign and the grassroots organization, and I think it is entirely plausible that he will be selected, especially as the strength of his support become well-apparent to all, coupled with the fact that he basically the only conservative running for the Republicans.

Quote:


True, he'd probably be the ONE candidate that could easily beat Hillary (or Obama), but there's no way the republicans will pick a candidate that doesnt't wanna KILL ALL DA BROWN PPLZ.




I think this is an over-simplication of the Republican party and its interests. First and foremost, they want to be elected, and the American people want out of Iraq.

Quote:


This is why I think Guliani will take the entire race.




He's still carrying himself on name recognition, and he's starting to deflate. I'm willing to bet that Ron Paul steals his support more than anyone....

Quote:


Because the Republicans recognize that they need to lure democrats into voting republican NOW MORE THAN EVER after all the damage Bush has done to the image of the republican party. Paul and Guliani are the only people who can take enough votes away from the democrats to win it all next November because they're the two republicans that seem to make the most comprimises on what are generally seen as the conservative values of today.




Yes, but what you are neglecting is the fact that Giuliani is running on nearly all of the same positions that Bush has been pissing off the American people with.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7694434 - 11/29/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

This is weird to me how some of you Paul supporters here watched the debate and became discouraged and yet others elsewhere got FIRED UP to take down Goliath, and are further encouraged.




For me, I live in another country (as you know) and I don't have a TV, so the majority of my information comes from online sources. This was my first opportunity to see Ron Paul through Zappa's eyes, so to speak. There is a massive disconnect between the hype on the internet and what I saw last night.

Don't misread me... I'm not discouraged... rather, I am shocked at how much distance there is between the front and the back of the pack. I'm not saying that the outcome is set, that Paul is unelectable, or making any predictions at all. However, the hill that I always thought Paul would have to overcome appears to be more mountain sized.

Based upon what I saw last night on CNN, I understand where Zappa is coming from with his "there is no way he can win" standpoint. I'm not claiming right or wrong, simply that I understand why he would make the statement.

A couple thousand people at a rally is not going to win the primary. Paul needs approximately 35000 votes, per state, to win. It can be done, but, I think it is going to be a much more difficult task than I had been imagining, based upon the information I had gathered online.

Quote:

He uses the time he does receive in these debates exceptionally well.




I only have "debate" (not plural) to go off of, but I would give it a 50/50. His first few answers were pretty rough, and one went pretty far off target. Towards the end, he got better. His answer on the conspiracy question was one of the better replies from any candidate in the debate on any question. In the beginning, I felt like he was trying to cram as much into an answer as he could, because he knew he wasn't going to get any time. Had the playing field been equal and CNN given every candidate equal time, I think he would have come off much better than he did. Unfortunately, CNN was busy selling their favorite pairing, Rudy vs Hillary, and had little interest in Paul or Tancredo.

> When Ron Paul starts winning and placing very well in these first primaries

Placing well isn't going to cut it. The cards are stacked against him; he has to win before the media will take him seriously. It sucks, but that is the way it is. (I would love to be wrong on this one!)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: gluke bastid]
    #7694444 - 11/29/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
The same tired issues get flogged over and over that neither party can do anything about.




Are you sure? Other Republican candidates are now talking about eliminating the IRS, for example.

Quote:


I get the overall impression that the status quo is going to be maintained.




From what? The status quo perpetuating itself? Of course it'd look that way from within the status quo, thankfully, even that is changing as Ron Paul acts as a catalyst for change. :smile:

Quote:


Both parties will continue to tax the beejeeezus out of us, no big rules will get changed, no progress will be made. Just four more years of crap. I can only pray that whoever gets elected won't get us involved in another war.




Or you could actually participate and support the one candidate whose very presence creates progress. What have you done to participate?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7694467 - 11/29/07 11:30 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

> Start paying attention to the massive positive PUSH the MSM is giving to Huckabee?

Doesn't surprise me. Huckabee is a non-evil Hillary minus the skirt. In other words, Huckabee likes to spend my money to take care of me according to his moral values. However, I think Huckabee's motivation is from a desire to do good where Hillary's motivation comes from the need for power. Both enjoy spending other's money and have no sense of fiscal responsibility.

Fred Thompson was the media's fall back guy should they run into problems with Rudy or Mitt. Unfortunately for Fred, the media discovered that he is about as fun to watch as a rotting corpse. This leaves Huckabee or Hunter, and it is pretty clear which the media has chosen.


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InvisibleBIGSWANG
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: Seuss]
    #7694497 - 11/29/07 11:39 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

i think huckabee was great last night, and he will be getting my vote if he wins the republican primary


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7694526 - 11/29/07 11:49 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Other Republican candidates are now talking about eliminating the IRS, for example.




Yeah, and creating a national sales tax. I don't support it. Nor do I think for all their talk will it actually happen.

Quote:


From what? The status quo perpetuating itself? Of course it'd look that way from within the status quo, thankfully, even that is changing as Ron Paul acts as a catalyst for change. :smile:




Did you read my post? I agree that both RP and Kuccinich are radical enough to believe that they would make some pretty big changes. But I don't think either one is going to be elected. And you won't be able to convince me. Sorry. 

The frontrunners for both the Democrats and the republicans represent familiarity, repetetion of past maneuevers, and absolutely no challenge to the status quo. The fact that Obama and Clinton are not white men is totally irellevant in my opinion. There isn't the faintest drop of what I consider to be radicalism or courage in either one of them.

Quote:

Or you could actually participate and support the one candidate whose very presence creates progress. What have you done to participate?




You mean Kuccinich? I vowed after the great leftist swindle of 2004 to never give any money to the DNC. But you are probably referring to Paul. I have done nothing to support Ron Paul, and I am damn proud to say so. Any candidate who thinks that he will get any of my money or my time, that I could be instead giving directly to the homeless vets littered throughout my city can go straight to hell. My idea of making a difference is as localized as possible. The one thing I do agree with Paul about is that he is a federalist and he wants action to get local. Beyond that, nothing really.


--------------------
:hst:
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but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7694563 - 11/29/07 12:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

We're also a country of people who are extremely dissatisfied with not being represented in politics (their own fault, of course :smirk:) and are angry with anything identified as status quo in politics. This is repeatedly reported upon, each time with the statement that this "really makes the elections up for grabs".




I agree but I think these people who are increasingly being dissatisfied aren't going to register republican so they won't be able to decide who the republican candidate is..

Again.. like I said.. Ron Paul vs a Democrat.. no problem..

Ron Paul being given the nomination for the republcans.. problem. I just don't see it happening as much as I want to be wrong.

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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: BrAiN]
    #7694569 - 11/29/07 12:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

RON PAUL IS GREAT, AND HE HAS GREAT SUPPORTERS

but he wont win :nonono:


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Re: last night's republican debate [Re: Seuss]
    #7694576 - 11/29/07 12:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for clearing up where you were coming from Seuss. I understand all to well. It doesn't discourage me either. It is more reason for me to keep my ass out there spreading his message.


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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