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Spiritual Seeker
Nothing Matters



Registered: 05/12/07
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Christianity is actually right.........in a way
#7693166 - 11/28/07 11:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Is it just me? Or is Christianity basically a metaphorical form of buddhism?
It seems like a religion that has ALOT of stuff that makes sense.....but somewhere along the lines it turned into a "Harry Potter" book, along with multiple scare tatics.
-------------------- "Nothing in the world is a gift. Whatever there is to learn has to be learned the hard way." -Don juan
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
#7693188 - 11/28/07 11:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is pretty much how I prefer to read the Bible.
There's nothing wrong with the Bible or Christianity as a whole, they've just got a few really embarrassing adherents who have no mind for sublety.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (11/28/07 11:20 PM)
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Rahz
Alive Again


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Posts: 9,230
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
#7693305 - 11/29/07 12:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think there is some truth in it, though I think the Christ concept goes beyond a singular source. Buddhism may be metaphorical as well.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
#7693638 - 11/29/07 04:29 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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More and more I see the Bible as inconsistent in the beliefs that it serves up. One minute God is telling the people to wipe out other tribes of people and to enslave the survivors, the next minute it is talking about love they neighbor. I personally think that it is horse shit for the most part. There are good ideas, but for every good idea there is loads of violence and superstition. It is conflicted and crazy like the people who tend to expound it's virtues. I am really glad that most "good" Christians lack the integrity to give it no more than lip service. Faithful Christians are a threat to mankind.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7693660 - 11/29/07 05:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
More and more I see the Bible as inconsistent in the beliefs that it serves up. One minute God is telling the people to wipe out other tribes of people and to enslave the survivors, the next minute it is talking about love they neighbor. I personally think that it is horse lalala for the most part. There are good ideas, but for every good idea there is loads of violence and superstition. It is conflicted and crazy like the people who tend to expound it's virtues. I am really glad that most "good" Christians lack the integrity to give it no more than lip service. Faithful Christians are a threat to mankind.
Man can do violence to others under statutes of justice but for God to kill anyone or despise anyone who is evil, that to man is unnaceptable. To think that God actually has feelings and reason and holds men responsible for their actions is of the most abominable thoughts to mankind.
I assure you, just as it has been proven to myself time and again, whatever contradiction you find comes from a lack of understanding on your part, and often from simple minded reasoning and minds brainwashing and blinded by presuppositions inherited from their culture from a small child. So much simple minded reasoning as to not discern between evil:calamity and evil: lack of moral rectiude. In light of this, it astounds me when such people can criticize Christians for not thinking when they do not use one of the most basic linguistic methods of discernment that is taught to people in grade school.
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Silversoul
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7694244 - 11/29/07 10:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I love that this justification of violence happens to be on your 666th post.
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Spiritual Seeker
Nothing Matters



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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Silversoul]
#7694370 - 11/29/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: I love that this justification of violence happens to be on your 666th post.
ROFL good eye!
-------------------- "Nothing in the world is a gift. Whatever there is to learn has to be learned the hard way." -Don juan
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
#7694721 - 11/29/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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actually that was my 665th post I believe.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7694905 - 11/29/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Satan's after you
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7697251 - 11/29/07 11:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes he is, but God is my salvation and he will strengthen me to overcome all evil.
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7697274 - 11/29/07 11:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I thought we chased all you types away.....
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   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: SoY]
#7697313 - 11/30/07 12:10 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
simple minded reasoning and minds brainwashing and blinded by presuppositions inherited from their culture from a small child
...Is the reason that you cannot see the contradictions and paradoxes associated with your chosen superstition. You ignore the fallacies that discredit your religion yet try to debunk others. When trying to debate you use circular reasoning and erroneous logic to *prove* your point.
Quote:
To think that God actually has feelings and reason and holds men responsible for their actions is of the most abominable thoughts to mankind.
Do you understand how this statement debases the entire religion?
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   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: SoY]
#7697320 - 11/30/07 12:13 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: More and more I see the Bible as inconsistent in the beliefs that it serves up. One minute God is telling the people to wipe out other tribes of people and to enslave the survivors, the next minute it is talking about love they neighbor. I personally think that it is horse shit for the most part. There are good ideas, but for every good idea there is loads of violence and superstition. It is conflicted and crazy like the people who tend to expound it's virtues. I am really glad that most "good" Christians lack the integrity to give it no more than lip service. Faithful Christians are a threat to mankind.
Excellent post!
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   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: SoY]
#7697486 - 11/30/07 01:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote:
simple minded reasoning and minds brainwashing and blinded by presuppositions inherited from their culture from a small child
...Is the reason that you cannot see the contradictions and paradoxes associated with your chosen superstition. You ignore the fallacies that discredit your religion yet try to debunk others. When trying to debate you use circular reasoning and erroneous logic to *prove* your point.
I do not wish to address such a vague attack. You say I use circular reasoning but you don't give an example.
Quote:
Quote:
To think that God actually has feelings and reason and holds men responsible for their actions is of the most abominable thoughts to mankind.
Do you understand how this statement debases the entire religion? 
No, I do not. It shows how hypocritical and ignorant men are.
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soulcircus
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way *DELETED* [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7697639 - 11/30/07 04:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by soulcircusReason for deletion: .
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: soulcircus]
#7697859 - 11/30/07 08:00 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
who's to say all the far out stuff aren't heavy visionary mystical experiences..?
Nobody can tell for sure.  But even if they are, they're personal heavy mystical experiences.  And it's all good as they remain private.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7698143 - 11/30/07 09:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
To think that God actually has feelings and reason and holds men responsible for their actions is of the most abominable thoughts to mankind.
Without reason, there is no justice. How can a just supreme being not posses reason? If you stand by your affirmation that god does not utilize reason, then, logically *he* is incapable of being just and/or competent and is not worthy of worship. Your belief that god does not have feelings is in direct conflict with your holy text. God is jealous, wrathful, compassionate, and all-loving. Did you forget about all that?
Quote:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
--Epicurus
Quote:
To think that God actually has feelings and reason and holds men responsible for their actions is of the most abominable thoughts to mankind.
Your statement that god does not hold men accountable for their actions negates the entire notion of "do as I say or you will burn in hell," thus your concept of Christianity is once again incongruent to that of the bible. I can go on and on but I have realized long ago the futility of arguing with someone who's reasoning skills match that of a 7 year old.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: SoY]
#7698156 - 11/30/07 09:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jonathan_206 said:
Quote:
jonathan_206 said: To think that God actually has feelings and reason and holds men responsible for their actions is of the most abominable thoughts to mankind.
Quote:
SoY said: Do you understand how this statement debases the entire religion?
No, I do not. It shows how hypocritical and ignorant men are.
Yes it does.
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   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
#7698279 - 11/30/07 10:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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So you compare it to Buddhism to justify it being more correct???
Fuck all religion!
Why have a crutch for reality?
I'm just thrown in this crazy soup the same as everyone else, we don't need to formulate answers to the greatest questions just so that we feel we understand our surroundings!?
Correct me, if I am wrong but thats all religion appears to be? Its answers from humans stemming from humans. What human has knowledge of the divine? Honestly? Mohamed, Jesus, Buddha or the million other prophets that have given a model for life?
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: SoY]
#7699032 - 11/30/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
jonathan_206 said: To think that God actually has feelings and reason and holds men responsible for their actions is of the most abominable thoughts to mankind.
Quote: SoY said: Do you understand how this statement debases the entire religion? 
No, I do not. It shows how hypocritical and ignorant men are.
Yes it does. 
I hope you are saying you realize how incorrectly you have read my statement.
Quote:
Your statement that god does not hold men accountable for their actions
I said the opposite..pay closer attention
Edited by jonathan_206 (11/30/07 01:35 PM)
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7699089 - 11/30/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote:
who's to say all the far out stuff aren't heavy visionary mystical experiences..?
Nobody can tell for sure.  But even if they are, they're personal heavy mystical experiences.  And it's all good as they remain private. 
It's very interesting how you stated objectively that no one can know objectively.
And then you stated out of your lack of knowledge, that if they can be known, they must be personally subjective...
It is quite clear to me that certain persons like to state everything is subjective as it suits them, and objective when it suits them.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7699444 - 11/30/07 03:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jonathan_206 said: It's very interesting how you stated objectively that no one can know objectively.
And it's not interesting at all (I'd call it quite dull) how you fail to reason and understand what I have to say. Of course no one can know objective. This doesn't mean that I'm not entitled to my views, and the fact that it is all subjective is self implied. Show me exactly where did my statement seem to you as being told from an objective point of view?
Quote:
And then you stated out of your lack of knowledge, that if they can be known, they must be personally subjective...
Personally subjective?  Doesn't it scratch your ear? Make more sense next time.
Quote:
It is quite clear to me that certain persons like to state everything is subjective as it suits them, and objective when it suits them.
No, "when it suits them" suits those persons whose lives are not in their hands anymore, so they have to find excuses for what they do.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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vaportrail
upandaway



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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7699467 - 11/30/07 03:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Is it just me? Or is Christianity basically a metaphorical form of buddhism?
I wouldn't put it that way, it sounds like Christianity is based on Buddhism! But yes, they overlap at the core. Just as your heart loves the same as any other, so does their religion. It's all about seeing past the veneer.
-------------------- and the hippos were boiled in their tanks
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crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex


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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7699477 - 11/30/07 03:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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One of the fundamental differences is Monotheism Vs Pantheism. This distinction is sometimes misunderstood, Pan Theism means All God, Mono Theism means One God. The western concepts, the "God of Abraham", the Jewish God, creates the world but is not part of it and does not enter it, and it is made very, very clear how seperate he is from the world. In Buddhism and Hinduism Sikhism Jainism most of the eastern faiths, Pantheists, All is God, God literally is the sum of the world and then some.
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crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex


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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: crumblebum]
#7699502 - 11/30/07 03:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I suppose I should have been a little more clear, panteism vs monotheism is often used to mean faiths that have many gods vs faiths that have a single god, and while that works, and you won't find monotheists with multiple gods (usually) most panteists, at the core, believe in a single true god who manifests in a bajillion ways. You don't HAVE to believe in multiple gods to be a pantheist
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: MushroomTrip]
#7700089 - 11/30/07 05:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Show me exactly where did my statement seem to you as being told from an objective point of view?
Quote:
Nobody can tell for sure. 
objective statement.
Quote:
But even if they are, they're personal heavy mystical experiences. 
objective statement.
No matter what you do you cannot avoid making objective statements. You cannot assert ANYTHING AT ALL without an objective. You want to talk about dull?...
If I say anything IS this, or IS that, that is objective. Even if you state a subjective, it requires an objective before it.
SO whenever you think you're saying something completely subjective, think again, because it requires an objective before it. It's the same logical fallacy over and over and over.
Quote:
Of course no one can know objective. This doesn't mean that I'm not entitled to my views, and the fact that it is all subjective is self implied.
Your views require objectives in order to assert anything. You cannot state them as objectives, but then say it's all subjectively implied. It's either objective or not.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7700182 - 11/30/07 06:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
No matter what you do you cannot avoid making objective statements. You cannot assert ANYTHING AT ALL without an objective. You want to talk about dull?...
If I say anything IS this, or IS that, that is objective. Even if you state a subjective, it requires an objective before it.
SO whenever you think you're saying something completely subjective, think again, because it requires an objective before it. It's the same logical fallacy over and over and over.
This lacks of any coherence. With other words you said: everything you say is objective, because ______________, therefore everything is objective. The "objective" you're referring to is nothing but a mental construct, a filter. And as any filter, it makes your perception limited, therefore prejudiced. Voila subjectiveness.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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2FiNiTe
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Spiritual Seeker]
#7700342 - 11/30/07 06:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Christianity=Egyptian=Buddhism=Vedic=every other religion there is. Its simple...religion is a tool created by those in power to control those who aren't.
Spirituality is the way to go, I'd imagine if god gave us these amazing minds and brains he at least wanted us to think for ourselves.
-------------------- "Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living." General Omar N. Bradley
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: crumblebum]
#7700786 - 11/30/07 08:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
One of the fundamental differences is Monotheism Vs Pantheism. This distinction is sometimes misunderstood, Pan Theism means All God, Mono Theism means One God. The western concepts, the "God of Abraham", the Jewish God, creates the world but is not part of it and does not enter it, and it is made very, very clear how seperate he is from the world. In Buddhism and Hinduism Sikhism Jainism most of the eastern faiths, Pantheists, All is God, God literally is the sum of the world and then some.
Yes, actually the hebrew God does enter into it. But you are right that God is separate from this world in the sense that God is a Spirit and the physical world is not Spirit.
Quote:
I suppose I should have been a little more clear, panteism vs monotheism is often used to mean faiths that have many gods vs faiths that have a single god, and while that works, and you won't find monotheists with multiple gods (usually) most panteists, at the core, believe in a single true god who manifests in a bajillion ways. You don't HAVE to believe in multiple gods to be a pantheist
No you don't have to believe in multiple Gods to be a pantheist. But to make one thing clear. The Christian God is not compatible with pantheism. In true pantheism, "god" is personally everything, that is..the physical universe is part of his nature, not a separate creation. But in Christianity, God is personally separate from his creation, but he enters his creation and interacts with humanity.
I'd like to remind you that buddhism teaches there is no personal god. If you think they are similar, you are sorely mistaken. This is a big difference.
In buddhism, it is believed that everything is made of matter, in conformity with mechanical laws without divine intervention. Certain branches of buddhism may acknowledge the existence of god or gods; but as in the basic writings of buddhism there is no mention of a god or gods, it may fit in the category of atheistic religions that accept matter as eternal.
Edited by jonathan_206 (11/30/07 10:09 PM)
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7701005 - 11/30/07 09:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jonathan_206 said: I said the opposite..pay closer attention
Indeed, I misread your post and am sorry. Sometimes my dyslexia causes me to bbead raackwards....
So, that aside, again I submit this to you:
Quote:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
--Epicurus
The concept of *hell* is flawed. A benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient being could not create such a place and *doom* certain individuals to it.
--------------------
   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: SoY]
#7701051 - 11/30/07 10:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jonathan_206 said: God is personally separate from his creation
How can god be separate from his creation? If you assert that there is a *god* that is the creator, that means that he is the fundamental layer reality and that everything else is only a byproduct of him. After the universe and everything is gone, what's left? God. This means that the only thing that really exists is god.
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   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: SoY]
#7701246 - 11/30/07 10:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
So, that aside, again I submit this to you:
Quote:
Quote: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
--Epicurus
The concept of "hell" is flawed. A benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient being could not create such a place and *doom* certain individuals to it.
First, as to the saying by epicurus. That is extremely simple minded reasoning. What if he wants to, but he wishes to allow free will for purposes of love and goodness? Or if he wishes to bring justice, but decides to be patient for his own reasons? It's simple minded it doesn't count in all the necessary factors.
As to your last statement , yes He can, and He did. People are not convicted of sin, their hearts are hardened, and they reject the concept of hell for that reason. If you reject God's righteousness and justice of course hell will seem wrong to you.
The truth is hell is just, once you consider the factors. God is an awesome, Holy God. He is eternal is nature, a most incredibly fearsome God. He has said He will not strive with man forever, and that is reasonable. Why should God put up with man? What has he done to deserve it? Why must He continue to allow man to grieve his heart for who knows how long? And God will have to bear it's rememberance forever. And it will hurt him because He loves you all. But that's not what he wants. But sinners have incited his hatred, and he holds them accountable. without a spirit, there is no sin. Therefore each spirit is held for his actions. He wants everyone to be with him. if God was not merciful, then why would he bear us for so long? It would have been just to destroy humanity for good from the beginning almost. God is reasonable. And man is unreasonable. And God has people he has waited long to live in heaven with as family in love and everlasting peace. And he's tired of hearing all the screams for justice. He's tired of all the lack of love in the world, and how little love everyone has for one another. He's tired of hate and sin, and all the hipocricy.That's not what he created us for, and he has to bear it all.
And it is just for God to reject those who have made themselves unworthy, who have rejected his call, and his salvation, and all his love and mercy and patience and goodness and all his gifts he made in the created world, and decide not put up with their selfishness and insanity.
GOD IS LOVE. And righteousness abides in love. You reject righteousness, and you reject True Love also. Man thinks he has love, but mans love is not Gods love. I have seen mans love, and it is not pure.
Now don't attack me for preaching, that's my serious answer.
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7701260 - 11/30/07 10:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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jonathan_206 said: God is personally separate from his creation
How can god be separate from his creation? If you assert that there is a *god* that is the creator, that means that he is the fundamental layer reality and that everything else is only a byproduct of him. After the universe and everything is gone, what's left? God. This means that the only thing that really exists is god.
No. Everything must ultimately depend on God. But that does not mean God cannot create anything outside of himself. But it does mean that everything must ultimately depend on him, and nothing can precede him.
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Silversoul
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7701297 - 11/30/07 11:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why should God put up with man? What has he done to deserve it?
Because he created us, that's why. Does a parent have a right to throw their child in a fire because they got bad grades in school?
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Silversoul]
#7701323 - 11/30/07 11:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Because he created us, that's why. Does a parent have a right to throw their child in a fire because they got bad grades in school?
If a son has made himself a bastard, then why should the father treat him like a son? But sinners have made themselves bastards in casting off the fathers instruction , which he has given them in their conscience, and testimonies in the created world.
Do not deceive yourself in thinking that God would hold us accountable as little children. You are not a little child, and neither am I.
A good father does not respect his son over doing what's right. A good father does the right thing no matter what.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Silversoul]
#7701526 - 12/01/07 12:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Does a parent have a right to throw their child in a fire because they got bad grades in school?
I still have the scars. Maybe now some of you will understand why I became a grammar nazi.
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7701528 - 12/01/07 12:33 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your post where you ask not to be attacked for preaching is a perfect example of how you are guilty of the philosophical fallacy "begging the question" AKA "circular reasoning".
You have chosen a belief. You then attempt to use *reason* to support your belief, instead of using reason to choose your beliefs. Your assumption that the conclusion is true justifies your flawed reasoning used to get there. You are wrong. That's the deal with circular reasoning...the one's who use can't tell that they do, or they wouldn't....
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jonathan_206 said: No. Everything must ultimately depend on God. But that does not mean God cannot create anything outside of himself. But it does mean that everything must ultimately depend on him, and nothing can precede him.
That's like saying that stars are separate from the universe....
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   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: SoY]
#7701593 - 12/01/07 01:12 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your post where you ask not to be attacked for preaching is a perfect example of how you are guilty of the philosophical fallacy "begging the question" AKA "circular reasoning".
Please explain. I consider that complete nonsense.
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You have chosen a belief. You then attempt to use *reason* to support your belief, instead of using reason to choose your beliefs. Your assumption that the conclusion is true justifies your flawed reasoning used to get there. You are wrong. That's the deal with circular reasoning...the one's who use can't tell that they do, or they wouldn't....
no. I used reason to choose my beliefs a long time ago, and I continue to do it in the present.
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jonathan_206 said: No. Everything must ultimately depend on God. But that does not mean God cannot create anything outside of himself. But it does mean that everything must ultimately depend on him, and nothing can precede him.
That's like saying that stars are separate from the universe....
Not at all. If the physical universe depends on his supporting power, but is created outside of his person, then that means it is seperate. It's not like pantheism where the material "fabric" of the universe is indistingusihable from "gods" prsonal nature and being.
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SoY
I am the LizardKing



Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7702112 - 12/01/07 08:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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you are guilty of the philosophical fallacy "begging the question" AKA "circular reasoning"......Your assumption that the conclusion is true justifies your flawed reasoning used to get there.
Seriously, look it up.
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jonathan_206 said: If the physical universe depends on his supporting power, but is created outside of his person, then that means it is seperate.
You use an assumption as a crutch to your reasoning. That is the definition of circular reasoning, Johnny boy.
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   "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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vaportrail
upandaway



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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7702266 - 12/01/07 10:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Actually I would say that was more of an ad hominem, he was rewording himself to explain to you what the word separate means. What I heard was "you're an idiot so I'm going to talk to you like I would a child." The funny thing is that you failed to see that, thus proving his point. 
Sorry Soy! But relax, as far as this God-Universe relationship you guys are discussing, I'm agreeing with you. Separate meaning not attached to anything else.. which is a synonym of independent.. then how is it fair to say "the universe depends on God, yet it is separate from him?"
Addressing the rest of the thread, you all seem like you're out in space somewhere. There is little understanding, but you aren't trying to understand each other anyway. "I thought we chased all you types away..?" Who is we? What are these types? Why are you regurgitating all this anti-religious sentiment? Jon was justified and modest in that subtle insult, because you keep attacking his beliefs without putting forth your own. Where are you coming from? What are you fighting for? What is your idea of God?
-------------------- and the hippos were boiled in their tanks
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: SoY]
#7702271 - 12/01/07 10:33 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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you are guilty of the philosophical fallacy "begging the question" AKA "circular reasoning"......Your assumption that the conclusion is true justifies your flawed reasoning used to get there.
Seriously, look it up.
You can't just throw out logical fallacies. You need to explain your arguements. I can't read your mind.
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jonathan_206 said: If the physical universe depends on his supporting power, but is created outside of his person, then that means it is seperate.
You use an assumption as a crutch to your reasoning. That is the definition of circular reasoning, Johnny boy.
You think you have it figured out don't you? You are being hypocritical. You make an assumption that this is an assumption. You never even asked. And then you failed to explain your logic and told me to go look it up.
Do you know what faith is? Faith is the evidence of things not seen. All of the things in this world we can taste, and touch, and smell, these things are temporary. But those things that we cannot see, spiritual things, those things are eternal.
To have faith in God necessitates recognition of his spiritual nature, which is eternal. In this universe, our knowledge always comes to an end, we always seek for more. There are only two ways you can be sure about what we know in the natural world. One is to know everything, the other is to recognize God's eternal and omniscient nature.
SO with a spiritual conviction and evidence (greater than any evidence in this world can give) it convicts me that the created world reflects his spiritual nature, that God's word is true, and that the physical universe is a separate creation according to his word.
This is according to a intuitive spiritual conviction that I perceive in my "heart".
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tsquad
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: vaportrail]
#7702291 - 12/01/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I suggest you guys read Maimonides' "Guide of the Perplexed"...gave me a new perspective and understanding of the Abrahamic religions.
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shakercee
Atheistic Mystic



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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Silversoul]
#7702299 - 12/01/07 10:42 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Because he created us, that's why. Does a parent have a right to throw their child in a fire because they got bad grades in school?
Well, if it were only about bad grades, but no, he is guilty of murdering and raping his classmates.
-------------------- Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking. Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc. Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god." - Indian Armed Forces "Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: vaportrail]
#7702306 - 12/01/07 10:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Separate meaning not attached to anything else.. which is a synonym of independent.. then how is it fair to say "the universe depends on God, yet it is separate from him?"
We support things that are independent of us all the time. Every time we pick up a glass of water. Every time we pick up our forks to eat dinner. Not that that's exactly how it is in the spiritual world, but to give you perspective. If it's possible for us, surely it's possible with God.God can do anything.
The distinction was between pantheism and monotheism. In Christianity, God is a Spirit and eternal. That means nothing can precede him including the material universe. The bible teaches that matter is not Spirit, but a separate creation. And I find in my own experience, that to be very true.
Edited by jonathan_206 (12/01/07 10:46 AM)
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Kristian
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7702337 - 12/01/07 10:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The beautiful thing about the nature of reality is that we can never prove or disprove God. He transcends the material. Thus the ultimate test is if we choose to have faith in God when nothing in the universe points one way or the other. That is the only way we could ever have free-will. If God revealed himself to us, we could have no choice but to acknowledge him and be with him, but as God truly loves us, he has stepped back and let it be up to us to want to be with him. He loves us so much that he does not want us to merely be like robots with no free will. This is a God I can love.
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Silversoul
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: shakercee]
#7702344 - 12/01/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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shakercee said:
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Because he created us, that's why. Does a parent have a right to throw their child in a fire because they got bad grades in school?
Well, if it were only about bad grades, but no, he is guilty of murdering and raping his classmates.
If God only sent rapists and murderers to hell, I don't think people would be putting up such a fuss. In this case we're talking about a father burning his child for not literally believing everything in a book that contradicts itself and goes against what science has since discovered.
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machination
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Silversoul]
#7702375 - 12/01/07 11:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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dance with the devil is like god c god
-------------------- "Have you not learned that your word is bond? Yes, my word is bond and bond is life, I shall give my life, before my word shall fail."
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Kristian
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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: machination]
#7702384 - 12/01/07 11:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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machination said: dance with the devil is like god c god
WTF?!?!
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shakercee
Atheistic Mystic



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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: Silversoul]
#7702395 - 12/01/07 11:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ooops sorry, i read your post out of context.
-------------------- Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking. Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc. Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god." - Indian Armed Forces "Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane
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vaportrail
upandaway



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Re: Christianity is actually right.........in a way [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7702563 - 12/01/07 11:58 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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jonathan_206 said: We support things that are independent of us all the time. Every time we pick up a glass of water. Every time we pick up our forks to eat dinner. Not that that's exactly how it is in the spiritual world, but to give you perspective. If it's possible for us, surely it's possible with God. God can do anything.
The distinction was between pantheism and monotheism. In Christianity, God is a Spirit and eternal. That means nothing can precede him including the material universe. The bible teaches that matter is not Spirit, but a separate creation. And I find in my own experience, that to be very true.
I can't help feeling that a fork really isn't independent at all. Would a fork exist without man? Would the glass be there in the first place for you to pick it up, if you hadn't influenced it somehow? If we support something, then it is dependent. The question then, is whether or not we are independent from the fork? I would say yes, we are independent from the fork, but the fork is dependent on us, and we are not separate. Here I hope I've come to understand what you mean. God is independent of the material universe(not influenced by it), but the universe is irrevocably entwined with his essence, the two however, are not separate at the basic level of having a relationship exist between them.
How can God be this unchanging, uninfluenced, independent thing that he is? It reminds me of a graph, that is extrapolated to the point where you can't see any change at all. The bigger the picture, the less 'static' you will see. Is God's path the ultimate path to solidarity, clinging to the security of reliance, seeking to depend on something? I can't help the feeling that there is nothing in our world we can truly rely on, and it is not a comforting thought. I ask myself, why not submit to the idea of God? Do I not deserve to have such a comfort? Why don't I raise myself above the noise, let myself believe this unchanging truth to all things?
I've seen images of heaven and hell, and they are all too familiar to me. I see them and I think, "I know that place! I've been there before!" Because really, are they not just mental states? If that is true, I know that today, I stand somewhere between.
-------------------- and the hippos were boiled in their tanks
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