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Offlineclemens
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Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 4,303
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Salvia gone?
    #7691314 - 11/28/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This doesn't really relate to the salvia experience so maybe this thread needs to be moved.

I was on IAMSHAMAN and I saw this thing saying Salvia will be illegal in 08. Is this true, is lady D going to be a outlaw soon?


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Take it easy dude, but take it!


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OfflineSerdal
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Registered: 09/29/07
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Re: Salvia gone? [Re: clemens]
    #7691320 - 11/28/07 04:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not exactly sure (although it's very possible) but it could be just a business tactic.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
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Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
Re: Salvia gone? [Re: Serdal]
    #7691370 - 11/28/07 04:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

it will, don't worry. stock up now.


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Offlineclemens
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Re: Salvia gone? [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7691384 - 11/28/07 04:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Good thing I already have 1 plant.


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Offlineclemens
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Re: Salvia gone? [Re: clemens]
    #7691430 - 11/28/07 04:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This site " http://www.aspeneducation.com/Article-salvia-divinorum.html "
says salvia will be illegal in 25 other states in 2008. Who else has heard about it?


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Take it easy dude, but take it!


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InvisiblePyroBurns
душа кофе


Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 4,343
Re: Salvia gone? [Re: clemens]
    #7691434 - 11/28/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe stocking up would be super profitable.


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Remember to cut your nails regularly.



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OfflineAnotherDimension
Wanderer in the Land of the Lost

Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 533
Loc: USA
Last seen: 15 years, 2 days
Re: Salvia gone? [Re: clemens]
    #7692540 - 11/28/07 08:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I was on IAMSHAMAN and I saw this thing saying Salvia will be illegal in 08. Is this true, is lady D going to be a outlaw soon?




IAMSHAMAN is located in Illinois. Illinois passed a law that goes into effect Jan 1, 2008 that makes salvia illegal. IAMSHAMAN is obeying the laws of the state in which they live.

Currently, there are no federal laws regarding salvia, although it is being and has been investigated by the feds.

Different states have different laws. Several states have made it illegal. Maine passed laws so it is treated similar to tobacco (18 and over). Many states have no laws regarding it. As for the '25 states', that could be true, but the laws probably have differences.


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Another Dimension
---------------------------
"Come, and trip it as ye go,
On the light fantastick toe."


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OfflinePiston
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 23
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Salvia gone? [Re: AnotherDimension]
    #7692598 - 11/28/07 08:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i am really starting to hate this posterboy brett kid. By being a dumbass and killing himself he leads the way to illegalizing salvia


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OfflineDaraleak
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Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 15
Loc: Texas U.S.A
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: Salvia gone? [Re: Piston]
    #7692968 - 11/28/07 10:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

wat? no! salvia cant be made illegal! its to fun! and ...its just insense why would they make that illegal?


haha


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"An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind."
Mohandas Gandhi


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Offlineclover606
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Registered: 08/13/07
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Re: Salvia gone? [Re: Daraleak]
    #7692983 - 11/28/07 10:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

louisianna made TONS of entheogenic plants illegal, including salvia, mimosa hostilis, b. caapi, syrian rue, datura ,etc.

its so sad that the government feels it is allowed to outlaw plants.


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grassman said:

I remember being in DARE when i was much younger and some of the stories they would tell you are not only ridiculous, but completely untrue. One story was that a woman was on LSD and thought her infant was a turkey so she baked it in the oven. Now I look back and think thats hilarious, but at the time I guess it scared me.


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OfflineDaraleak
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Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 15
Loc: Texas U.S.A
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: Salvia gone? [Re: clover606]
    #7693057 - 11/28/07 10:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

im going to be president one day and all that will change haha


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"An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind."
Mohandas Gandhi


Edited by Daraleak (11/28/07 10:37 PM)


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OfflineFlugon_Nine
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Registered: 01/29/07 Happy 17th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 110
Loc: Earth A.D.
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: Salvia gone? [Re: Daraleak]
    #7693422 - 11/29/07 01:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Land of the free my ass...


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"When we first broke into that forbidden box in the other dimension, we knew we had discovered something as surprising and powerful as the New World when Columbus came stumbling onto it." - Ken Kesey



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OfflineEnhance_Shammy
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Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 176
Loc: Under a rock.
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Salvia gone? [Re: Flugon_Nine]
    #7693445 - 11/29/07 01:20 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

its never been land of the free. the media controls everything that the average american thinks and does, thats why i love living in canada where people are more open minded, and think for themselves.


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InvisibleCidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG
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Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
Loc: Love's Secret Domain
Re: Salvia gone? [Re: Enhance_Shammy]
    #7693977 - 11/29/07 08:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This is why drugs should be used by responsible adults, and not flaky morons, or kids. Especially powerful psychedelic or dissociative drugs.

I won't try to claim that I didn't get high before I was 18. I did. However, I was pretty god damned intelligent, and somewhat mature for my age. Mature enough not to "spread the word" about things like MG seeds... intelligent enough to use discretion, and take reasonable doses of drugs that I wasn't 100% familiar with from experience. Responsible enough to do lots of research on any chemical I meant to ingest.

And this is before the explosion of the net. I often had to haul my ass down to the library, and spend hours reading actual BOOKS, with no search engine to help me.

This kind of foresight, maturity, and dedication is very much lacking in many of the young drug users today, and that will be our downfall.

Sadly, despite being reasonably intelligent and well-read, I still did some dumb shit. This is the nature of being a kid. Even smart kids can do dumb shit...and the dumb ones...do some REALLY fucking dumb shit.

If you're 16, and reading this, and thinking I'm a dick for saying this...wait 5 or 6 years, when more of these plants are illegal, and your views have changed a little.

I don't feel right advocating drugs to those who are underage. But if you ARE underage, and will take drugs despite anyone saying that you shouldn't, I only have this to say:

When you, as a minor, are taking drugs, you are making a very big decision. You are making a decision that will affect your life, and possibly the lives of those around you. I won't get into that. If you're at the shroomery, I assume you are already smart enough to know.

When you order salvia through the mail, and your parents intercept the package... when your parents find Mimosa Hostilis in your bedroom and look it up on the 'net... when you take a bunch of datura, and your parents find you babbling incoherently, and say "You're on DRUGS!" and rush you to the hospital...etc, etc,.... you become more effective than any law-maker or lobbyist. You become a "poster-boy" for the NEED for drug prohibition.

I'm not trying to single out kids, either... you just have a much higher chance of being caught, whether you're doing something dumb or not, and bringing attention to plants which I hold sacred.

There are also enough "adults" who do really stupid shit as well. It's just that most of them do it outside of their parents' house, and are less likely to draw attention unless they end up dead, in the hospital, or in jail.

Have a good look at the "Yall Never Tripped Like This!!!!!!!!!" thread, and you will see the kind of thing I am talking about. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7649480/an/0/page/2

I don't know how old this poster is (and I mean no disrespect)... but I can tell you that they either did something dangerous and stupid, or lied about doing something dangerous and stupid to sound "hardcore."

We all know what kind of headlines you end up making, when you're "hardcore" enough.

The mass of responses from all the intelligent, mature, and responsible Shroomery members in that thread gives me some hope for our future.

Sorry for the rant...but it makes me want to grab people and shake them sometimes. They do stupid things, dangerous things, then blame The Man for being intolerant of drugs. I agree...drug laws are bullshit. I don't care if 1 out of 3 salvia users are blowing their brains out...I should still have the right to use it.

The more media attention a drug or plant gets, the more likely it is to become illegal. The more stupid shit that happens surrounding a drug or plant, the more media attention it will get. The equation couldn't be simpler.

Thanks to anyone who bothered to read my whole rant, and thanks to all of you who do things responsibly, and don't draw the heat down on all of us. Your intelligence and discretion help the cause, and allow for a counter-argument that responsible drug use is possible.

Peace.


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I am me. We are You.


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Offlinec0_hush
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Re: Salvia gone? [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #7694043 - 11/29/07 08:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

People die of OD'ing on OTC shit all the time, young and old and those medications don't get banned. I agree, to a certain extent, that our downfall will be misusing drugs and doing stupid shit on them, definitely doesn't help our cause, but I think the problem is the western culture. Our cultural values that promote working mindlessly and being stupid and sociable embraced Alcohol and Caffeine and outlawed anything else. It's obvious that Nicotine and Alcohol cause the worst kind of physical damage in the long run than say marijuana, psilocybin, dmt, salvinorin and most of the other shit that's scheduled so the issue isn't about our health and that argument doesn't hold water. Just like everything else the gov't claims, it's the total opposite of it. I strongly believe that anything that comes out of these ppl's mouths, when reversed, is infinitely more true than when they say it.

These stupid laws will keep getting passed so long as we have 90 year olds in the senate and idiots in control of shit they have no idea what it is. Reminds me of the dude in charge of internet commerce saying internet was like a set of tubes and his staff sent him internet that morning and it arrived late, shit like that makes my head spin and wanna stick a fork in the eye. Imagine the old fucks that are in charge of making these kind of decisions, they probably have NO IDEA about anything that they're overseeing or if you're into conspiracy theories (like me) knowingly make these decisions because of whatever secret agenda they have.


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OfflineGrylls
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Registered: 10/15/07
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Re: Salvia gone? [Re: c0_hush]
    #7694068 - 11/29/07 09:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:banghead:
And they always use LSD as the comparison!  "This teen found a new, dangerous hallucinogen, similar to LSD."  Misinformation and the lack of common sense has ruined it for everyone else that is mature and wise thousands of times.


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Alone in the clouds all blue.  Lying on an eiderdown.  You can't see me, but I can you.


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InvisibleCidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG
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Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
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Re: Salvia gone? [Re: c0_hush]
    #7694169 - 11/29/07 09:39 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

c0_hush said:
People die of OD'ing on OTC shit all the time, young and old and those medications don't get banned. I agree, to a certain extent, that our downfall will be misusing drugs and doing stupid shit on them, definitely doesn't help our cause, but I think the problem is the western culture. Our cultural values that promote working mindlessly and being stupid and sociable embraced Alcohol and Caffeine and outlawed anything else. It's obvious that Nicotine and Alcohol cause the worst kind of physical damage in the long run than say marijuana, psilocybin, dmt, salvinorin and most of the other shit that's scheduled so the issue isn't about our health and that argument doesn't hold water. Just like everything else the gov't claims, it's the total opposite of it. I strongly believe that anything that comes out of these ppl's mouths, when reversed, is infinitely more true than when they say it.

These stupid laws will keep getting passed so long as we have 90 year olds in the senate and idiots in control of shit they have no idea what it is. Reminds me of the dude in charge of internet commerce saying internet was like a set of tubes and his staff sent him internet that morning and it arrived late, shit like that makes my head spin and wanna stick a fork in the eye. Imagine the old fucks that are in charge of making these kind of decisions, they probably have NO IDEA about anything that they're overseeing or if you're into conspiracy theories (like me) knowingly make these decisions because of whatever secret agenda they have.






I mostly agree with you. The basis of your ideas are very true. But therein lies the very reason why OTC drugs will remain legal despite blatant abuse, and our beloved plants will not.

No matter how many kids get caught "robotripping" I am confident DXM won't be scheduled at any point in the foreseeable future. Congressman Stupid can say to himself "why...I've taken Robitussin before...I give it to my kids...we can't schedule a good medication because of juvenile delinquents." You combine this with the notion that there are companies with deep pockets making lots of money on their OTC meds, and you can see why such scheduling isn't likely.

But even in a case like this, the actions of the irresponsible DO have consequences. In some pharmacies, DXM containing meds are kept behind the counter to prevent theft by kids. In these places, and even more, DXM will not be sold without ID. It won't be illegal any time soon... but I may have to show my ID to buy it in certain places, or ask for it behind the counter. And why?

On the other hand, Congressman Jerkoff has never taken salvia. Doesn't know anyone who has ever taken salvia. And this stuff is "as strong as LSD..." When these assholes hear about these plants through the media hype (because some dumb shit killed himself, ended up in the hospital, got caught "tripping" at school....) then it becomes just as you said. These drugs are nothing they can relate to. Had they not heard of it, it would have been some obscure plant from another country no more or less special than any other.

Some asshole is not intelligent or mature enough to see through the illusion that a drug can present, decides to huff grill fumes, and now all of the politicians are scurrying to ban this "New Threat to Our Children." And that is how they think of it. You never hear them talking about the "Threat to adult drug users..." You hear about the "Threat to Our Children." This is their propaganda mind-set, and the public eats it up.

Pharmaceutical companies aren't filling their banks by selling Salvinorin A. Ethnobotanical suppliers don't have deep enough pockets to lobby like big pharma could... (and besides, big pharmaceutical companies actually benefit by the scheduling of drugs... I can buy a huge bottle of hundreds of generic ibuprofen for under $10, but how much does a script for 60 Ibuprofen 800mg cost me without insurance?)

So, you are right that these plants are easy to ban because the politicians can't relate, and also because they don't make powerful enemies by doing this, and being Hard On Drugs is good for their career.

But how do they come to hear about an obscure Mexican plant in the first place?

Assholes like Brett. This is direct cause-and-effect.


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I am me. We are You.


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