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Drewwyann
Slayer of ticks



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difficulty of becoming a chemist
#7691076 - 11/28/07 03:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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chemistry is something that interests me very much, and i would like to pursue it at least a little bit in the near future. For the people that have done this, is it as hard as people say it is? I've heard if you have a head for chemistry, it is rather easy, but if not you have to work your ass off. I know most of the basics, and the basics are semi-easy for me.
So for you chemistry majors/minors/studiers out there, is the more complex stuff hard to wrap your head around?
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 Anyone need a glass pipe? : http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002435158931 Love powerfully  
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Tangerines




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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: Drewwyann]
#7691087 - 11/28/07 03:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well my discipline uses chem, physics and bio...I like chem and it comes easy to me. I have taken all my reg chem and some Ochem
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: Drewwyann]
#7691114 - 11/28/07 03:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Many factors determine how hard it is
1) The actual difficulty of the subject matter 2) Your effort to study 3) Your natural ease/difficulty with the subject 4) The professor teaching it 5) Subject matter covered in each class
All of these things can change, even when you're comparing 2 different classes that are the same (Example - one chemistry lecture may average a C, the other lecture group will average a B, because of the teacher, or the way they teach, etccccccc)
I've taken one intro chemistry course and 1 o-chem course at an engineering school. It's not an ivy league, but is roughly one of the top 20 US engineering schools. Then 2 intro chems and another o chem at a state school.
At the harder engineering one, O-chem was pretty intense. Lecture flew by, you really had to pay attention, and really had to race to keep up with the notes you had to copy. That was all they gave you - lecture notes, assigned problems, and a book.
Now at this other state school, it was much better. Lecture was slow paced (compared to the other school), they uploaded lecture powerpoints on the 'net, and the teachers were much better at spoon feeding you - the other school was like o-chem bootcamp. Keep in mind, this other state school wasn't like a shitty community college, it was a decent state school.
Regardless, my view is that undergraduate education is a joke. Almost anyone who has made it through highschool can do it if they put effort in.
So what does all that rambling crap I just wrote boil down to? Two things 1) Class difficulty will vary based on numerous factors 2) If you are driven, and put SOME effort into your work, you'll do well, I promise. 3) Your workload GREATLY depends on what kind of school you go to.
Hope that helps, good luck. As a personal belief I think you should only study what you enjoy, in a broad sense. So don't do chemistry if you hate it. Sounds simple, but it takes some people 20 years to realize.
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: Tangerines]
#7691121 - 11/28/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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if you have a desire to pursue the subject, you will work through any difficulties you have.
i just recently got my degree in biochemistry, and love the stuff. organic was a pain in the ass, but it's also very interesting, and as long as you pass the course you're golden. pretty much everyone i know, including myself, had difficulties at some point in the class (like my having the second highest exam grade at a 72 ha) but i know very few people who actually couldn't handle it and dropped out. study study study.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: Yrat]
#7691132 - 11/28/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Define "chemist".
A 4 year degree in chemistry or a related field would make you a "research technician" IMO.
Although in reality you can call yourself whatever you want.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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derx
who run it


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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: Drewwyann]
#7691281 - 11/28/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Chemistry is a complex science consisting of many interdisciplinaries. If you're planning on majoring in chemistry you better plan on spending A LOT of time, unless you want to become mediocre at chemistry. A mediocre chemist is not a good chemist. What makes it difficult is the amount of sequencial information you have to understand to learn chemistry. Chemistry often summons understanding of calculus, differential equations, a few basic biology courses, physics, thermodynamics and kinetics. All of these concepts build together to describe chemistry as a whole. Sure, you can get by with a 'C' in a core class, but you will be harming your education and making your pursuit a much more difficult task. I do not suggest chemistry for someone who is not ready to work their ass off the whole time you're in school because you will have to, to be good at it.
Labs consume a few hours once or twice a week. They are usually worth 1 or 2cr's at most. Some of the labs are a breeze and some are very difficult because of the lab reports, it all depends on the professor.
But if you have dedication i think you should pursue chemistry because it is very rewarding. I think education is physical sciences provides one with tools to solve complex problems, which is what our world is. I don't think many other majors do this.
-------------------- better living through chemistry OVERGROW the government!! it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: derx]
#7691312 - 11/28/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I learn easy. I love it. No need to study and I get A's! but yea most people struggle like no other. I got 85 on my last midterm...avg was 60 so I pretty much got a 95 due to curve.
but yea I have a chemistry mindset I guess.
Edited by Tangerines (11/28/07 04:35 PM)
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: Tangerines]
#7691358 - 11/28/07 04:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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what year, tangerines
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
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sophmore right now. ive taken 4 chem classes so far. 3 reg chem and 1 ochem.
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derx
who run it


Registered: 05/29/03
Posts: 2,459
Loc: dx/dt
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: Tangerines]
#7692408 - 11/28/07 08:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Tangerines: You're a sophomore, you haven't begun to learn chemistry yet. When I was a sophomore I remember thinking, 'ya, this shit's easy' but it gets much more complex over the next two years. Everything they teach you in the first two years is wrong. After you take some advanced chemistry (P. chem, ANALytical, Biochem) you can say it's easy. Until then, I think not.
One mole of He is heard from 200°C to 400°C at a constant pressure of 1atm. Given that the absolute entropy of He at 200°C is 135 J K‐1 mole‐1, and assuming that He is a perfect gas. a) Calculate ΔG, ΔH, and ΔS for this process. b) ΔG comes out negative. Does this mean that the process is spontaneous? Explain.
Can you answer this? It's a pretty simple one.
Or how about an easier one you may be able to answer.
Which is a better nucleophile, Sulfur or Oxygen and why?
-------------------- better living through chemistry OVERGROW the government!! it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.
Edited by derx (11/28/07 08:06 PM)
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: derx]
#7692430 - 11/28/07 08:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Of course...once you move on to graduate work, you'll probably look back at your undergraduate courses and laugh at them.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: derx]
#7692440 - 11/28/07 08:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am not studying to be a chemist. And no I can not.
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2FiNiTe
ConsideratlyKilling Me



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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: Drewwyann]
#7692453 - 11/28/07 08:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The more you learn in Chem the more you will love it. By the time I got to the "complex" stuff I loved the field so much it was fun to have a challenge and learn cool new things. Personally I've become very fond of Quantum Physics, which I hope to pursue after my chem goals are meant.
-------------------- "Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living." General Omar N. Bradley
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derx
who run it


Registered: 05/29/03
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: badchad]
#7692460 - 11/28/07 08:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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im speaking soley about undergrad courses. There is a HUGE difference between upper division classes and your first 2 years.
badchad: I don't think that's how grad school works. I think it's more of a you specialize in a very confined subject, whereas in undergrad, you study all of chemistry together.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: derx]
#7692488 - 11/28/07 08:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I cannot speak for chemistry, but most science related programs have about two years of classes (during which you do lab rotations and a small amount of lab work), and then another 3 years of specialized thesis work.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Minstrel
Man of Science


Registered: 03/15/05
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Loc: Hogtown
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: derx]
#7692794 - 11/28/07 09:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
derx said: Tangerines: You're a sophomore, you haven't begun to learn chemistry yet. When I was a sophomore I remember thinking, 'ya, this shit's easy' but it gets much more complex over the next two years. Everything they teach you in the first two years is wrong. After you take some advanced chemistry (P. chem, ANALytical, Biochem) you can say it's easy. Until then, I think not.
One mole of He is heard from 200°C to 400°C at a constant pressure of 1atm. Given that the absolute entropy of He at 200°C is 135 J K‐1 mole‐1, and assuming that He is a perfect gas. a) Calculate ΔG, ΔH, and ΔS for this process. b) ΔG comes out negative. Does this mean that the process is spontaneous? Explain.
Can you answer this? It's a pretty simple one.
Or how about an easier one you may be able to answer.
Which is a better nucleophile, Sulfur or Oxygen and why?
Fuck the thermodynamics question; real reactor design concerns most only enthalpy of reaction anyway. I gotta study for my final for that one. The process is suppost to be spontaneous if the change in Gibbs' energy is >0? or is't entropy? Enthalpy will tell you if it's exothermic or endothermic?
But an organic (!) question!!! Delightful!
Oxygen is a better nucleophile! A higher electronegativity demands it.
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BoneMan
Shrimpin ain't easy


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Quote:
VisionsToReality said: Keep in mind, this other state school wasn't like a shitty community college, it was a decent state school.
A lot of people assume that community colleges are inferior simply because the prices are affordable. Just because someone is paying one or two thousand dollars per semester rather than $10,000 doesn't mean they are getting less eductation, or erroneous information or something. I attend a community college. 3 out of my 4 professors also teach the same subject at one or both of two expensive four year universities that are close by in my area. They teach the same subject matter, follow the same exact lesson plans and have the same course requirements at both schools. At my college the same education is provided at 1/10th of the cost.
A lot of you think people that go to community colleges are suckers. But in a lot of cases, the people that are going to Universities and paying 10 times more for the same education are the real suckers. Don't look down upon community college students for saving money. And don't act as if the prestige of the university you attend somehow makes you smarter and more important. dumbasses.
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: Drewwyann]
#7693050 - 11/28/07 10:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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.
Edited by DieCommie (11/11/16 09:51 AM)
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Brugman
antisobrietarian



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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: Drewwyann]
#7693136 - 11/28/07 11:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just give up and apply at a fast food joint.
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derx
who run it


Registered: 05/29/03
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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: DieCommie]
#7694257 - 11/29/07 10:09 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: Being a 'chemist' in my book means being a publishing researcher. IMO this is one of the most difficult carrear paths any one can choose.
First you need a BS in chemistry. This is one of the hardest majors in the university (of course as others have said, the first two years are pretty easy). You cannot just pass with Cs either.... You need to get As and some Bs, as well as bieng very active in your department. That means participating in chemistry talks, going to conferences, and doing research with professors. Most undergrads who want to be professional chemists present their undergrad research at conferences too. If you can maintain a high gpa, do undergrad research and get good letters of recommendation you can probably get into a graduate school. (You need a good GRE score too).
When you get into grad school expect to work your ass off for 4-6 years. This means no drinking, pot, partying, video games etc. You literally work all day every day. I have talked to grad students who have to consciously set aside an hour a night to watch TV or to relax otherwise they work themselves too hard. After doing about two years of classes and passing your qualifying exams you then spend a few years doing publishable research. You defend your dissertation and you get your PhD. Then you move on to a post doc position...
A post doc position takes about two years generally. You get low pay, and are still in a 'learning' position. After you complete your post doc, you are ready to start your career as a chemist.
You have two main choices for a career... academia or private/govt. labs. If you go into academia, the environment is 'publish or perish'. You have to write grant proposals to bring in money to fund your research. The more money you bring the more the university likes you get better support and have to teach less. If you cant bring in the money, you become a teacher and cease to be a chemist. You also have to write your papers to get published. Much of your time is spent writing grant proposals and working on papers. If you choose a private/govt you dont have to write grant proposals but you have less freedom in what you want to research. There are pros and cons to either position.
Being a professional scientist of any kind is not just a job, its a way of life. Dont let this stuff scare you away from science, you can get a good job with chemistry without being a 'chemist'. I should note that I am in an undergrad physics program with grad school aspirations. This is very similar to chemistry so Im not talking out of my ass.
  
I've worked side by side with grad students in a biochemistry lab. DieCommie is 100% correct.
-------------------- better living through chemistry OVERGROW the government!! it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


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Re: difficulty of becoming a chemist [Re: derx]
#7694311 - 11/29/07 10:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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No he isn't. There is no hardest subject, because everyone has a different "hardest subject"
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Quote:
VisionsToReality said: No he isn't. There is no hardest subject, because everyone has a different "hardest subject"
Agreed, but DieCommie is spot on about the career path. The workload will vary depending on the type of research you engage in however.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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