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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms?
    #7689871 - 11/28/07 10:49 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

For quite some time now, I've advised against the use of aluminum trays for cultivation of mushrooms due to the fact that certain species of mycelium produce metabolites that actually dissolve holes into the trays, usually prior to first flush.

However, as far as I could research, nobody had ever sent off a mushroom to a lab for testing after growing from an aluminum tray. Below is a tray that was used to hold a shiitake substrate. When the project fruited, I sent a mushroom to the lab for analysis. The results are next to the picture of the tray below. It appears that the aluminum content of the mushroom was very low, so apparently the metal is not conducted into the fruits.

There are other reasons not to use aluminum trays, such as the increased risk of bottom pinning due to the air exchange down there once the holes are created. It also reflects light down the sides of the tray. However, it does not appear that the aluminum is transferred to the fruit, even though the metabolites dissolve it.
RR



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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineManna Inspired
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7689901 - 11/28/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I have always been uncomfortable w/ the aluminum becoming part of my colonized substrate. When dunking I would notice that the aluminum was attached and would give off a moldy look. Trash bags work wonderfully for me. Nice to know, for those who use aluminum, that it doesn't transfer to the fruit.


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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: Manna Inspired]
    #7689913 - 11/28/07 11:03 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

So aluminum does not transfer.. awesome.. Thanks for taking the time and money to get that information.

At least now we know its OK to eat the fruits.


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Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

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Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

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Offlineabesh
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7689920 - 11/28/07 11:06 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

This is great news, and thanks for spending time and money to share this with us.

I was wondering if there are only some species that eat through, because I just did 2 trays with cubes (rye to coir) and it did not eat do anything to the tray (I even had to leave it in the incubator for a few weeks longer as I had no room in my FC)????

Also maybe it could be the tray I got (I think it was Glad), had some kind of a coating on it. Like they coat the insides of a soda can, so the soda does not corrode it.

I see it was shiitake myc that did that, and I was wondering if all or most other species are known to do that too????


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OfflineWeBeBad
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: Manna Inspired]
    #7689937 - 11/28/07 11:13 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Do you know what kind of reaction the aluminum is undergoing after it's been attacked by metabolites? Does this mean the aluminum products remain localized in the mycelium since they weren't absorbed into the fruitbody or were they absorbed by the mycelium at all? I'm hopeful someone will chime in with an explanation.

Also, RR, what did this sort of analysis cost? This sort of service might be convenient in the future.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: WeBeBad]
    #7689985 - 11/28/07 11:27 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Many, but not all strains of cubensis will eat holes in the aluminum. Oysters don't seem to do so, nor does Lion's Mane. Shiitake will every time, that's why that project was selected, and then sent off for testing.

The metals test wasn't cheap, but I also needed it to make sure there were no heavy metals in the printing inks used to print the phonebooks, before recommending them as a cultivation substrate in my recycling video, now in production. Printing inks in the US are soybean based, as they are in most of the developed world. However, I'm sure some lead containing inks are still in use in less developed parts of the world, so printed paper from those areas should not be used as substrate.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlinerodfarva
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7690159 - 11/28/07 11:57 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Way to contribute to our understanding. This was a great hypothisis and conclusion ( being that we are not poisoning ourselves! ):thumbup:


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: rodfarva]
    #7690259 - 11/28/07 12:11 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Did you discover anything else from your lab results?

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: Fraggin]
    #7690303 - 11/28/07 12:21 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fraggin said:
Did you discover anything else from your lab results?




I'm impressed with the calcium content of the mushroom, especially considering it was grown on paper. It could be due to the lime used in paper making.

I'm also a bit worried about the 100 ppm chromium. I'll have to do some checking to see what the safe level in food is. I haven't had time to do that yet. I don't know if it came from the printing inks or not. I wonder if chromium is used in aluminum making?
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7690379 - 11/28/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

Fraggin said:
Did you discover anything else from your lab results?




I'm impressed with the calcium content of the mushroom, especially considering it was grown on paper. It could be due to the lime used in paper making.

I'm also a bit worried about the 100 ppm chromium. I'll have to do some checking to see what the safe level in food is. I haven't had time to do that yet. I don't know if it came from the printing inks or not. I wonder if chromium is used in aluminum making?
RR




Chromium is used in production of anodized aluminum, but I'm not certain whether it is used in the production of aluminum cookware....

Here's a fact taken from : http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts7.html


Has the federal government made recommendations to protect human health?
EPA has set a limit of 100 µg chromium(III) and chromium(VI) per liter of drinking water (100 µg/L).

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set limits of 500 µg water soluble chromium(III) compounds per cubic meter of workplace air (500 µg/m3), 1,000 µg/m3 for metallic chromium(0) and insoluble chromium compounds, and 52 µg/m3 for chromium(VI) compounds for 8-hour work shifts and 40-hour work weeks.

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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: Fraggin]
    #7690473 - 11/28/07 01:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)



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Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: Slimz]
    #7690548 - 11/28/07 01:25 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Haven't you ever heard-of/seen Erin Brockovich? :lol:

Seriously though, hexavalent chromium (chromium(VI)) is a very dangerous genotoxic (mutation causing) carcinogen.  Trivalent chromium (chromium(III)), on the other hand, is what you find in vitamin supplements.


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:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

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figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: mycocurious]
    #7690578 - 11/28/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

LOL yeah i've seen it... thats why i wanted to set the record straight...


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Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: Slimz]
    #7690809 - 11/28/07 02:20 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Food sources of chromium include processed meats, whole grain products, cereals, spices (black pepper, thyme), mushrooms, brown sugar, coffee, tea, beer, broccoli, and spices.




Cool. Glad to see that. Thanks for the link slimz.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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InvisibleSlimz
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7690827 - 11/28/07 02:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

yeah it popped up in a google search for / chromium mushrooms / i google everything...


--------------------
Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess)

This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true.
The Pharmacratic Inquisition
Best Thread Ever ! ! !

:pm: me if you have questions about lasers

Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles.

FeelFamily resident tech guru

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Offlineeleven34
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: Slimz]
    #7691129 - 11/28/07 03:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah thanks RR that goes to show a true Mycologist. One who spends time and research in all aspects of growing.

Thanks again,

11


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Offlinesomestupidnewbie
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: eleven34]
    #7691178 - 11/28/07 04:00 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

eleven34 said:
Yeah thanks RR that goes to show a true Mycologist. One who spends time and research in all aspects of growing.

Thanks again,

11




And just spent a buttload of money to make sure we weren't poisoning ourselves. Thanks Roger!


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OfflineNibin
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: somestupidnewbie]
    #7691298 - 11/28/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Chromium is really considered an "ultra-trace" mineral, since it is needed in such small quantities to perform its essential functions. The blood contains about 20 parts per billion (ppb), a fraction of a microgram. Even though it is in such small concentrations, this mineral is important to health. There are about 6 mg. of chromium stored in the bodies of people who live in the United States; tissue levels of people in other countries are usually higher, and those higher levels tend to be associated with a lower incidence of diabetes and atherosclerosis. There is less hardening of the arteries in people of Asian countries, who it is estimated have five times higher chromium tissue levels than Americans. People of Near Eastern countries who have about four times the average U.S. levels and African people who have twice our chromium levels seem to experience less diabetes than Americans. These higher tissue levels of chromium are due primarily to better soil supplies and a less refined diet. Chromium may be only one of the factors accounting for the differences in rates of diabetes and atherosclerosis between cultures, but it is probably a major one.

Chromium is a difficult mineral to absorb. Figures range from 0.5‚3 percent absorption for the inorganic chromium salts often found in food. The organic complexes of chromium, such as GTF, are absorbed better, at about 10‚20 percent. The kidneys clear any excess from the blood, while much of chromium intake is eliminated through the feces. This mineral is stored in many parts of the body, including the skin, fat, brain, muscles, spleen, kidneys, and testes.




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OfflineVisionsToReality
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: somestupidnewbie]
    #7691331 - 11/28/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

somestupidnewbie said:
Quote:

eleven34 said:
Yeah thanks RR that goes to show a true Mycologist. One who spends time and research in all aspects of growing.

Thanks again,

11




And just spent a buttload of money to make sure we weren't poisoning ourselves. Thanks Roger!



How much did it cost? I missed that.


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Life is one big road with lots of signs,
So when you're ridin' through the ruts,
Don't you complicate your mind.

Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy
Don't bury your thoughts,
Put your vision to reality, yeah!

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Offlinebmoctta
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #10128566 - 04/08/09 08:31 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, I ran across this from someones earlier question about casing in aluminum trays - but after reading this I don't see a consensus. I could be blind. The lab report just states "chromium", but doesn't specify hexavalent chromium (chromium(VI)) or trivalent chromium (chromium(III)) - the conversation just jumped to chromium in food and vitamin supplements. If we don't know which kind of chromium was in the mushrooms, how do we know if it really is safe?

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