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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10861368 - 08/14/09 07:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Hope you don't mind if I bump this thread. I was curious if you've advanced your understanding of aluminum and shrooms. I saw a study that suggested aluminum may stimulate growth in some fungi. They concluded the opposite of your lab results, that increased aluminum content in substrate did increase aluminum found in the fruit.

You think the myc is taking up the aluminum in vermiculite? Did you get that lab test for free? Can you test brf+verm fruits against cooked brown rice alone?

link
http://www.springerlink.com/content/t00p107877600413/


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InvisibleSRHooM
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: bmoctta]
    #10861496 - 08/14/09 07:56 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Yea when I saw my Myc eating my Aluminum trays it find of freaked me out a little. I mean it's dissolving a very durable metal.

Very good to see some took the time to research this more in depth.
Too bad this thread is like 2years old..

:thumbup::thumbup:



The best fruit tray I've found are food grade food pans, they come in black & are very heavy duty. They only cost about 3-5 dollar a piece & they will last for ever. You can even buy lids for then if you wish.

Like this,

This is a 1/3 size Carlisle food pan witch hold 5.5Q & is 6" deep.


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: SRHooM]
    #10861572 - 08/14/09 08:06 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I think you're missing the point


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: SRHooM]
    #10861589 - 08/14/09 08:09 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

The test was a little over $100.  Personally, even though the jury is still out on aluminum's connection to Alzheimer disease, I don't want to be eating it.  I was glad to see that even though the mycelium ate lots of holes in the tray, it didn't uptake to the mushrooms. 

There's other drawbacks to having the mycelium eat holes in the trays, not the least of which is it encourages bottom pinning.
RR


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InvisibleSRHooM
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: anonjon]
    #10861650 - 08/14/09 08:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
I think you're missing the point




Hmm, what point is that? I'm pretty sure I understood what I read..
Wanna fill me in?



Aluminum & Alzheimer disease that's not good.. you think they would have that figured out by now. Seeing as that Aluminum is everywhere.


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Offlineshangrila
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: SRHooM]
    #10861679 - 08/14/09 08:28 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

dude how much mushroom does one have to eat to get alzheimers disease, i was told aluminum lasts one grow.  so be it, ill buy more, i get 16 by 11 inch and 4 deep trays for a buck each, and it keeps me from cleaning them.  use n toss.  the jars cost me the same about for pints, but i dont clean em so i keep em  :smile:


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InvisibleEpilson Lyrae
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: SRHooM]
    #10861706 - 08/14/09 08:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

What I got from this thread is that although mushrooms can be grown in aluminum pans, it's not the best medium. And that if aluminum is your only option; you might consider lining it with a black plastic bag.


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InvisibleSRHooM
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: shangrila]
    #10861715 - 08/14/09 08:35 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Where does it say eating mushroom's grown using Aluminum tray's will cause Alzheimer disease?


Just Google "Aluminum & Alzheimer's disease" They basically have no idea if there's a connection. They said that some Alzheimer patients had Aluminum traces in there brain. They also said they it could be from the way the tested the samples.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: Epilson Lyrae]
    #10861720 - 08/14/09 08:36 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

And that if you are stuck with using them, there's little reason to worry about consuming the mushrooms.


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Offlineshangrila
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: Epilson Lyrae]
    #10861734 - 08/14/09 08:37 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

heyy looks who drinks milwaukeeee, screw the lining, speaking for myself of course.  i dont like extra work for that kind of details.  rather invest energy in grain lc's and prints to store and all.  but thats just me.  but if your willing to put lining you might aswell use plastic and then clean.  but hey to each his own.  cheers!


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Offlineshangrila
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: Doc_T]
    #10861743 - 08/14/09 08:40 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
And that if you are stuck with using them, there's little reason to worry about consuming the mushrooms.





i dont know if its the beer, but i dont understand what your saying, i tried but nahh i cant.  its sounds like your ending someones phrase but i cant seem to find it, sorry  :smile:


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: shangrila]
    #10863845 - 08/15/09 07:36 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe I bumped the wrong thread. I wasn't concerned about getting sick, I was just fascinated by the idea that the myc might be 'eating' the vermiculite as RR suggested in another thread. That study I linked to concluded that aluminum was stimulating the growth of certain fungi. So I got to wondering if it might be true for cubes as well. According to Wikipedia verm contains Aluminum, Iron, and Magnesium.

I experimented a little with different ratios of brf to verm and found that the higher ratio of verm colonized faster and fruited sooner. I had assumed it was just a matter of cake density. But now I'm wondering if something in the verm is acting like some kind of fertilizer or catalyst.

Just curious is all.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: anonjon]
    #10863870 - 08/15/09 07:56 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I wish we had a way to test to see what it is in verm that the mycelium is consuming.  I know from experience that the verm is being 'eaten' by the mycelium because of how much brf cakes shrink over time.  After six or seven flushes, they're about 1/3 original size, which means they've lost way more than the brown rice flour.  In addition, bulk substrates with verm perform far better than without, even though other bulk substrate materials often hold as much water as verm.

We know mycelium can absorb the minerals in gypsum, so it only makes sense they're absorbing and using the minerals in vermiculite too.  Another clue is that brf cakes made with sawdust instead of verm under perform cakes made with vermiculite, even when used for wood loving species such as oyster and shiitake.  Since sawdust and verm both hold the same amount of water, it isn't the reservoir action of the verm.
RR


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10863944 - 08/15/09 08:42 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Seems like the same lab could analyze before and after samples of the verm, see what changes.


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11619389 - 12/09/09 06:53 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I am skeptical of the idea that other mushrooms will behave the same way as these shiitake when it comes to heavy metal uptake. I swear I can remember reading stamets saying something about some mushrooms up-taking specific heavy metals more than others (in ggmm if I recall).

Not to disparage your research, but I would not use this data to definitively tell anyone to use aluminum trays for anything outside of shiitake. I will still personally recommend against aluminum trays.

Also, my oysters did eat aluminum.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: ScavengerType]
    #11619452 - 12/09/09 07:01 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Not to disparage your research, but I would not use this data to definitively tell anyone to use aluminum trays for anything outside of shiitake. I will still personally recommend against aluminum trays.




I've been advising against aluminum for many years, and still do.  This report didn't change anything.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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InvisibleCitizen13
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Registered: 11/01/09
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11619496 - 12/09/09 07:08 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

Not to disparage your research, but I would not use this data to definitively tell anyone to use aluminum trays for anything outside of shiitake. I will still personally recommend against aluminum trays.




I've been advising against aluminum for many years, and still do.  This report didn't change anything.
RR




I'm a little confused here.

would you advise against using aluminum trays for health reasons?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: Citizen13]
    #11619510 - 12/09/09 07:10 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

No, I advise against aluminum trays because the holes the mycelium eats will cause bottom pinning. 

I sent the sample for testing because I was worried about uptake and the possible health implications.  The test with shiitake was negative.  Who knows, it may have been different with another species.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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InvisibleCitizen13
Jack's wasted life.


Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 1,319
Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #11619520 - 12/09/09 07:12 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
No, I advise against aluminum trays because the holes the mycelium eats will cause bottom pinning. 

I sent the sample for testing because I was worried about uptake and the possible health implications.  The test with shiitake was negative.  Who knows, it may have been different with another species.
RR




touche,

i guess it's time for a resident lab technician to answer this question once and for all then :laugh:


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InvisibleCitizen13
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Re: Aluminum Contamination of Mushrooms? [Re: Citizen13]
    #11619607 - 12/09/09 07:27 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

would exposing a small chunk of cubensis mushroom to enough heat/air/etc to destroy all psilocybin cause a the sample test to be faulty/inconclusive?


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