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InvisibleBIGSWANG
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: adrug]
    #7689952 - 11/28/07 11:20 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:iloveyou:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: adrug]
    #7690005 - 11/28/07 11:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Nietzsche said that the ideas of any given philosopher reflected more on them and thier personal issues and challenges, than on reality itself. This is clearly the case here. At least philosophers give well considered arguments. :smirk:


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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: adrug]
    #7690092 - 11/28/07 11:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think it's pretty hard to find people to trip with these days. I have no other days to compare too but I imagine the difficulty is the result of factors relating to both the person (us) and the society (them).

Assuming Mikebart is formulating this argument based on his experience, I'd guess that he just hasn't found any girls that like to trip or hasn't found any that can deal with it.

I have no experience turning guys onto psychedelics so I fail to procure a control group but in my experience of turning girls onto psychedelics there have been many difficult experiences that usually seemed to revolve around a loss of self-control. But the same girls had no qualms in losing control by means of alcohol.

What's socially acceptable, what's not?

Furthermore, there have been a couple that dealt quite well which supports the idea that psychedelics are for some people and not others. Simple as that.

But I don't think there in any sexism is asking these questions. Perhaps a misunderstanding, but how can anyone provide remedies while they're too busy throwing stones? There are many interesting questions and observations that relate to the psyches of individual sexes or races, prompting such questions doesn't necessarily make one sexist nor racist and can just be the result of an interest in the development of another individuals mind based on their experiences that of course have relation to their age, sex, race, culture, religion etc. We're all built in one way or another.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: mikebart101]
    #7690099 - 11/28/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Both men AND women are driven to conform to societal expectations.  We evolved as tribes, and our inclusion or exclusion was a matter of life or death.  This behavior is hard-wired, though the expression will vary depending upon what is deemed acceptable by our particular society during the era in which we come of age.

Men AND women are also both driven to establish themselves as individuals, particularly American men and women.  We all want to be special, important, unique and remarkable, but our hard-wired desire for acceptance limits our pursuit of individual achievement.

Within each human, the push-pull of acceptance and individuation creates a personalized performance (also called Ego), and, while this is certainly influenced by current acceptable gender roles, it is not defined by these roles.

Generalizations such as "women are more emotional" or "men are more violent" do not accurately describe the ego structure of a particular man or a particular woman.  Pushing these generalizations as FACT is erroneous and (IMO) damaging.  Why perpetuate these absurd and limiting myths?

Let's talk about being human.  This is what feminism (not victimism, which is often erroneously called feminism) is really about--freedom from assigned gender roles, freedom from social censure for being oneself, and establishing social and legal support for self-determination by BOTH sexes.

Some humans are afraid of taking hallucinogenic drugs.  They want to be in control of their perceptions and actions, and they may have been brainwashed by anti-drug propaganda.  Some humans, myself included, are interested in exploring innerspace, and will utilize any tools they deem worthwhile.

No need to throw stones at one another...we've all been bruised and battered enough by our desperate attempts to resolve the push-pull conflict within ourselves.  I'd rather look for commonalities and connections.
:heart:


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Invisibleelbisivni
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: Veritas]
    #7690125 - 11/28/07 11:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Funny how our posts resemble one another's :smirk:


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: elbisivni]
    #7690134 - 11/28/07 11:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, you'd think that we had more than one chromosome in common!  :wink:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: Veritas]
    #7690300 - 11/28/07 12:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

MikeBart, you keep trying to justify your chauvinism with statements like
"women don't meet each other's realistic needs, just emotional needs"
"PMS anyone?"
And et cetera. Your statements about the female sex are incoherent and have no real logic behind them. Your attempt to explain the special societal pressure applied to women relates to men too, and other than that it's just sexist assumptions about expectations and self-worth.

Men and women are different, to some extent. This is obvious. But you are not so much addressing the ways that they ARE different as you are addressing the differences in appearance colored by your own nonsensical interpretations. But as has been said before, if either sex has a "more fragile" ego, it would have to be men.

There are men who don't trip just like there are women who don't trip. There probably are more male trippers, as there are more male drug-users in general. It doesn't really reflect on the female gender in any way, except that our culture tends to shelter girls a bit more than boys.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (11/28/07 12:26 PM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: mikebart101]
    #7690504 - 11/28/07 01:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

wow, I skipped the last part of this thread, but please don't forget about these 'bad' hormones testosterone and estrogen, which are only the main players, which have so damned much influence on our mind and that's not sociologically, but physical animal evolutionary :wink:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinemikebart101
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: elbisivni]
    #7690518 - 11/28/07 01:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elbisivni said:

Assuming Mikebart is formulating this argument based on his experience, I'd guess that he just hasn't found any girls that like to trip or hasn't found any that can deal with it.





I have met a few females that do in fact enjoy tripping but they enjoy it like alcohol, just like you stated. They turn into three year olds.

And there is definately some bias here when presenting ideas based on sex. Most of the males here have become more emotional as a result of consuming phycedelics and the only women on this forum are going to be ones that enjoy hallucinogens.

Scenario:

Your best friend comes to your door crying. His/her sex does not matter.

Would you ask them what happened first or would you imediately comfort them physically by giving them a hug and then ask what happened.

Take into account you have no idea why they are crying.


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So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: mikebart101]
    #7690566 - 11/28/07 01:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I would give them a hug and comfort them and ask what was going on. Sex doesn't really matter, if somebody's crying something's got to be wrong.

I've seen men that take hallucinogens so they can run around and see wacky visuals. They enjoy it like alcohol, turning into three year olds with overactive imaginations. There are some who take it and become thoughtful and introspective. The exact same applies to women.

Your "observations" on gender are pretty skewed.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: mikebart101]
    #7690622 - 11/28/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think your problem is that your friends are stupid, immature and out of touch with themselves. Or at least trying them in a shitty context - maybe trying to prove themselves to a bunch of macho dudes. This does not reflect on thier gender as a whole.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: mikebart101]
    #7692255 - 11/28/07 07:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Wow... this is a dumb thread.

Chicks dig hallucinogens.

It may not seem like it if you spend too much time on these boards, but they do.

Many women don't hang out at The Shroomery because of the OTD, ADD, alpha-male, chest-thumping nature of this community.

In conclusion: It is a scientific fact that most hippie chicks dig shrooms more than they dig The Shroomery.

Next thread... PLEASE.


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Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (11/28/07 07:32 PM)


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OfflineCompass
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: Rose]
    #7692456 - 11/28/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

An interesting bit of info here:

Since Salvia is mostly legal and available, I chose it for studying on Erowid.

35/925 trips are bad for males ~ 1/26

7/59 trips are bad for females ~ 1/8

This is based on the ratio of "Bad Trips" to total trip reports.

I have my own ideas to explain the difference, but I'd like to hear other people.


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Invisibleadrug

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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: Compass]
    #7692473 - 11/28/07 08:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Here's a semi-recent thread about that very subject. Not a very well designed poll though, I'm afraid.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7495274#Post7495274


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: Compass]
    #7692503 - 11/28/07 08:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Compass said:
An interesting bit of info here:

Since Salvia is mostly legal and available, I chose it for studying on Erowid.

35/925 trips are bad for males ~ 1/26

7/59 trips are bad for females ~ 1/8

This is based on the ratio of "Bad Trips" to total trip reports.

I have my own ideas to explain the difference, but I'd like to hear other people.




I imagine the threshold for the definition of a "bad trip" is probably higher for men. I see a lot of guys do enough drugs to get so fucked up that they're puking and obviously not that comfortable but wind up saying they had a wicked fun time anyway, and women don't seem to be quite as tolerant of this type of discomfort. That is to say, neither gender is actually having worse trips, just that women might be more likely to call their trip bad after the fact. In this case we come back to the age-old observation that men are encouraged from an early age to be stoic, while women are encouraged to be expressive.

That having been said, I have a really cautious approach to drugs and avoid as much discomfort as possible, so according to what I just said I'm more female than male.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineCompass
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: adrug]
    #7692567 - 11/28/07 08:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)



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nystagmus dopamine guru inverted pop culture love scars of sorrow fleshy synesthesia hippie farts perpetual tinnitus
Reclaim the Swastika!


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Invisibleadrug

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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: Compass]
    #7692591 - 11/28/07 08:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That thread was much less coherent than this one. heh


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OfflineCompass
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: Compass]
    #7692636 - 11/28/07 08:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Shroom reports on erowid

male = 101/1037 bad trips ~ 1/10

female = 23/143 ~ 1/6


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OfflineCompass
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: Compass]
    #7692706 - 11/28/07 09:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Cannabis

male = 80/823 ~ 1/10

female = 19/138 ~ 1/7


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why Females Do Not Enjoy Hallucinogens [Re: Compass]
    #7692714 - 11/28/07 09:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

What about good old Lucy?


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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