Home | Community | Message Board


MRCA Tyroler Gluckspilze
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains, USA West Coast Strains   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Amazon Morning Glory Seeds

Jump to first unread post. Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleZShroom
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1,061
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7697400 - 11/30/07 02:51 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

where has it been proven to exist?:levitate:


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: ZShroom]
    #7697509 - 11/30/07 04:07 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"truth" exists where it is deduced through a logically consistent set of rules

or

everywhere

:laugh:


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBoundless
Stranger
Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 38
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7698059 - 11/30/07 11:16 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


"truth" is known where it is proven to exist




How can something be proven in a temporal location, or in existence itself?

If truth exists as an object of existence, then what would make it different then any other object? Unless this object is beyond all other objects and and has them within itself, then it would be the only evaluator of what is true, and so anything within itself would not be able to prove that it is true, unless they had a part of the truth within itself.

And if they only have a part within themselves, then what are the parts that do not have the truth within them? Either they don't exist, or they are worthless, or BOTH.

If truth is an object, which means it has some kind of form. Then what formulates it? What can define it?

What gives it the power to uphold itself, to make itself real?

How did the object come into existence? If it always was and always will be, it must be perfect. And if it is perfect, how can it be defined or contained in any way?

What can measure a forms perfection other then the truth?

And being that the truth cannot be bound by time or space, it must also be beyond conception.

Does the truth reside in a place or location? No

It resides now. And what is now other then an everlasting present?

Thus, truth is known, right now. It doesn't have to be proven correct, it merely needs to be revealed.

And what can reveal the truth but the mind? Since the mind is the only way to know the truth, the truth must be within our mind.

Being that we know the truth, and it is within us, when we are attempting to the find the truth, we are truly attempting to find ourselves.

So what is not the truth then? If the truth is in our mind and our mind IS the truth, and the truth itself is everlasting beyond words thoughts or deeds, then the truth cannot be of time, as anything of time decays and fades away.

Therefore, anything that is temporary, subject to decaying laws of time and space, cannot be the truth.

Thus, to know the truth, ask simply this question: Will this decay or is this everlasting?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: Boundless]
    #7698085 - 11/30/07 11:27 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

All truth is only belief. Doesn't matter if it's now or later. Evidence is only an agreed upon belief. At one time the earth could be demonstrated to be flat with observation. Finite mind and Infinite reality. You can't know one with the other. We never have the assurance that we have all the facts or that we are able to recognize or understand them. So we believe. Some beliefs my be more skillful in serving your or our collective experience but thats about it.

This is why we debate. We all have differing views and evidence for the "truth". But this is just our current belief about reality.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEgo Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: Icelander]
    #7698283 - 11/30/07 12:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The man who mistook his belief for a fact




Was infact a human.

WE are all guilty.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBoundless
Stranger
Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 38
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: Ego Death]
    #7698312 - 11/30/07 12:43 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Then light up the fire cuz we'll be burning for eternity!!

Unless of course we don't believe in guilt. Who would condemn us, if none us us believed in guilt?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: Ego Death]
    #7698368 - 11/30/07 01:01 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ego Death said:
Quote:

The man who mistook his belief for a fact




Was infact a human.

WE are all guilty.




We all do it for sure and some all the time. It's a common human habit but it is just a habit and one can do something about habits even if it's not easy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 2 months, 23 days
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7698701 - 11/30/07 02:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Ever notice how the greatest minds in the most profound disciplines from Buddhist Abhidharma psychology to quantum mechanics to higher mathematics, etc., all find some form of "uncertainty principle" (to quote Heisenberg) active in the phenomenal universe?

Now, I'm a fairly intelligent guy, yet depite my ability to concentrate and despite above-average patience with difficult ideas, I do not have the background in math (algebra I+II, geometry, trigonometry, calculus I, Boolian algebra, research design and 3 courses in statistics, notwithstanding) to really understand calculations about 'uncertainty' from even a Wikipedia description. The notion of 'uncertainty' covers all fields of phenomena in the phenomenal world.

Juxtapose the fundamentalist believer who maintains 'certainty' based on the mythic wrtings of some ancient visionary (not actually Moses), of the entire history of Earth's existence from conception to death with a judgement and an afterlife. Certainty, based on the belief that 'sacred' writings are uniquely delivered from the Mysterious Author of existence, is indeed a crutch - a fabricated sense of 'certainty' which may define its sacrality to the believer who is overwhelmed by the uncertainty of it all. We are ALL overwhelmed by the uncertainty of it all, but like the various passangers aboard the sinking Titanic, most went down in panic, some sat stoically and awaited their own end, some spent their last moments helping others to live, many prayed for deliverance from their impending doom (I am sure), and a few prayed for their own inner peace and for whatever peace their peace could instill in others. I would not be surprised that at the reading of the tragedy in the paper, there were those who believed that the doomed ship was some kind of divine punishment for those aboard.

Fundamentalists are so 'certain' of the specialness (which is just pathological ego-inflation) that they blow themselves up for a heavenly f**k-fest with celestial virgins, while their deceased wives get to stand by and serve them, in one religion or, in another, they condemn (and torture-kill if empowered) all those who do not support their particular collective mythic fantasy of being eternal courtiers ceaselessly praising God on a throne in a sexless, G-rated version of Heaven that appeals to adult lovers of Disneyland.

It is not the religious function of the human psyche that is at fault, neither is it the dated, millennia-old renderings of religious visionary experience that could only be conveyed in the limited symbols of political structure (e.g., God as King, hence Kingdom of Heaven, Throne of God, 'slaves for Christ,' etc.) because politics was perhaps the most complex system by which metaphors could be constructed to suggest 'heavenly glory' using earthly analogies. Because The Biblical religions are ostensibly tied to history (at least general locations even if specifics have been blurred), the essential themes cannot be re-written into a new Bible based on modern analogies.

The problem with these records of millennia-old visionary experiences is with a certain almost Austistic mentality which is stuck at the "Pre Operational" level of cognition (age 2-6! - Jean Piaget). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_cognitive_development
In the past, I have written that fundamentalist thinking was characterized by "Concrete Operational" thinking, but I retract that position and state this one. There is a psychological blindspot in the psyches of otherwise fully-functioning modern adults when it comes to their global understanding of reality. In this specific domain, logic is not comprehended by children in this cognitive stage, or by fundamentalist thinkers who have this particular learning disability, and there is an egocentricity which is expanded to mythic proportions. Other individuals' points of view cannot be assumed. It is at once tragic and very dangerous for such individuals to be in positions of power as is evidenced by the political status of the planet today.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7698756 - 11/30/07 02:36 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

We are ALL overwhelmed by the uncertainty of it all

Here's what I'm getting at. Our inability to own our uncertainty.

I have been doing my own research on belief and find that our beliefs are so much the result of past experience and cultural training. For instance in a book on brain research I read they looked at an atheist who was able to produce mystical experience in himself in the manner of religious folk and the likes of Tolle in his first experience (in fact this person had is first experience spontaneously and it sounded almost exactly like Tolle's, yet the conclusion he came to from this is that there is no God and you had better make the most of this life because it's all you get. This realization brought him great peace according to him.) I found this most interesting and suspect that the mystical experience of God is a naturally occurring component of the biology of the human brain and may only be a result of the complex nature of our brain function or could be a fact of all animal life and more and yet not be evidence of a creative force that is intelligent and aware. There is just no way to know for sure. Everything comes down to belief. We just don't have the infinite capacity to know what is true. Every belief we have is based on how our brain functions and we do not know what if anything is in operation outside of that awareness.

I have no problem with anyone believing in God. If they tell me it's a for sure reality though then I need more than their word as I straddle the fence.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,661
Last seen: 21 days, 21 hours
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7698775 - 11/30/07 02:43 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Fundamentalists are so 'certain' of the specialness (which is just pathological ego-inflation) that they blow themselves up for a heavenly f**k-fest with celestial virgins, while their deceased wives get to stand by and serve them, in one religion or, in another, they condemn (and torture-kill if empowered) all those who do not support their particular collective mythic fantasy of being eternal courtiers ceaselessly praising God on a throne in a sexless, G-rated version of Heaven that appeals to adult lovers of Disneyland.


:lol:

One wonders whether God would get self-conscious about the whole affair at some point.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: Lion]
    #7698817 - 11/30/07 02:52 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Any self conscious god sounds pretty human to me. Just another example of how we imagine god in our own image.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 2 months, 23 days
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: Icelander]
    #7700037 - 11/30/07 07:27 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think that all mystical experiences sound questionable to those who have not had them. I know that some of my own experiences have shed light on why others (classic accounts like those in R.M. Bucke's book Cosmic Consciousness) have written their accounts. Most of my experiences could be fit into whatever framework I was 'into' at the time. When, during my early experiences with Morning Glory seeds and acid, I saw silvery doiley-kaleidoscopic wheels rotating in the sky, I interpreted them as 'magick circles,' and I got the message that I should continue to pursue magick, as I was into ceremonial magick at the time. Later on in my personal evolution, when I had been introduced to Tibetan Buddhism and Jungian psychology, I saw 'mandalas,' to give a concrete example.
When I dropped acid on Rosh Hashana while at college, and I had been reading Martin Buber's I and Thou, and hence 'into' Jewish mysticism, I experienced myself as an 'object' and the very sky as a 'Subject' under whose scrutiny I was - YHVH!

Only once did there occur something so utterly alien and ego-transcending that it required an entire book to explain it and it was (fortunately!) described by Lama Govinda's Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism that I was left profoundly convinced of a 'space' which truly exists, which is timeless, self-effulgent (as they say), is best described by BE HERE NOW as "Unbearable Compassion," and was as close to Heaven or Nirvana as my highest, smartest consciousness could ever entertain. The problem for me in my ordinary reality is that I go back to asking myself stupid questions like "Does it really last forever?," as if
forever means unending duration in time. Does Heaven/Nirvana 'last?' is a nonsensical question. One's questioning ego dissolves into an ecstatic intensity - gladly I might add - so that there is a blissful annihilation in THAT which may well be eternal, but no need to worry about whether it will 'get old' because that again is a stupid notion. The ego is ecstatically overwhelmed with ineffable radiant love (for lack of anything else to say) - the fulfillment of every misguided search for acceptance and fearlessness that we've ever sought here through all kinds of ego self-mastery games. Does everyone experience this 'Clear Light' thusly? No, I don't think so. I think it is an annihilating terror for the dense, 'greedy angry and ignorant' who comprise the multitudes of humanity.

In other words, the 'Transcendent Dimension' exists, and not as a mere human idea but as the Universal unmediated Consciousness that some of us carbon-based life-forms will resonate with - those of us who have endeavored to be transformed into Diamond Bodies allowing the Light to fill our consciousness until 'we' Realize that we ARE that Light. I can imagine (I'd like to believe, but I'll not assume that stance), that our fear of extinction, death - will die with an ecstatic laugh in the final nanoseconds when our mind dissolves along with all its wrong thoughts, and our Hearts will expand with the Infinite Ecstasy of what we've always been all along. I've turned on people who wept when they broke through the fear that going within would reveal an ugly being, and they realized that they were beautiful! I think this kind of experience is just a dim precursor to the Real Deal. As Paul said, 'now, we see through a glass, but darkly - then face to face' - with Ecstasy!


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7702566 - 12/01/07 02:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Does everyone experience this 'Clear Light' thusly? No, I don't think so. I think it is an annihilating terror for the dense, 'greedy angry and ignorant' who comprise the multitudes of humanity.

:lol: Luckily you're not one of them.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 2 months, 23 days
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: Icelander]
    #7702926 - 12/01/07 04:03 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Well...one never knows, does one? Apparently it is a matter of 'degree' or of 'purity' in the sense of one's anger-greed-ignorance being 'thin' enough not to interfere with one's 'intention' (or as you might prefer, 'intent'). However, unlike most everyone I meet and know, this very concern has not even occurred to them, so they are not working on themselves. As Ram Dass once noted, we are poor evaluators of our own progress on this trip. Sometimes I can almost taste it, and I have had glimpses of something that seems pretty close to others' descriptions, so I think I can expect a positive encounter with the 'Great Pumpkin' :wink:.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7705723 - 12/02/07 09:44 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Well...one never knows, does one?

Here I agree. The rest is you describing your personal subjective belief system. I'm not saying it isn't true, but in general we like to be the hero of our own story.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,661
Last seen: 21 days, 21 hours
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: Icelander]
    #7705741 - 12/02/07 09:50 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Well...one never knows, does one?

Here I agree. The rest is you describing your personal subjective belief system. I'm not saying it isn't true, but in general we like to be the hero of our own story.


yeah. it's a pretty funny joke that reality plays on all of us, making us believe we're the ones making progress.

*pats self on back*


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: Lion]
    #7705769 - 12/02/07 10:08 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

We seem to have self-importance built right in. Most humility is false and even if we are the villain of our story we think we are a very important villain.

It gets so subtle that some folk believe they are evolved. :lol::monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 2 months, 23 days
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: Icelander]
    #7706628 - 12/02/07 03:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

There is nothing systematic about my experiences and experiences are not beliefs. I have endeavored to familiarize myself with traditions which have developed around the experiences of their founders in order to find the correct place in my life for these phenomenologically similar experiences. I could not deduce anything further from such experiences, and even to express 'hope' for a 'Final' experience to be similar to one of my own might be selling myself short.

If fearlessness (and hence total acceptance) is the hallmark of "the hero," I am not yet a hero, but I am on a heroic journey with the ever-present potential of seeing things from this liberated seat of consciousness. It comes in glimpses: kenshos and satoris. You've had them, I've had them and it's a matter of deciding their true value. THAT, I believe, is "Right Belief."



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,173
Loc: Solar Circuit
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: Icelander]
    #7707372 - 12/02/07 06:51 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Truth is unknowable and unprovable.




reason is an effort to know the unknown
and intuition is the happening of the unknowable.
to penetrate the unknowable is possible,
but to explain it is not.
the feeling is possible,
the explanation is not.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 months, 6 days
Re: The man who mistook his belief for a fact. [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7707420 - 12/02/07 07:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

yeah, knowledge is information put into perspectice/context. That is what we regard as truth.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains, USA West Coast Strains   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Amazon Morning Glory Seeds

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* zalu the beliefe in life JameZTheNewbie 907 10 01/14/04 09:13 PM
by Renegade8
* The Unprovable Nature of Faith and Belief
( 1 2 all )
DoctorJ 2,542 33 08/11/03 09:13 AM
by fireworks_god
* no beliefs kaiowas 910 19 04/21/04 12:01 PM
by kaiowas
* Exsistance is pointless... (prove me wrong, plz)
( 1 2 3 all )
ShrooomKing 3,912 45 04/22/11 10:20 PM
by jjdiggincrates
* Faith vs Belief ZenGecko 1,059 8 07/02/04 05:27 PM
by Swami
* Dreadfully Jealous KB1EWE 531 10 06/09/06 05:16 PM
by Icelander
* human centric belief systems.
( 1 2 all )
truekimbo2 2,150 22 05/03/04 09:31 PM
by ParabolaChair
* The nature of self-serving beliefs
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 7,195 28 10/13/02 02:12 AM
by johnnyfive

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
12,296 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Cannabis Seeds UK
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.038 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 17 queries.