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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Maria Sabina speaking about mushrooms [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7691604 - 11/28/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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OK, you win. *Shmoopy tosses out 5 pounds of dried cubes*
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The underlying message between "look at the irrational natives and thier silly supersitions" is "we're better because we're rational."
You almost got it right, but not quite. The Spanish Conquistadors and their priests said "Look at the irrational natives and their silly supersitions. We better supplant them with our silly superstitions."
To my knowledge there has never been an army of scientists/rationalists using any more aggression than words to try to enlighten others.
You get one guess as to:
How many doors I have knocked on to promote my ideas. How many ceremonies I have disturbed because I thought they were silly. How many churches I have stood outside handing out atheist pamphlets.
You might be surprised to know that I made many friends and pen pals in Tonga during their eight-day independence celebration. The ceremonies included ancient dress, dance, song and traditional dishes. They may never recover from my disturbing presence.
You follow with the caveat that I probably personally did no harm to third-world cultures, yet others with my ideas have - therefore I share some guilt. You win yet another award for worst extrapolation ever on P&S.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
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Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Quote:
To my knowledge there has never been an army of scientists/rationalists using any more aggression than words to try to enlighten others.
Eugenics. Forced sterilization. Electro-shock 'therapy'. Pavlov's dogs. Vivisection. There are many examples of 'rational' forms of oppression. Authoritarian state communism strongly idealized rationality. You are deluding yourself if you think that religious freaks are the only people who've ever found justification for being shitbags.
I'm not laying a guilt trip on you or anyone. I wouldn't blame some some old Irish Catholic woman for the Crusades. That's just silly.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Maria Sabina speaking about mushrooms [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7691835 - 11/28/07 06:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I see. Mao Tse Tung and Hitler were scientists... 
I think the only way to settle this dispute and end this dead-horse-beaten thread is a mud wrestling match.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I see. Mao Tse Tung and Hitler were scientists... 
Are you a scientist? One needn't be a scientist to follow the ideology of scientism, or any other ideology supposedly based on reason and empiricism.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


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Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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If I remember correctly, The Nazi's engaged in all kinds of torturous medical experiments on Jews. Scientists carried out these experiments, often with some kind of poorly developed 'greater good' justification. Rational thinking does not prevent a person, scientist or otherwise, from being swayed by a shitty idea.
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vaportrail
upandaway



Registered: 10/07/05
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The raquetball analogy was amazing.  Our conclusion is speculation, a value judgement is justified as we are extracting hindsight which could be used in our own lives for the betterment of ourselves or others. As long as we accept the fact that we are judging a speculation of what occurred, thereby placing no judgement on Maria herself. Then again, speculative hindsight isn't really valid material, rather an excellent source of humour. I would say she could have used a taste of her own medicine!
-------------------- and the hippos were boiled in their tanks
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,414
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Re: Maria Sabina speaking about mushrooms [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7691985 - 11/28/07 06:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
If I remember correctly, The Nazi's engaged in all kinds of torturous medical experiments on Jews.
And thanks to their sacrifice we know know how much cold a human body can endure.
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Scientists carried out these experiments, often with some kind of poorly developed 'greater good' justification.
Scientists are people with flaws who sometime follow the scientific method. Your point is?
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Rational thinking does not prevent a person, scientist or otherwise, from being swayed by a shitty idea.
If person A thinks an idea is non-shitty (you could choose a better descriptor) and person B thinks an idea is shitty; who is right? You?
Rational thinking prevent a person from making an irrational decision. It is an amoral process.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Frankly, I'm a little skeptical as to whether any idea is inherently rational. I think it depends on the debate skills of the person arguing the case for it.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Maria Sabina speaking about mushrooms [Re: Silversoul]
#7692012 - 11/28/07 06:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Please explain to me how to Think Rationally. I did not realize there was such a thing as an infallible perspective from which to observe the universe.
I'm willing to accept "rational" as an adjective, but "rationality" as a philosophy or way of life does not exist.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (11/28/07 06:44 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Thinking Rationally is to agree with what OC believes in. Irrationality is any belief which contradicts his.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
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I was responding to this statement:
To my knowledge there has never been an army of scientists/rationalists using any more aggression than words to try to enlighten others.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,414
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Re: Maria Sabina speaking about mushrooms [Re: Silversoul]
#7692079 - 11/28/07 06:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Frankly, I'm a little skeptical as to whether any idea is inherently rational.
You are communicating to me via a computer (+ electricity + servers + software + switchers, etc.) - based totally on rational thought.
Total number of members * postcounts via computer = hundreds of thousands.
Total number of members * postcounts via telepathy or telekinesis (irrational ideas) is ZERO.
Rational ideas have a basis with one idea following another in a logical fashion and have internal consistency.
Irrational ideas have little or no basis with one idea piled haphazardly upon another and are usually internally inconsistent.
Not to be insulting, but if you cannot distinguish the two...
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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An idea, statement, or opinion can be rational. An avenue of thought can be rational. However, rationality is no more than the ability to make rational decisions; it is not a world-view or a philosophy, and it is impossible for any person to hold a 100% rational perspective.
When you parade about the word "rationality" as a justification for your opinions it sounds a lot like fundamentalists waving around the word "Christ" or "Allah." The logic is about the same. A truly rational argument will stand on its own, without having to be designated as such.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (11/28/07 07:50 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
Total number of members * postcounts via telepathy or telekinesis (irrational ideas) is ZERO.
Prove it.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Maria Sabina speaking about mushrooms [Re: Silversoul]
#7696703 - 11/29/07 08:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Total number of members * postcounts via telepathy or telekinesis (irrational ideas) is ZERO.
Prove it.
Got 'im there.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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The Swami (now The Shmoopy) $20,000 Telepathy Challenge has no end date and is still open.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Too bad you were the one who made the claim, not me.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Maria Sabina speaking about mushrooms [Re: Silversoul]
#7697625 - 11/30/07 04:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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lots of na na na boo boo in this thread btw the telepathy challenge regards empathy and telepathy as a commodity or power to be debunked.
anyone who has experienced empathy or telepahy can admit that the experience is closer to a curiosity and affliction than to a power.
for instance, without any prompting and completely out of habit, in the middle of an unusually busy day, I drove to my daughter's house - as I quizzically pulled up to park, (around the corner to her building - i.e. not in sight or anything) she called me all distraught and emotional on the cell phone asking for help.
such events happen all the time, are normal, are not in scope of explanation, amazing, and not a problem.
this is more like the kind of thing that happens; classed as telepathy - it is a curiosity, but as phenomena in general, it does not need an explanation. There is absolutely no apparent cause or effect, merely synchronicity.
this kind of thing which is difficult to describe, can't reasonably be configured into an experiment, and in the end, who is challenging whom in the schmoopy challenge?
Maybe schmoopy would like to be on equal terms with the universe, or at least be the local elected representative in charge of cynicism.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Maria Sabina speaking about mushrooms [Re: redgreenvines]
#7697634 - 11/30/07 04:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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R.O.C. - I like it! 
Some 10,000 claims over a lifetime - every single one false or non-demonstrable. Cynicism is realizing that the next claim is also likely to be false? Perhaps that is called wisdom and learning.
Do you still believe in Santa as a real live entity? If yes, you are stupid. If no, you are a cynic. See how the game is played?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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I never said people are all clever, nor do I think they can describe what is going on. which was cause, which was effect and even what is happenning when they think something (zero in on that one with your alacrity please)
naturally the claims to cause effects when the claimers are part of the effect are completely bogus. (the schmoopy challenge is also in that category except for correctly claiming that claims of powers are ridiculous)
testers also do not know what to look for, either in what happenned or what they are trying to watch.
everyone understands this at their own capacity.
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see how the game is played?
which game?
understanding is not competitive. some things are not understood yet, which does not mean they do not exist.
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