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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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NA
#7682030 - 11/26/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Seriously though, eating healthy and exercising are both great
Edited by mlo517 (03/23/16 12:04 PM)
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WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7682062 - 11/26/07 02:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mlo517 said: the whole world is only a view from my own perception and feelings alone. For some reason, this bothers me, and ive had a lot of anxiety because of it.
That's the way reality is... it is subjective and experienced only from your point of view. Realizing that suddenly might come as a shock, but it isn't a bad thing. You are getting closer to understanding life. The truth can be scary sometimes.
Here's an article on the subjectivity of reality to help you make sense of it:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/05/subjective-reality-qa/
Part 2:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/05/more-subjective-reality-qa/
Part 3:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/05/subjective-reality-qa-3/
You are on a path to greater understanding. Yes, things have changed, and no, you can't go back. That is ok.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#7682129 - 11/26/07 02:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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try some breathing exercises. I used to have scatterbrain and sparatic thoughts but I realized it was all in my breathing. I would get so into my head my breathing patterns would be affected. Simply lie down and simple meditation techniques work. Breath in deep and slowly and release deep and slowly. I get a great sense of well being and content. Sooner or later your body will almost always breathe like that and you will be calm.
It's like you know when something startles you and your breath gets ahead of you or you get ahead of it. Well practcing breathing centers yourself so, at least for me, that does not happen. This greatly helped my crazy thoughs and now I can think clearly and I can think about 1 subject for a long period of time.
My old thoughts would be crazy like random ass schizo type thoughts. Really out there shit. I hated it but could not control it.
Give it a try.
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Cowgold
Bullshit


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7682162 - 11/26/07 03:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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1. Occupy your time with things you enjoy.
2. If you have trouble enjoying anything then occupy your time doing things you can tolerate more than others.
3. ????????
4. PROFIT
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jewunit
Brutal!

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Cowgold]
#7682167 - 11/26/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cowgold said: 1. Occupy your time with things you enjoy.
2. If you have trouble enjoying anything then occupy your time doing things you can tolerate more than others.
3. ????????
4. PROFIT

OP: The idea of subjective reality is pretty common. There are tons of places you can read more on it (like what Whiskey posted.) Part of the movie Waking Life talks about it too.
As for the 2 gs of mushrooms, well, that isn't a RIDICULOUS amount to take your first time. That, too, is also subjective. Your friend may have found it to be perfect, but that doesn't mean it was for you. Don't blame your friend or you being an idiot. 2 gs is typically what I recommend to people.
-------------------- !
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: jewunit]
#7682178 - 11/26/07 03:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yea 2g is a legit first dose. I ate 3.5 and I was fine. Probably a mixture of the setting and my size but yea it is different for everyone.
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Tangerines]
#7682271 - 11/26/07 03:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wtf...you take shrooms, get on a different train of thought, and need to take pills because this new train of thought is so tough to handle?
COME ON, no offense, but this is ridiculous. Toughen up. Best of luck.
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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Compass
Ancient Light

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 1,149
Loc: The Border of Reality
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7682313 - 11/26/07 03:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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aksept Xis and muuv on bai see.eeng xat Wee kreeaat Xis Reealitee tuugexur /
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cube talk
Stranger

Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 1,223
Last seen: 1 month, 12 days
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Compass]
#7682343 - 11/26/07 03:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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set and setting, as always. Thats your answer.
And also, you need to look at where you are at in life. From my experiences, if your not proud of it and can look back recently with a smile, your trips are going to reflect that.
--------------------
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Caribou_Lou
Stranger


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 2,510
Loc: Never Land
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: cube talk]
#7682471 - 11/26/07 04:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Some idiot told you to take 2 grams? Two grams isn't shit I recommend an eighth for the first time, you need to chill out and just go with it. You can't try to fight it, and there's no reason to think you're going crazy how do you not realize you just ate mushroom? You can't let mushrooms make you feel bad, you need to realize that before you were ignorant and now you know something that you didn't before. Would you want to go your whole life being oblivious?
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Cowgold
Bullshit


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7682507 - 11/26/07 04:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Honestly there isn't a good answer on how things are or how they should be. But pretending that you are at the center of everything seems to work for most.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,084
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 14 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7682586 - 11/26/07 04:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Help me understand why it frightens you to know that life is subjective. I'm not being a smart ass. I just don't understand. Maybe I'm just all high and can't comprehend but help me out.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Post deleted by mlo517<p>Reason for deletion: NA
Edited by mlo517 (03/23/16 11:49 AM)
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7682617 - 11/26/07 04:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Seriously, have you tried any sort of meditation techniques? They really can make peace in your mind.
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Cowgold
Bullshit


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7682622 - 11/26/07 04:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mlo517 said:
maybe i just needed a solid label for this realization to calm my mind?
Needing something always calms mine. 
Edit: I'll throw a quote so you'll know what I was refering to.
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Post deleted by mlo517<p>Reason for deletion: NA
Edited by mlo517 (03/23/16 11:49 AM)
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,084
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 14 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7682642 - 11/26/07 04:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I can't figure out why something that you're so happy about is making you so upset. You're happy, right?. 
Try mediation, as others have suggested. It sounds like you just need to recognize and control certain emotions in your brain. We all need to do that but right now, it's imperative that you learn how to keep negative emotions from taking control of you. You have to recognize the emotion and then it loses power over you, which allows for positive emotions to come through.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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sleepy
zZzZzZzZz


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 3,888
Loc:
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7682651 - 11/26/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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good luck dude!
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Cowgold
Bullshit


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7682655 - 11/26/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was being sarcastic. "Need always calms my mind."
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Post deleted by mlo517<p>Reason for deletion: NA
Edited by mlo517 (03/23/16 11:50 AM)
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7682686 - 11/26/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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exactly, and use that new knowledge to better yourself in any way possible. If it means breaking old habits or just a general attitude change. change is good and mushrooms can bring exponential change that is for sure. Good luck man.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,084
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 14 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7682696 - 11/26/07 05:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's possible that subjective reality is the entire meaning of life. Perhaps just one source of energy is at the root of all life. Perhaps this source of energy created subjective reality in order to know itself. Perhaps this source of energy caused it's many incarnations to forget about their true nature in order to play this game.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
Edited by Learyfan (11/26/07 05:09 PM)
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Compass
Ancient Light

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 1,149
Loc: The Border of Reality
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Learyfan]
#7682713 - 11/26/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ai xink xat Yuu feel uloen and wont Sumwun tuu verufii yuor Egzistens, but it iz just Yuu and yuor Purspektiv ~ yur Reealitee drop.eeng aot frum undur Yuu / especulee in xis Susaiutee uv Gruup Xink
I think that you feel alone and want something to verify your existence, but it is just you and your perspective, like your reality dropping out from under you. Especially in this society of Group Think.
-------------------- nystagmus dopamine guru inverted pop culture love scars of sorrow fleshy synesthesia hippie farts perpetual tinnitus Reclaim the Swastika!
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,084
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 14 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Compass]
#7682732 - 11/26/07 05:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I guess, dude.
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Learyfan]
#7682740 - 11/26/07 05:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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With no UNDERstanding, we FALL. right? I read that somewhere here.
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sleepy
zZzZzZzZz


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 3,888
Loc:
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Tangerines]
#7682761 - 11/26/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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i think we all experience reality differently. all of our experiences are real, ram dass has said this and i agree, because real is just a word.
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!


Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,084
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 14 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Tangerines]
#7682765 - 11/26/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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You're confusing me. I'm all high and confused. 
-------------------- -------------------------------- Mp3 of the month: The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday
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sleepy
zZzZzZzZz


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 3,888
Loc:
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: sleepy]
#7682778 - 11/26/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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i was misunderstanding. but the key is that we can control what we experience by choice. our subjective reality can be altered, thats the trick, you choose what you experience. set and setting
Edited by sleepy (11/26/07 05:30 PM)
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AliceDee
-L S D-


Registered: 08/10/03
Posts: 3,957
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: sleepy]
#7682847 - 11/26/07 05:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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so you guys are saying my perception of things arent the same as your guys'??? holy shit im freaking out man!!!vasjfsdkjfkjgsdbjabsd,fjAD<.fjnsadkjfgbskjdfbgkhsdf
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Compass
Ancient Light

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 1,149
Loc: The Border of Reality
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: AliceDee]
#7682920 - 11/26/07 06:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There's a difference between saying it rationally and feeling it in your bones.
You're doing a disservice to the psychedelic experience, which is beyond words.
It's about coming to grips with transience, and knowing in this world of science, that the most important things, like reality, cannot be proven.
Seeing how objective reality, which pervades education and culture in the western world, is nothing but an abstract concept.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Compass]
#7682962 - 11/26/07 06:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Please don't take medications, dude. You need to let those thoughts flow through you and let them work themselves out. It could take several weeks and deep breathing will help. I think the anxiety is trying to push you to create your own reality, IMO.
--------------------
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Compass]
#7683062 - 11/26/07 07:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Compass said: There's a difference between saying it rationally and feeling it in your bones.
You're doing a disservice to the psychedelic experience, which is beyond words.
It's about coming to grips with transience, and knowing in this world of science, that the most important things, like reality, cannot be proven.
Seeing how objective reality, which pervades education and culture in the western world, is nothing but an abstract concept.
So what!?
You really are getting worked up so much over knowing this that you need medication? There's no reason to, because getting worked up over it doesn't do shit! Bingo, problem solved.
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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Compass
Ancient Light

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 1,149
Loc: The Border of Reality
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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I'm not the OP, and he doesn't have to stay on the prescription forever
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evolprim
human



Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 1,226
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7683119 - 11/26/07 07:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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yeah dude reality is a trip. if its any hope or comfort. i am pretty sure that almost everyone on the shroomery who trips, let alone all the other non trippers, or non shroomerites, have had some similar "life changing realization" at some point in their life. the key is to roll with it. 
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: evolprim]
#7683210 - 11/26/07 07:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This happened to me once. I needed medication too. If you feel like you need it and it's helping you, don't freak. You're probably experiencing a mild form of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. A really simple SSRI should help you a lot. My problem wasn't so much the subjectivity of reality, it was the fact that I Obsessed over the experience to the point where it totally consumed me.
Personally, I don't like mushrooms. They don't mesh with my chemistry. I'm more interested in something cleaner.... like a crystal...
What's happened to you is you've lost faith in your third person perspective. Third person perspective (the reflection of the realities of other people) is what keeps us grounded in reality. You have to realize that all realities (no matter how subjective) and all people, no matter how strange, are all a part of you. You have to trust them like you would trust yourself, to a degree. Once you regain this trust, your reality will be more stable.
The lesson is that your own reality taken by itself can be interesting, but you live in a world where you have to interface with another set of realities. If you can't go back to knowing that somehow, you'll continue on a path of subjectivity and, like some of my friends, follow fictional owls of your own imagination through a patch of trees, or start talking loudly to your pizza in a public place and get the cops called on you.
Everything will be fine. You just have to recover and put yourself back into mundanity for a while.
And stop obsessing over it. Try to go a whole day without thinking about it.
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: kriminalelement]
#7683443 - 11/26/07 08:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
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Tangerines




Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 17,918
Loc: woodwork
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7683463 - 11/26/07 08:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mlo517 said: wait so youre saying i can go crazy from this?!?!
Yea its only a matter of time before it eats you from the inside out until you are a soulless being simply walking the earth.
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: Tangerines]
#7683482 - 11/26/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7683487 - 11/26/07 08:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's possible, but these people were under a lot of strain.
It's not permanent, but if you don't stop freaking out about shit, you're mind will break under the stress. Long periods of stress can cause your brain to give out. It's not the shrooms, it's just how you're REACTING. Change your reaction.
Like I said, take a simple SSRI. Don't take anything that fucks with your dopamine/norepeniphrine levels, because this will actually exacerbate symptoms of racing thoughts, hyperactivity, and anxiety. Try to take something with a bit more of a sedative effect.
Either that or you can get on a mild anti-psychotic, but I wouldn't recommend it because it doesn't sound like you are going crazy. It just sounds like you keep stressing out over a traumatic event, which can make you a little off-balance.
But yeah, I have seen people go off the deep end after some heavy mushroom trips. Most of them freaked out for a while and then got over it. Two of them had to be hospitalized. One of those two totally FLIPPED. He saw demons running around in a field of corn battling each other TOTALLY SOBER. He was so violent he had to be strapped down to a table.
But they're both fine now. The important thing to remember is that ITS NOT PERMANENT, you will return to a state of normality and you just have to ride it out until it's over. Just like tripping. If you start to freak and think you're going crazy, you WILL go crazy. Like you said, reality is all in the mind.
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: kriminalelement]
#7683507 - 11/26/07 08:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
Edited by mlo517 (11/26/07 08:55 PM)
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Compass
Ancient Light

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 1,149
Loc: The Border of Reality
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7683514 - 11/26/07 08:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Don't worry we're all crazy here, and we don't bite.
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Compass]
#7683543 - 11/26/07 09:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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if your racing thoughts are gone then you probably are not going to go nuts, that's the thing that did me and a few friends in. Luckily, I realized what was going on and got on an anti-depressant before I went totally nuts. The racing thoughts are what will drive you nuts, not the anxiety. When the anxiety is gone you should be able to get of the celexa. That shit tends to reset your neurobiology to a normal state.
Being anxious isn't going nuts, it's totally normal. The thing you really have to worry about is the racing thoughts, which you have under control.
YOU ARE NOT GOING CRAZY!!!!! The panic attacks will subside and you'll be back to normal in a few months. If I ever start to have a panic attack, I either get in the tub or read a book. Is there any normal activity that you have that calms you down? Do that whenever you freak.
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
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HELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag



Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 84,387
Loc: Afghanistan
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7683563 - 11/26/07 09:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Embrace those feelings, then take 4 grams.
--------------------
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HELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag



Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 84,387
Loc: Afghanistan
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7683566 - 11/26/07 09:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Get off that shit, anti-depressants are for bitches.
Handle reality, don't be a pussy.
--------------------
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
#7683591 - 11/26/07 09:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
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HELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag



Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 84,387
Loc: Afghanistan
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7683599 - 11/26/07 09:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Deal with shit, don't just take some meds and try to forget about it.
What is bothering you?
--------------------
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
#7683677 - 11/26/07 09:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: NA
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Brugman
antisobrietarian



Registered: 05/16/01
Posts: 15,887
Loc: the land up over
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7683724 - 11/26/07 10:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This Will Shape You.
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RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader



Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13,617
Loc: Straight Outta Compton
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Brugman]
#7683731 - 11/26/07 10:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Smoke some 1000x Salvia and you shall find the meaning of life..
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kriminalelement
"jesus wept."



Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,201
Loc: Ay! los popos estan aqui!
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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man, sometimes you need meds, going nuts is really not good. it doesn't enlighten you, it can just confuse you and really fuck up your life.
-------------------- While there is a lower class, I am in it While there is a criminal element, I am of it While there is a soul in prison, I am not free. Eugene V Debs
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HELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag



Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 84,387
Loc: Afghanistan
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Medication is for the weak.
Learn to deal with your problems, we're becoming a medicated society and that's weak.
Fucking people.
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HELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag



Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 84,387
Loc: Afghanistan
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
#7683827 - 11/26/07 10:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here, watch this and be happy.
It's an autistic person, but it will cheer you up.
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evolprim
human



Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 1,226
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
#7684100 - 11/27/07 12:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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man i gotta say i agree with hella. learn from this experience, its not that medication is for the weak but moreso that if you spend enough time with yourself working out your new feelings YOU WILL BE FINE. what are you worried about going crazy for anyway? plenty of crazy people are happy living on the streets, not saying that anxiety or racing thoughts will drive you crazy but still..also your feelings of detachment are all a result of your anxiety and are not rooted in reality.
keep us posted on how you are doing the members of the shroomery are looking out for you.       
good vibes your way man
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kane.ish
the ish


Registered: 10/20/07
Posts: 60
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Cowgold]
#7684218 - 11/27/07 12:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mlo517 said: ...I've sort have been living in my own reality...
Once you crack the door of perception, it can be tough to close it again
Quote:
mlo517 said: So basically, Is there any way to actually tell if my view is accurate, or does it manifest strictly from my perspective
If you aren't sure if your perception/perspective is accurate, then test it. Ask questions and investigate what you perceive.
You will always have a bias to your perception, but understanding that you do might help you to see around it somewhat.
-------------------- my cat knows my password, so it can be assumed that any and all posts I make are the result of the cat using the computer.
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razmablues
Biologist




Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 2,403
Loc: OrangeCounty
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
#7684477 - 11/27/07 02:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
HELLA_TIGHT said: Embrace those feelings, then take 4 grams.
took the words out of my mouth.
once you start understanding these new feelings and truths you have, your mentality seems to be getting more stable. take more you'll see the beauty in what you've realized! similar thing happened to me.
but of course you must assess your situation for yourself. good luck brother!
-------------------- soft silly music is meaningful, magical
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.



Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: razmablues]
#7684529 - 11/27/07 02:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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you won't go crazy, the fact that you're concerned about your sanity is to me a good sign you're not going to just run with it. the anxiety lessens over time.
don't do more psychedelics, it gets way way way tripper than thinking all reality is subjective. about the time i quit i was dealing with all thought and imagination being impersonal and objective. (thought being something that lives outside of us and uses us as vessels).
don't assume everything drugs show you is automatically the absolute truth, it is often just a different perspective than you've seen before, but not all encompassing
reality is not subjective. there is an objective universe that people perceive with the proper sense organs. if you have eyes and your friend has eyes, if you both look at a lamp, you're both seeing the same lamp, not both of you seeing a different lamp. of course it is possible to influence your perceptions of physical things to such a point where you either see things that aren't there, or don't see things that are there, and lots of shades in between, but this is usually not a problem unless you're doing alot psychedelics or have severe mental problems (which is i'm pretty sure you don't from your post, you have normal mental problems that resolve themselves with time as long as you don't do anything to instigate it). people do have the ability to sync perception, feeling and thought, you are not always infinitely alone. people normally operate in semi-sync, but it is possible to achieve states where you and other people experience things exactly the same. i think its called inter-subjectivity.
i encourage you to test that hypothesis on your own, i'm pretty sure you'll find that you're not living in a completely subjective reality.
drugs show you how complex and hardware based perception is. it can become easy to think when you're tripping that the hardware is less stable than it really is, but actually the brain works to preserve homeostasis (a baseline), and you're only going to mess up your brains homeostasis (and by extension your ability to sync up with other people's realities) if you work at it, either through too much drug use or bizarre meditations. its really not an easy thing so don't worry about it.
as you focus more and more on your normal life and going through routine the psychedelic shock will wear off.
edit: since i mostly addressed the idea that all perception is subjective, i'm just going to stress for the 4th time that you're not going crazy and that the anxiety will not hurt you. if its been going on for months, you've probably already noticed at first it completely fucked you and you might have been scared to do normal everyday stuff. i'm guessing after a month or two you realised you couldn't just not live you life even though you were afriad of going crazy. as time goes by you'll notice the anxiety lessening and lessening.
oh yeah, and for the panic attacks, you should know those are biological not mental. yeah you are getting scared, but during a panic attack your brain dumps all its fear chemicals into your system all at once, thats why it feels like you're going crazy, because you are getting high off your brains own fear response. thats why it doesn't last more than 10 minutes or something like that, because your brain runs out of chemicals. usually the panic attack itself isn't so bad, but the worrying that another one will happen and that you'll go crazy. i assure you panic attacks don't make people go crazy, and they can only last a certain amount of time. tripping too much made me have them too, i got rid of them in about a month by repeating this to myself:
everytime i would feel a panic attack coming on i would say to myself "okay if i'm defintely going to have this panic attack then there is nothing i an do about it, but i am going to at least remember that its biological, and i won't lose control of myself, and it will fade, and then i'll be back to normal and can continue with what i'm doing within fifteen minutes or so."
so i would just repeat this to myself, and at first it helped me be less afraid of them, as i got less afraid of them i was able to stop them as they were starting by repeating that. after awhile they just completely stopped.
you don't have to use that approach, but for me just knowing that it couldn't kill me or make me crazy or last too long made it better.
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
Edited by truekimbo2 (11/27/07 03:00 AM)
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.



Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: truekimbo2]
#7684531 - 11/27/07 02:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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btw, cowgold. very nice posts. thats pretty much how i deal with too much psychedelic thought.
mushroom says: your thoughts are not yours, you're swimming through a mental soup, that is actually just coming from higher dimensional entities.
me: you're right, i do need a new ipod, i guess i could pick up some extra hours from work, now i have to go play video games.
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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sleepy
zZzZzZzZz


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 3,888
Loc:
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: truekimbo2]
#7684633 - 11/27/07 05:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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insanity is a rhinocerous. salvador dali said that
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sleepy
zZzZzZzZz


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 3,888
Loc:
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: sleepy]
#7684644 - 11/27/07 05:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by sleepyReason for deletion: http://www.archive.org/details/gd67-05-05.sbs.yerys.1595.sbeok.shnf
Edited by sleepy (11/27/07 06:05 AM)
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: sleepy]
#7686050 - 11/27/07 01:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
Edited by mlo517 (11/27/07 01:24 PM)
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Compass
Ancient Light

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 1,149
Loc: The Border of Reality
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: mlo517]
#7686242 - 11/27/07 02:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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You can get through it, just lay off the psychedelics and work on yourself for awhile until you can get off the meds.
The night after a salvia experience, I reentered the head space for 6 hours due to a series of triggers. I saw the past, present and future changing before my eyes. Things were disappering and names/events were changing from the timeline I thought I knew. I knew everyone was me, and I felt so alone because I could see through the choreography of other humans as part of myself, as much as I was part of the greater creator. To be part of everything, I wondered what was outside myself, I wanted something great and benevolent to save me from my imperfect creation, yet was somewhat perfect. A million paradoxes of the world we know everyday fell through infinity. I felt such intense anxiety I was shaking violently all through the hours, which was of course a much more direct connection to the everlasting moment, not what we are used to. I didn't know how I would survive because it was too much to take. I was crazy. I couldn't eat at all and later I would throw up from the anxiety.
However an elderly stranger appeared to me and I knew he was myself, I knew he was God. He emanated calmness. He was my hope because he had lived a lifetime, just like I would live a lifetime, just like I had lived a lifetime in a moment. In his hands, in his eyes, in his understanding, in his aura, just a different age with different memories and a more powerful control of reality, especially in my state. I was being shown so much, too much. I couldn't believe it was possible, but it was. Life was possible. Everything we create is perfect in its imperfection. Everything had a reason. Difficultly leading to learning, understanding, and acceptance.
As humans we cannot keep that connection to the infinite open forever. I awoke halfway between the infinite and normality, but closer to normality and closer to the infinite.
-------------------- nystagmus dopamine guru inverted pop culture love scars of sorrow fleshy synesthesia hippie farts perpetual tinnitus Reclaim the Swastika!
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Cowgold
Bullshit


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: mlo517]
#7686248 - 11/27/07 02:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just like you read and then believed you had each of the disorders, you have the same ability to believe nothing is wrong. Then go about your life like nothing is wrong and all the little wrinkles and imperfections iron out or no longer matter cause they can't keep up.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7686327 - 11/27/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mlo517 said: well the racing thoughts drive me nuts and make me feel disconnected from reality
what is reality what is connection you are part of a never ending flow of life and death that from a distence resembles and a never ending lotus flower  so sile no need to freak out, panic, or wonder if you are crazy. cus we all have our own shit to work out. or own subjective trips. lifes never gonna be easy. nothings ever gonna just come right to you. you have to sine your light on it
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UnholyChild666
I'M GOD


Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 8,940
Loc:
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Quote:
VisionsToReality said: Wtf...you take shrooms, get on a different train of thought, and need to take pills because this new train of thought is so tough to handle?
COME ON, no offense, but this is ridiculous. Toughen up. Best of luck.
Don't listen to this dumbass, for a lot people there is no toughing it up, a lot of people will never be able to handle it, it's just the way it is, you can really damage yourself.
--------------------
"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack" Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine GOD of the hologram earth
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: mlo517]
#7686347 - 11/27/07 02:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mlo517 said: yeah my problem is that I dont trust my own imagination anymore because i went through two months of diagnosing myself with 10 different mental disorders and applying every single symptom to my daily life/everything that happened around me/my entire past. This all came after a flashback I had, which then triggered some anxiety and made me believe that I was going crazy when really it was nothing at all. So I guess ive gone through two months of conditioning my mind to think that its crazy, so much that it doesnt even trust its own imaginative perceptions anymore because it thinks that its all sourced from craziness/some non-normal perspective. IDK how im gunna get out of this, but im hoping that in time I will recondition myself back to normal. I've come to the conclusion that none of this came from the mushrooms themselves, but only from the the flashback making me think that im crazy, and then me trying to figure out how im actually crazy. This then triggered many racing thoughts that spiraled out of control. I hope I can get out of this, I really loved my life, and I pray to god every day
disorder i only what you make of it. i too have gone down that river. and never. i repeat never distrust your imagination. its is all you will ever be.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: UnholyChild666]
#7686352 - 11/27/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
UnholyChild666 said:
Quote:
VisionsToReality said: Wtf...you take shrooms, get on a different train of thought, and need to take pills because this new train of thought is so tough to handle?
COME ON, no offense, but this is ridiculous. Toughen up. Best of luck.
Don't listen to this dumbass, for a lot people there is no toughing it up, a lot of people will never be able to handle it, it's just the way it is, you can really damage yourself.
dont listen to this dumb ass he shoots smack
--------------------
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: notapillow]
#7686388 - 11/27/07 03:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
Edited by mlo517 (11/27/07 03:10 PM)
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Cowgold
Bullshit


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: mlo517]
#7686394 - 11/27/07 03:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Remember that it's all in your head.
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Cowgold]
#7686415 - 11/27/07 03:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
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Compass
Ancient Light

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 1,149
Loc: The Border of Reality
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: Cowgold]
#7686417 - 11/27/07 03:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, but in that manner, everything is in your head.
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Cowgold
Bullshit


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: mlo517]
#7686435 - 11/27/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Establish a routine so you can go mindlessly through life when you need to. When I start feeling crazy, it's usually when I'm not doing anything. Slow it down for the good parts and be disciplined enough to pick your routine up where you left off.
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: Compass]
#7686437 - 11/27/07 03:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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got news for ya buddy thinking will never go away you will aways ponder be thankful you do. there are too many things you could never will never know. do not work yourself up too much buddy  if you get confused, listen to the music play
--------------------
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: notapillow]
#7686450 - 11/27/07 03:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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your imagination is literaly what you "image" in your head. any place you go, see hear or smell in your head is as real as my fingers hitting the key board riht now. we are all tangled. the realities of yor head, and our dreams reside not on this grid, on this planet, not here not now, but forever and everywhere.
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: notapillow]
#7686497 - 11/27/07 03:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
Edited by mlo517 (11/27/07 03:36 PM)
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mecreateme
YoUisMEEMsiUoY


Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: mlo517]
#7686519 - 11/27/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Don't try to figure out answers man. Just steep in the mystery. There are no answers to the question you ask unless you put your trust in something someone else says.
-------------------- No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT. You are everything's way of feeling itself. Happy Schwag, everygodly!
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: mecreateme]
#7686526 - 11/27/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: mlo517]
#7686542 - 11/27/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: mlo517]
#7686569 - 11/27/07 03:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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read dude. listen to music. questions are always worth far more than answers. no need to feel like you nne to know much of anything just live.
--------------------
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mecreateme
YoUisMEEMsiUoY


Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: mlo517]
#7686586 - 11/27/07 03:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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You would be surprised by what older people have done. Taking psychedelics is almost a rite of passage in this day and age and almost any able-bodied, curious person will usually try them at least once. There is a lot of time in a human life span.
-------------------- No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT. You are everything's way of feeling itself. Happy Schwag, everygodly!
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: mecreateme]
#7686697 - 11/27/07 04:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: mlo517]
#7686716 - 11/27/07 04:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
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notapillow
I want to be a fisherman



Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 31,129
Loc: A rare and different tune
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: mlo517]
#7687069 - 11/27/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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there is no such thing as unseeing. keep that in mind reflection is what shamanism is all about. most of the insight comes after the fact.
--------------------
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some1whoisntme
Stranger


Registered: 09/21/05
Posts: 882
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* [Re: mlo517]
#7687497 - 11/27/07 06:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mlo517 said: well the thing is...i didnt know any of this right after i tripped...i really didnt feel like i discovered anything, it was only once i got the flash back and started thinking that i was crazy that i found all of this out
Quote:
i kinda feel like a genius too...
Man, I want you to really listen to me. You use the word "crazy" a lot. You're thinking that there is a certain way you're supposed to think and if you don't think that way you're crazy and that's bad. As a society, we NEED to think differently. Look at all the people who posted in your thread giving you their individual perspectives. If you're functioning in day to day life and you're able to get food and you're not harming yourself or anyone else, YOU ARE NOT "CRAZY"... Also, you complain about racing thoughts. 40mg of celexa is a very high dose. Citalopram (celexa) is a POWERFUL drug., I took 20mg/day of its e-isomer, Lexapro for a while for very similar reasons to your own and I realize now that that was kind of a mistake. It has very negative effects including states of mania (feeling like a genius, racing, looping/branching thoughts) and heightened anxiety in some people. Just because the company that makes the drug calls it an antidepressant doesn't mean it is going to make you happy, and more is not better. I urge you to get off the meds. You don't need them, you're just anxious because you're beginning to realize some deep truths about your life. Taper your dose down and stop taking it. Your mind and body will thank you. Smoke some weed, maybe.
-------------------- "Ignore the distortion you're forced to percieve and believe that what supercedes is love, but who agrees?"
Edited by some1whoisntme (11/27/07 06:23 PM)
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RuNE
bomberman


Registered: 09/23/00
Posts: 2,331
Loc: tartarus
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7691636 - 11/28/07 05:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not that it's hard to read through 5 pages after 12 hours of work, but forgive me for skipping most of it, or repeating things.
The easiest thing to come to realize is that everyone else is in their own paranoid little world, no better off than you. Which, actually makes us the humans that we are. These are the reasons why we have greed, wars, and bunny sex.
Don't worry tho, a few of our fellow enlightened members see this trend ending in 2012. 
edit: I just realized that the anime Evangelion had this topic as a core to it's epic story. We are all separated by a 'barrier' and that is ourselves. The you that you see, the you that someone else see's, and the you that you try to be.
-------------------- ~Happy sailing~
Edited by RuNE (11/28/07 05:32 PM)
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.



Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9,234
Loc: ny
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: RuNE]
#7706447 - 12/02/07 12:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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evangelion is number 1.
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7708618 - 12/02/07 09:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Is Truth Objective or Subjective?
The morality of mankind (choosing right from wrong), is based on the concept of our truth. When we examine the Holocaust and question the “wrongness” and the “rightness” of the event we are confronted with the basis for what makes wrong and what makes right. What makes Hitler’s Nazi Germany wrong in wanting to conquer the world and kill innocent people in the process? After WWII, this is one of the questions faced at the Nuremberg trials. What basis can the Nazi’s be prosecuted for the acts in the Second World War.
The basis of truth used by Germany was the Darwinian principle of survival of the fittest. The leaders of Germany saw their nation as a superior group a “Stronger People” and the rest of the world as an inferior people, a “Weaker People”. The source of truth derived from the Friedrich Nietzsche taught that man is the source for good and evil.
“Since there is no God to will what is good, we must will our own good. And since there is no eternal value, we must will the eternal recurrence of the same state of affairs.” Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
Hitler adopted Nietzsche view of truth and incorporated this in his own view of what is truth. The Holocaust and the death of millions was the result of this truth.
The stronger must dominate and
not mate with the weaker, which would signify the sacrifice of its own higher nature. Only the born weakling can look upon this principle as cruel, and if he does so it is merely because he is of a feebler nature and narrower mind; for if such a law did not direct the process of evolution then the higher development of organic life would not be conceivable at all...If Nature does not wish that weaker individuals should mate with stronger, she wishes even less that a superior race should intermingle with an inferior one; because in such a case all her efforts, throughout hundreds of thousands of years, to establish an evolutionary higher stage of being, may thus be rendered futile. Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf
The questions faced by Nuremburg trials, is the same question we face today. What truth is the basis of our Moral Law and is truth subjective or objective?
Subjective: 3 a : characteristic of or belonging to reality as perceived rather than as independent of mind : phenomenal
Objective: of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind ²objective reality³
Jesus claimed to be objective Truth,
6Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6
Is it possible to know what Truth is? To find truth we can begin at the most basic premise, it is undeniable. In fact, if you are reading or hearing this you have proved this first basic premise of truth. “Being”, the mere fact you can question truth or yourself means you exist.
First Principles
This is an “Axiom” or “First Principle” according to Aristotle. First principles are self-evident points, demonstrating their existence without proof. For example Rene Descartes famous, “I Think therefore I am”, proves you exist even if someone told you did not exist, you would still have to think about your existence, therefore proving the one who told you did not exist is wrong.
This proves two points in the search for truth.
1. Existence (To be aware of yourself proves existence) 2. Reason (To think about yourself proves reason)
We can logically conclude we exist and we can have reasoned thought about our existence.
Aristotle notes that these first principles are necessary if there is to be any rational thought. In fact, he listed several laws in order to have rational, logical thought.
* The Law of Non-Contradiction: (A is not non-A) Opposite truth claims cannot both be true. For example if an atheist believes God does not exist and a theist believes God does exit, it is impossible for both to be right. Another example of how the LNC works,
If someone were to say, “There is no such thing as truth, and the LNC is meaningless” he has done two things. First, he has assumed that his view is true as opposed to false, and thus he uses the LNC (which of course, implies that the LNC has meaning, because his view is assumed to be meaningful). Second, he has violated the LNC by suggesting that there is no such thing as truth while at the same time and in the same sense insisting there is such a thing as truth—The truth of his own view by doing so , he automatically validates the LNC.” [1]
* The Law of Excluded Middle: (Either A or non-A) This asserts that it is either A or non-A but not both. God cannot exist and not exist. In other words, there is no middle ground, opposites cannot be the same, nothing can hide in the “cracks” between being and not being.
* The Law of Identity: (A is A) This law simply states that something is what we say it is: A is A. When someone says, “I loved the book” it is understood to mean “Book”. Without the law of identity, there would be chaos and language would be incoherent.
Using these basic laws of rational thought, we can examine the logic of certain truth claims, such as, is Truth objective or subjective? Can we find truth?
What is Truth?
Is it true that we exist? To think about the answer proves we exist. Existence proves the state of reality. And to think about yourself, proves reason. These are two axioms or undeniable facts; I exist, and I reason.
Truth: is an expression, symbol or statement that matches or corresponds to its object or referent. Truth must correspond to reality in order to be true.
Absolute Truth: “Something true for all people, at all times and in all places”
Can Truth be relative? (Subjective)
The question of morality being relative is directly linked to its source. If truth is relative then morality can be relative. “Relative Truth” means that truth is subject to the holder of truth.
A great test for relative or subjective truth is the “Gravity Test”. To administer this test one climbs to a high tower such as the Eiffel Tower. If the holder of subjective truth, believes he/she can fly, and since truth is subject to our beliefs then the person should be able to fly. Once the person jumps away from the tower the test begins. They will fly or fall. If they fly without aid then subjective truth is true if they fall and connect with the ground then objective truth is true. Those on the ground will witnesses “Correspondece”. If the person flies then subjective truth will correspond to reality (The flight being real). If the person falls objective truth will correspond to reality. (Gravity being real)
Subjective truth is a popular view held by many people, could all these people be wrong?
What are the main reasons people give for holding the subjective view.
1. Things appear to be true only at some times and not at others.
At one time people believed the earth was flat but today we know it’s a sphere. Someone might say you see truth has changed.
The world was a sphere even when people believed it was flat. Truth did not change, rather we changed from holding a false belief to a true one. Our belief now corresponds with the facts.
2. Things appear to be true only for some people but not for others.
Janice Smith lives in New York City and she feels cold at 9:00 AM Eastern Time on October 1, 2003. Oliver Jones lives in Hawaii at the same time and day but he feels hot. Isn’t this an example of relative truth?
No, the fact is, “Janice Smith is cold on 10/1/2003 at 9:00 AM” is true for Oliver Jones and for the rest of the universe. The fact stands on it’s own it is “absolute”. One hundred years from now that fact will still be absolute for everybody who has ever lived. Oliver feelings of heat have nothing to do with the fact regarding Janice. They are two separate facts.
Problems with Subjective Truth:
1. Relativism is self-defeating:
The relativist believes that subjective truth is true for everyone, not just from them. This is the one thing they cannot believe, if they are relativist. Therefore, if a relativist thinks it is true for everyone, then he believes it is an absolute truth. Therefore, he is no longer a relativist.
2. Relativism is full of contradictions.
If Billy Graham believed God exists and an Atheist believes God did not exist both would be right. God would have to exist and not exist. If the Christian believes Jesus died on the Cross and Muslim believes Jesus did not die on the Cross, both would be right.
3. Relativism means no has ever been wrong.
With Subjective truth, no one could ever be wrong since there is no standard for right and wrong. As long as something is true to holder of truth, it is true even if it is wrong for someone else.
Objections to Absolute Truth
Some reject the idea that “Truth” is absolute because of the following arguments.
1. Some things are relative to others:
Joe is 5’10 and is short compared to Shaquille O’Neal and tall compared to Willie Shoemaker a horse jockey. Therefore, the relativist would say truth is not absolute.
The fact is that Joe is short, compared to O’Neal. Joe is tall, compared to Shoemaker. Those are two absolute facts.
2. No new truths or progress is possible.
If truth were absolute then no new truth would be possible.
Relativist often mistake discovery with truth. The earth was a sphere even when people believed it was flat. All we did is discover the absolute fact. We are merely discovering an “Old” Truth.
New truth is constantly happening. Every second new Truth is coming into existence all over the world as the past meets the future in the present. Once it is true, it is always for every one everywhere.
3. Truth changes with our growth in knowledge.
Our understanding of truth changes not Truth.
4. Absolute truth is too narrow.
Truth corresponds with facts. 4+3=7 is narrow because its not 1,2,3,4,5,6, but its fact. Any “Truth” claim is narrow because truth by it nature means the other option is non-truth (LNC). If that were not the case then no one could claim to have truth, including those believe relativism is true.
5. Absolute truth is dogmatic
Everyone who claims something is true is dogmatic. The claim of truth excludes non-truth.
6. How can you know something is true?
Most people who believe in “Absolute Truth” would admit they do not have a complete grasp on Absolute truth, but knowledge is in degrees. There are things we can be absolute sure; I exist and I can reason. We might logically conclude God’s existence but apart from his revelation, our knowledge of God is limited to what we can observe.
“Absolute Truth” is true regardless of what we believe and think. Absolute truth stands on its own. Absolute truth is absolutely true no matter what evidence there is for it. Truth is what corresponds to the facts. Truth does not change just because we learn something about it.
Agnosticism
This word comes from two Greek words meaning, “A” No and “gnosis” meaning knowledge. This word was coined by T.H. Huxley and means “no knowledge”. An agnostic is someone who claims not to know. There two types of Agnostics “Hard” and “Soft”.
The hard could be labeled Agnostic and the soft skeptic.
The Agnostic says, “I can’t know” while the skeptic says, “I doubt if I can know”.
David Hume The Skeptic:
David Hume, (1711-1776)
Hume conceived of philosophy as the inductive, experimental science of human nature. Taking the scientific method of the English physicist Sir Isaac Newton as his model and building on the epistemology of the English philosopher John Locke, Hume tried to describe how the mind works in acquiring what is called knowledge. He concluded that no theory of reality is possible; there can be no knowledge of anything beyond experience.[2]
David Hume wrote,
If we take in our hands any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.[3]
He believed any statement, which is not mathematical or factual is meaningless. All statements by God would fall outside these categories. All one experiences is just a series of separate sensations. Hume acknowledged the logic of cause and effect. He said,
“I never asserted so absurd a proposition as that anything might arise without a cause”
Hume believed there wasn’t any way to establish the principle of the cause.
Immanuel Kant, The Agnostic (1724-1804)
Kant Agnosticisms was based on the understanding that there was no way to get outside one’s own being and know what reality is, therefore since we cannot know we must be agnostic.
He believed there was an unbridgeable gulf between knowing and being, between our understanding and the nature of reality. What was the cause of the cause? If everything had a cause.
Reply to Agnosticism:
There are different forms of Agnosticism the weak form admits it is possible to know God, and that some might know God. The strong form claims God is unknowable, God cannot be known.
This leaves us with three options;
1. We can know nothing about God…… (Agnosticism) 2. We can know everything about God…. (Dogmatism) 3. We can know something about God…..(Realism)
Agnosticism is self-defeating
If one knows enough about reality in order to affirm that nothing can be known about reality, then one knows something about reality, he cannot affirm in the same breath that all of reality is unknowable. So if one knows nothing about reality then he can’t make a statement about reality. Total agnosticism is self-defeating because it assumes some knowledge about reality in order to deny any knowledge of reality.
Kant argued that categories of thought do not apply to reality, because we can’t know what reality is. This argument is also self-defeating for two reasons.
1. Unless the categories of reality corresponded to those of the mind, no statements could be made about reality, including the very statement Kant made.[4]. 2. To say that one cannot know any more than the limits of the phenomena or appearance is to draw an unsurpassable line for those limits. But you cannot draw such firm limits without surpassing them. It is not possible to contend that appearance ends here and reality beings there unless one can see at least some distance on the other side. In other words, how can one know the difference between appearance and reality unless he already knows both so as to make the comparison.[5]
In conclusion, it is possible to find partial “Absolute Truth” by using reason and logic. However, to find the ultimate source for truth is beyond Man’s finite ability. If Truth is to be found it must be revealed.
And how can we find Truth? As humans, we may search and search and search for knowledge, but we always seek more. This void in our knowledge creates a void where anything seems possible.
But what can we know for sure? The first and most basic thing we can know is this: you are thinking. If you consider you are not thinking, that in itself proves you are. Therefore you cannot escape your mind and existence. It does not make void your existence by the questions of when,what,how but these are questions that can also be answered.
Now you can know you exist. It is a truth that we cannot escape our minds. Our perception of reality is fixed within the fabric of our being both physical and Spiritual. Analyzing our fundamental intuitive senses is pointless. There are no alternative perspectives to fall back on to externally analyze the one we have now. And even if we did, that would become suspect also. However, we do have the ability to self reflect and self-inspect, and these faculties prove very valuable.
What can we then do? Surely we must continue thinking. We know that we exist, and the same perception that we use to know we exist, we also use to examine the outside world. This shows there is in fact evidence that the outside world exists. The fact that we communicate thoughts and feelings to others and can sympathize and accurately give personal advice further gives support that our perceptions are valid.
But it must be admitted that we still don't know everything at this point. Everything looks real, everything seems real, but is it really? At this point there is a void in our knowledge where perhaps anything could be lurking, perhaps even a reality that makes our perceptions invalid.
There are only two ways you can truly know for a fact ultimately what we perceive in this outside world. One is to know everything. The other is to Spiritually perceive God. If we perceive God's eternal nature, we can know that he is the standard by which all things are determined. He is eternal and fathoms all existence. and we can also know that since he is all wise and all knowing and Good, we can trust what he says about reality.This is according to an intuitive Spiritual perception that we perceive in our "hearts" of his divine nature.
I hope also that in reading the above writing, you can see that a subjective philosophy is contradictory and ultimately logically futile. If you cannot comprehend God or not know everything, you cannot definitively make statements of truth, even subjective truth about anything outside of your own mind. The only thing you can do is just consider your own internal thoughts without outside influence. I hope you find as well as I do however, that the outside world seems to be just as real as you are. consider that with your mind you perceive your physical body. Is not the physical body of others equally as valid? And then it continues with the outside world.But as far as reality being ultimately subjective, is impossible to conclude. for to conclude anything as subjective, is a objective statement. It is impossible to make any assertion that is not objective. And if we can find some objective truth, then what forbids us from learning more from that point? Nothing, unless that's all there is to know.
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mlo517
Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Conway, Arkansas
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7714986 - 12/04/07 11:40 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by mlo517Reason for deletion: idk
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/07
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: mlo517]
#7716286 - 12/04/07 04:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was hoping it would help, that's why I'm here.
Keep searching.
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SwizZLe
just plain UBER!



Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 68
Loc: Somewhere above the Rainb...
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Please someone give me some hope [Re: Tangerines]
#7716371 - 12/04/07 04:54 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tangerines said: try some breathing exercises. I used to have scatterbrain and sparatic thoughts but I realized it was all in my breathing. I would get so into my head my breathing patterns would be affected. Simply lie down and simple meditation techniques work. Breath in deep and slowly and release deep and slowly. I get a great sense of well being and content. Sooner or later your body will almost always breathe like that and you will be calm.
It's like you know when something startles you and your breath gets ahead of you or you get ahead of it. Well practcing breathing centers yourself so, at least for me, that does not happen. This greatly helped my crazy thoughs and now I can think clearly and I can think about 1 subject for a long period of time.
My old thoughts would be crazy like random ass schizo type thoughts. Really out there shit. I hated it but could not control it.
Give it a try.
I cannot agree more, breathing is key to self centalization takes away that tumble mind
-------------------- --The word always can be just as dangerous as the word Never!
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