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mordercinstinkt
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Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board.
#7681853 - 11/26/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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A buddy and I decided to try our hand at some B+ after researching and deciding it was a good beginner strain.
My question is about a particular tek that I came across elsewhere, something about crumbling your regular verm & rice flour cakes into a tub to allow for bulk growing.
I would like to try my hand at this with at least one or two of my cakes, but can't seem to find the exact tek anywhere, just the Rye tek.
If anyone could shine some insight onto this matter we'd both appreciate it. Thanks alot!
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: mordercinstinkt]
#7681900 - 11/26/07 01:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I believe its the same process, except rather than using colinised grains to spawn to a bulk susbtrate your using your pf tek cake crumbled up.
PF Cakes can be spawned to many different bulk substrates. So id imagine that u could use most bulk stuff.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: veda_sticks]
#7681925 - 11/26/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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crumble your cake to a Coir substrate at a 4/1 coir/cake ratio.
Use 80/20 coir/coffee instead of 100% coir... optional - add some gypsum
Coir is available anywhere they sell reptiles. its sold as a brick and is in the reptile substrate section..
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
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laten
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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: mordercinstinkt]
#7681931 - 11/26/07 01:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Casing, its with the rest of the teks and info. People also use the casing method to create mono tubs.
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Bob Gratton
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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: laten]
#7682416 - 11/26/07 04:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you're going bulk and you've got a lot of time and motivation I'D suggest using poo and straw. Brf cake are so long to colozine I think using bulk substrate really help getting a great first flush that took so long. That's what i'm doing this right now and I think it's going to be okay, I really don't like the idea of losing all this work if contamition occurs, but I'm already facing this possibility to be prepared. BoB
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DavidP
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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: Bob Gratton]
#7682650 - 11/26/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I followed the same path. If you've figured out how to properly sterilize and inoculate the PF cakes, then that's an excellent start to learning bulk substrate and casing techniques.
Substrate and casing both look like soil but they are different. Substrate is something the mushroom likes to eat, and casing is non-nutritive, just holds in water. You can do just casing or you can do substrate followed by casing.
Coir is often advocated as a casing but mushrooms do love coir and if you use this as a casing, you run the risk of developing a dead, dry layer of mycelium on the surface (overlay) which is not good. There is a recipe on this board for a pH balanced mix of peat moss and vermiculite which is non-nutritive and works well. It's called the 50/50+ tek.
That would be a good starting point for you. So the deal is, you prepare the 50/50 mixture, hydrate it properly and pasteurize (not sterilize) it. I flash pasturize mine in the microwave (5 min on high, stir, 5 min on high, set aside to cool) and that works for me. Once it cools off, get a small pan. Disposable aluminum bread loaf pans are about the right size. Crumble the cake into the pan and then pour the casing in over the pieces, covering them and making a reasonably smooth surface. Don't tamp it down, leave it loose. If you look, there is a very nice illustrated tek on this board that takes you through step by step. The key to this technique is to make SURE your cakes are fully colonized. Wait until they are colonized and then wait three or four more days just to make sure. If your cakes are really truly fully colonized the risk of contamination goes way down. Better to wait too long than not long enough.
This will teach you how to pasteurize, how to hydrate, when and how to mist and other important skills. There will be some trial and error.
Once you have that action down, you can try bulk substrate. That makes it a three step process: 1. Colonize a cake. 2. Mix the cake in with a pasteurized, nutritious substrate like coir, poo, compost, and/or straw; and let that colonize fully. 3. Layer on a thin layer of pasteurized, properly hydrated casing (50/50 or plain verm) and throw it in the fruiting chamber.
Once you have that down, you might want to start looking at the rye technique, which has been adapted to wild bird seed ("wbs") and popcorn among other things, which once you get the hang of it is easier than the PF cakes, imo. That in turn opens the door to learn about agar and liquid culture techniques. Nothing wrong with taking it one step at a time.
Edited by DavidP (11/26/07 05:00 PM)
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: DavidP]
#7682767 - 11/26/07 05:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Very nice helpfull post.
I attempted popcorn once, and ended up with green. But that was due to open air inoc in the kitchen, and probably due to the fact that my inoc hole was covered by a breathable plaster.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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mordercinstinkt
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Registered: 10/18/07
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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: veda_sticks]
#7685981 - 11/27/07 01:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks alot everyone for your help.
I'll definitely look into the tek you advised David, it seems like a good simple tek.
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown



Registered: 10/16/07
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Loc: Michigan
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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: mordercinstinkt]
#7686009 - 11/27/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm a newby too, I used PF tek to noc up Hpoo pans and have had incredible success. PF cakes noc up bulk substrates just as well as grain and they are easier to manage. For me at least. There is a reason PF tek is as popular as it is, ease of tek for beginners
-------------------- Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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Bob Gratton
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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: resptodd]
#7687480 - 11/27/07 06:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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HI resptodd,
what was you yield with hpoo?
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown



Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 674
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: Bob Gratton]
#7687726 - 11/27/07 07:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just started casing three days ago. I'm casing about two pans a night. Just got finished with two right now. I'll tell ya' what. I started with PF tek and was gonna fruit from those but the more I read into this it seemed that casing with Hpoo was the way to go. I started composting Hpoo right away following additive directions I found on the internet. I have three 55 gallon drums of composted and composting Hpoo/straw+. The Hpoo pans I noc'd up, the myc growth is incredible the rhyzomes are astounding I've never seen anything like it the threads stand up on their own like little trees. I am a newby, but in my humble opinion composted Hpoo gives myc exactly what it wants to grow. Want some? PM me.
-------------------- Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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Nibin
Getting there



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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: resptodd]
#7690933 - 11/28/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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what davidp described above is a casing.
You were asking about growing bulk. To grow bulk you have to have your spawn (in your case fully colonized pf cakes) a bulk substrate (i.e as DavidP put it, something that the mushroom likes to eat like horsepoo or coir) and a casing.
First you prepare your bulk substrate (instructions on how to do so in the bulk substrade subsection of the cultivation area of the main site). Once it has been prepared and pasteurized you mix it in with the crumbled cakes and put it away for a few days while the mycelium colonizes all the new substrate.
Then, you prepare your casing layer and add it ontop of the colonized substrate to give it some extra moisture and put into your fruiting chamber
PS; Casing cakes on their own, without adding nutrients is a waste of time. If you don't add more food the cakes will produce the same amount as if they had been dunked and rolled, but with all the hasstle of having to make the casing, crumble and wait the extra time
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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Pr0_X
CultivationLifer



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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: Bob Gratton]
#7691327 - 11/28/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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When useing pfcake's the spawn to bulk ratio's are alot diffrent.
Pf makes very poor spawn but it does work the only trade off is you need more pfcake's, the ratio would be 2:1 PF/Hpoo
Lower spawn ratio's will work but the chance of contamination is greater, you want to maximize the colonization time of the bulk and keep it under seven days.
Read some more article's on spawning pf before you do it or your going to be running the risk of buggering something up.
-------------------- It's okay to hurt my feelings cause you know, they're so numb anyway. but I guess it's what I get for being to fuckin stupid to stay away - Jake - Support the FSR at www.fsrcanada.com and www.fsre.nl
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BuddhaTree
Atomic Nucleus


Registered: 11/25/07
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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: Nibin]
#7693455 - 11/29/07 01:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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What kind of hpoo should be added as a substrate? Anything in particular to look out for or avoid? Do you really need straw? Where the heck do you find straw?
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Edited by BuddhaTree (11/29/07 01:25 AM)
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Nwerd
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Registered: 10/20/07
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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: Bob Gratton]
#7693468 - 11/29/07 01:29 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Pasteurized Horse poo is real resistant to contams and a great bulk substrate... It needs a casing layer, but you don't need much more than 1/4" of casing... I use 3-4" of horse poo for some monsters.
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Pr0_X
CultivationLifer



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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: Nwerd]
#7693999 - 11/29/07 08:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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You can get straw from most pet stores, it's like $5 for a junior bundle or something like that, the hpoo doesn't matter, aslong as you properlly leach it.
This means draining it of amonia that builds up when horses piss on it. You do this just by soaking it in water for a few days, 24-48 and then letting it dry in the sun, when you go to gather it just take it from a older looking pile, should already be pre-leeched.
After you have your leeched hpoo/straw you pasturize it by giving it a hot water bath, bring a pot of water to a 10 minute boil, put your bulk in a water proof container, poor in boiling hot water, let it steep for a hour and a half and remove, squeeze until there is next to no water run off and spawn.
Also, straw is a good idea but is not needed, the major benefit of straw is that you can compress the living hell out of your bulk sub and the straw will still allow enough FAE to allow a decent colonization rate.
I also don't recommend doing any bulk spawning with pf.
-------------------- It's okay to hurt my feelings cause you know, they're so numb anyway. but I guess it's what I get for being to fuckin stupid to stay away - Jake - Support the FSR at www.fsrcanada.com and www.fsre.nl
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Bob Gratton
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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: Pr0_X]
#7694300 - 11/29/07 10:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey Pro_X
Why you would not recommend using nulk substrate with pf ?
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Pr0_X
CultivationLifer



Registered: 01/18/06
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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: Bob Gratton]
#7695628 - 11/29/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Pf makes very poor spawn and the ratio's are higher for pf then bulk itself, the idea with bulk is to use a little spawn to get alot of spawn, not the other way around. Like i said, it can be used but your not going to notice much of a size increase when useing bulk unless you keep it around 4cm deep and that is just a waste of pfcakes you could crumble and case...
just my two cents.
-------------------- It's okay to hurt my feelings cause you know, they're so numb anyway. but I guess it's what I get for being to fuckin stupid to stay away - Jake - Support the FSR at www.fsrcanada.com and www.fsre.nl
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resptodd
I reject yourreality andsubstitute myown



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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: Pr0_X]
#7695914 - 11/29/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm always willing to send out some of my composted Hpoo, it was all put together for my own use, blended, mixed, additives. PM me. I have 3 55gallon barrels.
-------------------- Damn! I'm having fun! Just keep the GD monkeys away.
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BuddhaTree
Atomic Nucleus


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Re: Newb to cultivating. A few questions for the masters of the board. [Re: Pr0_X]
#7695932 - 11/29/07 05:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for the poo advise ProX, that actually clears up a few questions I had. Now, to get my hands on some poo! To bad I don't live near any farms, would ordinary "compost" suffice?
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