Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds UK
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Capsules, CBD Edibles   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7676273 - 11/25/07 12:07 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Herbal preparations can be standardized, and many of the better companies offer standardized products. Some herbal medicines are effective only because they are a complex whole, the various chemicals working together to effect the body. There are some medicines that cannot be broken down into thier components as they efficacy is the whole. I'm not arguing against extraction, as tinctures and salves are extractions, but rather the isolation of specific chemicals.

Your scenario of a person driving into the night to find white willow bark is silly. Willow isn't a particularly rare species, and it can be gathered from convenient locations. Personally, when my favourite medicines are in season I make the point to gather a supply for the coming months. Sometimes I crap out and forget, and then I just buy it at a grocery store a few blocks away. If someone wanted to use willow for headaches, they could easily buy a standardized tincture at thier local grocery store.

As for echinacea, I heard of a study that demonstrated that it was not effective as a preventative measure, but once one was already sick, it was effective at mitigating and shortening the duration of the cold. I've never been that big on echinacea myself, as I find other herbs more effective. Astragalus, siberian ginseng and goldenseal are awesome. I've been consistent with my immuno-stumulant tincture this season, and the rate of my colds has seriously declined.

The way some shady companies promote certain herbs as wonder cures is shitty, and irritating. But this does not mean that herbal medicine on the whole is a hoax.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,399
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7676347 - 11/25/07 12:43 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Please tell me how you think extracts are standardized.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7676369 - 11/25/07 12:57 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

This article is critical of standardized herbal products, and makes a good case against it. But it explains 2 ways the process occurs. I admit, I didn't look up the article before my last post, and if I had I would have made a different argument.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 10,454
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 10 months, 15 days
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7676404 - 11/25/07 01:16 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Oh, you are a fan of it? Because I'm not. I'm sorry you didn't "get the point" that what I was saying was a joke. Did you miss that somewhere between those furious strokes?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: xFrockx]
    #7676428 - 11/25/07 01:25 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I completely got that it was a joke, it just struck me as a distasteful one.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7677098 - 11/25/07 09:44 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Learning about a health promoting lifestyle...




One of us eats junk food and one of us follows a 'healthy' diet. I will let the readers guess who has been sick this week. :blush:




So I got a cold. And I am about over it in three days. I get about a cold a year and I haven't been to a doctor for treatment in about eight. My last doctor threatened to dump me because I wouldn't at least come in for a physical. I gave her this quote. "If there is something wrong with me I don't want to know about it because I'll worry about it and make it worse" All most all my illness is mental and doctors can't help me there.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7677105 - 11/25/07 09:47 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Please tell me how you think extracts are standardized.




Some are and some aren't. The ones that are, are first made into a tincture and then the alcohol is dried off. At that point what is left is measured for potency and then put into capsules.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,399
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: Icelander]
    #7677410 - 11/25/07 12:24 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

At that point what is left is measured for potency




The potency measurement is a highly modern technique unavailable to herbalists of old. Damn science! :hissyfit:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,399
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: Icelander]
    #7677427 - 11/25/07 12:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

So I got a cold. And I am about over it in three days.




Whatever you say, Mr. Defensive. :rolleyes: *Shmoopy lights up a cig to go with his beer and cheesepuffs*


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,399
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7677481 - 11/25/07 12:42 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
This article is critical of standardized herbal products, and makes a good case against it. But it explains 2 ways the process occurs. I admit, I didn't look up the article before my last post, and if I had I would have made a different argument.




Which, of course, is why I asked what you 'thought' it entailed. I was hoping you would respond without research, but hey - you learned something new.

Despite the article's nonsensical disclaimer, standardization or chromatographic measurement IS necessary in order to treat any illness. There is a clear dosage response to any medicine, whether herbal or modern.

So herbalists can extract some 90% of the weight of the plant through drying (water loss) and that is cool, but to go further and remove unnecessary lipids, wax, chlorophyll and other non-essential compounds; i.e. is somehow antithetical to healing, is just another mistaken belief.

Many of you 'back to nature' types seem to be conflating the greed of big business to the efficacy of purified or refined products. This is an emotional and not a rational position.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7678230 - 11/25/07 04:31 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

At that point what is left is measured for potency




The potency measurement is a highly modern technique unavailable to herbalists of old. Damn science! :hissyfit:




I don't have a problem with the scientific method, but I do have a problem with assuming the knowledge developed by people prior to the 19th century was superstitious or false simply because they didn't have access to modern methods and technologies. Even apes use the empirical process to learn and discover the world around them. People have used herbal medicines for thousands of years because they are effective.

It is true that in full blown, acute illness, pharmaceuticals are often appropriate. When I was in the hospital with pneumonia last spring, I was certainly happy to take antibiotics. Good ole' government paid $70 a bag for my iv moxifloxacin. :thumbup: This year, I'm not getting pneumonia because I'm building my immune system with tonic herbs that promote my body's capacity to defend itself. I got pneumonia because I was weak and I didn't take care of myself. I am grateful to have had access to the emergency services of the modern medical system, but I wouldn't have needed to fall back on them if I'd sucked it up and taken better care of myself in the first place. The immune support tincture I'm taking right now is seeing me through the healthiest I've ever been. I'm better able to cope with physical and emotional stressors that I've ever been. It's awesome.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7678319 - 11/25/07 04:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Traditional clinical herbalists use herbs not so much to treat named diseases, but to implement a shift in underlying physiological processes so the body can heal itself. The body’s complex processes can be affected by herbs, drugs, foods, emotional experiences and therapeutic exercises. This alone delineates a fundamental difference between wholistic herbal medicine and the phytotherapeutic or symptomatic drug-like approach of phytotherapy. While neither is fully exclusive of the other, the difference is in the intention of the final therapeutic goal.




This is from the article, I'm not sure if you bothered to read the whole thing. It isn't a matter of conflating refined drugs with big-business greed, it is a matter of having a different concept of health and wellness, and how it is achieved.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7680018 - 11/25/07 11:52 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

damnit! why did this thread have to get hijacked by the homeopathic/herbal discussion.

BTW, I want a response to my last post.

I left off make snide comments about the prevalence of staph in hospitals as well as the amount of people that contract pneumonia.... and let me add bed sores here.

While I have no real opinion on homeopathy, atleast not in the pro sense, I hope that people dont see that as the only alternative. I think that seems to be the biggest problem with the medical issue.
There is either knowledgable malpractice or quackery... depending on which side of the fence you want to view the subject from.
An alternative is that you dont believe what the drug commercials or NEWS channel 3 says about your presupposed illness, and you dont believe the homeopathic/herbal remedy cure-all faux percentages.
Herb X has shown in scientific studies has shown to white blood cells in the human body!
Everyone is a used car salesman trying to push their product by leaving out the shortcomings and overstating the positives with catch phrases and buzz words.

they both have merits in certain sectors, but there is no single medical approach that is the best choice for the entire spectrum of physical maladies.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7680055 - 11/26/07 12:10 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I completely agree with you. There are many alternatives, including the reform of modern medical practices.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine *DELETED* [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7681236 - 11/26/07 12:17 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by LunarEclipse

Reason for deletion: comm nonono



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Female User Gallery

Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: The Church of Modern Medicine [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7681336 - 11/26/07 12:55 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Lunar, so you have a problem with people seeking help from someone more knowledgeable when they have a problem? If the gas lines in your house were leaking, would you try to fix them yourself or would you call the gas company?

I get your point if you mean that we need to be more aware of our health and take care of ourselves, but sometimes this involves taking more powerful medicine. When I take herbal medicine, I choose it on my own. I apprenticed with a local herbalist a few years ago, and have been studying it of my own volition since I was rather young, so I have a reasonable amount of knowledge to know what is appropriate to take for what reasons. I know what works for me because I have tried it and observed the effect it has on me. It doesn't get much more independent and empowered than that. I agree that we should not blindly trust 'professionals' with our bodies, but that we should educate ourselves. Sometimes professionals have the knowledge that we need and they are a valuable resource. I will take thier opinion, but if it is wrong for me I will disregard it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Capsules, CBD Edibles   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* My thoughts on new age medicine. Droz 860 15 03/26/04 05:26 AM
by fresh313
* Ram Dass on Sacramental Psychedelics Anonymous 1,833 16 12/20/03 06:42 PM
by Anonymous
* Church Universal and Triumphant Viveka 1,004 11 09/29/03 07:53 AM
by gnrm23
* absolute proof, sorry to all the catholics out the
( 1 2 3 all )
ArchDruid 5,472 52 01/04/02 04:50 AM
by WaktSniper
* Drug Use in Modern Society
( 1 2 all )
DigitalDuality 4,852 30 05/25/04 10:28 PM
by Redo
* The 'forgiving' church
( 1 2 3 all )
SeussA 2,867 41 05/02/04 11:41 PM
by DankBluntZ
* The corrupted church of today.
( 1 2 all )
HidingInPlainSight 3,763 26 02/19/04 02:24 PM
by Strumpling
* Children Brought Up In Church Are Seldom Brought In Court
( 1 2 all )
blink 1,844 24 08/12/04 10:37 AM
by j_db69

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
2,751 topic views. 0 members, 3 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2022 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.033 seconds spending 0.011 seconds on 19 queries.