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Invisibleafoaf
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Posts: 32,665
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more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict
    #7677627 - 11/25/07 11:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Can this be true?

I'm going to see if I can find any source information...

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/21/5387/

The War Comes Home: PTSD; Addiction; Homelessness and Suicide All Coming to a Neighborhood Near You!

by Tony Newman and asha bandele

There have been many stories about the vast majority of Americans being insulated from the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, and that only a small percentage of Americans-the families of those fighting overseas-are shouldering the brunt of these wars. We predict that In the next couple of years this will all change as the war comes marching into US communities from coast to coast. How? If history is indeed the great predictor, then we will soon find that the nightmare of war will show up at our doorsteps, not in the form of Al Queda, but in us dealing with the demons of our sons and daughters, brothers and sisters who have spent multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.

CBS News dropped a bombshell last week when they reported on a 5 month investigation that found more veterans have killed themselves in one year than have been killed in battle in Iraq. 100 returning soldiers a week, 5,000 a year are committing suicide, that is more soldiers that have died in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

Let that sink in.

All the car bombings, shootings and violence in Iraq and Afghanistan added up, have killed fewer Americans than have veterans that have killed themselves. Suicide is the most extreme form of collateral consequences from our war in Iraq, but it is only the tip of the iceberg.

What is it like to be shot at during war and know that any day may be your last? How do you deal with the pain of having friends killed in your arms? What does killing other human beings do to your emotional stability? It’s not hard to imagine how such experiences could lead to post-traumatic stress syndrome, which in turn often leads to self-medication, drug addiction, homelessness and even suicide.

Consider how many of us, the weight of our lives upon us, turn to and become dependant on cigarettes, marijuana and alcohol. Millions of Americans struggle with dependency on prescription drugs alone! And many of our issues may be pretty marginal when compared with those of people coming back after 15 months away from their families - people who have experienced the horrors and uncertainties of war and who may be emotionally or physically impaired. Earlier this month, The New York Times ran a story headlined “Surge Seen in Number of Homeless Veterans.” The same day, the Los Angeles Times published a story about a new report by the Alliance to End Homelessness that says one of four homeless are veterans. And these aren’t the only pieces of troubling news items we’re hearing.

The stories of substance abuse are also coming in. The military publication “Stars and Stripes” has reported that alcohol and other drug-use problems are common throughout the forces in Iraq. “Some of the young soldiers just can’t handle the stress and turn to alcohol or drugs to self-medicate,” said military defense lawyer Capt. Chris Krafchek. The Army’s surgeon general was quoted in an Associated Press story that a survey of troops returning from Iraq found that 30 percent had developed mental health problems three to four months after coming home.

What’s going to happen to all of these people who are suffering from depression and suicidal thoughts? Many will end up using drugs, just as many civilians do. So on top of all their other problems, many of the vets will have to worry about getting caught with drugs, being arrested or ending up homeless. U.S. prisons are already filled with nonviolent drug offenders, many serving mandatory sentences of 15 years to life for the possession of small amounts of drugs. Service members incarcerated and separated from their families because of drug addictions resulting from their service in Iraq or Afghanistan will be tragic. Veterans ending up homeless is shameful. And suicides the most extreme collateral damage of these wars.

It’s easy to buy a bumper sticker and demand that everybody “Support Our Troops.” But if we’re going to walk the talk, we better be ready to offer compassion and treatment - not just a jail cell, the street or a morgue when it comes to helping our brothers and sisters heal from the damages of war.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleTheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: afoaf]
    #7679182 - 11/25/07 06:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)



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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #7679349 - 11/25/07 06:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I found some lone blogger that says the numbers are fudged, but not much else
in the way of debunking the claim.

I was just watching a documentary named Ground Truth the other day...I think
it was on IFC...pretty interesting to hear how little returning service men
and women get in the way of medical and psychological treatment.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: afoaf]
    #7679792 - 11/25/07 08:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Associated Press (via America Online) highlights how U.S. Army suicides are the highest in a quarter century, but we have to wait until the fifth paragraph to read an interesting detail:

Quote:

The 99 suicides included 28 soldiers deployed to the two wars and 71 who weren't. About twice as many women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan committed suicide as did women not sent to war, the report said.




Earlier, in the second paragraph, the report states that all 99 soldiers were on "active duty." Yet, 71 of these suicides were not deployed in either Afghanistan or Iraq? Perhaps the 71 had been deployed but were not at the time of their deaths, but this is something that the AP makes the reader conjecture on his own. One is left wondering why over 70% of the suicides took place among soldiers not serving where the actual fighting is taking place.

In addition, it's not until the eleventh paragraph that it's revealed

Quote:

About a quarter of those who killed themselves had a history of at least one psychiatric disorder. Of those, about 20 percent had been diagnosed with a mood disorder such as bipolar disorder and/or depression; and 8 percent had been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder, including post traumatic stress disorder - one of the signature injuries of the conflict in Iraq.




A history of a psychiatric disorder? Again, the reader is left wondering: How long of a history? Was participating in either of the wars the cause? Why are mental ailments such as post traumatic stress -- a battlefield-induced disorder -- mixed in with mood illnesses like bipolar which a person is likely to have had since childhood?



http://newsbusters.org/blogs/d-s-hube/2007/08/16/army-suicide-rate-highest-26-years


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: elbisivni]
    #7680006 - 11/25/07 09:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Not that a single anecdote can help back this up but a good friend of mine's friend (afoaf.. heh)... was in the marines when the iraq war first started. He apparently accidentally killed an iraqi child by mistake. I don't know if was just an accident or he was in the crossfire or what. I never got too nosey.

When he made it home for a break he ended up killing himself (this was 2004) because he couldn't live with the guilt.

My buddy was bummed out for a while that he lost his own friend that he grew up with, especially in such a bizarre, tragic manner.

But like I said... he took his own life ONCE he had come home for a break between tours. I guess when you get home you have a little time to take a break and reflect on what happened.

For those of you out there who have been severely depressed in their lives for a certain period, like I was at a certain time, you know that depression seems to peak when people THINK too much. I'd imagine that you have more time to THINK about depressing shit when you're home and things have slowed down compared to when you're out on duty and on your toes all the time either following orders or dodging bullets and trying to stay alive.

I would assume for those in the military, when you get to a spot where you can take a breather... that's when the REAL depression kicks in; Especially being in a war where things weren't quite as justified and missions/enemies weren't as clear as they were in WWII. I'm not saying that putting a German's head in the crosshairs and pulling the trigger wasn't an emotionally straining action... but it seems to me like soldiers nowadays are subject to more doubt being cast upon their own feelings of righteousness.

So yea.. I don't think it's absurd that most of these suicides seem to take place outside of active duty.

I wonder what th suicide stats were for soldiers during the Vietnam war.


Edited by BrAiN (11/25/07 10:01 PM)


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: afoaf]
    #7680158 - 11/25/07 11:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
pretty interesting to hear how little returning service men
and women get in the way of medical and psychological treatment.




A few days ago I was in a gas station quick mart, long lines, and there was this guy moving VERY slowly and awkwardly, speaking very slowly as if he had a lot of nerve damage. Everyone was staring at him no doubt wondering, what he was doing even trying to walk without assistance of some sort. It was very difficult to witness the shape this guy was in and his being all by himself. When he turned from the counter to head out, with a big thud, he fell on the floor. He exclaimed, " Just my leg, I'm okay, I dealt with much worse in Iraq."

He couldn't get himself up. Some one asked him if he needed help and he said, " I'm  a Marine! Marines don't ask for help!." ( He was wearing tags)

I left that scene feeling very disturbed. Sucks to see first hand what is being sent home from there, wondering if even an electric chair was even offered to him, and thinking he was severely brainwashed into believing that because he is a Marine, he doesn't need any help.

9/11 was tragic. In the name of 9/11 what has happened since, is beyond tragic. How many more dead and permanently injured. How many more families grieving over them.

If the media repeatedly showed images of our soldiers, Iraqi civilians and children, being blown up and injured over and over again like they did the image of the planes hitting the twin towers, this war would have ended long ago.

Instead we get fed stuff by the MSM telling us "The surge is working. :smile: Go back to being worried about products from China and how OJ is doing"

:nonono:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: afoaf]
    #7680184 - 11/25/07 11:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
it was on IFC...pretty interesting to hear how little returning service men
and women get in the way of medical and psychological treatment.




Ron Paul and John McCain are probably the only presidental candidates that consider this a pressing concern... only difference between the two is that John McCain wants to create more afflicted veterans.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7680624 - 11/26/07 05:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> and thinking he was severely brainwashed into believing that because he is a Marine, he doesn't need any help.

Actually, more likely, "speaking very slowly as if he had a lot of nerve damage" is the more likely culprit than brainwashing. The brainwashing used in the military is opposite of what you highlighted above... it is designed to create unity and teamwork, not individualism; this is where the "no one left behind" mentality comes from.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: Seuss]
    #7680854 - 11/26/07 08:10 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I did say nerve damage not brain damage. How would your muscular nerves being damaged effect your thinking?

I don't know what made him say that "I'm a Marine, I don't need any help"  bit so loud and proudly.

It made me wonder if he was brainwashed, to believe that by whoever is in a position to get this guy some assistance. Could be whoever he is living with who is telling him that.:shrug:

All I know is, he had to hold unto stuff and drag himself along. I have NEVER seen anyone doing that. Someone in that shape is usually in leg and arm braces or a wheelchair.

I thought of him when I read the line about the injured Vets not getting the assistance they need.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7681575 - 11/26/07 12:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> I did say nerve damage not brain damage.

I saw.  The difference between a sign and a symptom.  (Without asking/testing, you can't tell if a neural disorder originates in the nerves or in the brain.)

> Could be whoever he is living with who is telling him that.:shrug:

Again, if it were brain damage... but we don't know.  Regardless, people with recent disabilities often have trouble integrating into society.  It is human nature to want to do; getting assistance is a reminder of what was lost.

> I thought of him when I read the line about the injured Vets not getting the assistance they need.

Agree with you completely.  :frown:


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: afoaf]
    #7682293 - 11/26/07 03:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have yet to find any stats disproving what you have posted.....however, as a vet from Afghanistan....this seems awfully high. No one from my unit (that I stay in contact with)has committed or attempted suicide, however the whole PTSD thing is thriving.....I know for a fact that the homeless vets are becoming more prevalent due to current news, and a couple of buddies I Western Union when they need it


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #7685084 - 11/27/07 09:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It is bizaarre to me that America has yet to understand that when young men go off to war, many of them come home suffering from serious PTSD, depression, and even more devastating psychological problems, not to mention the physical injuries. These are problems that plague and tax an entire generation for their whole lifetimes. Vietnam Vets still make a large portion of the homeless population in America.

When discussing the cost of war, the psychological effects on a generation of soldiers should be included. And we need to give returning vets all the gratitude, treatment and love possible, regardless of whether or not we support the war they fought in.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: afoaf]
    #7685436 - 11/27/07 10:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

my brother had a friend to take his life shortly after returning from Iraq, but dude didn't leave any trace as to why

currently, where my brother is stationed, he says that morale is incredibly low and that everyone is really down


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: demiu5]
    #7686479 - 11/27/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i remember when bush took office and acted quickly to cut VA funding. after 9/11 he worked quickly to enter into two wars. now the government is acting lethargically to the cries to our vets. makes me proud to be an american.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: SlashOZ]
    #7686730 - 11/27/07 04:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Do you have a link to that? Or are you just blowing it out your ass?


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InvisibleSlashOZ
:D
Male


Registered: 10/20/06
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7686796 - 11/27/07 04:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i don't have a link to any specific article. mostly because it happened in early 2001. if you need any proof watch the CNN special about how our vets are being treated. you can also look up the VA hospital stories from a while back.

btw a quick search on google revealed dozens of articles detailing domestic budget cuts by bush nearly always included the VA.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


Edited by SlashOZ (11/27/07 05:10 PM)


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: SlashOZ]
    #7687345 - 11/27/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'd like to see one but I'm lazy... gimme URLSs. Gimme Gimme. Not so much for my sake but I want to see how zappa responds. Why not throw a slam dunk in his face :wink:

It's fun to watch zappa squirm every now and then.


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InvisibleSlashOZ
:D
Male


Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: BrAiN]
    #7687397 - 11/27/07 06:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

hey it isn't my fault he doesn't know recent history...


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: SlashOZ]
    #7687456 - 11/27/07 06:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

For the uninitiated, if you make a statement like that in PD (PA&L we hardly knew ya) you are expected to provide some kind of link to back it up. Recent history? What were you in 2001, 14?


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: more veterans have committed suicide this year than have been killed during the entire conflict [Re: SlashOZ]
    #7687460 - 11/27/07 06:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Many people have claimed certain things about voting and it was actually a distorted claim.

Pull up a link man. Shove it in his face.... put that link between your asscheecks and then stick them up to zappa's face so you can shit all over him with a slam dunk link that makes him look like an idiot.

He'll enjoy it.

He IS a horrid asshole afterall.


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