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InvisibleNoetical
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Registered: 11/28/04
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Socrates is an asshole
    #7676920 - 11/25/07 04:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

he holds others to a much higher standard then he does himself.


This thread sucks. I wanted to talk about Socrates and Plato. Instead its filled with garbage.


Edited by Noetical (11/26/07 03:49 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Noetical]
    #7677090 - 11/25/07 07:39 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

And you knew him of course.

Dude. Everyone holds others to higher standards then themselves.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Icelander]
    #7677419 - 11/25/07 10:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

'Than', people. 'Then' is a conditional. 'Than' is comparative.

Thus ends Shmoopy's grammar lesson for today. Next week we shall cover 'loose' (ill-fitting) vs. 'lose' (not winning).


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InvisibleCameron
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7677975 - 11/25/07 01:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
'Than', people. 'Then' is a conditional. 'Than' is comparative.

Thus ends Shmoopy's grammar lesson for today. Next week we shall cover 'loose' (ill-fitting) vs. 'lose' (not winning).




Oooh, do their, they're, and there! :awesome:


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InvisibleNoetical
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7677976 - 11/25/07 01:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

No comment on the content then....


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Icelander]
    #7678003 - 11/25/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Everyone holds others to higher standards then themselves.:monkeydance:




prove it


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7678007 - 11/25/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

make me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleimplicitli
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Noetical]
    #7678011 - 11/25/07 01:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe he just knew better than the sophists. Maybe he spent more time contemplating the truth, and less time getting drunk and sleeping with young boys. Maybe he had actually grasped some of the higher principles, and didn't know how to put them exactly.

I think that what bothered Socrates about the sophists is that they claimed to know, and then they got paid to teach young men what they knew. But Socrates didn't actually believed he knew better than others, he asked questions, and had people find their answers inside of themselves, through dialectic, and conversation.

I mean, maybe he was an asshole, but I think that it's very important to question those that believe they know the truth, and think that they can teach it to you.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: implicitli]
    #7678116 - 11/25/07 02:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Right on.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleNoetical
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: implicitli]
    #7679300 - 11/25/07 06:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

implicitli said:
I mean, maybe he was an asshole, but I think that it's very important to question those that believe they know the truth, and think that they can teach it to you.




Speak it babe.

*****

I've just been very hung up on the Euthyphro lately. Soc and Euth make some very large strides in attempting to define piety and then when Euth can't take it any further Soc just lays in to him.

He is a jerk, but a smart jerk, I like jerks too. But I still call them jerks.


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Invisibleimplicitli
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Noetical]
    #7679422 - 11/25/07 07:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

you're a jerk.


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: implicitli]
    #7679746 - 11/25/07 08:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

implicitli said:
you're a jerk.




prove it


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Invisibleimplicitli
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7679753 - 11/25/07 08:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

not interested.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Icelander]
    #7679793 - 11/25/07 08:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Dude. Everyone holds others to higher standards then themselves.:monkeydance:



I don't know.  I frequently find myself making excuses for other people while being hard on myself.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Silversoul]
    #7679812 - 11/25/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm with Silversoul, I often hold myself to higher standards than others. If I held others up to the same standard I hold myself, I'd probably dislike most of the people I meet.


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OfflineKristian
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7679959 - 11/25/07 09:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with the last two posters. I think it may not be a healthy way to approach life though. I've gotten burned by so many people to this point...


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Kristian]
    #7680041 - 11/25/07 10:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You're probably right. It makes the most sense to hold oneself and others to a reasonable standard of respect, kindness, authenticity, etc.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Silversoul]
    #7682208 - 11/26/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Dude. Everyone holds others to higher standards then themselves.:monkeydance:



I don't know.  I frequently find myself making excuses for other people while being hard on myself.




OK OK Most people hold others to higher standards than they do themselves.

By the way I don't really believe you or NN.:lol: I think most of your judgments then are of the unconscious variety.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleNoetical
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Icelander]
    #7682377 - 11/26/07 04:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

So ....

based on Socratic dialogues does anyone care to make comment one way or another....


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Silversoul]
    #7682783 - 11/26/07 05:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I find myself making excuses for other people while being hard on...




Lay off the internet porn. :tongue2:


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InvisibleNoetical
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7682820 - 11/26/07 05:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

what a joke...


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Noetical]
    #7682906 - 11/26/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Heheh, Socrates is kind of a jerk. Remember when he told that young guy that he was repelled by him because he was attractive? Sometimes it seems like he was putting himself up on a pedestal.

On the other hand, I would say Socrates was the reason why Aristotle ended up creating formal logic (that's a wild speculation :yesnod:). Socrates wanted to get to the ground of everything, he didn't want to simply accept what sounded good (popular opinion). I think he was a genuine seeker of truth and not just a person who thought he had the answers and mocked those who didn't.

In the Euthyphro chapter, I had pictured Socrates with a big smirk and "this guy is a fool" kind of attitude when he was saying how he wished he could know the nature of piety if Euthyphro only could clarify his position. I now think Socrates is more humble than that... Euthyphro ran away like a coward by the way, and not much has changed in the realm of philosophy since those ancient days.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7683016 - 11/26/07 06:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Why? :shrug:


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InvisibleNoetical
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7683049 - 11/26/07 06:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
Heheh, Socrates is kind of a jerk. Remember when he told that young guy that he was repelled by him because he was attractive? Sometimes it seems like he was putting himself up on a pedestal.

On the other hand, I would say Socrates was the reason why Aristotle ended up creating formal logic (that's a wild speculation :yesnod:). Socrates wanted to get to the ground of everything, he didn't want to simply accept what sounded good (popular opinion). I think he was a genuine seeker of truth and not just a person who thought he had the answers and mocked those who didn't.

In the Euthyphro chapter, I had pictured Socrates with a big smirk and "this guy is a fool" kind of attitude when he was saying how he wished he could know the nature of piety if Euthyphro only could clarify his position. I now think Socrates is more humble than that... Euthyphro ran away like a coward by the way, and not much has changed in the realm of philosophy since those ancient days.




When I first read the Euthyphro I had the same feelin' that he was jerking him around.

Now I'm of the opinion that S was very genuine in his attempt to define piety with Euth. And though it ends inconclusively you can salvage a conception of what Socrates possibly believed piety was.

More to follow I have to finish a paper.... on Socrates


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Offlinefaceofbear
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Noetical]
    #7684103 - 11/27/07 12:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i just wanted to add....

one must remember to take the literalness of the Socratic dialogues with a pinch of salt. no-one really knows where Socrates ends and Plato begins, if you will. much as i love the character of Socrates as portrayed in the dialogues (and just as i have noticed his tendency to come off as a little bit of a jerk), i have to admit to myself that there's no way i could really know what he was like other than to have met him and talked to him for myself.

except, of course, that he was an OG. that goes without saying.
:bigjoint:


--------------------
http://www.last.fm/music/The+Wolf


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Socrates is an asshole [Re: Noetical]
    #7685257 - 11/27/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This thread sucks. I wanted to talk about Socrates and Plato. Instead its filled with garbage.


Poor guy. :hissyfit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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