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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Libertarian: Ron Paul
    #7673679 - 11/24/07 08:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/23/AR2007112301299.html

lib•er•tar•ian
n. 1. a person who believes in the doctrine of the freedom of the will
2. a person who believes in full individual freedom of thought, expression and action
3. a freewheeling rebel who hates wiretaps, loves Ron Paul and is redirecting politics


How to make sense of the Ron Paul revolution? What's behind the improbably successful (so far) presidential campaign of a 72-year-old 10-term Republican congressman from Texas who pines for the gold standard while drawing praise from another relic from the hyperinflationary 1970s, punk-rocker Johnny Rotten?

Now with about 5 percent (and climbing) support in polls of likely Republican voters, Paul set a one-day GOP record by raising $4.3 million on the Internet from 38,000 donors on Nov. 5 -- Guy Fawkes Day, the commemoration of a British anarchist who plotted to blow up Parliament and kill King James I in 1605. Paul's campaign, which is three-quarters of the way to its goal of raising "$12 Million to Win" by Dec. 31, didn't even organize the fundraiser -- an independent-minded supporter did.

When a fierce Republican foe of the wars on drugs and terrorism is able, without really trying, to pull in a record haul of campaign cash on a day dedicated to an attempted regicide, it's clear that a new and potentially transformative force is growing in American politics.

That force is less about Paul than about the movement that has erupted around him -- and the much larger subset of Americans who are increasingly disillusioned with the two major political parties' soft consensus on making government ever more intrusive at all levels, whether it's listening to phone calls without a warrant, imposing fines of half a million dollars for broadcast "obscenities" or jailing grandmothers for buying prescribed marijuana from legal dispensaries.

Paul, who entered Congress in 1976, has been dubbed "Dr. No" by his colleagues because of his consistent nay votes on federal spending, military intervention in Iraq and elsewhere, and virtually all expansions of federal power (he cast one of three GOP votes against the original USA Patriot Act). But his philosophy of principled libertarianism is anything but negative: It's predicated on the fundamental notion that a smaller government allows individuals the freedom to pursue happiness as they see fit.

Given such a live-and-let-live ethos, it's no surprise that at a time when people run screaming from such labels as "liberal" and "conservative," you can hardly turn around in Washington, Hollywood or even Berkeley without running into another self-described libertarian.

The lefty Internet titan Markos "Daily Kos" Moulitsas penned a widely read manifesto last year pegging the future of his party to the "Libertarian Democrat." The conservative pundit Jonah Goldberg declared this year that he's "much more of a libertarian" lately. Bill Maher, Christopher Hitchens, Tucker Carlson, "South Park" co-creator Matt Stone -- self-described libertarians all. Surely it's a milestone when Drew Carey, the new host of that great national treasure "The Price Is Right," becomes an outspoken advocate of open borders, same-sex marriage, free speech and repealing drug prohibition. As Michael Kinsley, an arch purveyor of conventional wisdom, wrote recently in Time magazine, such people are going to be "an increasingly powerful force in politics."

Kinsley is hardly alone in recognizing this trend. In April 2006, the Pew Research Center published a study suggesting that 9 percent of Americans -- more than enough to swing every presidential election since 1988 -- espouse a "libertarian" ideology that opposes "government regulation in both the economic and the social spheres." That is, a good chunk of your fellow citizens are fiscally conservative and socially liberal; in bumper-stickerese, they love their countrymen but distrust their government. Anyone looking to win elections -- or to make sense of contemporary U.S. politics -- would do well to understand the deep and growing reservoir that Paul is tapping into.

Though relatively unknown at the national level, Paul is hardly an unknown legislative quantity. A former Libertarian Party presidential candidate, he has at various times called for abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, the CIA and several Cabinet-level agencies. A staunch opponent of abortion, he nonetheless believes that federal bans violate the more basic principle of delegating powers to the states. A proponent of a border wall with Mexico (nativist CNN host Lou Dobbs fawned over Paul earlier this year), he is the only GOP candidate to come out against any form of national I.D. card.

Such positions may not be fully consistent or equally attractive, but Paul's insistence on a constitutionally limited government has won applause from surprising quarters. Singer Barry Manilow donated the maximum $2,300 to his campaign; the hipster singer-songwriter John Mayer was videotaped yelling "Ron Paul knows the Constitution!" and 67,000 people have signed up for Paul-related Meet Up pages on the Internet. On ABC's "This Week" recently, George Will half-jokingly cautioned his fellow pundits, "Don't forget my man Ron Paul" in the New Hampshire primary. Fellow panelist Jake Tapper seconded the emotion, saying, "He really is the one true straight talker in this race."

Yet Paul's success has mostly left the mainstream media and pundits flustered, if not openly hostile. The Associated Press recently treated the Paul phenomenon like an alien life form: "The Texas libertarian's rise in the polls and in fundraising proves that a small but passionate number of Americans can be drawn to an advocate of unorthodox proposals." Republican pollster Frank Luntz has denounced Paul's supporters as "the equivalent of crabgrass . . . not the grass you want, and it spreads faster than the real stuff." And conservative syndicated columnist Mona Charen said out loud what many campaign reporters have no doubt been thinking all along: "He might make a dandy new leader for the Branch Davidians."

When conservatives feel comfortable mocking the victims gunned down by Clinton-era attorney general Janet Reno's FBI in Waco, Tex., in 1993, it suggests that a complacent and increasingly authoritarian establishment feels threatened.

And little wonder. In the 1990s, conservative Republicans rose to power by relentlessly attacking Big Government. Yet the minute they took control of both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue, they kicked out the jams on even a semblance of fiscal responsibility, signing off on the Medicare prescription drug benefit and building literal and figurative bridges to nowhere. From 2001 to 2008, federal outlays will have grown by an estimated 29 percent in inflation-adjusted terms, according to the Office of Management and Budget.

The biggest Big Government expansion during the Bush era is the one that Americans now despise most: the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, whose direct costs are already an estimated $800 billion, plus 4,000 American lives. Paul's steadfast bring-the-troops-home stance -- not just from Iraq, but Korea and Japan as well -- is the major engine powering his grass-roots success as ostensibly antiwar Democrats in the majority can't or won't do anything on Capitol Hill.

But if war were the only answer for his improbable run, why Ron Paul instead of the perennial peacenik Dennis Kucinich, the Democratic congressman from Ohio whose apparent belief in UFOs is only slightly less kooky than his belief in the efficacy of socialized health care?

Part of the reason is Republican muscle memory. Paul's "freedom message" is the direct descendant of Barry Goldwater's once-dominant GOP philosophy of libertarianism (which Ronald Reagan described in a 1975 Reason magazine interview as "the very heart and soul of conservatism"). But that tradition has been under a decade-long assault by religious-right moralists, neoconservative interventionists and a governing coalition that has learned to love Medicare expansion and appropriations pork.

So Paul's challenge represents a not-so-lonely GOP revival of unabashed libertarianism. All his major Republican competitors want to double down on Bush's wars; none is stressing any limited-government themes, apart from half-hearted promises to prune pork and tinker on the margins of Social Security.

College kids (a key bloc of Paul's support) have seen no recent evidence that the GOP has anything to do with libertarianism. Yet there's no reason to believe that Democrats will do anything useful about the government intrusion that so many young people abhor: the drug war, federal bans on same-sex marriage, online poker prohibitions, open-ended deployments in Iraq.

This is the mile-wide gap in the Maginot line of "serious" Washington politics. Undergrads aren't the only ones weary of war and moralizing, and more interested in exploring new frontiers of technology and culture than in heeding the stale noise coming from inside the Beltway.

More than at any other time over the past two decades, Americans are hungering for the politics and freewheeling fun of libertarianism. And with the dreary prospect of a Giuliani vs. Clinton death match in 2008, that hunger is likely to grow even faster than the size of the federal government or the casualty toll in Iraq. Ron Paul may lose next year's battle -- though not without a memorable fight -- but the laissez-faire agitators he has helped energize will find themselves at the leading edge of American politics and culture for years to come.


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OfflineTheFish
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7673852 - 11/24/07 10:20 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Residents of VA should help to collect 5,000 signatures for the cause.

We are growing in force.


--------------------
"Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand,
Says, 'Don't you see?'
Gotta make it somehow on the dreams you still believe.
Don't give it up.
You got an empty cup only love can fill."

Jerry Garcia


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7673974 - 11/24/07 11:30 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Sometimes Ron Paul worries me because it seems he drifts into populist territory at times (pulling from NAFTA & WTO, abolishing Federal Reserve). To me, there are very few prospects as terrifying as a populist president.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: Redstorm]
    #7674023 - 11/24/07 11:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I've heard Ron Paul speak about his ideas regarding pulling from NAFTA and the WTO, and his stance is that it is harmful to have another level of government that supercedes the Constitutional rights of Congress to manage our trade. I think this makes sense - these institutions work to bind us from acting in our best interest as a country when it comes to trade. I can try to find the video I was watching in which he said this, because he was much more specific in expressing the idea. :wink:

I'm not sure exactly how you use the term populist, but I'm assuming you mean catering to the masses? Anyways, regarding the Federal Reserve, it should be clear upon research that Ron Paul is firmly agansit the Federal Reserve for ideaological reasons. His political career essentially started with an interest in economics. He's been pursuing the matter regarding the Federal Reserve for thirty years now, because of the economic turmoil that the Federal Reserve has caused, not simply to appeal to some short-sighted sentiment of the worker in order to get elected...


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7674042 - 11/24/07 12:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I'm mainly worry because I am very against the usage of tariffs (both by the US and foreign countries trading w/ us) and those organizations are the only things keeping tariffs down. I am staunchly anti-protectionist and I feel the way we can best grow economically is by engaging foreign countries in trade. Those organizations are by no means perfect, but I believe they are necessary if we are to have any semblance of free trade.

If Paul has a way of reducing tariffs while granting trading autonomy to all parties, I would be very interested in hearing it.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: Redstorm]
    #7674104 - 11/24/07 12:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Sometimes Ron Paul worries me because... pulling from NAFTA & WTO...




One of the main reasons I would vote for him. I'm not 100% sure how most Americans feel about these things, but in poor nations with corrupt governments the implementations of the policies of IMF, World Bank, WTO, NAFTA, CAFTA & whatever else have been anything but democratic... & certainly not 'free trade'. Even though I am a socialist I support Ron Paul because he would let other societies reach a social & economic arrangement of their choosing, & trade with them from that... not use an authoritarian state to impose unpopular policies on them & continue to dictate to the broad majority of the people in these nations the terms of economic exchange.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: Redstorm]
    #7674108 - 11/24/07 12:35 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Kind of tired, but let me first share with you something I just read, written by Ron Paul. It doesn't directly address what you are talking about, but you may find it interesting... :wink:

Quote:


“My main motivation in entering politics was to contribute something toward establishing a free society. This desire, combined with the Austrian arguments for the efficient functioning of the market economy, has served me well. The particular interest that has occupied my time and interest has been the issue of money and inflation.

"It is impossible to concentrate on money and inflation and ignore foreign affairs, however. The two are intertwined. The fact that economic interventionism leads to a lowering of our standard of living is bad enough, but its breeding of excessive nationalism, protectionism, economic isolationism, militarism, and war should prompt us all to fear for the fate of freedom and even civilization itself, [Ludwig von] Mises’s prediction that the U.S. type of interventionism will lead to a German type of national socialism appears to be accurate. In Human Action Mises states:

“An essential point in the social philosophy of interventionism is the existence of an inexhaustible fund which can be squeezed forever. The whole doctrine of interventionism collapses when this fountain is drained off. The Santa Claus principle liquidates itself.” (Pg 854)

“Evidence of his prediction is all around us today. We can only hope that we can turn things around before his prediction that it leads to a German-type fascism comes true.

"The non-liberals who admit to the failure of their brand of interventionism now plot schemes for “reindustrialization”—a euphemism for fascism (government “partnership” with business). Banking Regulation Number One and the Defense Production Act, already on the books, allow under emergency conditions for an economic despot to take charge almost immediately. In a panic, it will not take much totopple us over. Since Americans dislike outright government ownership we will have the deception of private ownership in combination with government’s authoritarian control over the economy. And some businessmen, under this system, will always hope to secure greater profits at the expense of innocent (and unknown) victims.In Human Action, Mises points out:

“Aggressive nationalism is the necessary derivative of the policies of interventionism and national planning. While laissez faire eliminates the causes of international conflict, government interference with business and socialism create conflicts for which no peaceful solution can be found. While under free trade and freedom of migration no individual is concerned about the territorial size of his country, under the protective measures of economic nationalism nearly every citizen has a substantial interest in these territorial issues. The enlargement of the territory subject to the sovereignty of his own government means material improvement for him or at least relief from restrictions which a foreign government has imposed upon his well-being. What has transformed the limited war between royal armies into total war, the clash between peoples, is not technicalities of military art, but the substitution of the welfare state for the laissez-faire state”. (pg 819)

"And again, he reiterates:


“Interventionism generates economic nationalism, and economic nationalism generates bellicosity. If men and commodities are prevented from crossing the borderlines, why should not the armies try to pave the way for them? . . . The root of the evil is not the construction of new, or dreadful weapons. It is the spirit of conquest.”(page 828)


“As Mises shows, the “spirit of conquest” is the problem, not the weapons themselves. For this reason, he places no confidence whatever in treaties and conferences, which to him were all bureaucratic nonsense.

"International tensions are building as never before, with the war on terrorism fueling more terrorism, which provides more rationale for the war. The magnitude of these tensions is even greater than in the 1930s. International debt is deeper; the degree of worldwide inflation is more ominous.

"Gold has been “discredited” by all governments. The engines of inflation throughout the world are running at full throttle, struggling to keep the debt pyramid from collapsing. True capital formation diminishes yearly. Military build-ups continue at unprecedented rates. Western governments continue to finance ruthless regimes, loaning more than $100 billion. As foreign military capability is enhanced by our financing, we hear urgent requests from both Democrats and Republicans to increase our military expenditures massively. We never question our subsidies to our “allies and friends” through massive military and economic aid. We tear down Texas’ Gulf Coast airbases, and send AWACs aircraft to Europe and the Mideast, leaving our coastlines vulnerable. All of Japan’s defense needs are paid for by the American taxpayer and the savings are passed on to their car companies and other exporters. American car and steel industries then ask for more protectionism through quotas and tariffs.

"All this insanity, of course, is financed through massive taxation and inflation borne by our taxpayers. Without fiat money, these wild schemes would be impossible. And, more inflation, and more planning only makes things worse. And we are now in the midst of compensating for the problems we have created with trade barriers, devaluations, floating exchange rates, bank bailouts, and Third World and foreign government bailouts. The only answer given to the deteriorating conditions is to either spend more on bombs or sign worthless treaties with untrustworthy governments. And yet there is clearly another option.No one wants to consider seriously sound money and free trade as an alternative. Central banking and fiat money bring us the business cycle and unemployment. They also give us international crises and war. To achieve peace and prosperity, we must accept the ideas of the free market and honest money”

This is a portion of the essay “Mises and Austrian Economic; A Personal View” (PG 16-18) by Congressman and Presidential Candidate Ron Paul. The entire paper can be found at http://www.mises.org http://www.mises.org/books/paulmises.pdf "> PDF




I'll find more that specifically addresses his stance regarding those organizations later. :smile:


--------------------
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I wouldn't fear
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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7674118 - 11/24/07 12:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:

Sometimes Ron Paul worries me because... pulling from NAFTA & WTO...




One of the main reasons I would vote for him. I'm not 100% sure how most Americans feel about these things, but in poor nations with corrupt governments the implementations of the policies of IMF, World Bank, WTO, NAFTA, CAFTA & whatever else have been anything but democratic... & certainly not 'free trade'. Even though I am a socialist I support Ron Paul because he would let other societies reach a social & economic arrangement of their choosing, & trade with them from that... not use an authoritarian state to impose unpopular policies on them & continue to dictate to the broad majority of the people in these nations the terms of economic exchange.




If I were from a different country I might think the same way. I am from the US, though, so I support any arrangements that will increase the power of this country.

Like I said, though, I would prefer a true free trade arrangement where all parties can be adult enough to not use tariffs, but this isn't realistic so I support "free trade" organizations even though they are far from ideal.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: Redstorm]
    #7674139 - 11/24/07 12:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)



The question regarding his stance on trade is raised at six minutes in. I highly advise checking it out dude. :thumbup:

"I'm not a protectionist, but I'm not a manage-trade person, I'm a free-trade person". :smile:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
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:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: Redstorm]
    #7674143 - 11/24/07 12:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Free trade is ideal when it benefits the whole population. The problem with free trade under the current regime is that much of the wealth it brings gets concentrated in land values, ensuring that the rich get richer, while the poor see little if any of that economic growth. Henry George was a strong advocate of free trade, but only under a system like he proposed where the land value would be shared among the populace, ensuring that the economic growth would benefit the whole country, and not just the top 10%.

Anyway, aside from my Georgist sermon, another problem I have with our so-called "free trade" agreements is the environmental impact. Many environmental laws meant to protect forests, rivers, and the air have been considered unfair trade practices under NAFTA. Meanwhile, it doesn't seem to stop us from heavily subsidizing our agriculture, making it more difficult for Third World farmers who are struggling as it is.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: Silversoul]
    #7674151 - 11/24/07 12:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Believe me, I'm the last person who you'd see advocating subsidies. If an industry can not support itself, it shouldn't be propped up.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: Redstorm]
    #7674158 - 11/24/07 12:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Believe me, I'm the last person who you'd see advocating subsidies. If an industry can not support itself, it shouldn't be propped up.




But what about all the homeless sugar growers? I'm being facetious, I agree, but then I'm a hideous social darwinist (and asshole). SOYLENT GREEN! Don't need no subsidies for that.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7674164 - 11/24/07 01:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I can see that removing fiat money eliminates the ability for a government
to participate in imperial conquest, but the problem is that moving to the
gold standard does not eliminate inflation.

There have been inflationary periods throughout the history of economics
both with and without a gold standard.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7674176 - 11/24/07 01:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

In my hometown, there was a huge sugar factory. It stunk like something rotten all year round. I wouldn't be sad to see some other country take care of the whole sugar manufacturing sector.


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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: Silversoul]
    #7674190 - 11/24/07 01:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Anyway, aside from my Georgist sermon, another problem I have with our so-called "free trade" agreements is the environmental impact.  Many environmental laws meant to protect forests, rivers, and the air have been considered unfair trade practices under NAFTA.




Exactly. Congress should decide how we will trade, and for what reasons, not an unelected government authority that represents..... who knows? :shrug:


Quote:


"Free trade means no sanctions against Iran, or Cuba or anyone else
for that matter.  Entangling alliances with no one means no foreign
aid to Pakistan, or Egypt, or Israel, or anyone else for that matter.
If an American citizen determines a foreign country or cause is worthy
of their money, let them send it, and encourage their neighbors to
send money too, but our government has no authority to use hard-earned
American taxpayer dollars to mire us in these nightmarishly
complicated, no-win entangling alliances."
--Ron Paul




Quote:


"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in
extending our commercial relations to have with them as little
political connection as possible....'Tis our true policy to steer
clear of permanent Alliances, with any portion of the foreign World."
--George Washington




Quote:


"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship, with all nations - entangling
alliances with none." "Our first and fundamental maxim should be,
never to entangle ourselves in the broils of Europe."
--Thomas Jefferson




Interestingly enough, Thomas Jefferson once imposed an embargo on all foreign trade, in an attempt to find a solution to coerce France and Britian to respect the States' neutrality in their affairs, without having to go to war. Economic devastation resulted, and it had no effect regarding France and Britian. In attempts to prevent smuggling, Jefferson fired up the army and navy and declared areas along the Canadian border as being in a state of insurrection, contradicting ideals of individual liberty and opposition of a central government. :lol:

Anyways, yeah, these organizations are nothing but huge entanglements. :thumbdown:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: Redstorm]
    #7674194 - 11/24/07 01:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
In my hometown, there was a huge sugar factory. It stunk like something rotten all year round. I wouldn't be sad to see some other country take care of the whole sugar manufacturing sector.




I wouldn't be sad to see demand for sugar diminish near-entirely. :shrug:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7674199 - 11/24/07 01:18 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Interestingly enough, Thomas Jefferson once imposed an embargo on all foreign trade, in an attempt to find a solution to coerce France and Britian to respect the States' neutrality in their affairs, without having to go to war. Economic devastation resulted, and it had no effect regarding France and Britian. In attempts to prevent smuggling, Jefferson fired up the army and navy and declared areas along the Canadian border as being in a state of insurrection, contradicting ideals of individual liberty and opposition of a central government. :lol:



Yes, unfortunately there seems to have been a great discrepancy between the ideals that Jefferson put forth in the Revolution, and what he did as president.  I think he must have been rather embarrassed by his presidency, and I've heard that his grave does not list his presidency among his achievements.


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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7674201 - 11/24/07 01:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If I don't have sugar to put in my tea in the morning, I'll flip out. There'd be no reason for me to even live.


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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: afoaf]
    #7674204 - 11/24/07 01:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
I can see that removing fiat money eliminates the ability for a government
to participate in imperial conquest, but the problem is that moving to the
gold standard does not eliminate inflation.

There have been inflationary periods throughout the history of economics
both with and without a gold standard.




I don't know enough about the subject to address this, but I hope others do, because I'm very interested. :smile:

I think the main question regarding money is what the worth is based upon. I personally see gold as being as arbitrary as anything else you base it upon, but, clearly, the value our currency has now is diminshing because of our foreign policies. We've overextended ourselves and are conveying to other countries and institutions that we are weakened, which thus brings them to move towards other currencies, which really does weaken us.


--------------------
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I wouldn't fear
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Like being here
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Loving every breath of you

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: Libertarian: Ron Paul [Re: Redstorm]
    #7674205 - 11/24/07 01:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
If I don't have sugar to put in my tea in the morning, I'll flip out. There'd be no reason for me to even live.




Sugar in tea? :what:

I drink plum white tea. It doesn't need any additives. :levitate:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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