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mushroomplume
Stranger

Registered: 10/16/06
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Social Interaction
#7671390 - 11/23/07 05:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Do we socialize with people to meet our needs or theirs?
We compliment our friends, listen to them when they are upset, and offer them help when they need it. Is all of this done unconditionally or is it done hoping to receive something in return?
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Of course we receive something in return, otherwise we wouldn't do it. Now it might not be the same thing (what we get) for everybody, but there's always something, depending on what each of us is looking for.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Do we socialize with people to meet our needs or theirs?
We compliment our friends, listen to them when they are upset, and offer them help when they need it. Is all of this done unconditionally or is it done hoping to receive something in return?
I think it's natural to desire both.
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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sometimes when i'm happy.. or even when i'm sad.. i do things for people where i don't recieve anything at all except a smile or a thanks.
however, i like people to think good of me.. so maybe i receive that? but i also love to see people smile. i especially love cheering people up.
when i'm really happy i naturally do all sorts of stuff for people, because i feel like a champ.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Social Interaction [Re: igwna] 1
#7671926 - 11/23/07 06:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
a smile or a thanks.
however, i like people to think good of me.. so maybe i receive that?
because i feel like a champ.
There you have it.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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:P i kinda meant when i feel like a champ, i'm nice for no reason at all just because i'm already happy and when i'm happy i want people around me to be happy.
but still. your point is still made and makes sense. you're too smart.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
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Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Relationships are a mutual exchange. Giving endlessly without recieving the same sort of consideration in return isn't 'selfless,' it's fucked up.
Being kind for the sake of being kind is a great thing to do, but people do it because they believe it will come back to them. We enact what we want see more of. Like Sartre said, when we choose something, we choose it for the whole world.
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JoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Social Interaction [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7672742 - 11/23/07 10:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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You cannot give to someone, without recieving...the reception that preceeds the gift.
Love is always. Love is there. When its yours, you wont have it. When you play with it, it will present its gift to you.
-------------------- The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution. And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change. Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems. Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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daytripper23
?


Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
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On one level, everything is going to be an exchange of emotional energy between ourselves and others, so I suppose this might necessarily infer its duality. But if this might be interpreted as singular relationship, two sides of the same emotion, then it possibly is not.
Is there such thing as true selflessness? I think so.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Quote:
daytripper23 said:
Is there such thing as true selflessness?
I think not. Those who like to give and give and expect nothing in return usually find pleasure and satisfaction in giving, it makes them feel good about themselves, morally superior. Why do you want to believe that there is such a thing as true selflessness? Does this somehow make giving more meaningful? I think this attitude our culture carries is unhealthy, and it is the reason a lot of women tend to sacrafice themselves to thier partners and children, or why people give themselves to thier careers or a 'cause.' As if one can only feel truly good about oneself by denying oneself completely and make the lives of others more important.
Much better for each one of us to be completely self centred, as that self-love brings us towards one another honestly and openly. Only by being utterly self focused can one relate authentically to another, finding ourselves reflected in others, and give reciprocally and authentically.
"For others to interest me I must find in myself the energy for such an interest. What binds me to others must grow out of what binds me to the most exuberant and demanding part of my will to live; not the other way around. It is always myself that I am looking for in other people; my enrichment; my realization. Let everyone understand this and 'each for himself' taken to its ultimate conclusion will be transformed into 'all for each.' The freedom of one will be the freedom of all. A community which is not built on the demands of individuals and their dialectic can only reinforce the oppressive violence of Power. The Other in whom I do not find myself is nothing but a thing, and altruism leads me to the love of things, to the love of my isolation.... For myself, I recognize no equality except that which my will to live according to my desires recognizes in the will to live of others." - The Right to be Greedy: Theses on the Practical Necessity of Demanding Everything.
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igwna
The Cap'n


Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Social Interaction [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7673119 - 11/24/07 12:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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i believe there is selflessness..
you can do things just to be nice without even caring about what you get in return... its just a plus that whenver you do something good, you really always get something.
-------------------- I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.
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Great Scott
Trigger Lover


Registered: 05/05/03
Posts: 19,797
Loc: Control Grid
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Social Interaction [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7673241 - 11/24/07 01:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
Quote:
daytripper23 said:
Is there such thing as true selflessness?
I think not. Those who like to give and give and expect nothing in return usually find pleasure and satisfaction in giving, it makes them feel good about themselves, morally superior. Why do you want to believe that there is such a thing as true selflessness? Does this somehow make giving more meaningful? I think this attitude our culture carries is unhealthy, and it is the reason a lot of women tend to sacrafice themselves to thier partners and children, or why people give themselves to thier careers or a 'cause.' As if one can only feel truly good about oneself by denying oneself completely and make the lives of others more important.
Much better for each one of us to be completely self centred, as that self-love brings us towards one another honestly and openly. Only by being utterly self focused can one relate authentically to another, finding ourselves reflected in others, and give reciprocally and authentically.
"For others to interest me I must find in myself the energy for such an interest. What binds me to others must grow out of what binds me to the most exuberant and demanding part of my will to live; not the other way around. It is always myself that I am looking for in other people; my enrichment; my realization. Let everyone understand this and 'each for himself' taken to its ultimate conclusion will be transformed into 'all for each.' The freedom of one will be the freedom of all. A community which is not built on the demands of individuals and their dialectic can only reinforce the oppressive violence of Power. The Other in whom I do not find myself is nothing but a thing, and altruism leads me to the love of things, to the love of my isolation.... For myself, I recognize no equality except that which my will to live according to my desires recognizes in the will to live of others." - The Right to be Greedy: Theses on the Practical Necessity of Demanding Everything.
I think so. But it would require some faith maybe?
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Social Interaction [Re: igwna] 1
#7673253 - 11/24/07 01:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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No, selflessness is just an illusion. Everything we do, we do with our "selves"... Helping others just to be nice gives makes you feel good so you still get something in return.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Quote:
I think so. But it would require some faith maybe? 
What does faith have to do with it?
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Great Scott
Trigger Lover


Registered: 05/05/03
Posts: 19,797
Loc: Control Grid
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Ehh, nevermind...
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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--------------------
   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Merkin
neep.



Registered: 07/04/03
Posts: 27,537
Loc: Ass Flavoured Pie Factory
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If this was in another sense a question asking whether we're selfish creatures, then yes, yes we are. We are born selfish. The genes within us are selfish.
-------------------- Wheels of cheese wheeels of cheeeeese!!!
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Merkin
neep.



Registered: 07/04/03
Posts: 27,537
Loc: Ass Flavoured Pie Factory
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Re: Social Interaction [Re: Merkin]
#7673293 - 11/24/07 01:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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so next time you come screaming about how fucking self centered I am, or egocentric I am, remember what I said, cos I can't fucking help it alright?
-------------------- Wheels of cheese wheeels of cheeeeese!!!
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Social Interaction [Re: Merkin]
#7673309 - 11/24/07 01:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Being self-centred and caring for others are not mutually exclusive orientations. To requote the quote I already posted: "Let everyone understand this and 'each for himself' taken to its ultimate conclusion will be transformed into 'all for each.'"
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'


Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Social Interaction [Re: Merkin] 1
#7673329 - 11/24/07 02:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Merkin said: so next time you come screaming about how fucking self centered I am, or egocentric I am, remember what I said, cos I can't fucking help it alright?
There is a difference between egoism, and being an asshole. Egoism is inherently self-reflective, and assholery is inherently self-denying/avoidant. The asshole attempts to dominate and hoard because they feel powerless and afraid. The self-reflective egoist is willing to own up to thier shit and move past it, as it is, of course, in thier own interest to do so. The egoist is better able to have authentic relationships because they are more aware of themselves, thier desires, and their need to share and find themselves reflected in others. It is delightful to engage authentically.
When I say "egoist" I do not mean "egoTist" or Machiavellian.
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